[jimdgoulding]

Suggest naming them The Iconoclast's after my demeanor last night.  All the best, D.

[Danny Richie]

Jason,

If you are just going to nit pick over whether something sound be called custom or not and steer the thread off topic with nonsense then please don't waste our time.

I have no problem removing a post as you can see.

[jtwrace]

If you are just going to nit pick over whether something sound be called custom or not and steer the thread off topic with nonsense then please don't waste our time.

Oh, didn't realize asking a question was wasting your time.  Sorry.

BTW-here is one of the most common manufactures of autoclaves.

http://www.americanautoclave.com/index.htm

[jn316]

I am not sure including 100,000$ speakers in a circle mostly dedicated to diy kits is the best idea.  You don't want to alienate your base.   Most people seem to have to save up before getting a 500$ kit...   ymmv

Hasn't alienated me one bit. I can't wait for Danny's new kits using the new drivers he just got in. 

[Danny Richie]

Oh, didn't realize asking a question was wasting your time.  Sorry.

BTW-here is one of the most common manufactures of autoclaves.

http://www.americanautoclave.com/index.htm

Jason, you weren't asking a question you were trying to correct me (at least in your eyes) for calling it a "custom" autoclave. And you are being argumentative over it. Arguing over whether or not something can be called "custom" is a complete waste of time. It is not worth arguing over. Please get over it.

[Rclark]

With maybe $10,000 in drivers in these, the other $90,000 must include the autoclave!

Not to continue with that discussion, but Danny, since we're talking price, and you aren't talking to any customers for these speakers here, obviously, can you explain the $100,000 and $159,000 pricetags? I understand you always charge a fair price, can you break down the price of these? You say the margins are still slim, so curious. It's hard to not see 10k cost and 90k profit like Cab noted.

[jtwrace]

It is not worth arguing over. Please get over it.

I'm not arguing. 

[srb]

Oh, didn't realize asking a question was wasting your time.  Sorry.

To be perfectly honest Jason, it's kind of a waste of forum members time also.
 
It does seem like nitpicking, and if Danny says they used a custom autoclave, so be it, whether the reason was to have one the exact size needed to fit the particular parts and no larger, or a custom built one might save money over a commercial offering.
 
It also seems like you are questioning Danny's truth or accuracy in many GR Research topics, even though you always maintain that you are simply asking questions.  Perhaps you're not singling out Danny, but I'm just saying many of these back and forth exchanges makes him appear as a target.
 
I apologize if my preception of this in error, but that's the feeling I get.
 
Steve
 
 

[jtwrace]

To be perfectly honest Jason, it's kind of a waste of forum members time also.
 
It does seem like nitpicking, and if Danny says they used a custom autoclave, so be it, whether the reason was to have one the exact size needed to fit the particular parts and no larger, or a custom built one might save money over a commercial offering.
 
It also seems like you are questioning Danny's truth or accuracy in many GR Research topics, even though you always maintain that you are simply asking questions.  Perhaps you're not singling out Danny, but I'm just saying many of these back and forth exchanges makes him appear as a target.
 
I apologize if my preception of this in error, but that's the feeling I get.
 
Steve

Thanks for your concern.   

[SoCalWJS]

Danny - it will be interesting to watch this as the Serenity line develops and (hopefully) gains a reputation as being among the very finest speakers made. Hopefully, much is learned along the way which can be shared to educate the enthusiasts among us and perhaps show up in GR Reasearch kits in the future (which would not be in direct competition with Serenity).

I shouldn't do this, but I will....

If you find that specialized equipment makes for a better end result, why would anybody question it in this manner. If it does make for a better end result, then the speaker becomes not among the best, but THE best, at a given price point. The market recognizes that it is better and it sells and you make a profit. If it turns out not to distinguish itself, it doesn't sell as well and it is "just another speaker" in a given price range, and the potential for profit goes down.

The manufacturer and designer work together to see what philosophy they want to use in their approach, investing their own money and take the risks.

That's why other manufacturor's invest in exotic materials for their drivers (i.e. Diamonds and Berillyium)(which are of questionable value, but when you are trying for that last fraction of improvement to distinguish yourself.......... ) or other "special" designs.

Best of luck Danny! If I ever hit the lottery, I know that these would be among the speakers I would consider for my dream home.

[Danny Richie]

Not to continue with that discussion, but Danny, since we're talking price, and you aren't talking to any customers for these speakers here, obviously, can you explain the $100,000 and $159,000 pricetags? I understand you always charge a fair price, can you break down the price of these? You say the margins are still slim, so curious. It's hard to not see 10k cost and 90k profit like Cab noted.

Let's just look at one aspect mentioned. Digital crossovers for a product at this level.

Here is the quality level we are looking for: http://www.lightharmonic.com/  Their latest DAC is $20,000. Is it the very best cost no object DAC to exist right now? It could be. And to go that extra mile across the board cost money.

And that is just a two channel DAC. We need six channels out and digital correct for each of them. And it has to be built into a pre-amp. So in this case the customer can use a pair of two channel amps to drive the speakers of their choice. The servo amps are built into the speakers.

If (big if) that can be built for under $20,000 (it may not) then that alone will pass $40,000 onto the retail price. If it were sold through traditional stores and marketed through the traditional sense then that would add $80,000 to $100,000 to the retail price. Fortunately for the consumer these are being sold direct.

Adds up fast huh?

We'll see where the numbers fall as we get further into it. But for sure the cost is way past $10,000 and the margin is way less than $90,000.

[jtwrace]

And that is just a two channel DAC. We need six channels out and digital correct for each of them. And it has to be built into a pre-amp. So in this case the customer can use a pair of two channel amps to drive the speakers of their choice. The servo amps are built into the speakers.

This is pretty interesting.  http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/215379-dsp-xover-project-part-2-a-31.html#post3214766

Maybe he could make a true custom GR unit.  The unit above will be $280.  Also have the Hypex unit coming.

[HAL]

The digital crossover that I have as a prototype has over 10 times the throughput of that device.  It is also full floating point math, not fixed point.  This will be needed for one of the techniques that I will be working with and will not be discussed until ready.

Everything is done in the digital domain, including volume control.  The processing will be 32bit/192KHz internally to the unit.

The crossover will have USB async input to be driven directly from a computer audio system and A/D input for analog sources.

The D/A's will feed PA's for each array or possibly for each driver.  As Danny has mentioned the servo amps are custom already.

These are things that will be tried to see what works for a product at this level. 

[jtwrace]

The digital crossover that I have as a prototype has over 10 times the throughput of that device.  It is also full floating point math, not fixed point.  This will be needed for one of the techniques that I will be working with and will not be discussed until ready.

Everything is done in the digital domain, including volume control.  The processing will be 32bit/192KHz internally to the unit.

The crossover will have USB async input to be driven directly from a computer audio system and A/D input for analog sources.

The D/A's will feed PA's for each array or possibly for each driver.  As Danny has mentioned the servo amps are custom already.

These are things that will be tried to see what works for a product at this level.

Seems as though the best (Light Harmonic) above has already been bested!  Look forward to all the details. 

[Danny Richie]

It's funny to me how most people look at a DAC and think it is all about the specs, chips, and numbers. It's almost like judging a cars performance by looking to see how far the speedometer goes.

[HAL]

Ok, then this one will go to "Plaid".   Let's see who gets that one!

[dmatt]

May the Schwartz be with you, HAL

[srb]

I'm no longer interested in speakers that are "fast" but ones that are "ludicrously fast".
 
Steve

[poseidonsvoice]

I'm no longer interested in speakers that are "fast" but ones that are "ludicrously fast".
 
Steve

Indeed, and if they can reach 88mph we can all go back in time

Anand.

[persisting1]

Not sure why people are bashing someone for designing a product that has a market.