AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => VMPS Speakers => Topic started by: Regalma on 23 Sep 2019, 07:44 pm
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Just discovered that all four of the 6.5" downward firing passive radiators in my RM-30 speakers are shot. The cloth edging is torn. Has anyone had these repaired or repaired them their selves. Any other suggestions.
Thanks,
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You could have the surrounds replaced or you can make it better an upgrade to the Series II.
The down firing passives, 2 per speaker, are removed and the ports are sealed. If you have the powered side firing woofer it’s replaced with the same size passive radiator. You can also upgrade the front firing woofs.
Much better player. I did this a few years ago and documented the process with the steps and pics.
Here’s the link
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137131.0
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I originally passed this upgrade to my chagrin. Those are an impressive set of instructions.
Where do you get the 10" passive radiators. I have the active speakers in my set. I have OXOs rather than internal crossovers. I assume the same modifications apply.
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Have you checked with John Casler?
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These look like them
https://meniscusaudio.com/product/css-apr10/
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I originally passed this upgrade to my chagrin. Those are an impressive set of instructions.
Where do you get the 10" passive radiators. I have the active speakers in my set. I have OXOs rather than internal crossovers. I assume the same modifications apply.
There was additional capacitance added to the standard internal crossover, no idea what is needed for external digital one, if anything.
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MISCO is the company providing the 6.5" woofers used in the front firing Series II RM 30. Model # LLC62W-8A
I looked for it on the website and did not find an exact match. The website indicates they will build models now in the product archive. Call them and see what they can do.
https://www.miscospeakers.com/support/oem-products-archive
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Just discovered that all four of the 6.5" downward firing passive radiators in my RM-30 speakers are shot. The cloth edging is torn. Has anyone had these repaired or repaired them their selves. Any other suggestions.
Thanks,
How did you discover this? Was there some sonic degradation or did you just have a look?
I have RM30Ms from 2006 and can't see or feel any degradation to any of the drivers.
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How did you discover this? Was there some sonic degradation or did you just have a look?
I have RM30Ms from 2006 and can't see or feel any degradation to any of the drivers.
Mine started chuffing with low frequency material. There is no mistaking the sound.
You can also use your finger around the surround, gently feeling for an opening.
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I was experimenting with adding/subtracting mortite. A one point while they were playing I put my hand in to check on how much mortite I had on one of the passives and felt all kinds of air moving. From there I figured out that the passives edges had fallen apart. The interesting thing was after a recent source upgrade I still was not getting the sound I wanted. I removed a lot of mortite and wow, what an improvement. I hadn't touched the dampening for years prior to that. Not sure what if any relationship there is. I have blocked the bottom ports on the speakers as a simple way to cancel the passives, or lack of passives. The sound is still great. Though last night during a very loud blast of bass during a movie one of the blocks literally came flying off the speaker. That was a fitting end to a scheme showing an exploding planet.
Still trying to decide whether to do the upgrade or replace/repair the passives. Either way involves some serious work given the weight and size of the speakers.
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I was experimenting with adding/subtracting mortite. A one point while they were playing I put my hand in to check on how much mortite I had on one of the passives and felt all kinds of air moving. From there I figured out that the passives edges had fallen apart. The interesting thing was after a recent source upgrade I still was not getting the sound I wanted. I removed a lot of mortite and wow, what an improvement. I hadn't touched the dampening for years prior to that. Not sure what if any relationship there is. I have blocked the bottom ports on the speakers as a simple way to cancel the passives, or lack of passives. The sound is still great. Though last night during a very loud blast of bass during a movie one of the blocks literally came flying off the speaker. That was a fitting end to a scheme showing an exploding planet.
Still trying to decide whether to do the upgrade or replace/repair the passives. Either way involves some serious work given the weight and size of the speakers.
Repairing them would mean removing the base and dismounting the passives with a screwdriver or phillips attachment to a ratchet wrench (safer). It's not that big a deal. Then sending them to a speaker repair expert. Yes, the Series II upgrade is more involved but improves the sound.
See if you can still get the 10" passive radiators and mega woofers. If you can't, just get the surrounds replaced on the down-firing passives.
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I understand the 10" passive radiator but what are the mega woofers?
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Repairing them would mean removing the base and dismounting the passives with a screwdriver or phillips attachment to a ratchet wrench (safer). It's not that big a deal. Then sending them to a speaker repair expert. Yes, the Series II upgrade is more involved but improves the sound.
See if you can still get the 10" passive radiators and mega woofers. If you can't, just get the surrounds replaced on the down-firing passives.
You could redo the surrounds yourself. It's not that difficult. PRs are easier than drivers - you can't muck up the voice coil alignment.
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I understand the 10" passive radiator but what are the mega woofers?
The Mega Woofers were woven carbon fibre woofers, similar to the standard woofers. But, the Mega had dual stacked magnets, for greater power handling and excursion, plus deeper bass response. Mega Woofers played deep enough to where you really didn't need the side firing 10" woofer. So, the side woofer was replaced by a 10" passive radiator, for better tuning of the Mega's. The CSS passive, at Menicus, is the correct passive to use in the mod. Just don't forget to tune it after installation.
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I believe this spare set, that I have, are Mega's.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199286)
Stacked magnets.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199287)
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A bigger view of the stacked magnets (I think).
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199288)
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Are you interested in selling your spare set?
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call MISCO in Minneapolis and ask if they can still supply the Megawoofer, part # LLC62W-8A
It's discontinued but may have some "in the back" somewhere.
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I am consulting with Misco now. they do not have the speakers but can build them, with very long lead time. Don't have price yet. The LL part number is for the 40 oz magnet version. The 28 oz version is MC62W-8A. Will let you know what the 28oz will cost.
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https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=19371
Here are the specifications and pictures of both drivers, but you really want the mega woofers. Good luck Zak
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What do you mean by the Mega Woofer. Is it one of these two? I understand that Brian specified the 28 oz magnet version.
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You will need to change the 4 driver if you change from the 28 oz to the 40 oz. You will cover the 4 holes where the 6.5 passives ( bottom of speaker ) add the 10” passive to the side. Zak
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I am completely confused. I thought that both the 28oz and 40 oz were upgrades from the original.
What did my speakers come with?
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Brian produced RM 30 with the 28oz woofers , Maybe a year or two before the 40oz woofers became available. He then offered the 40oz woofers to RM 30 owners as an upgrade.
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I am completely confused. I thought that both the 28oz and 40 oz were upgrades from the original.
What did my speakers come with?
You likely have 28oz magnets in your 6.5" woofers. There were some improvements made to them over the years, of memory serves.
The Megawoofers have 40oz magnets and are a featured part of the Series 2 upgrade. They are your play at Misco.
You can keep your current woofers installed until you get the new ones. I did this as I was not certain I would upgrade the woofers. I'm glad I did.
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Regalma, on your speakers what do you phase plugs look like, wood or aluminum, that will determine what speakers you have. Wood phase plug standard woofers ( 28oz). aluminum phase plug ( 40oz ) woofers.
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Mine are the wooden ones. I have asked Misco for a quote on the 40 oz magnet speakers. Will post here once I get it.
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Mine are the wooden ones. I have asked Misco for a quote on the 40 oz magnet speakers. Will post here once I get it.
If you get them, pick up a couple spares for "just in case".
If there is a break for quantity purchase, see if there is interest here for a group order.
Set a deadline for orders at MISCO with a specific CSR, mentioning this forum. Might get some $$ off.
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First, thanks Zak for all your help.
Misco is checking on inventory. He thinks that they still have 8 voice coils and plenty of yokes. He is not sure since they have moved since the last time they built them.
So maybe someone else can go together with me. That should reduce the per unit cost. Will you know when I find out more, especially price and lead timel.
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Regalma What did you do I believe that my RM-30's have the same problem -- I did a sweep to set up a surround system and the bass sounded like a mootor starting -- I couldn't really feel anything but I am sure that is the problem-
Not sure I want to do the series 2 upgrade -- I have the external OXO
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I did the upgrade. Not sure it's an improvement. Easiest thing is to find someone who can recone the passives.
BTW i am selling my upgraded RM30s.
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Helpful information.
With the 28 ou. magnets, the phase plugs are blunt. On the 40 ou. magnets, the phase plugs are bullet shaped.
I've replaced the 28 with the 40 ou. magnet woofers and Brian said there is no difference in the sound. However, there is a difference in the 40 ou. will not get overdriven like the 28 can--the 28 makes a loud blat sound. Not good for the longevity of the woofer. After switching to the stronger magnet, I never had that problem. I listen to several great bass players such as Stanley Clarke, Victor Wooten, Jaco Pastorius, Marcus miller, Brian Bromberg, etc. They will definitely excite the 28 ou. woofers into overload at times.
I've also done the MK II upgrade to the 10" passive on the bottom side of the cabinet and plugging the holes of the old passives after removing them. It is a tedious, and time consuming job but the quality and power of the end result is easily worth the trouble. I no longer have the 30s but have a very fine set of 40s that I love.
Bob
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I reached in and in the back radiator the surround has spots where it is definitely gone and all of them have soft spots that may be tears. The woofers have bullet shaped phase plugs that feel like they are aluminum so I believe that I have the 40 oz woofers. In either case I have a pair of subs so bass shouldn't be a problem. So it looks like just pulling out the old 10 inch and putting in the passive 10 inch - Going to order them now.
With the external crossover it looks like it is looks like it is just adding a capacitor - I just have to figure out where
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With the external crossover it looks like it is looks like it is just adding a capacitor - I just have to figure out where
Right here, one side of capacitor goes to + terminal and other side has red wire going to L pad. With external crossover should be a lot easier. You may consider choosing a fairly high tolerance 10uF capacitor to keep everything matched up. Here is a schematic showing difference between RM-30M and Series II.
If you want to keep as RM30M, send me a PM as I have four passive 6" in perfect condition. They came out of my RM-30 when I went to Series II. That said, IMO the series II conversion was an improvement; less bass power, but more controlled.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212394)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=212395)