And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST

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sarge_in

And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« on: 10 Aug 2011, 06:38 am »

I finally received my much awaited HT2-TL's and HT2C last week, and I have to say they surpass my expectations in every single area I was looking to improve on the SongTowers and SC I had for a few months before them. To be honest, there was always the nagging thought in my mind about how different they will be from the ST, given that so many have stated, including Jim, how similarly voiced they are. I did audition the HT2-TL beofre making the decision and liked what I had heard, but you never know how much you will hear in your room untill you actually hear it. But to me, in my room and settings, the HT2-TL take an already excellent design and make it truly exceptional; the difference is not trivial and is very audible.

My quick take on the differences between the two for those who may be considering the two:

1. Highs - Everyone speaks about the bass of HT2-TLs, and it is all true of course. But for me the bigger reason to upgrade was the highs. The ST while may not be bright in the regular sense of the word, did sometimes walk close to the fine line between very detailed and bright. There were a few recordings on which I wished the ST was a bit less bright and forward. Also, over time I became aware of some sibilance with the ST...the sssss that I could start hearing in regular dialog etc. I have realized I am VERY sensitive to brightness and sibilance, and this has become one of the first things I have started noticing in any speakers I hear. As for the HT2-TL, they are the smoothest and cleanest speakers I have heard so far (though I have only heard the several mainstream brands) while extracting all the detail and then some. Even I can NEVER call them as bright - they are not fatiguing AT ALL and the sibilance is pretty much non-existent. For the same reason, I am also happy I got the RAAL center as well. The RAAL is my new best friend :).

2. Bass - No question here. The HT2-TL are in a different league here. I still find that I prefer running the SongSub with it as it seems to make the mids and highs slightly cleaner. But even then they are able to blend better than the ST.

3. Mids - I find them to be cleaner as well, and I am surely noticing nuances I didn't before that make the music all the more musical.

4. General sound - This is probably the biggest unexpected difference, and to me worth the price of upgrade by itself. All the sounds seem to be more 'full' and have more 'body' or 'weight' to it, while also providing the micro-details. Difficult to describe, but all the sounds seem so much more NATURAL and full-bodied. The ST were on the leaner side in comparison. It is possible that some of this difference could be because I am running these in a fairly good-sized room, not sure. Also, the music from HT2-TL seems so much effortless, for want of a better word. With the ST, while they did a great job creating musics trying to disappear, they were still TRYING. The HT2-TL truly disappear and I am surprised how often (most of the time!?) I notice I am enjoying the music and not the speakers (even though I am sure 'disappearing' will take on a different meaning with HT3 or Soundscapes).

5. Imaging & Soundstage - This one is kind of a mixed bag. I think the ST imaged slightly better in 2 dimensions - more precise. But the HT2-TL have a much more holographic feel to it...the effect is more 3D than the ST. Also, the soundstage with ST was mostly contained within the speakers, while HT2-TL goes beyond them. They have a very wide and deep soundstage. Combine this with the so-natural and effortless natue of the sound and it gives me a musical experience that I have not heard elsewhere yet.

6. Sweetspot - This was one thing I was concerned about with the RAAL. Turned out to be a non-issue (as Jim had assured me). They both had pretty similar sweetspot - almost one chair wide. This is one thing I wish was a bit better in both ST and HT2-TL.

In short, I am VERY happy with the upgrade, and to me the difference is well worth the the price difference. I had read figures like ST being close to 90% of HT2-TL etc. I won't try to put a number to it, but whatever the difference 'x' is, it is quite an important 'x'. Much as the ST were an excellent pair of speakers, the HT2-TL are more than a match for the ST. I truly don't see myself looking for an upgrade any time soon (ever?). And of course, I am sure there is much more to extract from these with placement, sub eq, DAC, pre-amp, more powerful amps etc etc....but I am in no big hurry!

As for the finish, I was concerned about this too and wanted to get as close to the SongSub I have as possible. Even thought they of course don't match completely, I am thrilled with what I finally received and like it even better than the ST I had. I actually prefer the color of HT2-TL over ST/SongSub.

One more note - the room treatments - 3 2x4 Acoustimac panels, 1 3x5 GIK Art Panel, 4 GIK tri-traps - made a pretty significant difference and helped reduce the reflections in this huge room.

Big thanks to Jim and team for these excellent speakers!

Finally, some pics:












rajesh

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Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #1 on: 10 Aug 2011, 07:58 am »
Lovely setup there Sarge. Wish they sold it in kit form.

martyo

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #2 on: 10 Aug 2011, 08:42 am »
Excellent write up Sarge. Being similarly voiced is different than being equal. They have better drivers, you described many of the improvements. And the RAAL! Happy listening!! 8)

fsimms

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #3 on: 10 Aug 2011, 01:21 pm »
Beautiful speakers!  I have a friend who is thinking of building a home theater.  Your comments are a big help to him.  Thanks for the descriptions.

Bob

vintagebob

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #4 on: 10 Aug 2011, 02:57 pm »
Great write up! 

When did you order the HT2-TLs and what was the actual day of delivery?  I want to update the Owner's Impressions thread.

Art_Chicago

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #5 on: 10 Aug 2011, 03:03 pm »
Sarge_in

Nice setup!
just curious what version of ST you are referring to -- with LCY or a dome tweeter?
thanks

Nuance

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #6 on: 10 Aug 2011, 06:43 pm »
Wow, Sarge, those are gorgeous!  Thanks for the write-up buddy, and I am happy you're loving your upgrade. :thumb:

sarge_in

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #7 on: 10 Aug 2011, 06:48 pm »
Thanks everyone!

@rajesh - I know..kit would be good for international customers to save on high shipping costs. No idea what Jim thinks about those.

@martyo - Yep, Seas Excel W18 are excellent - they play a huge part of course in many of those differences I mentioned! And not to forget Dennis's crossover to make them sing together in a team ;)

@fsimms - These are great for HT as well, of course. One point though, the ST are more efficient, so I had to raise the levels for HT2-TL a few notches to get it to same level. But once done, they stay loud and very clean.

@vintagebob - I ordered on June 5, received them Aug 4. Good idea about maintaining track of build times!

@Art - The ST were with the dome tweeter.  I should have mentioned that.

@Nuance - They are MUCH better in real than the pics of course.

martyo

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #8 on: 10 Aug 2011, 06:55 pm »
Quote
@Art - The ST were with the dome tweeter.  I should have mentioned that.


I was wondering that too so I went back thru your posts and found the pictures of your SongTowers and damn if you didn't have the grills on. :lol:

My brother has the HT2-TL with the RAAL's, they are very special. NO edge at all but with increased detail, and way open.  8)

ratso

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #9 on: 10 Aug 2011, 09:56 pm »
how do you like the HT2C?

sarge_in

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #10 on: 11 Aug 2011, 01:04 am »
I was wondering that too so I went back thru your posts and found the pictures of your SongTowers and damn if you didn't have the grills on. :lol:

My brother has the HT2-TL with the RAAL's, they are very special. NO edge at all but with increased detail, and way open.  8)

Ha ha....yeah the finish on the two is soo close.

That is a lot of Salk and AVA goodness in the family!! Some day.. I won't even ask how your HT3 compare to his HT2-TL...that will be one expensive answer ;)

sarge_in

Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #11 on: 11 Aug 2011, 01:54 am »
how do you like the HT2C?

Love it. The clarity, by itself, is of course there in spades. As compared to SongCenter, the RAAL and the Seas Excel W18 make all the difference - smoother, more natural, full-bodied voices and in-the-room performance. RAAL vertical dispersion doesn't seem to be an issue so far (which was one of my concerns with the RAAL, as the speaker is lower than ear level).

ricardojoa

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Re: And life is good again... HT2-TL vs ST
« Reply #12 on: 11 Aug 2011, 04:46 am »
Both your old songtowers and current ht2tl are awesome looking. I too prefer the current HT, the way is veneer is very special.