AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Vista Audio => Topic started by: Audiovista on 22 Feb 2016, 07:17 pm
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"This little Serbian half-pint is the best sounding sub-$500 integrated that I've ever heard. Man this thing is good!!"
Thank you Sean for being brave to make the above statement! R.E.S.P.E.C.T. :notworthy:
I am very happy that what I hear got confirmation in this review. Spark's sonic signature reminds me a lot of model i84 (Vista Audio's EL84 tube amplifier, now discontinued), with just slightly better dynamics and bass control, due to tiny bit more power (Spark's 20W vs. i84's 15W).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GERhpHTYXOE
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Hey Boris,
I had a great time with the Spark. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to take it for a spin. :thumb:
I'm not sure whether people will believe this or not, but I truly do abhor using the word 'best' when it comes to describing high-fidelity esoterica. Unfortunately, your Spark put me in something of a conundrum. On one hand, that little black brick truly is the best sounding $350 integrated that I've come across. On the flip side, I know these kind of assessments tend to be circumstantial and subjective.
So in light of that, I just uploaded a video that's designed to give my assessment some much needed context. Hopefully you don't mind me laying down the link on your thread. Here it is!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woAbnBN06iE
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=137911)
Just for giggles, I thought I'd share a pic of an organic, free-range Spark. :)
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How does this sound different from the upgraded Ampino?
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Wind Chaser,
Good question. Since I'm having to rely on memory, my assessment may not be 100% on the mark. That said, here's what I recall:
The Dayens upgraded Ampino @ $672 USD
Overall, the upgraded Ampino features a more versatile performance envelope. It's larger power supply gives its presentation more weight and drive. This beefier power supply also results in stronger bass that will sound more consistent across a wide array of loudspeakers. The midrange is more colored sounding than the Sparks - erring slightly further into the warm and thick side of the tonal spectrum. Otherwise, the top-end and imaging sounds more or less similar.
The Vista Audio Spark @ $350 USD
The Spark by contrast, features a more balanced and neutral sounding midrange. The integration between the major frequency brands strikes me as a touch superior, and the noise floor on the Spark is notably lower. No, it won't have the muscular presence of the upgraded Ampino (or even the regular Ampino for that matter), but I nonetheless feel like the Spark makes an excellent showing for itself at nearly half the cost.
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Zero,
I've been enjoying your videos for the last week or two. Keep em coming. :thumb:
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Thanks!
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Thanks, Sean. About 5 years ago I had an upgraded Ampino, to my ears it was really quite a remarkable little amp. One thing it seemed to do better than any amp I have ever heard or owned was its uncanny ability to unravel complex arrangements. What I mean is it was easy to make a distinction between between the individual leading edges of the various instruments being played to the point where you could really hear the rhythm of what each musician is doing as if he were the only one playing. Is that what Naim folks call PRAT? In any case, I'd like to have that experience again, so I think I'm game to try some Naim.
But as an entry point, the Spark looks like a very good intro for those who' would like to taste real hi-fi.
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Thanks for the follow up video Sean! It has been fun watching your video personality mature in front of a camera. Keep up the great work!
Wind Chaser - it's been good 12 months since I spent time alone with Ampino... you are reminding me that I should go for a refresh :)
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It is indeed a terrific little amp. I replaced mine with a 300b; the tubes alone cost double the price the Ampino, and to be honest the sonic gains were negligible. :? But at least it looked very pretty. :lol: :wtf:
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It is indeed a terrific little amp. I replaced mine with a 300b; the tubes alone cost double the price the Ampino, and to be honest the sonic gains were negligible. :? But at least it looked very pretty. :lol: :wtf:
:)
Personally, I'd trade 300B for 2A3 anytime, even at loss of 55% of available power at the output. :dunno:
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Any chance you will make a bigger spark with more power? You could call it Lightening / Voltaic / Vigor / Punch / Bolt etc.
Out of curiosity, what does the Spark look like under the hood?
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I was going to include a 'nude' shot of the Spark in my review, but I ran outta time. That and, well, I was also feeling a bit lazy. :green: :lol:
Let us know if you ever try some Naim gear. I've cycled through nearly a dozen of their components through the years. It's real good stuff. Nit Picks aside, the only thing you should know is that Naims more affordable lines have a distinct sound. On the upside, it's a pretty darned engaging sound. On the downside, it'll make your entire music library sound as though it was recorded from the same studio.
That's how the game goes in this hobby. Ya give. Ya take.
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Any chance you will make a bigger spark with more power? You could call it Lightening / Voltaic / Vigor / Punch / Bolt etc.
Oh man, where were you when I was struggling with a name? :idea:
It seems that my work with solid-state electronics leads me to another phono stage and high-risk experiments with "zero-distortion" amplification (high-risk in a sense that I will not get it to meet the aggressive specs or, if I do, that it will not sound good, or that it will not be manufacturable at reasonable costs). But there is a lot of fun to be had 8)
In parallel, I will make a product or two with vacuum tubes. One is almost ready :D
Out of curiosity, what does the Spark look like under the hood?
I was going to include a 'nude' shot of the Spark in my review, but I ran outta time. That and, well, I was also feeling a bit lazy. :green: :lol:
Sean, I'll save you the trouble of dealing with metric Allen screws - here is a picture from the assembly line. Most massive parts are toroidal transformer capable of running an amplifier with twice the power of Spark, and good-sized heatsink to keep things cool... 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=138004)
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Make the Spark switchable to mono?
Never mind. :scratch:
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Jeez, that looks pretty nice and tidy. :thumb:
My new speakers are rated around 89 db and my comfort zone is in the mid to upper 80's. So in theory a Spark could be enough, but on occasion I like to open it up loud - for a short listen.
I look forward to reading more impressions from others.
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I have one coming in. My speakers are 91db at 4 ohms.
We'll see how well it kicks. I'll report back
Boris has been quiet fo too long. Looking at that phono too.
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My new speakers are rated around 89 db and my comfort zone is in the mid to upper 80's. So in theory a Spark could be enough, but on occasion I like to open it up loud - for a short listen.
Careful, I had a 7 wpc driving 91 dB/w/m speakers with similar taste listening near-field in a 8ft x 13ft x 21ft room. It was enough, but moving up to 40 wpc turned my speakers from polite dinner guests into NFL linebackers in tuxedos. Bottom line, the amp should provide a commanding grip on the speakers. OTOH that relatively big power supply should help.
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That's a chip amp, am I right?
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Definitely no!
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oh ok, thanks!
Zero ,your video reviews are very good!,all the best mate... :thumb:
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Careful, I had a 7 wpc driving 91 dB/w/m speakers with similar taste listening near-field in a 8ft x 13ft x 21ft room. It was enough, but moving up to 40 wpc turned my speakers from polite dinner guests into NFL linebackers in tuxedos.
Ah, but come dinner time, would you rather host polite dinner guests ...or NFL line backers? :lol:
About 5 years I had an Ampino (similar power output to the Spark) and oh gosh, it could put a lot of pretentious more powerful amps out to pasture. It was ridiculously musical, engaging and satisfying to hear music flow out of it, that is... within its limitations.
Like all flea amps (and I've had a few... 2A3, 300b, EL84, SV83 and a TPA3116 etc) partnering is very important. My head tells me I need at least 60 watts (x2) but the Spark is pulling on my heart strings. Great sound on a shoestring is very auspicious and satisfying. 8)
Perhaps to some extent one could compensate by tasking the bottom end to augmentation?
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Yes, off loading bass to a sub (or just using speakers that don't do deep bass) would help.
And yes again, watts on paper don't translate into real world watts. My 7 wpc Tripath kicked tiny tube amp butt on my 25 - 20,000 Hz 91 dB/w/m 8 ohm speakers. They were pukey thin sounding compared to my Tripath. But more watts provided more resolution overall and fuller/tighter bass. That beefy power supply should help provide a good grip (within it's limits of course).
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Thanks Georgo. :)
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Yes, off loading bass to a sub (or just using speakers that don't do deep bass) would help.
And yes again, watts on paper don't translate into real world watts. My 7 wpc Tripath kicked tiny tube amp butt on my 25 - 20,000 Hz 91 dB/w/m 8 ohm speakers. They were pukey thin sounding compared to my Tripath. But more watts provided more resolution overall and fuller/tighter bass. That beefy power supply should help provide a good grip (within it's limits of course).
Agreed. A "problem" with low power tube amps is in the tiny output transformers (relatively speaking) . Solid state amplifiers don't have the same problem. Even class D amplifiers have mosfets which are rated much higher than amplifier's maximum output current, and output filters have fairly low impedance due to the high switching frequencies. Not to mention massive amounts of negative feedback. Still, small tube amps can bring a lot of joy, when carefully paired with efficient speakers.
BTW - I overcame the transformer issue with my personal 2A3 tube amp (3.5Wpc), by using massively oversized transformers, which would be comfortable in a 300B configuration as well. But, two 8 pound output transformers, and another (heavier) one for power supply, do not yield lightweight and inexpensive tube amp. On the other hand... it cannot be beat by anything in the similar power range (<10W) and priced up to $20k (it did go through three months of testing by third parties 8)).
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Somewhat surprising feedback from a customer in Germany: he borrowed Spark from his friend to try with his ATC SCM7 speakers (http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm7-mk3/). Shortly after, he bought his own Spark.
What is surprising is that SCM7 have low sensitivity (84dB @ 1W, 1m) and seem to require high power (spec is 75-300W). Yet, the customer also tested several high power amplifiers and did not find them satisfying for jazz and chamber music. I have always thought that 87-88dB is practical lower limit for Spark and I am glad that this assumption has been successfully challenged.
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Somewhat surprising feedback from a customer in Germany: he borrowed Spark from his friend to try with his ATC SCM7 speakers (http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/entry-series/scm7-mk3/). Shortly after, he bought his own Spark.
What is surprising is that SCM7 have low sensitivity (84dB @ 1W, 1m) and seem to require high power (spec is 75-300W). Yet, the customer also tested several high power amplifiers and did not find them satisfying for jazz and chamber music. I have always thought that 87-88dB is practical lower limit for Spark and I am glad that this assumption has been successfully challenged.
This fits with what I was advising a young audiophile just yesterday—take amplifier performance figures with a huge pinch of salt. Years ago I had the experience of a 35 WPC Mission Cyrus 1 amp performing as though it was more powerful than a (nominal) 120WPC NAD amp, in that I could play my system louder before it became objectionable.
According to Antony Michaelson of Musical Fidelity we are operating our amplifiers into minor clipping more regularly than we realize. According to a survey done by HiFi News ages ago, one of the few measurable amplifier performance characteristics associated with what is perceived as good sound is clipping recovery behaviour—some (marginally stable) amps get upset and recover erratically and relatively slowly and other amps recover quickly and cleanly. The latter tend to sound better.
Maybe the Spark has good clipping recovery characteristics, since it probably was clipping a little, driving those ATCs.
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Interesting timing on this user's experience with low sensitivity speakers - I'm going through something similar the last day or so.
My secondary speakers are a set of Harbeth P3ESRs, which I listen to every once in a while. With my main amp (a Karan KA-I180 Mk 2), I could never really get along with the Harbeth's. You would imagine an amp like that could make anything sound good. All the audiophile boxes would be ticked off when using the Karan/P3 combo - clarity, texture, imaging, etc., but I just couldn't get emotionally involved in the music. I always wanted to just take the P3s out.
Enter the Spark. I've had the Spark for a while and was using it happily in my office system, which ended up being dismantled, leaving the Spark idle. Completely on a whim, I decided to try the Spark with the P3s and damn - it's way more enjoyable to listen to than the Karan/P3 combo! I'm sure all the audiophile stuff is better represented by the Karan, but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that the Spark/P3 combo communicates the emotion in a performance WAY better. I feel like I've finally understood and gotten the measure of the P3s in my system for the first time. I'm literally listening to this combo right now and feeling like I need to check out Harbeth's more expensive offerings.
Sometimes unexpected pairings yield better results. Definitely the case with the Spark and P3s. Kudos to Boris on the Spark. The fact such an unassuming, inexpensive amp can run comfortably with much more expensive, inefficient speakers should open people's minds to the possibilities in "unconventional" pairings.
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Indeed, I thought the little Spark sounded very good here too, 4 Ohm 91db Ushers. Especially after I left it on. Comparing it to a Pathos Classic One MKII. Surprised the hell out of me, the presentation that is. It kept up fine. Plug it with an iFi itube 2 ..................................... :scratch:
Everything on my front end has been changed now but I would expect it to sound better. AND, ya never know how things will match up in your system. Somtimes we get hung up on the price judging things.
Ahhhhh no remote LOL! I have gotten very lazy with the volume control, gotta have remote, but I know there are ways around that reasonably too.
For $350 cool stuff :thumb:.
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Still have my Spark. Still loving it. The iTube 2 recommendation is spot the heck on. A great , compact, budget friendly setup!
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Boris, How bout a Spark without a power amp section, or the option to by-pass the power amp section and use the spark
as a preamp only?
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Hi Steve,
Spark without power amp would end up being just a passive preamp. Spark-T will be little more than just an amplifier, but I'll take a look if the power amp bypass can be incorporated without penalties. Do you think that the feature makes sense for a desktop amplifier (I think of Spark-T as a desktop amplifier, but it can be used with any sensitive speakers, pretty much same as the solid-state Spark)?
The preamp that I mentioned in the other post (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149034.new#new) will have an iteration with tube buffer. When I figure out all the details maybe that becomes a stand alone preamp. Lot of testing will be needed... looking forward to it :thumb:
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The new review just published by Steve Guttenberg. Short and sweet! It made my day (and much more)!
https://youtu.be/lSRRqN_kIvA
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Is there a break in period for the amplifier? Does it sound better after being played for a certain period of time (warm up)?
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Twenty hours should be enough for initial burn in. On a daily basis, 15-20 minutes of warm up is sufficient.
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Got my spark in yesterday and am very impressed by it. I chose ELAC debut 2 B6.2 and it pushes them well and i haven't even approached the breakin. (half way volume) Im no audiophile but for the cost of the setup i dont think it can be beat by much.
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Still going strong!! :D
Audiophiliac's "Believe it: $1,250 (or less) can buy a complete audiophile system"
Spark starts at 11:40
https://youtu.be/Fdb8wLd73Tg (https://youtu.be/Fdb8wLd73Tg)
:notworthy:
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https://youtu.be/2Q2VsdedGMs
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=199869)
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Boris that Spark is catching fire. Good luck. Another gem from Boris.
charles
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Thank you Charles!
Yes, the Spark is doing well, worldwide - we even sold about dozen units in China! I’m psyched about that.
Best,
Boris