[Nuance]

I'm looking into the DIY Rhythmic subs and this thread:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65525.0

Fantastic subwoofer for the money, bud.  Check out our South East Wisconsin Subwoofer GTG thread at AVS and you'll get a lot of feedback on it.  In short, exlcuding ridiculous output, the Rythmik stayed on pace with the much more expensive JL Audio Fathom 112.  Very impressive! 

Also, before you purchase a Rythmik (if you do), talk to Jim.    Oh, and go with the 15"!

Here is the thread start where people begin posting impressions:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111483&page=8

[letthemusicplay]

Him I'll be able to tell  you in a few weeks the difference between the phantom and actual center. I have been running a pair of ST without the center, and my ST center will be here in a few weeks.  It sounds pretty good without the center now, so I am hoping it sounds awesome with the center.  I will say that I am running a JL Audio F113 now, which I think has absolutely improved HT, and improves some types of music.  For me, rock like U2 and Cold play is better with the sub, but vocal driven stuff is only marginally improved.  And the improvement from the sub is only on high volumes.   

[mathgeek97]

Paoli Dad,

Seeing how you're 80% home theater, if I were you I'd forgo the center channel issues (whether to get one or not) and get a subwoofer instead (for now).  The ST's will work great in a "phantom mode," as that's how I am currently running them.  Will I get the matching center?  Heck yes, but it's more for those sitting off-axis than anything.  But the subwoofer - now that's very important in my opinion.  You get the "full" experience and will be taking some strain off your amps if you cross the ST's over. 

I am sure War Of the Worlds is just great with the SongTower's alone, but when paired with a subwoofer you're transported to the action as if you're there, seeing and feeling all of it (just watch the pod emerge scene).  Since your mostly HT, I'd recommend talking the wife into letting you add a subwoofer, even if it's a "small" one. 

Just my $0.02.

Nuance,
Are you running ST-RTs?  This thread has me thinking I could buy the Ribbon Tweeter version of the SongTowers and get away with running them in "phantom mode."  I have the same problem as others here, WAF is a major factor, as I have the TV in the living room.  I also have the worlds dumbest TV stand - the upper shelf has about 6.5" of clearance.  And even if Jim could build a squashed SongCenter, I'd still have to deal with my better half.  I am also predicting no subwoofer in my future... but you never know!
-Kevin

[BoB/335]

[/quote]
Nuance,
Are you running ST-RTs?  This thread has me thinking I could buy the Ribbon Tweeter version of the SongTowers and get away with running them in "phantom mode."  I have the same problem as others here, WAF is a major factor, as I have the TV in the living room.  I also have the worlds dumbest TV stand - the upper shelf has about 6.5" of clearance.  And even if Jim could build a squashed SongCenter, I'd still have to deal with my better half.  I am also predicting no subwoofer in my future... but you never know!
-Kevin
[/quote]


Should the ribbon tweeter be any better as a phantom center than the dome tweeter?

[mathgeek97]

Nuance,
Are you running ST-RTs?  This thread has me thinking I could buy the Ribbon Tweeter version of the SongTowers and get away with running them in "phantom mode."  I have the same problem as others here, WAF is a major factor, as I have the TV in the living room.  I also have the worlds dumbest TV stand - the upper shelf has about 6.5" of clearance.  And even if Jim could build a squashed SongCenter, I'd still have to deal with my better half.  I am also predicting no subwoofer in my future... but you never know!
-Kevin

Should the ribbon tweeter be any better as a phantom center than the dome tweeter?

Jim might have numbers to share for off-axis frequency response, which I thought were different between the two tweeters.  But, really, I wouldn't mind hearing the opinion of an ST-RT owner going without a center channel speaker.

[jsalk]

Nuance,
Are you running ST-RTs?  This thread has me thinking I could buy the Ribbon Tweeter version of the SongTowers and get away with running them in "phantom mode."  I have the same problem as others here, WAF is a major factor, as I have the TV in the living room.  I also have the worlds dumbest TV stand - the upper shelf has about 6.5" of clearance.  And even if Jim could build a squashed SongCenter, I'd still have to deal with my better half.  I am also predicting no subwoofer in my future... but you never know!
-Kevin

Should the ribbon tweeter be any better as a phantom center than the dome tweeter?

Jim might have numbers to share for off-axis frequency response, which I thought were different between the two tweeters.  But, really, I wouldn't mind hearing the opinion of an ST-RT owner going without a center channel speaker.

Well, the dome tweeter is going to have slightly better dispersion.  But the LCY tweeter happens to have exelent dispersion in its own right.  Since you would not likely be seated that far off-axis in a home theater situation, I don't think off-axis tweeter response is at all an issue.  Either version would perform very well in this situation.

- Jim

[Nuance]

\
Nuance,
Are you running ST-RTs?  This thread has me thinking I could buy the Ribbon Tweeter version of the SongTowers and get away with running them in "phantom mode."  I have the same problem as others here, WAF is a major factor, as I have the TV in the living room.  I also have the worlds dumbest TV stand - the upper shelf has about 6.5" of clearance.  And even if Jim could build a squashed SongCenter, I'd still have to deal with my better half.  I am also predicting no subwoofer in my future... but you never know!
-Kevin

Yup, and I also run them in phantom mode.  They sound great!

Like Jim said, if you plan on sitting off-axis, you'll notice a difference, and I think you'll miss the center channel, as that is what helps the dialog remain in the center (no pun intended).  However, if it's just you and the misses you should be able to get away without it.

I'll be ordering a SongCenter this year, but I just haven't figured out whether to pop the extra for the ribbon (to achieve a seamless timbre match) or just go with the dome.  Decisions, decisions...

[mchuckp]

When you say you "run in phantom mode", is there a setting in your receiver/processor or do you mean you just don't have a center hooked up?  Not familiar with all the settings in the latest gear.  I'm currently using an Onkyo 803 receiver from probably 4 years ago into an Outlaw 7125 amp and pretty sure I don't have any "phantom" settings.

I've been saving up for some Salk speakers and my plan was to get a pair of ST's and a SongCenter.  Been rethinking this lately as I've gotten heavily into 2-channel music again after discovering the beauty of vinyl.  Now I'm debating NOT getting a center and putting the money towards a 2nd pair of Salks for a 2nd room.

[/quote]
Yup, and I also run them in phantom mode.  They sound great!

Like Jim said, if you plan on sitting off-axis, you'll notice a difference, and I think you'll miss the center channel, as that is what helps the dialog remain in the center (no pun intended).  However, if it's just you and the misses you should be able to get away without it.

I'll be ordering a SongCenter this year, but I just haven't figured out whether to pop the extra for the ribbon (to achieve a seamless timbre match) or just go with the dome.  Decisions, decisions...
[/quote]

[Nuance]

When you say you "run in phantom mode", is there a setting in your receiver/processor or do you mean you just don't have a center hooked up?  Not familiar with all the settings in the latest gear.  I'm currently using an Onkyo 803 receiver from probably 4 years ago into an Outlaw 7125 amp and pretty sure I don't have any "phantom" settings.

There is no Phantom mode in my receiver (Onkyo 805).  I just run without a center, so all the information that would be sent to the center gets spread out before the mains.  Like I said, it sounds great when sitting in or near the sweet spot.  I will be getting a center channel down the road, though, as well as the matching SongSurround rears. 

Hmm...a center or another pair of ST's?  Now THAT is a tough decision.

[mchuckp]

When you say you "run in phantom mode", is there a setting in your receiver/processor or do you mean you just don't have a center hooked up?  Not familiar with all the settings in the latest gear.  I'm currently using an Onkyo 803 receiver from probably 4 years ago into an Outlaw 7125 amp and pretty sure I don't have any "phantom" settings.

There is no Phantom mode in my receiver (Onkyo 805).  I just run without a center, so all the information that would be sent to the center gets spread out before the mains.  Like I said, it sounds great when sitting in or near the sweet spot.  I will be getting a center channel down the road, though, as well as the matching SongSurround rears. 

Hmm...a center or another pair of ST's?  Now THAT is a tough decision.

My issue is that I will be moving from OH to OR in the fall and have no idea what my house will be like.  As hard as it is for me to be sitting on all this money right now, I'm trying to be smart and wait until we buy a house before deciding what I want for sure.  I thought about 2 pair of speakers for 2 different rooms and no center.  Or getting 3 Song Surround I's to go with my sub for HT and use the ST's for music in another room.  Music is more important to me than HT, but if we end up in a smaller house I may be forced to have one in the same.

I hate the idea of investing a lot of dough into speakers because I'm antsy and find out that they aren't right for my application in 6 months.  I'm happy to see many comments from folks who aren't using a center.  That keeps the option of doing that alive.  I could even follow your lead and potentially add a center in time if needed.

[BoB/335]

I hate the idea of investing a lot of dough into speakers because I'm antsy and find out that they aren't right for my application in 6 months.  I'm happy to see many comments from folks who aren't using a center.  That keeps the option of doing that alive.  I could even follow your lead and potentially add a center in time if needed.

That would be the way to go. Get a nice pair of mains for now and start enjoying the music. Wait till you move to figure out your next move.

[Gord_Toronto]

That would be the way to go. Get a nice pair of mains for now and start enjoying the music. Wait till you move to figure out your next move.
[/quote]

+1

[letthemusicplay]

When you say you "run in phantom mode", is there a setting in your receiver/processor or do you mean you just don't have a center hooked up?  Not familiar with all the settings in the latest gear.  I'm currently using an Onkyo 803 receiver from probably 4 years ago into an Outlaw 7125 amp and pretty sure I don't have any "phantom" settings.

I've been saving up for some Salk speakers and my plan was to get a pair of ST's and a SongCenter.  Been rethinking this lately as I've gotten heavily into 2-channel music again after discovering the beauty of vinyl.  Now I'm debating NOT getting a center and putting the money towards a 2nd pair of Salks for a 2nd room.

Yup, and I also run them in phantom mode.  They sound great!

Like Jim said, if you plan on sitting off-axis, you'll notice a difference, and I think you'll miss the center channel, as that is what helps the dialog remain in the center (no pun intended).  However, if it's just you and the misses you should be able to get away without it.

I'll be ordering a SongCenter this year, but I just haven't figured out whether to pop the extra for the ribbon (to achieve a seamless timbre match) or just go with the dome.  Decisions, decisions...
[/quote]
[/quote]


My pioneer vsx 92 has an option that allows you to define which speakers in a 7.2 set-up are actually operational, so I think its sends the signals to they speakers that defined as functional.  I have the ST RT, and operated without a center or backs for about 3 months.  I added a sub about a month and a half ago, so it was ST and the sub only.  This set up was fantastic.  I just got the Song center however, re-ran the pioneer set-up to add the center and it is now phenomenal.  The center is a dome and I do not see how the ribbon on the center would improve anything, especially HT.  Getting the backs installed will make it even better, so thats the next step.  For those conteplating center or phantom, I think get the center if HT is important.  It will always improve the experience regardless of what kind of room you have or will have.  The immersive qualities with music are just great.