AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: sumoking on 27 Dec 2017, 04:53 am
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Would appreciate hearing what subwoofer has worked and what subwoofer has not worked with the M3S Turbo's.
Thank you and happy holidays.
Bill...
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At one point early on I was under the impression that I needed a sub. However this proved to be nothing but a false alarm, as my amp simply wasn't up to the task of dealing with the impedance of the M3ts, particularly in the lower bass where the impedance soars up to 95Ω. What amp are you using?
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i have a custom set 2a3 and the timbre on this amp is more than special. The bass on this amp is accurate and punchy.
Note, I have used my 100w jolida 1000 and it still needed a sub.
Right now i using a transmission line sub with a build in 100 w amp. it's 18 years old and needs to be refreshed. my speakers sound great with my sub, but i know the sub's driver is aging... Wondering what musical subs have been used with success.
Thanks.
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i have a custom set 2a3 and the timbre on this amp is more than special. The bass on this amp is accurate and punchy.
Over the years I've owned a number of SET amps, including a 2A3, however you need to get your hands on a SS amp. I'm not kidding, the 2A3 is among my favorite tubes, but it cannot cope with the Spatial load. Before you blow that off and say heresy, make a point of at least trying a SS amp (any SS amp). I guarantee you you will will be more than surprised.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153407.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=153407.0)
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154294.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154294.0)
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If you decide to go with subs instead of changing amps look into the Rythmik F12's. I owned the M3 Turbo S's for over a year and had them upgraded to TM's and use two F12G's.
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Interesting...
I started with my Jolida 1000 (80 lbs) that is known for gutsy bass and a nice midrange. It drove my inefficient transmission line speakers very nicely and delivered deep low bass. I hooked them up to the M3s Turbos and they sounded great but after a while I came to miss deep bass.
The 2A3's were punchy and have nice bass on the spatial's but with a midrange and sound staging I haven't heard before. I have been an enthusiast for almost 40 years and was dealer and heard many different systems. While SS has some strengths, they also have some draw backs. It really needs to be done right- I have heard some SS amps that had it all, but were expensive and hard to find.
That said with my sub woofer, my system sounds where I want it. The subwoofer integrates seamlessly, but I have a hunch it could sound better with newer sub/amp technology. We will see, I ordered a SVS 4000 SB with a 45 day return policy. I'll report back on how it sounds.
I'll also get the triode upgrade that should help with impedance. I'm sure the sub will still come in handy after I get them to Triode master level. If not I will use it in my other system. Thank you!!
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If you decide to go with subs instead of changing amps look into the Rythmik F12's. I owned the M3 Turbo S's for over a year and had them upgraded to TM's and use two F12G's.
Wasn't surprised that you still went with subs after the TM upgrade. Really nice to have the lower bass notes come through.
I have heard good feedback on your subs, if I don't like the new 4000 SB, I'll send it back and try the JL's or the Rythmiks. Cheers!
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Curious, what TL sub are you running. I'm a big TL fan (owned a pair of what we'd call passive subs way back and now own a pair of extended range single driver TL's that I commissioned). Doubt any conventional sub would match a good TL sub for musicality.
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I'm a big fan of the TBI subs. For music, they provide a very nimble and natural sound, and "keep up" with the speed of OB's. Consider one or two passives with a Crown XLS amp w/ on-board low pass options. I'd skip the TBI subwoofer amp, I have one of those as well and while good, the Crown is better. The Crowns are reasonably priced and powerful class D, and bass is their forte, IMO.
I'd look toward the Crown XLS amps no matter how you decide to roll. Having a great bass amp and passive subs typically give you more placement options as well.
Here's a link to TBI...
http://tbisound.com/dsp_products_subwoofers.asp (http://tbisound.com/dsp_products_subwoofers.asp)
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Curious, what TL sub are you running. I'm a big TL fan (owned a pair of what we'd call passive subs way back and now own a pair of extended range single driver TL's that I commissioned). Doubt any conventional sub would match a good TL sub for musicality.
To start, I had a pair of Shahinian Obelisks, then a pair Diapasons with the double eagle. My most recent pair of TL speakers were the Impact Audio Ventos with the La Bamba TL Sub. I use the La Bamba sub with my M3S Turbos now. Its very musical, but like I mentioned its old and weathered after 18 years. if I don't like the SVS 4000 SB, it simply goes back.
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TBI subs have always intrigued me, but I don't understand how they work (not that I understand Martin King's MathCad application either). And I'm too cheap to spend $800+ for a sub. :oops:
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The 2A3's were punchy and have nice bass on the spatial's but with a midrange and sound staging I haven't heard before. I have been an enthusiast for almost 40 years and was dealer and heard many different systems. While SS has some strengths, they also have some draw backs.
I'll also get the triode upgrade that should help with impedance. I'm sure the sub will still come in handy after I get them to Triode master level. If not I will use it in my other system. Thank you!!
Speaking of the triode masters and impedance and SET amps.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173408)
Do you see what’s going on between 30 and 40 Hz? That’s a SET nightmare. What effect do you think that peak between 1KHz and 1100 Hz has on your 2A3 amp?
Any virtues you think your amps have with your speakers are nothing compared to what a good SS can do. Over the past 20 years I’ve owned a variety of SET amps, and under the right conditions they can sound extraordinary, but usually involves a very simple speaker with a very easy load.
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I thought the Triode Master is supposed to improve the impedance mismatch issue?
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Prior to the M3ts I had another pair of speakers, not as efficient or as extended in the bottom end but arguably better than my Spatial's in some respects. Note the impedance curve below.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173457)
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Rythmik or GR-R Rythmik DIY.
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Rythmik or GR-R Rythmik DIY.
QFT! The OB Servo subs match OB speakers better than anything else out there.
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I would get Danny's version of the Rythmik OB servo sub. They are fast and play deep. Two would even be better.
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Tyson, QFT subs????????
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Tyson, QFT subs????????
QFT is an expression of agreement and support, where the user stands behind you and one of your statements.
Best,
Anand.
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Rythmik or GR-R Rythmik DIY.
+1 if your handy. If not Rythmic or used Carver Sunfire. Both are fast, and deep with excellent tonality.
charles
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I thought the Triode Master is supposed to improve the impedance mismatch issue?
Well I guess you could say compared to the M3ts, it does look like an improvement. However there is still a couple of high impedance swings, one in excess of 100Ω ... so yeah, this isn't a SET friendly load.
As you can see from the second chart, my previous speakers did not present what you'd call an ideal load for a SET either, but at least the swings were contained to 19Ω and thus my amp was able to cope with it much better.
By the time I logged my first 100 hours on the Spatial's, it was clear that as much as I loved my SET, it would never mate well with the M3ts. This became so painfully obvious when I substituted a very inexpensive Class D amp for the SET. The cheap chip amp blew the SET out of the water; not merely in low frequency / bass performance ... but before I mention those other attributes, yes I'm talking about a massive off the charts improvement bass, both in quality and quantity. So regardless of whatever gains you think you might make with a better sub, you still have an issue in the midrange that no amount of bass augmentation can fix.
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I'm using a pair of Rythmik F12SE with my Spatial M4 Turbos. Seems to mate well enough that I haven't bothered trying any other subs. When I was ordering the subs, I inquired about the F12 vs. F12G, but was steered toward the F12. Speakers are powered by a Line Magnetic LM-518IA.
Kevin T
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Well I guess you could say compared to the M3ts, it does look like an improvement. However there is still a couple of high impedance swings, one in excess of 100Ω ... so yeah, this isn't a SET friendly load.
As you can see from the second chart, my previous speakers did not present what you'd call an ideal load for a SET either, but at least the swings were contained to 19Ω and thus my amp was able to cope with it much better.
By the time I logged my first 100 hours on the Spatial's, it was clear that as much as I loved my SET, it would never mate well with the M3ts. This became so painfully obvious when I substituted a very inexpensive Class D amp for the SET. The cheap chip amp blew the SET out of the water; not merely in low frequency / bass performance ... but before I mention those other attributes, yes I'm talking about a massive off the charts improvement bass, both in quality and quantity. So regardless of whatever gains you think you might make with a better sub, you still have an issue in the midrange that no amount of bass augmentation can fix.
Would you think the following amp could mate well with my speakers? Thank you for your feedback!
http://www.jolida.com/product/jd-1000-brc
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Would you think the following amp could mate well with my speakers? Thank you for your feedback!
I'm sure it's a fine amp, as to how well it will mate with your speakers, I do not know.
However I have an amp that surprised me, especially in conjunction with the Spatial's. I am no longer using it and you can have it free, no strings attached, as long as you are willing to cover half the shipping. All I ask in return is that you comment on how it compares to your SET. Deal?
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I should add that amp I'm offering to you for free displaced this...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173535)
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The M3 Turbo S is never going to have the "bass sound" you were used to with a Transmission Line speaker. Different philosophy and different sound. Even with subs you won't get the same sound you got with TL speakers and a TL sub and I owned the same sub as you at one point. So pick an amp you like with the speakers for the majority of the frequency range and then buy a pair of sealed subs to fill in the bottom. If the Jolida gives you that then pick up a pair of Rythmik subs and run them from the speaker level inputs. I have tried my M3 Turbo S's and now Triode Master's with over a half dozen amp including tube, Class A/B and Class D and the best match I found was the Nuprime ST-10 at $1500. With any of the amps in my Family Room the subs were still needed. I started with a pair of ACI Force XL's and then moved to the Rythmik subs. But like Wind Chaser said, in all but the smallest rooms, you will get the "tone" you may be looking for with low powered tubes but that will be about it. Those types of amps work best with speakers like Omega and Avantgarde and a select few others.
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Wow, awesome offer. So nice to see. This world needs more acts of kindness.
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I'm sure it's a fine amp, as to how well it will mate with your speakers, I do not know.
However I have an amp that surprised me, especially in conjunction with the Spatial's. I am no longer using it and you can have it free, no strings attached, as long as you are willing to cover half the shipping. All I ask in return is that you comment on how it compares to your SET. Deal?
Deal! I will be honest in my review.
Note - I just saw this message. Pretty amazing offer. I will private message you.
Happy new year!
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I'm sure it's a fine amp, as to how well it will mate with your speakers, I do not know.
However I have an amp that surprised me, especially in conjunction with the Spatial's. I am no longer using it and you can have it free, no strings attached, as long as you are willing to cover half the shipping. All I ask in return is that you comment on how it compares to your SET. Deal?
Helluva deal, appreciate that he’s just trying to help people get into better Audio.
But I would agree that the M3Triode masters, even though they are more tube friendly, still need some growling from SS or Class D amps to get the best overall effect.
I have the M3TMs, and even with the PrimaLuna Dialogue HP Tube Integrated with an octet of KT88s, the low end was lacking. I’ve never been a Class D fan, though the tech has certainly improved, and Clayton himself recommended the Class D NuPrimes, Red Dragons as solid performers. And the Vinnie Rossi LIO is a tube/ultracapacitator hybrid, and touted/shown with the M3TMs at most of the trad shows that Clayton attends. So for me personally, I’m looking at a tube/SS system for my M3TMs.
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Any updates on the deal, the amp and how it sounds?
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I bought pair of Desktop Cherries with a 60v PSU and would like to share my observations. First off, I will share the components in my system.
MAC Book Pro laptop (2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 gb ram, 500gb SSD) with a wire world USB cable, Exogal Comet with Outboard PSU, custom made tube preamp with custom outboard power supply, Spatial M3 Turbo S, SVS 4000SB sub, Audio Envy Cables.
The Cherries monos replaced my custom made 2a3 SET amp that I was very happy with.
So, why try Class D?
I posted on the spatial audio circle and was asking the groups what subs mate well with the M3 Turbo S speakers. I shared that I had a SET amp with the Spatials and out of nowhere "Wind Chaser" "butted in" and dared to tell me that my SET wasn't a good match with my Spatials and with the right amp I might not need a sub.
How dare he?
He went on to say that he had a SET that he loved and that these amps are a mismatch with the Spatial and that there is a hole in the bass freq that really impacts the low end. He was so adamant that he issued me a challenge. He said that he would send me a class D amp with no cost and no strings attached. I just pay the $30 for shipping. No brainer. I took him up on it. Note, I used to partner with Steve Fischer who owned a boutique audio store in Michigan in the middle 90's (Soundquest Audio) and we carried one of the first digital amps from Spectron. At the time, I thought it was very quick, tight bass great air, etc. I didn't find it as musical as I preferred though. So, it was the last time I listened to class D until I met Wind Chaser.
I received the ~$150 amp and used the ground loop wires he sent that needed to be placed in line with the negative speaker terminal and off I went to listen. I immediately noticed it was cleaner and quieter than my SET. I heard some notes in the music I had never heard before. Interesting...For so little money, it had me thinking. It was impressive and so good I called Wind Chaser and asked him if you gave this amp away, what are you using now? He indicated that he was using Digital Amplifier Company's Cherrie Desktop Mono Blocks. How much better could they be? Hmmm. They were obviously more money that this entry level amp, but still very reasonable. Within a day, I reached out to Tommy and started a dialog. Before long, I ordered a set on mono blocks and was still a little concerned that the musicality of the amp still might not be near what my SET might provide. I knew it would quick, detailed, dynamic, etc. But would it have the timbre of the SET that I fell so in love with. The entry level amp was close in timbre but still not there to my ears.
Knowing my order was on the way, I switched back to my SET until my new amps arrived. While I was expecting the sound to be not as quick, I was expecting the timbre to be magical. I immediately started noticing the sound to be a bit colored; I already knew the SET was a bit rolled off at the top, so no surprise there. Hmm, the shootout will start any day. What will I really like best?
The new Cherries came in and I hooked them up.
On the first two notes, my wife immediately said: OMG these are a lot cleaner than your other amps. They were so quiet it was a bit freaky. Understand that I have had and auditioned many many amps in my time. The Blacks are way Black with this amp! The image opened up so wide and deep that it sounded like a different system. The height of the image was noticeably different as well. I got my reference recording speaker set up disc and tweaked placement and i was ready to listen. I would say that I was somewhat conflicted. I don't think my brain and thousands of hours of listening processed what I was hearing as quickly as other changes I have made.
While I was thinking I was missing some midrange bloom I also noticed a bite on the horns section that I had never heard before. Listening to Holly Cole's Temptation album and in particular, Little Boy Blue, I was captured by the bite of the horns. I was transported in the studio when it was being recorded. I knew in the back of my mind that the SET was rolled off and I had been missing the upper frequencies. Tommy's amp is billed at reproducing up to 100K. The Cherries had so much air and space between the notes it was treat to appreciate it. I heard no evidence of any unnaturalness in the higher frequencies. Just cymbals and triangles that are clean and fully extended. No concern with any sibilance with Female voices. I recently downloaded Diana Krall's "Turn up the Quiet" at 24/192K. Want a treat? Listen to the tracks "Sway" and the next track "No Moon At All". The combination of acoustic guitars, bass, & strings coupled with Krall's sultry voice shows off what these amps do best. The space around the guitar, the plucking and tone of the double bass, the presence of Diana's breathing and singing highlights her phrasing and her magic. When the strings come in, the goose bumps appear and my attention was captured waiting for the next note. I shifted and began listening to a Male Voice. An older, simple but beautiful song from Neil Diamond- Stones. Guitars and percussion were right on and his baritone voice never better.
Janis Ian - "Breaking Silence" was next and this is one of the better recordings I have in my collection. Beautifullly crafted songs with outstanding musicians- this collection of songs are so well recorded. I can't say I have ever heard a pop/rock album with dynamics this impressive. If you haven't heard it, you haven't heard what your system is capable of. Supertramp: Crime of the Century, Pink Floyd ? Its right up there. I talked to Janis's office and ordered a couple CD's and had Janis sign one of the copies. Just 16/44 ripped files and the recording is so good, you would think its the master tapes. The Cherrie's with it dynamic capabilities are the perfect match. I have heard this CD with so many fantastic amps and speakers- I can't say that I heave heard it any better than last night.
After listening for four straight hours and throughly enjoying every minute of it, my appreciate goes out to Tommy and the Digital Amplifier Company for an amazing product especially at its price point. I have never heard an amp this good for anything close to this price. It has it all!
As important is that Tommy is about as nice as you can find as an owner and customer service is outstanding.
I also want to say thank you to the Wind Chaser for opening my eyes to the current level of Class D!
I just received the DAC DAC and should be hooking it up tonight to see what it has in store. The Exogal is a very strong DAC and is very musical.
I'll provide the comparison feedback later this week.
Cheers.
Sumo
Modify message
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Interesting comments regarding the M3TMs SET amps. I thought they were designed specifically for tube amps. I'm still fairly new to this hobby but recently replaced my Cronos Magnum II with a Line Magnetic 508ia SET integrated and it sounds amazing playing just about everything. Huge soundstage and more slam than the Cronos, much cleaner in the mids and the tone is gorgeous. The bass sounds good too, especially in any recording that is properly mastered. Is anyone else running an LM amp with the M3TMs?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176703)
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I do not have the triode masters...
I love my single ended amp, but there is a window into the
music that I didn’t have until I got my Cherries.
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That's funny because I feel the same way about switching to LM508. :) I'm just trying to understand why the SETs are not a good fit for the M3TMS. Is it a power issue? The LM is 48 watts per channel which I understand is pretty high for a SET.
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I have a Spatial M3 Turbo S, so I couldn't comment on how well your amp works on a pair of Triode Masters.
I can tell you I don't miss tubes at all now that I have the Cherry Mono Blocks.
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sumoking,
Am really interested to hear your comparisons with the DAC DAC compared to the Exogal Comet (which I also currently have with the outboard PSU).
I am driving the M3TS with the Mivera Icepower 1200AS module amp, no preamp. I also have a Line Magnetic 216ia amp as well, which I thought was a large step up from the NuPrime monoblock STA-9s, mainly in terms of tonality and fullness of sound with good dimensionality. The Icepower is a different beast that sounds more “complete” top to bottom to my ears than the LM, to the point where I don’t really think I need a sub to pair with the Spatials. It is THAT good to my ears.
-dave
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Note I got the sub before I got the Cherries. It goes down to like 18hz and my spatials will never go that low
With any amp. I have always liked to hear the full spectrum of sound, so it wasn’t a decision based on the sound of any amp. When Wind Chaser brought up that a digital amp will improve your system so you don’t
Need a sub, I disregarded that since I already knew I wanted the Last octave.
I considered the Mivera, but I liked that Tommy designs his own boards for the last 20 years. In the other model if a board is recalled it would be a hassle to deal with.
That said, I’m sure your amp sounds great!
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I considered the Mivera, but I liked that Tommy designs his own boards for the last 20 years. In the other model if a board is recalled it would be a hassle to deal with.
Sumo - I did just the opposite. The main reason I bought the Mivera amp was the Icepower module. Everything well designed after they spent $$$$$ of R&D over many years to develop it. Bulletproof and excellent specs. And a 10 year warranty. I am very happy :thumb:
gab
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So I recently moved and had nowhere else to put my system other than this living room which opens up into a dining area space on the left side. It's a fairly larger space than what I had before so I have some flexibility on moving the speakers a bit further out and apart. Current arrangement (as shown in the pic) is needed to keep them out of the way so that the wife deems it "acceptable". 8)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180795)
I definitely need a sub to fill in the lower range. Rythmik subs were suggested earlier and I would rather have a sealed box sub to be more discrete about putting yet another piece of gear into this space. Any other recommended subs that folks have in their systems currently which integrate well? Would be able to use the Exogal Comet's outputs (they have both balanced and single ended) simultaneously so I can connect one of them to a sub as well.
-dave
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Yes, a sub placed squarely into the fireplace would be awesome - infinite baffle supreme. :D
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Yes, a sub placed squarely into the fireplace would be awesome - infinite baffle supreme. :D
You're like READING MY MIND JerryM! My wife actually wants to put a gas fireplace insert there (she's not keen on wood-burning ones) but I mentioned I could use that space to shove audio equipment more discreetly into. She wasn't having any of that though. :nono:
A sub into the fireplace isn't a bad idea though. But even getting it into the center in front of the fireplace, is that even a consideration?
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What's going on there where the piano seems like it might meet the wall? That might be a great space.
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Dave,
The big advantage of the Rythmic Servo subs either sealed or OB is that they are fast and can keep up with your speakers. I don't think you will find a faster sub than the servos.
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What's going on there where the piano seems like it might meet the wall? That might be a great space.
Piano is set in the corner of the living room. Might be a good corner to put a sub at but the wife would definitely find issue with it.
The big advantage of the Rythmic Servo subs either sealed or OB is that they are fast and can keep up with your speakers. I don't think you will find a faster sub than the servos.
Will have to look into these then Greg, knowing you run OBs in your own system and in a fairly large space from what I’ve read as well.
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Agreed, the Rythmik subs are by far the best option for high end OB speakers.
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I've been running a pair of F12G's with my M3 Turbo S and now M3 TM's for a year now and they are a great match. They replaced ACI Force XL's. My room is 24'x28'x10' with a six foot opening into the Kitchen/Breakfast Room area. Tuck them just to the rear and inside of the M3's.
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I run a Zu Audio Undertone single sub b/w my M4 Triode Masters..
It is sealed, not portex, kind of a monster in terms of sound projection.
Goes down th 14hz i believe. But Im not a big sub kinda guy, so one sub works for me.
Plus, i only have room for one sub, 13x19ft room
There has been a fair bit of discussion on subs previously
in the Spatial thread thst you may want to check out
Best
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I would think this one would integrate best with M3 Turbo S and M3 Triode Master?
http://www.spatialaudio.us/m-force-bass (http://www.spatialaudio.us/m-force-bass)
Vinnie
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Vinnie
That might be true but not necessarily going to work in SF Dude's room as set up and certainly wouldn't pass the WAF test in a Living Room/ Family Room environment.
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So I recently moved and had nowhere else to put my system other than this living room which opens up into a dining area space on the left side. It's a fairly larger space than what I had before so I have some flexibility on moving the speakers a bit further out and apart. Current arrangement (as shown in the pic) is needed to keep them out of the way so that the wife deems it "acceptable". 8)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=180795)
I definitely need a sub to fill in the lower range. Rythmik subs were suggested earlier and I would rather have a sealed box sub to be more discrete about putting yet another piece of gear into this space. Any other recommended subs that folks have in their systems currently which integrate well? Would be able to use the Exogal Comet's outputs (they have both balanced and single ended) simultaneously so I can connect one of them to a sub as well.
-dave
Dave, Rhythmik makes sealed subs. So does SVS.
If you are looking for a smaller sub with good tight, fast and musical bass, consider a Martin Logan Dynamo 700. They are sealed. I use 2 Original Dynamo's (which were the first dynamo's built by ML and they are basically the 700 with less power) with my Magnepan speakers. They integrate seamlessly and keep up with the Maggies. I did have a pair of Spatial M3 Turbo's to audition for a few days and the subs worked great with them. They do not go down as deep as larger subs but they have great WAF and they are very fast. They fill in to about 25db. If you want lower bass then you will need to go larger. They can be used front or down firing. I have heard much more expensive subs that are not as fast or musical. However, they won't pressurize the room as much as a larger sub.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_839DY700B/MartinLogan-Dynamo-700W.html?tp=187&awcp=1t1&awcr=196735332397&awdv=c&awkw=%2bmartin+%2blogan+%2bdynamo+%
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I would think this one would integrate best with M3 Turbo S and M3 Triode Master?
http://www.spatialaudio.us/m-force-bass (http://www.spatialaudio.us/m-force-bass)
The wife would kill me with those, for sure. I did try to envision them but definitely not possible.
If you are looking for a smaller sub with good tight, fast and musical bass, consider a Martin Logan Dynamo 700. They are sealed. I use 2 Original Dynamo's (which were the first dynamo's built by ML and they are basically the 700 with less power) with my Magnepan speakers. They integrate seamlessly and keep up with the Maggies. I did have a pair of Spatial M3 Turbo's to audition for a few days and the subs worked great with them. They do not go down as deep as larger subs but they have great WAF and they are very fast. They fill in to about 25db. If you want lower bass then you will need to go larger. They can be used front or down firing. I have heard much more expensive subs that are not as fast or musical. However, they won't pressurize the room as much as a larger sub.
Thanks Greyhound Fan. Will look a little more into those as well given the integration with their electrostatics is what they were designed for to begin with. But looks like the Dynamo doesn't have XLR inputs, which is probably what I need at this point with my gear.
I've been running a pair of F12G's with my M3 Turbo S and now M3 TM's for a year now and they are a great match. They replaced ACI Force XL's. My room is 24'x28'x10' with a six foot opening into the Kitchen/Breakfast Room area. Tuck them just to the rear and inside of the M3's.
Jack, I was planning to get one sub to begin with and put it in the center (smack in front of the fireplace) but not sure if the open fireplace behind it would be problematic or not.
-dave
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I would block the opening off. You could even order a panel from one of the companies like GIK to do it with.
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The wife would kill me with those, for sure. I did try to envision them but definitely not possible.
Thanks Greyhound Fan. Will look a little more into those as well given the integration with their electrostatics is what they were designed for to begin with. But looks like the Dynamo doesn't have XLR inputs, which is probably what I need at this point with my gear.
Jack, I was planning to get one sub to begin with and put it in the center (smack in front of the fireplace) but not sure if the open fireplace behind it would be problematic or not.
-dave
Dave, I use all XLR's for my gear except for the subs. I use an RCA to XLR adapter with good quality IC's. It works great. You don't need expensive XLR adapters as I have a pair of expensive Cardas Adapters which sound no better than cheap $30 ones. As far as the sound, we are talking about a freq. range from 20db to maybe 40db depending upon your preference. XLR's won't make a difference.
On last thing to keep in mind, The ML subs come with a Wireless Transmitter so you can place them any where in the room. There is also a slightly larger Dynamo 1000 that goes deeper with more power.
Larry
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I would block the opening off. You could even order a panel from one of the companies like GIK to do it with.
How about putting the sub in the fireplace itself and just block/seal the top part of the fireplace?
I said that OB Rythmik is the way to go in a prior post, but if OB is not an option then a sealed Rythmik is the next best option. I've heard most of the subs out there and the servo implementation that Rythmik uses is just better than anything else. I rarely make blanket statements, but in this case it's warranted. I'm not saying that there aren't excellent subs from other companies (there are), merely that Rythmik is better.
Well, let me qualify that statement. Rythmik is NOT a class leader when it comes to producing max SPL at 20hz. There's other options (especially companies like SVS) that will do ultra deep bass louder. Where Rythmik IS the class leader is power, punch, clarity and SPEED for 25hz to 200hz. That's where they leave pretty much everything else in the dust. IME.
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If space is a concern which it appears to be, I'd seriously look at the Rythmik F8.
One or two of them might be ideal.
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F8.html (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F8.html)
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Hello All,
I’m about to pull the trigger on a sub for my M3 Turbo’s. I can easily see the advantage of getting an OB sub; the bass should really meld well with the OB speakers. Plus, I really like the boxless sound the M3’s- my room was problematic in the bass region. No more with the Spatials.
The problem is, domestically, I really don’t have the space to place another OB speaker out from the wall. I need a sub that can be tucked into a corner situation. I can probably get away with 24” from either corner wall at most.
I ALSO don’t want to muck up the good thing I’ve got going on with the OB speaker bass. I could likely live with what I have now for bass; this is just a thought about getting that last bit of nirvana.
My thought is a sealed sub with a relatively small driver- 8 or 10 inch. Room size is about 12x16 with large openings to other rooms.
I would like to hear suggestions, as well as from those that added a sub and were disappointed in the result.
Thanks.
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I alternate with my M4's a Vandersteen 2w with diy Ripole (ob) subwoofers. The vandersteen really blends well with the Spatials. You need however to have a preamplifier though it is needed for the hp filter, which is inserted at line level. Your Spatials work then from 85 hz up. Because the Vandersteen is a sealed box and the 3 drivers are directed downward in a slot loaded configuration it works pretty well, very undirectional. The main advantage of using the Ripoles is thatbI have 2 and thus stereo subwoofers, The V. go lower though.