AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => P.I. audio group => Topic started by: dBe on 8 Jul 2010, 04:27 am
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Power cables - 3 different price/performance points
An EMI trap for refrigerators, computers and other problem noise sources
A surge protector
A hum eliminator
Some component mechanical isolation components
Beyond these are there any "must have" thingamabobs you all would like to see?
Dave
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What's the timeframe on these?
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What's the timeframe on these?
Jason, it depends on which products people would like to see first. Cables are on their way. I'm waiting for connectors. The second unit will be the EMI Sink and third is either the surge protector or the hum suppressor.... I think.
I am open for suggestions. What looks good to you?
Dave
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Here is a suggestion I got from a supporter and my reply:
********************************************
From: porziob@aol.com
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as junk
Sent: Thu 7/08/10 3:22 AM
To: info@piaudiogroup.com
All you need for a full product line is a Bullshit Meter. Soldier on.
********************************************
From: DAVE and GAYLE ELLEDGE (dgelledges@msn.com)
Sent: Thu 7/08/10 8:32 AM
To: porziob@aol.com
Gee, thanks. Can I put your name on it?
Regards,
<><
Dave
********************************************
What do you all think: analog or LCD display?
:roll:
Dave
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Jason, it depends on which products people would like to see first. Cables are on their way. I'm waiting for connectors. The second unit will be the EMI Sink and third is either the surge protector or the hum suppressor.... I think.
I am open for suggestions. What looks good to you?
Dave
You know my feelings on cables...
Look forward to hearing more about the EMI sink.
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Dave,
I am very interested in an EMI trap for my refrigerator. It keeps getting out and I can't catch it... :dunno:
But seriously... I am interested. My Frig has to be throwing all sorts of junk back on my lines and it seem like the damn thing is running all the time.
Darrell
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Power cables - 3 different price/performance points
Dave
Dave, which end of this scale are we playing on with the PC's we're doing?
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Dave,
I'd be interested in an EMI trap for refrigerators if it is a small form factor (not much space behind my fridge). Also, for the computer if it works fine with a battery backup unit (have tried other filters and they didn't do anything).
Still diggin' the Majik. Settling in very nicely.
Phil
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Dave,
I am very interested in an EMI trap for my refrigerator. It keeps getting out and I can't catch it... :dunno:
But seriously... I am interested. My Frig has to be throwing all sorts of junk back on my lines and it seem like the damn thing is running all the time.
Darrell
They all seem to be running all of the time. It is summer, eh? 8)
You'll be one of the first to see one. Proximity is a good thing except when it comes to explosives.
Dave
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Dave, which end of this scale are we playing on with the PC's we're doing?
Art, pretty much at the top, for now. I've just about got the mids figured out without loosing the top or botom. Things are very BIG sounding right now. You should get 'em back next week.
I do have plans for a no holds barred cable, but that is a long ways off.
Dave
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Dave,
I'd be interested in an EMI trap for refrigerators if it is a small form factor (not much space behind my fridge). Also, for the computer if it works fine with a battery backup unit (have tried other filters and they didn't do anything).
Still diggin' the Majik. Settling in very nicely.
Phil
Great, Phil. I'm glad to hear it is working for you.
What I am working on is a small baox with a single outlet on the end with a 4' power cord with a right angle plug on the other. The prototype is 2.5" x 2.5" x 4" long. It fits inside my refrigerator on the bottom, next to the compressor with the standard power cord bundled and tie wrapped inside, too. Nice and tidy. It may get a little bit bigger, though. I'm just about there. I'm still chewing on the pricepoint.
Dave
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Dave,
Could you get a bit technical on why you are targeting a fridge vs other house hold appliances? I'm a bit of a novice on this electrical stuff.
Thanks,
Mike
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Dave,
Could you get a bit technical on why you are targeting a fridge vs other house hold appliances? I'm a bit of a novice on this electrical stuff.
Thanks,
Mike
Sure. It is a heavy load that rides only on one phase of the AC power (which is a good thing) that is constantly cycling on and off with switching transients and EMI (primarily inductive) pulses coming from the motor driving the compressor. This is a very bad thing.
Other offenders are computers, SCR dimmers for incandescent lighting, flourescent lighting, microwaves, etc. The 'fridge is something that every home has and can't be turned off (reasonably speaking) when we are listening. Suppose you turned the refrigerator off for a listening session and forgot to turn it back on. :o
Dave
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Hi Dave
Re: refrigerator noise.
Back in the 80's we were haveing trouble with a robotic gamma counter at the lab where I worked. It would crash at seemingly random intervals. We checked the machine circuitry and found it all seemed fine. Installed a power monitor and found huge spikes on the AC that matched up with the crashes. We installed an emi filter on the counter. Still had failures. We finally identified the source as a refrigerator. Our plant maintenance people refused to look at the fridge as to them it was working OK. I installed an EMI filter in the fridge and problem solved. So, sometimes it is much better to address the problem at the source!
Brian
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Power cables - 3 different price/performance points
An EMI trap for refrigerators, computers and other problem noise sources
A surge protector
A hum eliminator
Some component mechanical isolation components
Beyond these are there any "must have" thingamabobs you all would like to see?
Dave
Dave
Whole House Surge Suppressors
Perhaps you could do some research on what is already out there and become a dealer for what you feel is an effective solution. These have to be installed by an electrician but when you ask an electrician to supply one you don't know what you are getting. To me this is a good first line of defense for catastrophic surges like near lightning strikes.
The other issue to me is the absolutely ridiculous prices of some of the cables out there. $2000 for a power cord! Please try to keep your pricing reasonable.
Regards
Brian
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Art, pretty much at the top, for now. I've just about got the mids figured out without loosing the top or botom. Things are very BIG sounding right now. You should get 'em back next week.
I do have plans for a no holds barred cable, but that is a long ways off.
Dave
Cool, looking forward to hearing them when you have them satisfactory to your ears....AND I'll gladly guinea pig with you on the no holds barred whenever you decide to get down to it! :thumb:
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Dave
Whole House Surge Suppressors
Perhaps you could do some research on what is already out there and become a dealer for what you feel is an effective solution. These have to be installed by an electrician but when you ask an electrician to supply one you don't know what you are getting. To me this is a good first line of defense for catastrophic surges like near lightning strikes.
The other issue to me is the absolutely ridiculous prices of some of the cables out there. $2000 for a power cord! Please try to keep your pricing reasonable.
Regards
Brian
Brian, there is so much out there for surge protection in whole house surge protection that I don't feel the necessity to become a dealer for these units. Especially being a stocking dealer - I just don't have the inkling or the money to do so. As a small business man in a crappy economy (not my particular hope) I am very conservative.
Here is what I am now using:
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Electrical/Products/ResidentialProducts/SurgeTrap/Stage1SurgeProtection/ACPowerSurgeProtection/index.htm
These are sacrificial units that are very quiet electrically. Unlike cheap point of use units with undersized MOVs, these use banks of very high quality and capacity units with noise suppression built into them.
My power cables will top out < $700.00 for the premium cable. Not the no holds barred one that will cost what it costs on special order only. Entry level pricing is $99.00 with Wattgate connectors.
Dave
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Cool, looking forward to hearing them when you have them satisfactory to your ears....AND I'll gladly guinea pig with you on the no holds barred whenever you decide to get down to it! :thumb:
Art, you will be one of the first to know!
:thumb:
Dave
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Here is what I am now using:
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Electrical/Products/ResidentialProducts/SurgeTrap/Stage1SurgeProtection/ACPowerSurgeProtection/index.htm
These are sacrificial units that are very quiet electrically. Unlike cheap point of use units with undersized MOVs, these use banks of very high quality and capacity units with noise suppression built into them.
Dave
A wise choice!! :wink:
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Brian, there is so much out there for surge protection in whole house surge protection that I don't feel the necessity to become a dealer for these units. Especially being a stocking dealer - I just don't have the inkling or the money to do so. As a small business man in a crappy economy (not my particular hope) I am very conservative.
Here is what I am now using:
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Markets/Electrical/Products/ResidentialProducts/SurgeTrap/Stage1SurgeProtection/ACPowerSurgeProtection/index.htm
These are sacrificial units that are very quiet electrically. Unlike cheap point of use units with undersized MOVs, these use banks of very high quality and capacity units with noise suppression built into them.
My power cables will top out < $700.00 for the premium cable. Not the no holds barred one that will cost what it costs on special order only. Entry level pricing is $99.00 with Wattgate connectors.
Dave
Dave would it be possible to give your advise between these two products? Is the amount of filtering worth mentioning or paying extra for? Thanks........
http://www.zerosurge.com/productspecs/ff1_20w.pdf
http://www.zerosurge.com/commercialindustrial.cfm
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Dave,
Does the whole house surge protector you mentioned require the use of a breaker? I believe that is how mine (no-name brand) is connected. Sorry for the simple question: don't know nothin' about this electrical stuff.
The fridge filter sounds promising.
Phil
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Art, you will be one of the first to know!
:thumb:
Dave
I thought I was? :duh: Guess I"m being replaced...see what happens when you leave for a little bit? REPLACED! :bawl:
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I thought I was? :duh: Guess I"m being replaced...see what happens when you leave for a little bit? REPLACED! :bawl:
If it eases the hurt...he calls me Jason all the time.... :o
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Great, Phil. I'm glad to hear it is working for you.
What I am working on is a small baox with a single outlet on the end with a 4' power cord with a right angle plug on the other. The prototype is 2.5" x 2.5" x 4" long. It fits inside my refrigerator on the bottom, next to the compressor with the standard power cord bundled and tie wrapped inside, too. Nice and tidy. It may get a little bit bigger, though. I'm just about there. I'm still chewing on the pricepoint.
Dave
Hi Dave,
If one is using a dedicated line for the AV system, will refrigerator line noise still be an issue and will the EMI trap work best for those without dedicated lines? Thanks.
Glenn
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If it eases the hurt...he calls me Jason all the time.... :o
and that's a good thing?
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I thought I was? :duh: Guess I"m being replaced...see what happens when you leave for a little bit? REPLACED! :bawl:
Dude, I said 'one of the first'!!! :wink:
It's all good.
Ta,
Dave
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Hi Dave,
If one is using a dedicated line for the AV system, will refrigerator line noise still be an issue and will the EMI trap work best for those without dedicated lines? Thanks.
Glenn
Glenn, Having a dedicated line is the best thing a person can do to get on the road to musical Shangri-La. It does only isolate the line back to the panel and uses inherent self inductance and capacitance to effect any noise rejection. The refrigerator noise will always be present in the neutral of all circuits, even if it is on the opposite phase at the panel. Consider that neutral and ground are "essentially" the same thing and you can see how this is still a problem.
As far as working best? Uhm, it may be more noticeable on a shared line, but will work well for any application.
HTH
Dave