[Bigfishhk]

This may be too much too ask for but here goes..

I would like to enter the tube amp world AND I would like to have bass management so that I can X over Mains to Sub at 80hz. Right now I am running Mains full band.

I am on a budget of around $1500 so will obviously be looking at used components as well. May need to post this in Cheap and Cheerful but am hoping to hear from Salk owners who may have done something similar.

Does anyone have any recommendation for component(s) to do this that would match the ST's? (can be HYBRID tube/SS)

thanks

TOm

My current set up :
SONG TOWERS standard
AMP- Krell KAV 400xi INT (I also have an Anthem 225 integrated. I will sell one of them)
DAC- Eastern Elec minimax plus (tube or solid state). I use it on Tube setting.
Rythmik F12 Sub.
NAD CD player/ SQ Box touch

[Nuance]

Would a miniDSP unit do the trick for bass management?  It'll allow you to cross over to the F12 sub, and you can even apply parametric EQ to the subwoofer.  It's cheap too!

As for a tube amp, I'll let those that like the results of said design comment on that one.

[BobRex]

Would a miniDSP unit do the trick for bass management?  It'll allow you to cross over to the F12 sub, and you can even apply parametric EQ to the subwoofer.  It's cheap too!

As for a tube amp, I'll let those that like the results of said design comment on that one.

Don't the miniDSPs add noticable delay to the signal (in the range of 10-20 milliseconds)?  The units I investigated (going back as far as the SMS-1) did, so I couldn't use them for just bass management.  You'd need to run the full signal through the unit and then split after the processing.  Since I'm mostly analog, that didn't cut it.

[Austin08]

You maywant to look at Oppo 105. you can run the xlr of the Oppo to your integrate or future tube amp and the sub out to your Rythmik.  (select small Front + sub in Oppo speaker s/u page).

Yes, the EE dac ”maybe better” but IMO, the Oppo dac is not that bad either.  and on the plus side you gain a preamp, a blu ray, sacd player and the most importance is the bass managerment systemat a very afordable price. And yes, you will have tube and you have a full range system

[Bigfishhk]

You maywant to look at Oppo 105. you can run the xlr of the Oppo to your integrate or future tube amp and the sub out to your Rythmik.  (select small Front + sub in Oppo speaker s/u page).

Yes, the EE dac ”maybe better” but IMO, the Oppo dac is not that bad either.  and on the plus side you gain a preamp, a blu ray, sacd player and the most importance is the bass managerment systemat a very afordable price. And yes, you will have tube and you have a full range system

Thsi looks interesting. So this OPPO 105 is a pre amp as well as DAC, SACD, blu ray, etc? so all I need is to get the tube power amp? ((possibly also sell the DAC I have to cover costs)

Could I run my SB Touch thru the Oppo DAC ?

thanks.
Tom

[Austin08]

Yes, it is almost a all in one player. While I find it is a very natural preamp, its out put is higher than what I use to see in a normal preamp. This will not be a problem if you are not doing a lot of listening late at night.

The 105 has usb, coaxial, optical, hdmi input and wireless streaming. It can play almost all files types.

[Bigfishhk]

Yes, it is almost a all in one player. While I find it is a very natural preamp, its out put is higher than what I use to see in a normal preamp. This will not be a problem if you are not doing a lot of listening late at night.

 The 105 has usb, coaxial, optical, hdmi input and wireless streaming. It can play almost all files types.

Amazing piece of gear... so if used as a pre amp, where is the volume control if it's fed to a power amp?

thanks
tom

[owlsalum1]

Just for clarification Bigfishhk before I venture an amp recommendation, are you asking about a tube integrated, tube separates (pre/power) or just a tube power amp? Given your budget, the flavor of tube 'amp' you're after makes a significant difference in what might be in play.

[ratso]

right, using the oppo as a preamp might work but why would you do it? you can easily get several preamps that do bass management. the emotiva preamp and the parasound P7 and a tube amp would do it, and you could stick within your budget depending on what amp you get.

[srb]

Amazing piece of gear... so if used as a pre amp, where is the volume control if it's fed to a power amp?

The volume is controled from the Oppo remote and uses the digital volume control function of the ESS Sabre 32 DAC chips.
 
http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/UserFiles/Docs/PDF/BDP-105EU%20Direct%20Power%20Amplifier%20Connection%20V2.pdf
 
Steve

[Bigfishhk]

right, using the oppo as a preamp might work but why would you do it? you can easily get several preamps that do bass management. the emotiva preamp and the parasound P7 and a tube amp would do it, and you could stick within your budget depending on what amp you get.

Intrigued by the Oppo but completely open to suggestions. I will also look at the Emotiva and parasound you mention. Any particular Emotiva pre amp?

tx

Tom

[Bigfishhk]

Just for clarification Bigfishhk before I venture an amp recommendation, are you asking about a tube integrated, tube separates (pre/power) or just a tube power amp? Given your budget, the flavor of tube 'amp' you're after makes a significant difference in what might be in play.

I am open to suggestions really whether separates or integrated - so long as I can do bass management as well have a tube element.   I am guessing that a pre amp with bass management plus a tube amp would be more likely than a tube integrated amp that has bass management (if they exist)

 or a hybrid pre amp with bass management plus a SS amp would be interesting.

In my ignorance I thought only processors had bass management, not pre amps.

I posted on Salk thread hoping that someone else with ST's has a similar 2.1 set up that they are working with.

[Bigfishhk]

The volume is controled from the Oppo remote and uses the digital volume control function of the ESS Sabre 32 DAC chips.
 
http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/UserFiles/Docs/PDF/BDP-105EU%20Direct%20Power%20Amplifier%20Connection%20V2.pdf
 
Steve

Thanks for the info re remote volume control.   Curious why Austin08 advises:
"its out put is higher than what I use to see in a normal preamp. This will not be a problem if you are not doing a lot of listening late at night. "

Surely I can just use the remote to turn down the volume when listening late at night ? (which is the only time I get to do so in a house full of loud young toddlers!)
Tom

[srb]

Thanks for the info re remote volume control.   Curious why Austin08 advises:
"its out put is higher than what I use to see in a normal preamp. This will not be a problem if you are not doing a lot of listening late at night. "

Not exactly sure if this is what he means, but if you are playing 24-bit music, with a 32-bit digital volume control you would have 8 bits or 48dB of possible attenuation.  Any further attenuation will affect the dynamic range, and if the analog output is fairly high, you may not have enough available attenuation for very low level listening without affecting dynamic range.
 
Steve

[owlsalum1]

Gotcha Bigfishhk, since you want tube sweetness plus bass management my view is your best bet is a SS pre/processor and a tube power amp. I'll let the members better versed on the HT side weigh in on the pre/processor but as a hard-code music high ender I know amplification like the back of my hand.

You're going to want a well built, non-finicky easy to maintain tube amp.

So I have two recommendations. The first might push your budget a tad, but not too much. I'm a big fan of Rogue Audio. I'd recommend a Rogue Audio Atlas in a heart-beat. At $1495 retail (new!) and rated at 55W/ch my belief is you aren't going to find a better buy for beautifully built practical stereo tube amp on the market right now. My opinion.

My 2nd recommendation I'd just love to see someone do. Score a Dynaco ST-70 on the used market. Heck, as I type there is a 8/10 unit on Audiogon looking for a good home. Then either send it to Frank VanAlstine for his ST-70 rebuild. Or if you feel comfortable with a soldering iron buy Frank's ST-70 rebuild kit and DYI. That option gets you an absolutely classic tube amp plus rebuild to avahifi standard for UNDER $1500. And it'd be a fun project to boot!

[JoshK]

How about old school approach and plug the ports of the STs and let them roll off naturally.  Shouldn't be too far off what your aiming for (could maybe measure) and then roll the subs in via Y-adapators or however you typically hook up the Rhythmics.

[Bigfishhk]

Gotcha Bigfishhk, since you want tube sweetness plus bass management my view is your best bet is a SS pre/processor and a tube power amp. I'll let the members better versed on the HT side weigh in on the pre/processor but as a hard-code music high ender I know amplification like the back of my hand.

Thanks for the recommendations. Will look at them and hope more suggestions for pre/processor come my way.
thanks
Tom

[Nuance]

Don't the miniDSPs add noticable delay to the signal (in the range of 10-20 milliseconds)?  The units I investigated (going back as far as the SMS-1) did, so I couldn't use them for just bass management.  You'd need to run the full signal through the unit and then split after the processing.  Since I'm mostly analog, that didn't cut it.

I have no idea, actually.  I know some fellas that use them and like them, but I honestly don't know if they add delay.

I'd like to add the Parasound 2100 preamp to the list of options.  It has a high pass and low pass, bass management and HT bypass.  Another option is to look into the FMODs, which roll off the speaker's response at a specific frequency.  They don't act as a crossover, but more like a crossover simulator.  If the speakers start rolling off at say 70Hz at a 12dB slope, that'll help them blend with a subwoofer.

http://www.parts-express.com/term/fmod?srch=fmod

[ricardojoa]

You can go with emo or parasound for analog bass management but make sure you have enough room for sub placement for best integration. Many times, delay applies to the front, so the delay/phase adjustment on the sub doesnt help much unless you hzve the closer to you.U think there is a benifit with the mini dsp as helps delay the front and i have parametic eq which further smoothin things out.

[Kinger]

I've gone the full tube route with the ST's and a sub.  Right now I'm using a PrimaLuna P5 amp with a Van Alstine T8 pre, a SMS-1 and a Rythmik F12 sub.  Using FMOD's to handle bass management from the pre to the amp and then my second set of outputs on the T8 goes directly to the SMS-1 where it then sends the EQ'd low end to the sub.  I've used this setup with both a SS amp (AVA 240) and now the Primaluna without much trouble. (Thanks goes to both TJHUB and Nuance for helping me get here.)

Frankly, I'm torn on whether I'll keep the PL or not.  While I love pretty much everything about the presentation of tubes, there is a change to the bass that I'm not sure I like.  No free lunch either way I guess