AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Home Theater and Video => Topic started by: Eric M. on 1 Jul 2015, 02:00 am
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I've been using an older Panasonic 3D Blu-Ray player but would like to step up. I need all the current bells and whistles except 4K. I would like as much as I can get in the way of streaming but if hi-end and streaming don't mix, I could always keep the Panasonic hooked up (although, most of it's issues are with streaming). Home theater movies and good old fashion stereo audio listening are what I'm do most. Again, if these don't mix, I'd be more concerned with the movie side and I could always stick with my older Denon CD player for music.
I've looked at the Denon DBT-3313UDCI and the Yamaha BD-A1040BL and BD-S677. I've heard losts about Oppo but don't know much about them.
Any advice or experience would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric M.
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There really is only one best choice: an Oppo. If your primary use is for video and cd transport or music streamer to feed an external DAC, then the 103 model is sufficient. If you want to use it as your primary DAC, or don't want to get an external DAC, then the 105 model is the best choice. I've read that the oppo Blu-ray players well soon support the Tidal music service as well with a firmware upgrade.
So seriously, don't overthink it, just get an Oppo! You won't regret it.
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I agree that Oppo is the best choice by far. Don't overlook finding a used 95 model. It may actually surpass the newer and more expensive 105.
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Another vote for Oppo - have 5 of them.
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Yes. Oppo is the best. No need to look any further. It is also great value for money IMHO. Have been using a 95 for the past 5 years and have it modded. Its still going strong. I don't even feel the need to upgrade.
I recently switched to projection and it works beautifully with my Runco. Great value for money. One of the most worthwhile purchase for my HT I have ever had.
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That makes it easy, Oppo it is. If I'm plugging this via HDMI into my A/V receiver, am I basically using the DAC in the A/V receiver?
Would I want the 103 model?
Thanks for the help.
Eric M.
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Oppo 105D if you're going to use it for video and audio. I use mine solely as a spinner and HiRez player so I skipped the Darbee edition for video. Good solid unit. Good DACs. Even a good headphone amp so I hear.
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That makes it easy, Oppo it is. If I'm plugging this via HDMI into my A/V receiver, am I basically using the DAC in the A/V receiver?
Would I want the 103 model?
Hi Eric, yes, if you are using HDMI to the receiver, you are using the DAC in the AVR. The extra money spent on the 105's analog circuits is wasted. FWIW I have a 103 and am not pleased with the analog output circuitry. The 105 does have some additional features other than the better analog outs like USB audio input.
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JohnR,
Quote: "FWIW I have a 103 and am not pleased with the analog output circuitry."
I am curious as to why? If I get a 103 to use with my AVA Fet Valve DAC will I get compromised sound quality? Should I get a 105 even if I use an external DAC?
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Hi, if you are using an external DAC, then the analog circuitry of the 103 is not being used.
It would only be stereo though, I assume that's understood.
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love my 103. I just think Oppo gave its analog circuits short shrift. I guess they figured that an audiophile wanting analog directly out of the unit would step up to the 105. Fair enough. My issues with the 103 analog outputs are actually nothing to do with the audio quality per se, it boils down to two things: a slight DC offset when the unit goes into mute, resulting in a "pop" between every track of (say) a CD, and a couple of bugs in the bass management.
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Thanks for the explanation.
Why wold it only be stereo if not using the DAC in the 103? If I'm using the digital output of the 103 and the DAC of my A/V receiver (Yamaha CX-A5000) wouldn't it convert whatever the digital signal coded, be it stereo, 5.1, 7.2, etc.?
Eric M.
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The comment about stereo was to NIGHTFALL1970, who said he would be using an AVA Fet Valve DAC.
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Oppo 105D if you're going to use it for video and audio. I use mine solely as a spinner and HiRez player so I skipped the Darbee edition for video. Good solid unit. Good DACs. Even a good headphone amp so I hear.
Not sure - but don't think they still make the plain old 105 - https://www.oppodigital.com/
The 105D also gets one additional goodies via the USB (like DSD) input.
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Ahh, that makes sense.
Thanks
The comment about stereo was to NIGHTFALL1970, who said he would be using an AVA Fet Valve DAC.
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The inherent DC offset issue is not limited to the 103. My Oppo BDP-83 exhibited the same/similar issue and thumped when switching tracks. After a few go arounds with Oppo technical support and them assuring me this was "normal behavior", I decided to sell the unit. :) I won't buy another product from them.
However, this DC offset problem may not be an issue for some users. Much depends upon the component the Oppo feeds into. Whether it's DC-coupled, the magnitude of the input resistance, etc, etc.
Maybe the DC offset issue has been fixed with the 103/105, but it should be checked/understood.....IMHO.
Dave.
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Maybe the DC offset issue has been fixed with the 103/105, but it should be checked/understood.....IMHO.
Dave.
I think it is still there in the 103s. I have two 103Ds. One in the main system (which now is just used for video in an integrated A/V system) and one is a secondary system where I have a hard drive with music attached. I have a music server in the main system. If I go thru HT Bypass with the preamp, I wait until a disc has started as sometimes it will throw the amp into protection. Also did it when I stuck the hard drive on it and started to play something. Don't need the hard drive in the main system so it is not a big deal. I have a modded 83, a 93 and also an old DV980H. It causes no issues in the secondary system where I have a preamp with HT Bypass as well.
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+1 for an Oppo. My 83 is still working great.
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Oppo is a great value as well as being built well for the money. All my players still work and work well. My DV980H is probably about 8.5 years old, give or take. I was going to sell it a few years back and had one out-of-region disc and discovered with the remote and a 4 digit code it can be made region free. I'll be buying their next player.
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Maybe the DC offset issue has been fixed with the 103/105, but it should be checked/understood.....IMHO.
Hi Dave, not fixed in the 103, at least in units sold in AU about a year and a half ago... The information I've gleaned is that the 103 has it, and the 105 doesn't. However, I only have the 103 and have not used or measured a 105. It's not like it's a huge offset, as I recall it's 6 mV, but turning on and off between every track, and with the 103 connected directly to power amps, it was very audible and quite annoying. My end take was that the 103 is not suited for direct connection to power amps. In every other regard, I love it. Interesting to hear that this is not a new issue.
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I'm lucky, I guess. My 103 does not have the DC offset issue. There is no 'pop' between tracks.
Now's my chance to offer my 103 for sale at only double the retail price. :wink:
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I'll take it!!
But seriously, .. hm. Are you connected directly to power amps?
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I found this about the 105:
http://wiki.oppodigital.com/index.php?title=BDP-105_Hardware_FAQ
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If you mean "The BDP-95 used DC coupled output, and OPPO found a few rare but annoying compatibility issues with certain amplifiers. Some amplifier may have a DC offset on its input and that has caused issues from popping noises, "
I got that basic response from Oppo support about the 103. Basically, they blamed my amplification. I tried different amps, and also measured ZERO offset on their inputs. It's basically horsehit, and I would have thought it below Oppo to do that (shift the blame). Sorry, I'm just saying what it seems/ed like to me. Again, I love my 103, just not the analog circuits.
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Yeah, that's the same HS I got from Oppo. They blamed my preamp. :)
6 millivolts would/should not cause an issue. The offset on mine was 1.5 VDC while playing! When paused or switching between tracks the DC disappears, but when you restart it appears again. It's not a "hard" voltage and it can be bled somewhat by the input resistance of the following component. That's why I mentioned some folks might not experience the issue. This kind of thing can charge/discharge input coupling capacitors, cause issues in DC-coupled gear, etc, etc.
Regardless, they told me this amount of DC offset was normal for this player. I said, "Are you sure about that?" They said, "Yes, thank you for contacting Oppo Support."
Dave.
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:o
Well, I claim that 6mV IS an issue, if it switches on and off. It drove me nuts anyway.
1.5V?? OK that's a completely different kettle of fish...
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I have not swapped 103D units between the two systems. Each uses it with a preamp with HT Bypass. The main system is different as it goes in single ended (RCA) and comes out of the preamp as balanced (perhaps the floating grounds?) and one has an issue and one doesn't (the main system preamp also is not on when it is used for movies as it reverts to HT Bypass so perhaps the amp sees it differently?). It's on my agenda to try new (single ended) interconnects probably over the winter. I live with the issue. When I start a movie in the main system it is with the main (left and right channel) amp off. I start the movie and pause it and turn the amp on (it goes through a 45 second check) and it is fine. So I love the Oppo players as well but like anything else they are not perfect. Eventually in the secondary system I'll get a 4k TV, new receiver (have an old Marantz 6003 in there now) and a new Oppo when the new players are out. So probably just under a year from now. At that point I'll likely try the other 103D in the main system just for kicks as I'll be rotating players anyway.
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Regardless, if a person is going to use an external DAC, none of these audio idiosyncrasies make any difference. But in that case, one wonders why it's necessary to spend $500 on a video player. I use a cheap Panasonic DMP-BD player for my setup. Terrific picture quality, networked, etc, etc. It can't be much/any worse than the Oppo 103.
Dave.
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+1 for an Oppo. My 83 is still working great.
me too
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Dave, you have a point. I have a functioning system that I like, and therefore no motivation to look into alternatives at present. But, I suspect it's unlikely that in future, the Oppo will be replaced with an Oppo. I do get the impression that these units are largely built from commodity chipsets now.
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I've had other units in systems and do own a colorimeter and have the Spears and Munsil disc. In the old house, in the basement system, I had a Sony 720 projector on an 88 inch Carada screen. For a long while I mainly used the system for daytime football viewing. Then I decided to swap out what I had used as a Blu-Ray source one day and replace it with the BDP-93 I had in the master bedroom system for a bit. The old source was marginally not as good in the master bedroom system. It was something that could be noticed but not a night and day difference (and I only watched a dozen movies a year in there). However, I was shocked in the basement system. It tested much better and I watched a few minutes of one DVD and that looked much better. I met a friend for dinner and came back to watch 'Avatar' on Blu-Ray on the basement system and we were both in shock. He thought I got a new projector. So if your screen is big enough and good enough, there's likely to be more differences between good and so-so Blu-Ray players. I wouldn't begin to generalize that all Blu-Ray players will be about as good on every system.
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I wouldn't begin to generalize that all Blu-Ray players will be about as good on every system.
OK... you are the only person suggesting that ;) I object if that is your characterization of my comment about the chipsets ( :) )
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Comment had nothing to do with your comment about chipsets. Someone remarked about a cheapo player being as good as an Oppo. Could very well be almost as good as I pointed out in one system but made a huge difference in another. My comment was about generalizations. I've head components sound good in one system and awful in another and have seen people make comments that the component sucked as in plain sucks vs. not a good match.
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Well, not somebody, Davey. And he did specifically said "Terrific picture quality", as an owner of the Panasonic, I didn't read that as generalizing that all cheap players are the same as all expensive players.
Anyway, I have the impressions that for videophiles, the objective tests are much more meaningful than for audiophiles. Would it be the case that objective tests correlate to subjective image quality for video? Or not... honest question here.
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Well, not somebody, Davey. And he did specifically said "Terrific picture quality", as an owner of the Panasonic, I didn't read that as generalizing that all cheap players are the same as all expensive players.
Anyway, I have the impressions that for videophiles, the objective tests are much more meaningful than for audiophiles. Would it be the case that objective tests correlate to subjective image quality for video? Or not... honest question here.
The comment was "It can't be much/any worse than the Oppo 103." As I noted I did not notice tons of difference when I swapped the BDP-93 out of a system with a cheapo but did notice tons of difference in the other system where the BDP-93 was moved to. 'Can't' is an absolute and I would respectifully disagree that in every system it 'can't' make a difference.
My Marantz DV9600 was about as good as an Oppo on DVD (of course the Marantz can't do Blu-Ray) is three systems I've had it in. I'd still give a slight edge to the Oppo but certainly not something that would cause me to lose any sleep.
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Maybe you missed the part where I said "much/any"?? Good grief. :)
Regardless, the OP asked about "hi-end" players. I will stipulate that a cheap Panasonic player will not fit into that category (whatever that means in this context.) Sorry for even mentioning it.
My goodness.
Dave.
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Maybe you missed the part where I said "much/any"?? Good grief. :)
Regardless, the OP asked about "hi-end" players. I will stipulate that a cheap Panasonic player will not fit into that category (whatever that means in this context.) Sorry for even mentioning it.
My goodness.
Dave.
No need to be sorry. I'm glad that the Panasonic works for you. I wish that Oppo would do like they did with the old BDP-80 and forego some of the audio formats (e.g. SACD and DVD-A) and make a video only player as I except when I have get togethers of the Space Coast Audio Society at my place once or twice a year, that's the only time a disc (on the main system) other than a Blu-Ray gets played and most of them are plain old CDs. They (Oppo) put a lot of features in their players and not everyone needs all those for video only. It seems that many of the better Blu-Ray players from other manufacturers follow this lead.
While not really up-to-date - these guys had some nice in depth reviews of Blu-Ray players - http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/blu-ray-players/blu-ray-players-reviews.html including the BDP-103 and one of the Panasonics.
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I have a question for all of you:
If I'm using an external DAC (Yamaha CX-A5000), should I even be looking at the Oppo since both models have a built in DAC? Does anyone make a transport only Blu-Ray, DVD, CD, 3-D transport unit? It seems like I would be spending a lot of money on a DAC I would not be using. Or, is the transport section the costly part, the DAC not very expensive and Oppo offers a superior transport?
Thanks,
Eric M.
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You could always get a PS3...
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You could always get a PS3...
Are you teasing me??! :o
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Slightly off topic,,, I'd love to see Oppo make something like the Bdp-105 WITHOUT the disc player,, just a renderer with dac in one box.
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I just wonder if it would be any cheaper. With the disc player, they have a much bigger market (I surmise).
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Slightly off topic,,, I'd love to see Oppo make something like the Bdp-105 WITHOUT the disc player,, just a renderer with dac in one box.
They do make a DAC/Headphone amp - https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-1/
It would be nice if one could just attach a hard drive and play.
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I have a question for all of you:
If I'm using an external DAC (Yamaha CX-A5000), should I even be looking at the Oppo since both models have a built in DAC? Does anyone make a transport only Blu-Ray, DVD, CD, 3-D transport unit? It seems like I would be spending a lot of money on a DAC I would not be using. Or, is the transport section the costly part, the DAC not very expensive and Oppo offers a superior transport?
Thanks,
Eric M.
Not anything cost effective that I'm aware of - e.g. - http://www.msbtech.com/products/universal.php?Page=dac4home
Many moons ago, I owned an expensive DVD (only transport). Since then, when it comes to video or digital technology, I tend to have a limit on what I'm willing to spend as it goes obsolete faster than something like an amp or a preamp (and that's why I have two systems where I have an integrated system with a preamp with HT Bypass - much easier to get a new receiver every 5 years or so).
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Recommended Unit Price $89950 (no typo, that's eighty nine thousand)
Wow, I really didn't think you could spend that much on a DAC.
Not anything cost effective that I'm aware of - e.g. - http://www.msbtech.com/products/universal.php?Page=dac4home
Many moons ago, I owned an expensive DVD (only transport). Since then, when it comes to video or digital technology, I tend to have a limit on what I'm willing to spend as it goes obsolete faster than something like an amp or a preamp (and that's why I have two systems where I have an integrated system with a preamp with HT Bypass - much easier to get a new receiver every 5 years or so).
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Are you teasing me??! :o
Well, maybe a little. PS3 is a transport that can read all the media you want to read. BYODAC and you'd be all set. I have no idea how the PS3 is as a transport, but some folks seem to like it for ripping SACDs.
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I think it's only older version of PS3's that can do that. I think they're called "fatties" (as the new units are called "slims") in reference to the girth of the unit.
I could be wrong on that though.
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Recommended Unit Price $89950 (no typo, that's eighty nine thousand)
Wow, I really didn't think you could spend that much on a DAC.
Some ultra high end stuff is very expensive.
I have a couple of Fat PS3s. One is the jail broken one that can burn SACDs. The other is of the same vintage but does not play SACDs (and is currently sitting in a closet - at one point in the old place I used it as a blu-ray source in the basement system. Also did for a drop in the new place in the bonus guest room (also have the harmony remote adapter for it) but to keep it simple just put an old Sony Blu-Ray player in there and when I upgrade an Oppo next year, one of the Oppos will be moved there so I can take away the Marantz DV9600 DVD universal to play CD, SACDs and DVD-As (the Marantz is the best CD transport I have in my house but I no longer have room for multiple transports in systems and the two systems where I have DACs, I use file playback and the transport gets used once a year at Space Coast Audio Society meetings).
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I think it is the fat 32 that is being refenced......
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So, I ended up getting the Oppo 103D. I got a chance to play around with it last night and go through the 90 page instruction book. I like it but I'm not too impressed with the Darbee feature. I'll need to play around with it more but right now I feel like I purchased $100 worth of snake oil. It looks like an elaborate contrast / sharpness control. Anyone else with Darbee have any input?
Thanks,
Eric M.
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I got Darbee on my 105D because they no longer offer that model without it. It's doubtful that I'd have paid the extra if I'd had a choice, however the results turn out to be pretty impressive via projector.
Having said that, the upcharge for Darbee is a much bigger % of the price for a 103 versus a 105.
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I'm going to need to play around with it a bit more. I tried with my Plasma and projector. Maybe it was the Blu-Ray I was viewing. Glad to hear positive feedback about Darbee.
Eric M.
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I'm late to the party but I'll throw out more love for Oppo. I have the BDP-95 that is four years old and it puts out a stunning picture. I have been streaming most of my movies lately, but the other day I tossed in a bluray of the most recent Hobbit film....holy WOW...and the audio! I immediately signed back up for Netflix blurays again instead of just the streaming. This player is fantastic.