Size of the music room which do you think is better for Ulysses + bow ?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 4627 times.

Ulisse60

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 62
Hi all, I'm starting to evaluate a new environment for the future music venue, a dedicated room, i.e. I will be able to arrange and treat the environment as I like, I have 2 possible options, of which I am attaching the plan and dimensions, in your opinion, for the Ulysses system + bow, which is more suitable and why ?? Suggestions on how to position the system and listening point in the 2 different rooms are also welcome, thanks for your contributions and suggestions.

greetings, Dario

Ulisse60

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 62
The first room :



Measurements expressed in metres, 2 entrances, 3 windows, room height 2.80 metres, there are no restrictions on positioning between a wall with a single window or a wall facing the 2 windows.

The second room :




Measurements expressed in metres, 2 entrances, 2 windows, room height 2.75 metres, short side positioning, free to insert system in one of the 2 short sides.

Thanks for any comments or suggestions
greetings, Dario




Bones13

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 112
I like the "sala" room (living room? sitting room?) better myself. Chair with the stairs behind it. Particularly if the views out of that pair of windows is good.

There will be much more flexibility in bringing the speakers out from the back and side walls in that room. The room is almost square though, and some room treatments might be necessary if the subs get too rowdy.

The long, narrow room will either need the speakers along a short wall, and be close to the side walls, or along a long wall, making them have to be close the wall behind them. Along the long wall will also make them somewhat "near field", probably not optimal for your bigger speakers.

dpatters

Square rooms are a real challenge. Rectangular room much preferred.

Don P

vinyl_lady

I don't understand your measurements. Is there supposed to be a decimal point somewhere? Surely the room is not 570 meters by 500 meters or 1870 feet by 1640 feet.

All in all, as dpatters says, working with rectangular rooms is better than square rooms.

mresseguie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4713
  • SW1X DAC+ D Sachs 300b + Daedalus Apollos = Heaven
I don't understand your measurements. Is there supposed to be a decimal point somewhere? Surely the room is not 570 meters by 500 meters or 1870 feet by 1640 feet.

All in all, as dpatters says, working with rectangular rooms is better than square rooms.

Imagine a decimal point after the first number, so 570 = 5.7 meters (224.4 inches/~18 feet 8 inches).

Dario,

[Please disregard my suggestion to use the second narrow room. I added a comment explaining my change of mind further down in this thread.]

The Cantina room dimensions are very close to my listening room's dimensions. I believe you (and your speakers) will be much happier in this room. I can listen my Apollos in both near-field and 'normal' listening distances and be quite content with the results.

Michael
« Last Edit: 25 Jun 2023, 04:45 pm by mresseguie »

Tyson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 11104
  • Audio - It's all a big fake.
Avoid the square room.  Square rooms are terrible for bass.

whydontumarryit

  • Restricted
  • Posts: 218
That rectangular room is far from better than the square room you show.

In fact, the 5x5.7 meter room is just about perfect. With the speakers a foot from the wall and 3 ft. from the sidewalls with the LP up against the opposite wall (an approx. 12 ft. triangle) it's all direct sound from the speakers and minimal coloration from room reflections and the added distortion to the source material (especially at hi freq's).

Room treatments will be unnecessary in this configuration. The entire room can be used for listening rather than the cramped situation in a 10x25 ft. room (if you cared to actually envision being in a room of this size it would soon be obvious that you are standing in what is known as a hallway) with dimensions that love to trick you with that sense of a fake soundstage and envelopment.

Low freq. room modes always need to be dealt with, it makes no difference what the room dimensions are.
Good luck.

mick wolfe

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1238
 I have to agree. That room gives you the greatest flexibility by far. The only drawback I see is that appears to be an upstairs room. (from your drawing) So you may have to do a little extra homework in regard to equipment rack/component isolation and speaker de-coupling.(from the floor) This all depends on the type of house construction though. Nice generous sized room regardless :thumb:

Ulisse60

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 62
Thanks to all for your posts, in fact the plan is expressed in decimal measure, but 570 , as an example, are centimeters, therefore 5.7 meters .
I read that there are different opinions, and in fact if one room had been decidedly better than the other I would have fewer doubts about it
The room on the ground floor is very long, more than 8 meters, and would allow you to listen with plenty of air behind the speakers and behind the listening point, to stay in the field closer or further away, the big limitation for a Ulysses + system bow is determined by the width of the room, less than 4 meters !!
The room on the first floor is almost square, but it certainly allows for better management of system positioning, perhaps there is little space left behind the loudspeakers and listening point, and therefore some compromises of distance and listening triangle.
The best thing would be to be able to listen in the 2 environments, we'll see what will be possible to implement to evaluate the 2 environments
thanks and any hint or advice will be well evaluated, so many eyes and cd experiences are better than two
greetings, Dario

audiotom

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 648
  • Ground control to Major Tom
    • for everything music
That rectangular room is far from better than the square room you show.

In fact, the 5x5.7 meter room is just about perfect. With the speakers a foot from the wall and 3 ft. from the sidewalls with the LP up against the opposite wall (an approx. 12 ft. triangle) it's all direct sound from the speakers and minimal coloration from room reflections and the added distortion to the source material (especially at hi freq's).

Room treatments will be unnecessary in this configuration. The entire room can be used for listening rather than the cramped situation in a 10x25 ft. room (if you cared to actually envision being in a room of this size it would soon be obvious that you are standing in what is known as a hallway) with dimensions that love to trick you with that sense of a fake soundstage and envelopment.

Low freq. room modes always need to be dealt with, it makes no difference what the room dimensions are.
Good luck.

Great advice

Do these rooms already exist? Or is this an extension of the house or waiting to be built?

In either setup I would place the equipment on a side wall - not between the speakers for best imaging, unless the equipment is lying low on the floor.

Are you playing cds, lps or streaming? What is the floor material?

The 5 x 5.7 meters  (16.4’ x 18.7’) room allows you to bring the speakers out and yet still get the depth to have the drivers fully integrate by being far enough from the listeners. 

My main music room is 4.4  x 8.5 meters - (14.5’ x 28’) like your elongated room but wider. This sounds best with the speakers on the long wall. No side wall effects. I listen in a nearfield environment 10 ft from the speakers - I would love to have the room deeper. That is very critical.  With the long wall setup you don’t have to treat the side walls. I tried the short wall with Ulysses and it just did not work - speakers too close to the side walls. I have not placed my Apollo 11s on the short wall.   I would not even try to do this setup in a narrower room.

Your rectangular room  would not go with this setup - the room isn’t deep enough

My Home Theater room has Ulysses and opens up into my kitchen.  The room is 5.5  x 5.8 meters (18’ x 19’) and the kitchen extends its width by another 4 meters. There is plenty of room behind the couch (1 meter)  - it is really the direct distance to the speakers that is most critical

All the best in getting the best sound.

audiotom

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 648
  • Ground control to Major Tom
    • for everything music
Just found a photo you posted from your Ulysses thread

The rectangular room just isn’t wide enough to do the Ulysses justice

A much bigger factor than how far you can bring the speakers out into the room or how much distance between you and the back wall.
The other room is more than adequate to do that.

https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=250638




They will sound much better in a wider room

The 5.7 x 5 meter will work very well.


Ulisse60

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 62
Just found a photo you posted from your Ulysses thread

The rectangular room just isn’t wide enough to do the Ulysses justice

A much bigger factor than how far you can bring the speakers out into the room or how much distance between you and the back wall.
The other room is more than adequate to do that.

https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=250638




They will sound much better in a wider room

The 5.7 x 5 meter will work very well.

I agree that the rectangular room is too narrow, in length it allows for variable placements of both the system and the listening point, while in width it lacks about 1 meter to make it a good environment for ulysses and bow
I'll try to do some simulation on the 5 x 5.7 room, to evaluate distances between the speakers, of these from the walls and possible listening point, in your opinion the side facing the 2 windows for positioning the speakers is better, or I could also think about the side with single window and listening point just ahead of the door to the kitchen, with air behind the listening point ??
greetings, Dario

mresseguie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 4713
  • SW1X DAC+ D Sachs 300b + Daedalus Apollos = Heaven
Just found a photo you posted from your Ulysses thread

The rectangular room just isn’t wide enough to do the Ulysses justice

A much bigger factor than how far you can bring the speakers out into the room or how much distance between you and the back wall.
The other room is more than adequate to do that.

https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=250638




They will sound much better in a wider room

The 5.7 x 5 meter will work very well.

A picture truly does tell a thousands words!  :o

I retract my suggestion to place the speakers in the second <long and narrow> room for two reasons. The first is I now realize your speakers are larger than mine - I should have remembered this, but didn't:oops:  The second is because my smaller Apollo speakers are in the widest half of my living room/dining room space. The widest half is 15 ft wide while the narrow half is 13ft wide. The very heavy dining room table is located in the narrower section, and I never tried to move the table out and place my speakers there.

Michael

audiotom

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 648
  • Ground control to Major Tom
    • for everything music
Dario

Please post a couple pictures from various angles in your 5x5.7 room
Generally it is nice to have the windows behind the speakers. You can close drapes when you want to do some serious listening
Windows behind your head create strong secondary arrivals that are not good. Plus it is nicer to look out a window

Generally I’d say have the speakers on the 5 meter wall  and extra depth to the listener but either would work

It is Trial and error - take your time. Refined Speaker placement is a major tweek.
It takes time, patience and an ear for detail but it can make a big difference and it is free

All the best
« Last Edit: 26 Jun 2023, 04:54 pm by audiotom »

Ulisse60

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 62
Dario

Please post a couple pictures from various angles in your 5x5.7 room
Generally it is nice to have the windows behind the speakers. You can close drapes when you want to do some serious listening
Windows behind your head create strong secondary arrivals that are not good. Plus it is nicer to look out a window

Generally I’d say have the speakers on the 5 meter wall  and extra depth to the listener but either would work

It is Trial and error - take your time. Refined Speaker placement is a major tweek.
It takes time, patience and an ear for detail but it can make a big difference and it is free

All the best
HI
unfortunately the possible new location and new music room did not materialize, so I remain in my small environment, until new events, however it is interesting to get an idea of ​​the dimensions, especially small ones, to be able to set Ulysses and Bows in the future. . . .
regards, Dario