SongTowers: Ribbon Tweeter vs. Dome Tweeter

adydula · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Feb 2009, 06:04 pm »

Michigan Mike,

I am 59.5 years young and have had many speakers over time and the Maganpan's with a 5ft or so ribon tweeter was probably the most awesome sounding tweeter I ever had the pleasure to own and listen to.

But I have had other speakers like the 1988 Classic Mirage M1's (185 lbs each and 5 ft tall). That had dome tweeters that were in the same league to my ears.

If you have had the chance to AB the SongTowers at Jims etc with music that you are familiar with and like then the choice to you should be discernable.

If it was not then theres another data point....

I thought that when I listened to jazz with like Jazz at the Pawnshop the vibes were magnificant...compared to a dome tweter....better how...I guess its the sound and what my mind is conditioned to believe...something so light, so thin, so low in mass has to be able to react faster, quicker than a dome tweeter????

But when listening to this disc over and over and comparing to different tweeters...there is a difference in sound and how it 'sounds' to me....and I preferred the Maggie's ribbon sound better than the dome tweeter speakers I had back then.

But the ribbon in the Maggies was quite large compared to the one in the SongTower that Jim makes. I dont know if this would make a difference, I dont think its fair to compare a 5 ft ribbon to a small dome speaker

So my gut tells me that in the Songtower comparison between relatively same size tweeters ribbon and dome..that they proabably are close and you would be happy with either....I would probably think the ribbon would win out if I had to really compare the two..

With all that said, I have a dome set on order!! So there ya go.

All the Best
Alex

audiocrazy · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Feb 2009, 07:19 pm »

Quote from: jsalk on 10 Feb 2009, 05:58 pm

AM -

Quote from: audiocrazy on 10 Feb 2009, 04:06 pm
I've emailed Jim but have not heard back from him yet.

I don't think I ever got your email. Try again jimsalk@att.net. That ought to get through.

Quote
Let says if I go with ST RTs with standard veneer and was wondering how long it takes to get the speaker after ordering.

In standard veneers, we are currently running about 30 - 45 days.

- Jim

The website listed this email address info@salksound.com. I've forwarded the email to correct one. Hope to hear from you soon.

BTW its an interesting discussion and really helps 1st time buyer like me.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 Feb 2009, 07:34 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 10 Feb 2009, 06:04 pm

...I thought that when I listened to jazz with like Jazz at the Pawnshop the vibes were magnificant...compared to a dome tweter...
All the Best
Alex

I agree with Alex, the vibraphone is outstanding with ribbon tweeters; so too are triangles; bells; and breaking glass (anything that resonates really high up the scale). Like some of the others have said though, if you only listen to Rock and Roll (even if it's something like 85-90% Rock), I would probably stick with the domes (which, I have heard and they are fantastic). Save yourself some money, or spend it to get a more exotic veneer, or to get the hand rubbed finish.

martyo · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 Feb 2009, 07:50 pm »

Quote

I agree with Alex, the vibraphone is outstanding with ribbon tweeters; so too are triangles; bells; and breaking glass (anything that resonates really high up the scale). Like some of the others have said though, if you only listen to Rock and Roll (even if it's something like 85-90% Rock), I would probably stick with the domes (which, I have heard and they are fantastic). Save yourself some money, or spend it to get a more exotic veneer, or to get the hand rubbed finish.

Or to buy lottsa new music to listen to on your new SongTowers.

Nuance · « **Reply #24 on:** 10 Feb 2009, 11:21 pm »

Quote from: fishinbob on 10 Feb 2009, 05:38 am

I wouldn't worry too much about the off axis response of the ribbons. I notice it somewhat vertically, but not horizontally. Like if I stand up from a relatively close position I can detect a drop in db but sitting off axis doesn't have as much of an effect, if any.

Bob

Bingo - same thing goes for me.

If the extra $700 is really going to be hard to swallow from a financial standpoint, just get the domes and don't look back. Both are ridiculously fantastic speakers in my opinion; a sound I could never get out of my head even when I had others pairs of speakers in my home, which ultimately lead to me buying a pair of my own. The good news is you're getting a pair of Salk's, and I think Jim and Dennis have proven themselves on these forums by now. Pull the trigger, find something to occupy your time until they arrive, then kick back and enjoy the heck out of them. I am listening to Dream Theater right now, and it's just glorious!

adydula · « **Reply #25 on:** 10 Feb 2009, 11:54 pm »

Nuance!

I had a nice conversation with Jim today and it looks like my ST's will be assembled in the next few days...Oh My!! we are starting to get
excited once again....

Alex

Gord_Toronto · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 12:57 am »

What a wonderful forum. I'm convinced my decision for the Ribbons was the correct one. My mouth is literally watering with anticipation

devine · « **Reply #27 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 02:43 am »

I placed my order for the STs with dome tweeters (no center, for now). My new living room is pretty small and the wide axis should be sufficient for the 30% of HT listening I'll do. Love the silver/grey guitar burst finish but needed to skimp on the veneer so I'm going with the cherry. Now the waiting begins....

Thanks again to everyone who helped me cross the t's and dot the i's so I could complete my order. I've been doing a LOT of research on this purchase and even though I'm buying these without physically hearing or seeing them I feel very comfortable with my decision. This is in large part to the posts on this forum and the timely and thoughtful email responses from Jim!

adydula · « **Reply #28 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:12 am »

devine,

Great! Congrats on the decision. I like you have bought these without ever hearing a set and have a great set of speakers now...but I know there are 'better' in this class and it looks like this particular speaker design and choice of components and crossovers is indeed the sweetspot in this price category.

The wait wont be that long I am sure and Jim is a really nice person to deal with......a rarity these days for sure!

When mine arrive I will post my first impressions and review.

My room is a rather small room, the over the garage bonus room turned in to home theater and computer room.

All the best
Alex

devine · « **Reply #29 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 05:56 am »

Thanks Alex. I'm sure you will enjoy your STs also. So, did you get the QWTs or RTs?

funkmonkey · « **Reply #30 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 06:17 am »

Just for clarification I believe that QWT=Quarter Wave Transmission-line.
Both the ribbon tweeter (RT) and the soft dome (0W2) are QWT.

devine · « **Reply #31 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 06:46 am »

I thought the QWT designation referred to the dome tweeter, thanks for the clarification funkmonkey

adydula · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 02:45 pm »

devine,

I ordered the dome tweeter.

I was tempted to order the ribbons, but the speakers I have now and the speakers I have had and from my all my 'reading and research' into what theses speakers are 'supposed' to be capable of I really want to compare these with the domes to what I have now Dahlquist QX10's. The QX10's have 4 elements, 3 - 5 inch drivers and a small 1" dome metallic tweeter. They really are quite good and I have had them since 2002.

I am very interested to see how much better the QWT design will be in the bass department to these as well as imaging etc...and the metallic tweeter in these to the soft dome in the Song's.

I should be able to report on all of this is a few weeks!!

I really look forward to forgetting about the technology and getting back to listening to the 'music' once again!

All the Best
Alex

Nuance · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 10 Feb 2009, 11:54 pm

Nuance!

I had a nice conversation with Jim today and it looks like my ST's will be assembled in the next few days...Oh My!! we are starting to get
excited once again....

Alex

Woohoo! I am psyched for you!

I look forward to your impressions.

Quote from: Gord_Toronto on 11 Feb 2009, 12:57 am

What a wonderful forum. I'm convinced my decision for the Ribbons was the correct one. My mouth is literally watering with anticipation

I think you'll be very pleased. I also look forward to your impressions.

Quote from: devine on 11 Feb 2009, 02:43 am

I placed my order for the STs with dome tweeters (no center, for now). My new living room is pretty small and the wide axis should be sufficient for the 30% of HT listening I'll do. Love the silver/grey guitar burst finish but needed to skimp on the veneer so I'm going with the cherry. Now the waiting begins....

Thanks again to everyone who helped me cross the t's and dot the i's so I could complete my order. I've been doing a LOT of research on this purchase and even though I'm buying these without physically hearing or seeing them I feel very comfortable with my decision. This is in large part to the posts on this forum and the timely and thoughtful email responses from Jim!

Great news, Devine! I am sure you'll love them.

Can't wait to hear what you think! And guys, please post pics when you get them.

Quote from: devine on 11 Feb 2009, 06:46 am

I thought the QWT designation referred to the dome tweeter, thanks for the clarification funkmonkey

Technically they are both quarter wave transmission line, but we have been using the QWT and RT to distinguish them.

I guess a better way to do it would be to just say ribbons or domes.

Toka · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 08:28 am »

Great thread!

Have any FR/phase plots been shown comparing the ribbon/dome versions? I know the dome plots are on the website but haven't seen anything for the ribbon. Yet. Also, for those who compared the two directly, what differences, if any, did you find with soundstage depth?

ThorsHammer · « **Reply #35 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 10:56 am »

devine - saw you went with the cherry after considering other finishes.

It took me about 5 minutes to decide which speakers I wanted...and about a week to decide on the wood/finish, lol. I looked at every picture on the Salk site and every picture posted by Salk owners. Since I had already blown my budget by upgrading to the RT and then added the center I ended up just going with the cherry in a natural finish. Thought I was compromising...then the speakers arrived. If there is one thing that is repeated by owners on this forum that you can absolutely take to the bank it is that "pictures don't do the speakers justice". The fit and finish of these speakers is pretty incredible and even the basic choices are more in line with being fine furniture...or art...than just being a set of speakers.

Nuance · « **Reply #36 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 02:25 pm »

Quote from: Toka on 12 Feb 2009, 08:28 am

Great thread!

Have any FR/phase plots been shown comparing the ribbon/dome versions? I know the dome plots are on the website but haven't seen anything for the ribbon. Yet. Also, for those who compared the two directly, what differences, if any, did you find with soundstage depth?

I think this is the proper plot, but Dennis can correct me if I am wrong.

SongTower RT:

SongTower QWT (Dennis' pair):

devine · « **Reply #37 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 04:19 pm »

Can someone help me interpret these graphs in layman's terms?

Does this have a bearing on the axis for the RTs? Speaking of which,
Jim mentioned that the dome tweeters have a whopping 60 degree axis width. I know that the RTs are morrow narrow but does anyone know how much? It may not be too late to upgrade my order...

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #38 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 05:17 pm »

How wide is your audio room? At the RMAF AVA and Salk were in not a big room. About average for a hotel room. The songtowers with the ribbon tweeters easily filled the room with music. I didn't hear any off axis music. If you want to hear off axis music listen to a pair of Martin logans!!! If I were you I would not be concerned about weather to get Domes or ribbons.

Cheers
Charlie

DMurphy · « **Reply #39 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: devine on 12 Feb 2009, 04:19 pm

Can someone help me interpret these graphs in layman's terms?

Does this have a bearing on the axis for the RTs? Speaking of which,
Jim mentioned that the dome tweeters have a whopping 60 degree axis width. I know that the RTs are morrow narrow but does anyone know how much? It may not be too late to upgrade my order...

These plots have nothing to do with off-axis response. The first is a simulation of the RT ST in my design software. It is not an actual measurement of the finished product. The second is a chopped off real measurement of something--I guess it's the ST, but I can't quite tell. Maybe it's the plot that was posted on another thread to show the effects of the grill. I couldn't find that quickly, but if someone knows the link, it might help to post it here. Both the dome and ribbon versions of the ST have a "60 degree axis width" to either side, in the sense that there is substantial output in the highs 60 degrees off axis. But the dome has a little more, and it's a little smoother. That's just a fact of physics due to the size and shape of the drivers. I don't think it would be much of an issue in most rooms and listening positions.