[Sigfreed]

I currently am running the Eastern Electric Minimax(modded) with NOS tubes and think it sounds wonderful but was wondering if i could achieve an even better presentation using one of the 6SN7 based tubed units in this price range? My system is very revealing i feel and i was wondering if this type of preamp would give me an even larger soundstage and better sonics overall? I currently have the George Wright WPA 3.5 SET amps running in my system(also use RWA Sig 30 at times as of late).The two preamps that i was looking at but have not heard in my system are the Wright WLA 12A or the linestage offering from Mapletree, which i have read some great things about from AudioCircle posters. Just curious if you guys can help direct me in this area as the EE Minimax has been my first tubed preamp(preamp for that matter) that i have listened to in my system. Thanks !

[TONEPUB]

hey there, I have a great Pacific Creek 300B integrated that I'd be happy
to give you a great deal on. I was just looking to get about 750 for the
whole thing..

PM if interested

thanks!

[Sigfreed]

Thanks for the offer Tonepub but i am just looking for a solid tube preamp at this point.

[Sigfreed]

Thanks Tvad4. Well in my system the EE Minimax is plenty quiet for me.Noise is not an issue at all for me.Just asking if i can get a better sound out of my system with the 6SN7 tubed based preamps in a close price range opposed to the Minimax that i am currently using. Yeah,the only noise i am detecting is coming from the amps and not the preamp.I don't turn my preamp past 12 ever however due to the efficiency of my speakers.

[Sigfreed]

Tvad i have my preamp turned off and that is how i can hear the noise from the amps.Both amps have their own signature slight noise.The Wright SET has the slight hum whole the Red Wine Audio Sig 30 has a slight, what i would describe as, hiss.When i turn the preamp on there is no increased noise in my system even when i turn the volume knob up to my loudest listening position. Noise is not an issue for me.I was just wondering about any great 6SN7 preamps people would think may surpass what i am currently using in this budget. I actually find the Minimax very quiet in my system. Which i guess is saying alot since i have very sensitive speakers. Maybe the mod that was done to this preamp had something to do with that.I do not know as i have never heard the unmodded version.

[Sigfreed]

Tvad, this friend wouldn't by chance be Howard would it? That system sounds mighty familiar and if so he is the one that guided me towards the Wright 3.5's.

[jrebman]

Sigfreed,

When was your EE modded?  If fairly recently, you can use a 12FQ7 in the buffer position, which is said to have a sonic signature similar to the 6SN7.  They aren't easy to come by, especially audio grade, but I have an extra Phillips/ECG one I could sell you if you were interested.


-- Jim

[James Romeyn]

I believe every current Primare component professionally reviewed gets pure raves.  You might think not to try ss, but I INSIST you try the Primare $2k preamp.  I've heard most of the best preamps & have now what appears to be among the best analog pres in both pure performance & totally unique features.  But I digress...I've owned & heard the Modwright 9.0 & the Mapletree & auditioned the $17k VTL 17.5 or whatever it's called & the brand new Modwright 36.5. 

BTW, every Primare piece I've heard (most or all) are unbeatable at their prices (maybe equal or different, but not better if well-mated.)  I may still get the moderately new Primare $4500 bufo power amp.  The designer's a genius IMO.

I too have pre-conceived notions about what I like so I don't blame you.  But I generally understand my biases are just biases, & that if you lock out other options permanently, you miss or may miss a lot of options.  You can get the Primare used for great prices.  I have no idea why anyone would sell except to move up to cost no object...

Even the Modwright, known as the best affordable tube preamp, has ss output buffers, as does the allegedly world class VTL 17.5 (so silicone must have some good uses...)

At 103 dB SENSITIVITY (not "efficiency", which is measured in percent of electrical power converted into acoustic power) your number one concern for good performance is S/N, all else is second because your speakers are generating about 15 dB more noise vs. an average audiophile box.  You ain't going to overcome 15 dB of noise w/ performance improvements in any other parameter.

[Sigfreed]

jrebman--My Minimax is a little over a year old now so i do not know if it is the mod that can utilize the tube that you menttion? I did receive directly from Bill at Morningstar as the upgrade that he was selling at that time. So do you think i have the latest version then that can use this tube? thanks!

RibbonSpeakers.net- Thanks for mentioning this preamp and i will do some research into them for sure. Also, thank you for taking the time to educate me on some things that i certainly am not familiar with. Especially that S/N is one of the primary things i should be taking into concideration when looking into an ideal preamp for my system which has high sensitivity speakers. Ok i am going to read up on that pre now. I love this sport!   

[dado5]

A heavily choked version of Jack Elano's ultrapath pre amp would be a very quiet 6SN7 choice and fall well within your price range. It's also low gain - an added benefit noise-wise for your speakers.  Ron Welborne sells a kit version that's battery powered (not a 6SN7 though).

I built a headphone amp based on the same circuit (ECC99 instead of 6SN7 to better match the impedence of the phones).  I added an additional CLC (100u - 20H - 100u) stage in the power supply.  It is completely silent with the super sensitive Grado phones (volume wide open with no input signal-remember the speakers are directly on the ear!). My solid state receiver jack is noisy in comparison. 

Parts will run between $400 & $500, so you could even hire someone (guitar tech, HAM dude, etc.) to put it together and still be under your price. Ron's kit is right at your price point (including the chassis).

http://www.electra-print.com/ultrapath.php

http://www.welbornelabs.com/ultra.htm

[James Romeyn]

If the preamp mentioned above sounds anything like the JE tube transformer-coupled preamp my friend built for way cheap, it's fantastic, one of the best I've heard, & very quiet.

I'm definitely under the impression right now that the only reason transformer-coupled-output is not considered the SOTA for tube preamps is a sum total one reason: C-O-S-T.  It obviously requires two ultra-HQ transformers.  Such are rare & expensive; JE knows how to build them.

Two very high-value features of such architecture are balanced/single-ended output & absolutely totally 100% transparent & distortion-free polarity inversion (the transformer has balanced outputs, invert the outputs to invert the polarity w/ NO extra gain or other stage, SE SS requires an extra gain stage to invert the signal).

[reddmadder]

Hi,
Do you really "need' a pre?
The only reason I ask is that I recently auditioned Cy Brenneman's Stereo 30 amp(with vol.control) at his home in CA.
 Cy was running his own 100db horns with additional massive bass enclosures.
 The sound was outstanding!
The TT was an Oracle w/Cy's pre/phono/amp.
 He played some vinyl for me and it was THE best I've heard ,beating John Rutin's Vandersteen/Cary set-up at his shop,Audio Connection, to give you a reference.
                R
Take a look at his gear...it's much better looking in person.
http://home.earthlink.net/~cybrenneman/audio/id1.html

[reddmadder]

Hi,
Yes he was using a pre (about 3db of gain)with the TT.
But the amp  has a vol. control and was designed to be used without a preamp.
Sounds terrific without the pre. He played it with a Sony cdp, didn't seem like a very high end player, but it got the job done.
I've been running S.E.T for the past 5 years and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between his PP amp and my S.E.T amps.
Let me restate that ,I'd need a few days/weeks to really find the differences BUT basically it did have that mid-range magic.
   R

[jrebman]

jrebman--My Minimax is a little over a year old now so i do not know if it is the mod that can utilize the tube that you menttion? I did receive directly from Bill at Morningstar as the upgrade that he was selling at that time. So do you think i have the latest version then that can use this tube? thanks!

Sigfreed,

My guess would be no, but the only way to know for sure is to ask Bill.

After I wrote this last night, I also thought either the Mapletree 2A SE or the Ultra 4 could be a nice choice.  Haven't heard one myself, but will probably get one later this year for my headphone rig.

-- Jim

[Sigfreed]

dado5- thanks so much for those suggestions. I will be investigating those kits !

Has anyone any experience with these preamps that dado5 is mentioning up against a preamp such as the Wright WLA 12A? I know i love my amps from Wright(3.5's) and was just tempted to get a used 12A to match up with it. If you guys think i can find an even better one at this price point i would love to hear about it and also would love to know if you think the preamps you are suggesting (dado5) are equal to or better then this Wright pre if you have ever heard the Wright?

reddmadder- i was going passive for about a year until i tried out the Minimax.I was using EVS ultimate nude attenuators which were rca direct coupled to my Wright amps.Personally i felt it sounded a bit sterile although completely revealing.The added body i gain with the active tube pre is welcome in my system.Don't think i will be going back to passive anytime soon but won't count anything out.Just with the components i am using i feel i have found a good set up.In fact i was listening to my system heavily last night and it sounds great but i was really wondering if that 6SN7 tube in the preamp position may bring some more magic to my ears.I know how much the sound changes when i swap out different 6SN7 tubes in my Wright amps. The sonic change is pretty dramatic. Currently running Brimar Black Glass 6SN7's there and they sound fantastic. So that is what has me so curious about these 6SN7 tube based preamps i am seeing as opposed to the Minimax i currently own.

jrebman-thanks jim! i will give him a call and enquire sometime soon about that and get his take on that tube as well.

[reddmadder]

Hi,
 I've owned the Wright Pre line stage and it was a good match to my Wright mono 8's.But I have to add that for me it was a challenge to get a 6sn7 that wasn't microphonic.The preamp is extremely sensitive to microphonic tubes,just taping the unit would give me pops on my speakers,and that was with tubes that were tested low in microphonics.
 I've also tried the Mapleshade line stage and although I found it very warm and enjoyable,ultimately it was a bit too rolled off in the highs...It dampened the dynamics of the music for me in the long run BUT that's just my impression.I know many find it to be one of the best bang for the buck pre's.
            R

[PaulFolbrecht]

Re: Microphonic  6SN7s - it is a problem.  The stock EH 6SN7s I got with my Supratek were not microphonic, and the pair of NOS Popes that Kevin Deal sold me have been excellent as well.  The latter have been going strong with daily use for six months now and hopefully will last years.  They were $300 but well worth it overall (big improvement in treble refinement).  A couple of other pairs of much cheaper NOS - RCA - did have problems.

[Danny Richie]

I don't know what your budget is, but I only know of one pre-amp that is for this application. The Dodd Audio, battery powered tube pre-amp is dead quiet and has the lowest distortion and noise floor of any pre-amp that I have ever heard. It is also the best I have ever heard regardless of price.

See info here: http://www.doddaudio.biz/web/product_view.html?product=1