AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: mkane on 11 Jan 2019, 09:11 pm
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Any drawbacks mounting these directly to the base of the baffle. thanks
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Most just mount them to the top of the base behind the lower woofer
jay
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Interesting location. BTW, both Wedgies are glued and resting in a warm room. It's all I can do to not put the drivers/crossovers in and fire these up. Just too much to undo. Weather here is wet and damp. Not a good scenario fo epoxy finishing. I'll give one of the amp boxes a shot indoors and see if we can stand the odor.
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I'm assuming they went together well ?
Neiter the amp boxes nor the Wedgie cabs need much clamping preasure, just enough to snug everything up and let the glue set off.
Enjoy man
jay
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Without a hitch and I thank you. No seams here.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188917)
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Yes, they were a nice fit when I assembled them on the bench before packing. that Medex won't shrink/swell near as much as MDF either.
Looks like you did a great job of glue up..... just wait till you hear the imaging :thumb:
Keep us posted
jay
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used lots of glue and it's a SOB to sand. resisting the urge to assemble these. the H frames stepped it up a notch for sure. Lp sound different in a way. 66-year-old ears sound young again
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I have another question concerning the crossover network. After it's built I have 2 sets of + & - wires per set. Do I now tie these together and connect them to my amp? thanks
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Post a picture of what you are talking about. That way there willnot be any misunderstandings.
I think I understand what you are asking. If I’m correct the answer would be yes, both the positivewire from the woofer circuit and the positive fromthe tweeter circuit are twisted together and connected to a red female tube connectoe. The negative wires are treated the same except they are connected to a white female tube connector.
Mike
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Thanks Mike. I'll do a mock up and post a pic.
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Heres Danny's drawing. Is there a way to blend these together or do I built them separately
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188940)
and tie + with + etc?
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I meant a picture of your built crossover. If you run separate positive and negative wires for each circuit then what I siad about conecting them together is correct.
If you don’t mind, please delete the picture of the crossover schematic. Danny doesn’t mind us posting pictures of the laid out parts or crossover because parts values can’t be determined. The schematici is a different story. The values are shown. This information is his intellectual property.
Mike
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Thanks Mike. I'll build up a crossover and post another pic, values down
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Heres Danny's drawing. Is there a way to blend these together or do I built them separately
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188940)
and tie + with + etc?
If the right side is the input side then you have the tweeter circuit flipped.
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Here are some pics of my Wedgie's crossover.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188945)
This ended up being a little long and extended over the back edge of the base.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188946)
Here is a more compact layout that does not stick out past the base
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188948)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188950)
There are pictures of other Wedgie coroosver builds in other threads. Some folks made real slick crossovers by making the crossover board thick, routing out channels and doing the wiring on the underside.
Mike
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Thanks for the pics i need a bigger piece of wood. hope this isn't too hard to follow. Why
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188956)
do I have 3 inductors?
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188957)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188958)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188959)
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Yes, the new design has an updated netwrk so yo do have 2 inductors in the tweeter /high pass leg and one inthe low pass leg.
Values have changed as well so if yo see any in the photos, don't worry, Danny has sent you the updated version
Also note, when you physically connect the + / - leads to the tweeter, they are conected out of phase ( pos wire to neg tweeter term, neg wire to pos tweeter term)
jay
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Thanks, fellas. Had company and got sidetracked. Been final sanding wedgies getting ready for epoxy or drivers whichever comes first. I need a bigger piece of wood for the crossovers so it explains itself a bit more.
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Is this a workable setup? thx
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189038)
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Is this a workable setup? thx
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189038)
Oh, no, no, no... don't do that. You just degraded the signal so badly with all of those connectors that you might as well have just put the cheap budget parts in there. Get rid of all of that. Go to this thread and follow the example of how to assemble them: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83325.0
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:lol: figured as much. thanks
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keep it simple stupid
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189045)
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Looks correct.
And use the supplied wire. It is four 9's pure Copper that is solid core and jacketed in polyethylene. It's really good.
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thanks and wired
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189054)
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That will work.
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Excellent. Low-level imaging is excellent and my preference volume wise. Have 1 album side played so far. Cardinal sin to put these together but until I rip the carpet out of our hobby room so I can epoxy these inside, no harm. Cudos Danny, WAF factor very high. Her first words, awesome.
BTW, I tweaked the frame installing the first 3" woofer not having it seated properly. I'll be needing a replacement when we return.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189083)
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Thoughts on copper foil inductors? thx
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Thoughts on copper foil inductors? thx
Subtle improvement in the mid-range easily noticed on high end gear, and not so much with mid-fi level or entry level gear.
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Thanks. I left the first crossovers intact with the original parts just in case, and through this together with new parts. Nothing boutique, and there is a noticeable difference. I consider my gear a step above mid fi, using a HK Citation II on the Wedgies, Herron phono pre/SUT and various decks/cartridges.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189535)
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Thanks. I left the first crossovers intact with the original parts just in case, and through this together with new parts. Nothing boutique, and there is a noticeable difference. I consider my gear a step above mid fi, using a HK Citation II on the Wedgies, Herron phono pre/SUT and various decks/cartridges.
The foil inductors are nice, but the Sonicaps on the original crossover are much higher quality than the Erse caps.
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Danny, I'll make the switch when I take these apart for finishing. thanks
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Add some Platinum by-pass caps to the Sonicaps. At first I didn’t use them but now I put them on all my speakers, including the Wedgies
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tweeters & mid's? Any particular size? http://www.soniccraft.com/index.php/sonicap-platinum-c-301_49_52
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Danny recommends Platinums in the tweeter circuit and Gen IIs in the Woofer circuit. I put Platinums in both but then I don’t always listen🙂
PM Danny and he will tell the values you need for each circuit
Mike
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My search revealed that 1/100th of the original value is a good starting point and quality should be one up.
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I use the Gortz Alpha Core foil inductors on the networks now, to me they are a relatively inexpensive upgrade.
We too have been using the Sonicap Platinums as bypass caps on the high pass (tweeter) cap, if you can get them (might be sold out of the .022's), a .022 or .047 uF should work fine
Have also tried the Jupiter Copper foils of the same value in the same position but prefer the Platinums there.
Have been using .1uF Jupiter Coppers on the mjdrange leg. the gen II's do work well here as well.
Another very inexpensive cap I've tried on the midrange cap is the ishay Roderstein (http://www.ns2.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_visrod.htm) . I actually really like these, don't let the cheap price fool you. they do have short leads , usually have to add length to reach around a "large" cap. I keep meaning to try them as bypass's on the high pass cap as well, just haven't done it.
You can get the Sonicaps, Jupiters and gortz inductors through Danny
jay
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Thanks guys. I have a pair of Jupiter .022 uf's
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I'm a diehard Jupiter copper fan. There's a new cap that I'm finding just as good (maybe even better) for a lot less $$, the Miflex copper caps. Sonic Craft carries them and so far they've been exceptional.
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I'm a diehard Jupiter copper fan. There's a new cap that I'm finding just as good (maybe even better) for a lot less $$, the Miflex copper caps. Sonic Craft carries them and so far they've been exceptional.
Funny timing. I just spotted those the other day and ordered a pair for HP filters for my amps. $22/pr for copper caps is a steal!
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Turn down the bass. I switched the Erse cap back to the Sonic caps Danny sent and added a Jupiter Coppe r.022uf to the tweets. What an inadvertent Cap shootout. I can feel the bass, startling. Moved the dial to 50% and may go lower.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189608)
Rolling cap could cost more than tubes.
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Turn down the bass. I switched the Erse cap back to the Sonic caps Danny sent and added a Jupiter Coppe r.022uf to the tweets. What an inadvertent Cap shootout. I can feel the bass, startling. Moved the dial to 50% and may go lower.
Rolling cap could cost more than tubes.
I rolled a bunch of caps (including getting 10uF Jupiters in my speakers), and IMO your cap combo right now is pretty close to ideal. You will get a small improvement if you change out the main caps with full sized Jupiters like I did, but it's a pretty small jump.
A bigger jump would be getting the paper/wax/copper foil inductors. I've had great wire-wound inductors and great copper foil inductors, and the wax/paper/copper foil from Jantzen is the best sounding inductor out there IME. I would spend money there rather than roll any more caps.
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were shopping
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I should point out that I'm a person that values tonal density above "speed" or ultimate transparency. If you're more of a speed and transparency guy, then the teflon based bypass caps are a good choice. Same with foil inductors - if you value air and speed, the inductors you have are fine.
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Janzen wax/foil/paper are herd to find in the US of the correct values. Mundorf also makes inductors.
We do not listen to much rock anymore if that makes a difference. I guess you could say we like transparency/speed. No coloration. Strictly analog.
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Janzen's ordered. The wait begins.
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Ever since I put in the Jantzen's into my speakers I've been thinking about why do they sound so good. I really think it's got a lot to do with damping and vibration control. Once you get them in hand, you'll see what I mean - they are like little hockey pucks, very stiff, very damped. The other thing that is better is the dielectric. Wax/paper just sounds better than plastic based dielectrics IME. Even better than teflon. No other inductor really does anything to address these areas like the Jantzen's do.
Anyway, let us know what you think, once you get them. When I special ordered mine, it' only took a couple weeks to get them in-hand.
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Also going to buy new caps so I don't have to take apart the finished crossovers and I'll be able to do back to back shootout. I'll stick with Solens. Jupiter Copper are spendy in the values I need.
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Also going to buy new caps so I don't have to take apart the finished crossovers and I'll be able to do back to back shootout. I'll stick with Solens. Jupiter Copper are spendy in the values I need.
The Sonicaps are a significant improvement over the Solen caps. And you already have them....
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I agree with Danny - Sonicaps are better than Solens.
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Sorry for the typo, I did mean Sonicaps
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Yeah, if you look at the 10uf cap, that's $500 per cap for a Jupiter copper cap. So that's $1k for both speakers. I actually did that with my speakers. But, IMO it wasn't a huge jump over the Sonicap 10uf bypassed with a Jupiter copper .22uf. Don't get me wrong, the big 10uf Jupiter sounds great, but probably not $1k great.
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Yeah, if you look at the 10uf cap, that's $500 per cap for a Jupiter copper cap. So that's $1k for both speakers. I actually did that with my speakers. But, IMO it wasn't a huge jump over the Sonicap 10uf bypassed with a Jupiter copper .22uf. Don't get me wrong, the big 10uf Jupiter sounds great, but probably not $1k great.
I agree.
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These speakers do deserve the best.
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I had originally decided to put Gen II by-pass caps in the woofer circuits of the tricked out X-LS Encore crossovers I'm building. Then I thought, "you will always wonder what you left on the table for the midrange if you do that, so go ahead and go with the Platinums". (I'm my own worst enemy at times :icon_lol:).
I couldn't find 0.1uF Platinums so I was thinking about Jupiters. Then Tyson brought up the Miflexes so I looked them up. Based on what he had to say about them, and the fact they are 1/3 the price of the Jupiter ($19 vs $63), I decided to go with them. They showed up today. These things are HUGE!! Here is a pic of a 0.1uF Sonicap Gen II next to a 0.1uF Miflex KPCU (copper).
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189747)
Another difference between them is their rating. The Sonicap is 200VDC while the Miflex is 600VDC.
Which brings up a question, is there a problem by-passing a 200VDC cap with a 600VDC cap? I wouldn't think there would be since the Platinums are 400VDC but thought I'd ask just to be sure.
Mike
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I had originally decided to put Gen II by-pass caps in the woofer circuits of the tricked out X-LS Encore crossovers I'm building. Then I thought, "you will always wonder what you left on the table for the midrange if you do that, so go ahead and go with the Platinums". (I'm my own worst enemy at times :icon_lol:).
I couldn't find 0.1uF Platinums so I was thinking about Jupiters. Then Tyson brought up the Miflexes so I looked them up. Based on what he had to say about them, and the fact they are 1/3 the price of the Jupiter ($19 vs $63), I decided to go with them. They showed up today. These things are HUGE!! Here is a pic of a 0.1uF Sonicap Gen II next to a 0.1uF Miflex KPCU (copper).
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=189747)
Another difference between them is their rating. The Sonicap is 200VDC while the Miflex is 600VDC.
Which brings up a question, is there a problem by-passing a 200VDC cap with a 600VDC cap? I wouldn't think there would be since the Platinums are 400VDC but thought I'd ask just to be sure.
Mike
No problem using the higher rated cap. They are just made out of more robust material (ie, thicker wires, etc...) in order to handle higher voltages. But they are fine in a low voltage speaker setup. "Overbuilt", in fact. But then again, IMO, over-the-top is just about right :lol:
They will take a little while to burn in. At first they will seem highly detailed and very awesome. Then they go through this muted/dark phase and you're think "WTF is the problem, why did I spend extra $$ just to have a blanket thrown over my speakers?" Push past that and you'll find that they are every bit as good as the Jupiters, in the end.
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Ordered some myself.
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I couldn't find 0.1uF Platinums so I was thinking about Jupiters. Then Tyson brought up the Miflexes so I looked them up. Based on what he had to say about them, and the fact they are 1/3 the price of the Jupiter ($19 vs $63), I decided to go with them. They showed up today. These things are HUGE!! Here is a pic of a 0.1uF Sonicap Gen II next to a 0.1uF Miflex KPCU (copper).
My 0.1uF Miflex caps arrived today. When you said they're HUGE, you weren't kidding. I just ordered Miflex KPAL 2.2uF caps, so I expect them to be ridiculously oversized.
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Interesting inductors.https://www.parts-express.com/jantzen-audio-085mh-15-awg-litz-wire-air-core-inductor--255-922
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You get higher quality inductors in the Wedgie kit.
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My 0.1uF Miflex caps arrived today. When you said they're HUGE, you weren't kidding. I just ordered Miflex KPAL 2.2uF caps, so I expect them to be ridiculously oversized.
The Miflex 2.2uF cap arrived today. Far bigger than I anticipated. Darn thing weighs about a pound.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190067)
Here's the crossover before/after/way after...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190068)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190069)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190070)
Next step -- clean it up and tie it all down.
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Your 2.2uf capacitor is bigger than your inductor :lol:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190072)
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Here is the finished cap upgrade:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190308)
IMO, it looks impressive in a DIYish sort of way. Note the Speakon connector for the speaker cable. I removed high end Furutech binding posts and spades, but it didn't seem to matter. Speakons make audio life so much easier.
The crossover is now too large to enclose in a box, so I'm going to leave it naked and unashamed. So how does it sound? Well, with only a few hours of break-in, the sound is overall better without a doubt. More detailed and dynamic, definitely.
A big thumbs up for the Miflex caps.
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Here is the finished cap upgrade:
IMO, it looks impressive in a DIYish sort of way. Note the Speakon connector for the speaker cable. I removed high end Furutech binding posts and spades, but it didn't seem to matter. Speakons make audio life so much easier.
Swap out the Speak On's for a set of tube connectors and it will be like lifting a vale from the whole speaker.
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Note the Speakon connector for the speaker cable. I removed high end Furutech binding posts and spades, but it didn't seem to matter. Speakons make audio life so much easier.
Nice job using the best audio connectors for speakers and power! :thumb:
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How about a hardwire from the crossover to the speaker?
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How about a hardwire from the crossover to the speaker?
I may do that once I'm done tinkering with the crossover. For now, it's very convenient for the crossover not to be hardwired to the speaker.
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Swap out the Speak On's for a set of tube connectors and it will be like lifting a vale from the whole speaker.
I had tube connectors on my previous speakers. I prefer the Speakons for their convenience and lock-in capability.
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I had tube connectors on my previous speakers. I prefer the Speakons for their convenience and lock-in capability.
I like them for the same reason. We use them on our servo subs. They work fine for that application. But for the upper frequency ranges the disparity between the performance of Speakon connectors and tube connectors are too great.
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Some botique parts in Wedgies. Bypass caps not in place yet.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190514)
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Some botique parts in Wedgies. Bypass caps not in place yet.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190514)
You got the wax inductors - nice! I tried them on a lark, originally. Figured there was no way an inductor could have much affect on sound, especially compared to a cap. But I'll be damned if it didn't make a nice improvement.
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Shipped fast. I was very surprised. On my 1st album side now. Off the top, these are dark compared to the others I've tried. Kind of like rolling output amps in a solid state phono stage. I'll go in and shorten leads on inductors once I'm satisfied with the layout.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=190540)
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They open up quite a bit after about 100 hours, but never lose their beautifully rich tonality.