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The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Rocky Mountain Audio Fest => Topic started by: Pez on 14 Oct 2013, 11:11 pm

Title: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 14 Oct 2013, 11:11 pm
This year... Wow were there a lot of great GREAT rooms. Last year when there was one single clear 'best of the best' from me (Odyssey audio/ GIK acoustics). They were far and away ahead of everything else I heard. This year was different. There were so many systems that just dropped my jaw that I've had to readdress the way I do 'best of'.

It is encouraging and greatly enjoyable to be in the position where I feel like multiple rooms deserve the title 'best of the best'. And among the 'best of the best' I have decided to break it up into 3 tiers. Think of it like the Michelin restaurant list, if you're on it at all rest assured, you are the best performers at the show.

Here's how it works:
1 star rating - you are among the subjective best in my personal opinion.
2 star rating - you are elevated within the 'best' category and stand out as the top in your field.
3 star rating basically means you are defining/redefining what 'state of the art' means. Within the final 3 star tier I am going to name The absolute BEST OF SHOW.

Ironically naming bests at a show like this is akin to having 100 Miss America contestants, only judging only 30 of them, and then appointing one of them Ms America. We weren't even close to seeing a majority of the show (less than 50%!) so please take this with a grain of salt. In my estimation it would take 3 Tyson and Pez teams to cover the entire show. 4 if you include CanJam.

One last thing, if I forget any vendors who were in these rooms please send me a PM and I will fix it. Do not list these kinds of issues in thread please.

Any way without further adieu:

Pez's Best of RMAF

One Star Rooms

(http://www.clipartpal.com/_thumbs/pd/education/small_gold_star.png)


Zesto/WyWires/TAD


(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/d511d0c7217e41e0bfb275122eb75b00_zps94d3bbf0.jpg)

First room we hit and to my ears it was fantastic. This is one of those systems without any particular weakness, yet unlike many other 'hifi' sounding systems this one preserved the soul and beauty of the music. We even went back to the room friday night for a little cheese and wine, very fun time!

MA Recordings Woo Audio

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/4c0baf355d1d4b0fa6cceaeac74476e2_zps7c5e3d78.jpg)

Every year this is a great room regardless, I particularly liked the Stax system.

Dynamic Designs, Marten, Modwright


(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/1dad023e4127eec6351c561a65a3ec65_zps4a08ea06.jpg)

This room did everything right. I liked the detail, fullness and presentation. A little on the lean side, but not so much that it took away from the overall experience.

Prana Fidelity

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/acfde40c96476c4668f4b986da4226a6_zpsfa3b65ad.jpg)

As I said in my post a top tier performer for a reasonable amount of scratch, but very plain jane appearance that slightly undermines the actual sound quality of what I was hearing. Not saying this is why it's not a 2 star or 3 star system, just sayin' is all.

King Audio, Shaker Audio, Kaplan Cables

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/784c3beb7a6b9ffb7be2316cd65c317f_zps33ab7c3d.jpg)
Very impressive system. Best Stat setup I have heard at this show ever period.

Two Star Rooms

(http://www.clipartpal.com/_thumbs/pd/education/small_gold_star.png)(http://www.clipartpal.com/_thumbs/pd/education/small_gold_star.png)

Zellaton
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/200337c91286db77e9694ae02bae3f49_zpsf9a7059c.jpg)

Two years running this room has made it to best of. No room treatments, yet still phenomenal I wonder how great it would be with treatments? Really had to go back and forth on this one as a potential 3 star, but ultimately it's just lacking a little umph in the dynamics arena.

iFi Avatar

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0fdb4eedb196d3c8aac2619e4839278d_zpsb3b996e2.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/39e6842a9399dd09a7ece419e95f883e_zps737cf4e4.jpg)

For as absolutely cheap this stuff is it doesn't make sense to me. I have never heard the Audeze headphones sound soooo good! Every year AMR/Avatar/iFi always make it on our list, this year they pulled something completely out of left field and still managed to make it work and work well. Another note, Darren and Vincent are two of the greatest guys at the show. They are passionate about what they do, they really take the bull by the horns and put themselves out there every year and triumph every single time.

Vapor Audio, Empirical Audio

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/2e93a20d178718f2581658455b1c8009_zps7e7a7ae0.jpg)

Yes there was a LOT of buzz about this particular setup at the show. I really really liked this setup a little too much sparkle up top IMO to be 3 star, but everything else about this system actually screams 3 star.

MBL

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/083b257b2f01fbd8352ac1a61802a052_zpsfd511696.jpg)
Pretty amazing, probably 3 star material as well honestly, however the soundstage just suffered way too much in this room. Where other systems knock down the front wall this wall faceplanted right into it. if you had both Daniel Plainview oil tycoon money and oil tycoon sized listening room then I'm sure you could create your own 4 star room with these speakers, but it just didn't happen in the Marriott hotel. I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!!!

Three Star Rooms

(http://www.clipartpal.com/_thumbs/pd/education/small_gold_star.png)(http://www.clipartpal.com/_thumbs/pd/education/small_gold_star.png)(http://www.clipartpal.com/_thumbs/pd/education/small_gold_star.png)

Before I talk about which rooms made the absolute best of the best 3 star let me just say, if you're on this list yours is a system that is truly unique sonically. The sound I heard from these rooms any other year would, without a doubt, have been the undisputed best in show. This year was absolutely mind blowing the way the entire show was way better than ever and therefore there was an inordinate amount of superb rooms. I don't just dole out high praise so if you made this list you have earned my highest accolade. And yes, this is no particular order.

Daedalus Audio, Modwright

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/897a645a40c8674f6288f0acb5ffc2d9_zpsd0c9da3b.jpg)

Really superb sound in this room. Absolutely the best tone in show period. The V2 Ulysses stepped up an already superb tower speaker. This room was hot hot HOT this year, always crowded. Dan and Lou are among my favorite people at the show and every year I enjoy seeing them. What else can I say about this setup? well, certainly the best I have heard from either vendor in any room past or present, best looking speakers still after all these years and there's a flavor to this room that you just don't get from any other manufacturer that is unique to Daedalus audio. Well done.

TAD

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0313ca2c5c4621f0c1e9f63b2244663a_zps14d990ea.jpg)

It should be Best of the Best. Why it's not? first, the room is too small, second while this system sounds amazing there is no room treatment at speak of and this nullifies quite a bit of refinement. TAD does an amazing job every year and they are without a doubt the tip top best of the best in show, but these few nits are holding it back. Andrew is a legend at this point. So down to earth, so brilliant, so hilarious and whimsical. I would stop by his room if he were selling skullcandy headphones just to chat with him, but he just so happens to make and sell the industries best. Kudos.

GR Research, Dodd

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/f5ba47bead83e4ba646dc39b8505b38a_zps05f6cdfb.jpg)

Wow doesn't really encompass the way this system sounded this year. HOLY SHIT!!!!! comes close. I could not believe how this setup really pulled everything together and really REALLY kicked ass on everything we heard. Aside for being underdriven a bit (big amps were just sitting looking pretty while the small Dodds were running the panels) they did everything else right and really stood out from previous years. Absolute grand slam home run with this system in every way. Danny and crew are always a great group. I'm not sure how Danny pulls it off, but he always looks like he's totally laid back despite all the chaos. Fantastic setup.

Audiokenesis, NBS, Atmasphere, James Romeyn Music and Audio

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/73a1cf506e8c561860a665247332d9d9_zpsc7427acf.jpg)

Duke and crew, this is the best I've heard from you all and just like every other 3 star system here I really enjoyed and loved what I heard. This room had the most locked in soundstage and imaging I have ever heard bar none with dynamics to match. The sweetspot is just an incredible experience and really musical top to bottom. So glad I heard this system, it absolutely elevated my impression of all of this gear! I was absolutely blown away... Please don't kiss me.  :wink:

Odyssey, GIK

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/202cd35f003abe323a8262ff42561df3_zpsd0f7637c.jpg)

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/49eaeed4fa1ac17cb42dbe7ed80c20dc_zps35c667f3.jpg?t=1381701785)
Klaus played us Ana gadda da vida while using an oil lamp to trip us out. A RMAF first.

Two years running this system was inspired. Last year I distinctly remember the emotional response I had in this room. It was strong, it was vivid, it was awesome. This year I had the same response. Yet the system was actually BETTER than last year. Soulful, dynamic as hell and just plain great. Klaus, Alex, Alex (no that's not a typo), Brian, Glenn, Shelley are amongst my favorite people at the show. Such a CRAZY eclectic brilliant and hilarious group of people really fun to be around! Out of any system on this list the Odyssey/GIK room offers the best performance for the dollar bar none. Odyssey will sell these towers like hot cakes.

...and the winner is

Absolute Best of the Best in show RMAF 2013.

(http://mods.mybb.com/uploads/previews/55383-1350143882-handled_trophy.jpg)

Vapor Audio, GIK, Empirical, Arte Forma

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0226aba93436cb02b1aca2b2422c26fe_zpsaceba885.jpg)

I remember the first time I came to this show and walked into a room similar to this. I thought 'OH MY GOD!!! I have never EVER seen anything so beautiful and amazing in my life!!!!' I excitedly sat down in the sweet spot, they put the music on and I thought 'why does it sound so terrible?' That has been a repeating theme in these shows. Oddly, the big impressive looking systems usually don't sound.... well big or impressive.

When I first walked in to the Vapor room and saw this setup I had the same initial jaw to the floor reaction when seeing this masterfully crafted gear. But I have since built up years of a jaded exterior after being disappointed so many times by big systems like this. Much to my surprise When we sat down and listened to the system my jaw remained on the floor. I loved that SET sound. I have never heard it sound so big and so rich. HUGE imaging incredible soundstage. As Ted_b put it 'larger than life' and I loved it. The gear is all drool worthy. The Arte Forma amps are gorgeous the richness and smoothness of the SET at incredibly powerful levels is something I don't think I've ever heard at this show. Ryan does incredible work and clearly has vision for not only what state of the art is, but where state of the art should be. The Vapor Nimbus speakers are a sight to behold. The meticulous nature of all the Vapor gear is extraordinary, but something about the Nimbus really inspire awe.

Now sound quality, why did I pick this particular system over the others? This system fits perfectly into what my tastes are. Big SET sound, effortlessly conveyed with top to bottom integration that makes you forget you're listening to a speaker. While every other setup on my 3 star systems had many great cards to play this one had the strongest hand. While people were going back and forth most arguing that the Joules were 'better' I personally feel the Nimbus/Arte Forma/Empirical/GIK are probably the best I have heard period.

Ryan, GIK crew, and all the rest; Congratulations, you have managed to put something together that was special, well thought out and well executed.
_______________________________________ _______________________________________ _______________________________________ __________
As stated before, overall this year was simply incredible. Much better show as a whole. All of these systems were judged solely on their sonic performance. Of course it doesn't hurt when the setups are attractive as well. For me it was a close call between Odyssey, Vapor, GR Research, Audiokinesis and TAD for my absolute best of. The truth is any one the systems I have listed here are phenomenal and should be on anyone's short list to demo. Hope you all enjoyed!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 14 Oct 2013, 11:12 pm
Tyson’s Best of RMAF

Oh man, where to even start?  This year was, as a whole, much better than last year.  Probably because Jason and I kicked a bunch of consistently mediocre rooms to the curb and were able to focus more on the historically better performing manufacturers.  So this year we had a great experience with a lot of really excellent sounding rooms.  In fact, I’d say that we heard more good sounding rooms than bad ones (or even mediocre ones).  Quite a change from previous years.


SPECIAL MENTION

There were a couple of vendors that don’t really fit into the standard categories very well, but they were both doing such an outstanding job that I felt compelled to create a new category just to acknowledge them. 

GIK Acoustics
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.  These guys are the Rolls Royce of room treatments.  Not only is their equipment better and more comprehensive than anyone else’s, it is also the most beautiful.  The art panels and the diffuser panels are particularly impressive and can be proudly hung on the wall of any home.  And that would be enough.  But it’s not all.  With GIK you also get expert customer service and technical advice on how to best use the treatments.  Room acoustics can be intimidating.  These guys make it easy and painless.


Avatar Acoustics
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/39e6842a9399dd09a7ece419e95f883e_zps737cf4e4.jpg)
Normally there’s an actual Avatar Acoustics room, with $7k speaker, $5k CD players, etc… This year they had a booth at CanJam.  And these stupid-small little component boxes in a little stack.  I was rather dubious about the whole enterprise.  Darren, the vendor, told me a whole lot of technical stuff in a very short amount of time, including terms like “trickle down technology from AMR”.  I’m pretty sure my eyes glazed over.  I do know from past years that AMR makes seriously high end gear.  But these boxes were so……tiny.  Sat down and put on what I considered to be pretty mediocre headphones (Audeze), and had one of the best musical experiences of my life.  Lets put it this way:  In 10 years of RMAF I have never bought any equipment from anyone.  I left the iFi booth with 2 boxes.


HONORABLE MENTION

These are vendors that were all GREAT.  Really excellent sound in these rooms and a strong showing at RMAF.

Zellaton
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/200337c91286db77e9694ae02bae3f49_zpsf9a7059c.jpg)
Last year they were the shocker of the show – a wideband based speaker with what looked like metal drivers.  Recipe of disaster.  Except they sounded great.  And they sounded great again.  If they treated their room, they would have a very good chance of getting our top award.


Daedalus
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/897a645a40c8674f6288f0acb5ffc2d9_zpsd0c9da3b.jpg)
They are the opposite of TAD – good to great at everything and a much nicer tonal balance.  Lou really stepped up his game this year, and the Ulysses sounded the best I’ve ever heard them.  Personally I still like the Athena’s the best, I’d love to hear them in V2 config. 


King Speakers
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/784c3beb7a6b9ffb7be2316cd65c317f_zps33ab7c3d.jpg)
One of the rooms we went into on Sunday during our “wander around and have fun” time.  Has none of the traditional planar weaknesses.  Strong bass, no need for a helper woofer, not thin sounding at all.  And it keeps all the strengths – coherent, fast, transparent, and very little room interaction due to their dipolar radiation pattern.  I consider this one of our best “discoveries” this year and will be back next year.


PranaFidelity
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/acfde40c96476c4668f4b986da4226a6_zpsfa3b65ad.jpg)
Similar house sound to Daedalus in a much smaller package.  Incredibly musical.  Just lacking a little bit in ultimate resolution and transparency compared to the very best systems.  One of the best value in speakers at the show.  Only suggestion would be to work on their aesthetics a bit, they deserve to look as good as they sound.


Fritz Speakers
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/a794c086c84eb7238ae2d23e58c2745c_zpsc5255084.jpg)
Everything I just said about Prana applies to Fritz’ stuff as well.  I’ve hit his room for years and years now and every time it’s the same – a musical balm in a sea of cacophony. 


Selah Ottavo
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/e7d87be34ec318168d99f5bf87fa60c2_zps46a881be.jpg)
Huge sweet spot and great integration/coherency on these guys.  Only thing keeping this room from challenging the very tip top rooms is the lack of room treatments.  Brian at  GIK could definitely help boost this room to the top echelon.  Well, that and  promising to never, ever bring Spotify to the show again!  ;)



BEST OF RMAF RUNNER UP (tie)

TAD
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0313ca2c5c4621f0c1e9f63b2244663a_zps14d990ea.jpg)
Every year TAD knocks it out of the park.  In very many ways it was clearly the best speaker at the show.  But I like a warmer tonal balance in my speakers, so for me it takes it out of the very, very top spot.  But from an imaging, clarity, dynamics, coherence standpoint, they are at the top of the heap.


Vapor Nimbus
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/0226aba93436cb02b1aca2b2422c26fe_zpsaceba885.jpg)
Last year the Vapor room was great.  This year they took it all the way to the top.  Just like TAD, the only reason I only don’t give them the highest ranking is they don’t have a warm tonal balance which I prefer.  But make no mistake, these are not analytical speakers, at all.  Dead on neutral is more like it.  Compared to the TAD room, they were equal in transparency and detail, almost as good at dynamics, and better at soundstaging and imaging.  Oh, and no surprise that yet another top performing room has room treatments.  In this case, THE BEST room treatments – GIK.


Odyssey Audio
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/202cd35f003abe323a8262ff42561df3_zpsd0f7637c.jpg)
Last year Odyssey got our best at RMAF, and this year they were even better!    So how did they slip back a bit in the rankings this year?  Because it’s a moving target, and other vendors improved their rooms even MORE compared to last year.  On the other hand, I should point out that the entire Odyssey system costs less than a pair of cables in some of these other rooms.  Yes, I am not exaggerating.  Don’t mortgage your house, don’t  sell your children, don’t harvest your body for organs to sell on the black market.  Just get the Odyssey gear and enjoy musical bliss alongside financial security!



UBER KING OMG VOICE OF GOD BEST OF THE BEST ROOMS (tie)

AudioKinesis
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/73a1cf506e8c561860a665247332d9d9_zpsc7427acf.jpg)
Basically did everything as well or better than any other speaker at the entire show, plus had an incredibly musical and warm tonal balance, which puts it at the top of the heap for me.  And, amazingly, they did it with zero room treatments.  And with a brand new technology, LCS, which debuted and this show.  Not even sure how that is humanly possible, other than they really have their act together.  AK didn’t make it to the last few shows, I’m REALLY glad they came this year.  One suggestion though – see Brian at GIK, get some of his incredible room treatments, and next year you might not have to share this award with anyone ;)


GR Research
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/f5ba47bead83e4ba646dc39b8505b38a_zps05f6cdfb.jpg)
Every year Danny has one of the best rooms at the show.  And every year he has the best bass of any room, period.  Not even close.  What has always kept him out of my personal top spot is that his speakers were never in the “warm and musical” camp.  That changed this year, dramatically.  Every single thing I would want in a state of the art speaker, these guys did with ease, grace, and style.  Slamming bass, crystal clear mids, effortlessly extended highs, sledgehammer dynamics.  All while maintaining an unflappable musicality.  And as always, they treat the hell out of the room with great room treatments.  The final result is out of this world.  Outstanding work guys!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Duke on 15 Oct 2013, 01:51 am
Wow.  Where do I send the checks??

Seriously, thank you both very much.   And congratulations to Vapor Audio and Danny Ritchie.   

Duke
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 15 Oct 2013, 02:44 am
I appreciate your Wiki wiki coverage of RMAF, but I don't understand how you can post that the Wilson Audio room was:

"OMG, the absolutely freaking best sound at the whole show.  No, check that, best sound of any show ever!  Best sound in the whole entire world, I mean entire universe!!!!!!" 

and then post that something else was the BEST OF RMAF.  :?

BTW, I'd love to hear the Vapor Audio speakers, but until they get a dealer network, that will never happen.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: SearchOfSub on 15 Oct 2013, 03:39 am
Thank you for the RMAF report! Just wondering, did Evolution Acoustics not attend the RMAF this year or did the other speakers mentioned here just sound better than the Micro Ones?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: FullRangeMan on 15 Oct 2013, 03:45 am
These awards are a useful thing to know who is who.
A system price tag would be interesting.
Congratulations for the good job.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: klaus@odyssey on 15 Oct 2013, 04:03 am
Hey Guys,

Well, can't speak for others,and OF COURSE, from our standpoint total pricing is the most important part,,,also, you always listen to a complete system,  speakers are just (albeit an important one) part of it......

So,  the system cost of the Kismet speakers, Candela pre, and the Khartago monos  is exactly  $ 6700.  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rest of the system then is obviously Quattro power cords, appr. $ 100. each, GIK treatments, which are by far the best and not that much $ at all....and then we have a 20 year old VPI table and arm, and a bastardized vdHul cart,  don't really know what the $ would be,  but look at under 4k used....as for the CD Player,  it was probably the most expensive part as it was from Symphonic Line to stay in the family....older unit,  look at about 3-4 K used.

Oh yes, and the phono stage,  $ 1,900 for the 2 piece reference units.

So,  figuring with either digitall or analog, you're somewhat in the 10 K neighborhood for the COMPLETE rig....

Late,
Klaus
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: brj on 15 Oct 2013, 04:13 am
Klaus, what GIK components were specifically used in your room, and what was their total cost?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: klaus@odyssey on 15 Oct 2013, 04:14 am
Would be a question for Bryan......also, forgot the furniture, which to me is also an integral part,  especially since I make them now...the rack shown and used is in the $ 1,500, range.................
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 15 Oct 2013, 04:31 am
Thanks much guys! great company to be put in with, I did get a chance to hear Duke's newest and was VERY impressed, and I always like the TAD speakers, of course both Duke and Andrew are true gems as people!
I wish I had been able to get to the room with the Vapor but I had to work and the two hotel gig just didn't make that possible.

anyhow thanks again and I'll try harder to get that bass bloom out of the room next year  :wink:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: gregfisk on 15 Oct 2013, 05:59 am
I appreciate your Wiki wiki coverage of RMAF, but I don't understand how you can post that the Wilson Audio room was:

"OMG, the absolutely freaking best sound at the whole show.  No, check that, best sound of any show ever!  Best sound in the whole entire world, I mean entire universe!!!!!!" 

and then post that something else was the BEST OF RMAF.  :?

BTW, I'd love to hear the Vapor Audio speakers, but until they get a dealer network, that will never happen.

I believe It was a joke, if you read the whole paragragh I don't think they even got in.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: FullRangeMan on 15 Oct 2013, 06:10 am
I believe It was a joke, if you read the whole paragragh I don't think they even got in.
With those multi ways monsters it is a joke indeed.
Usually this brand make sound is a room, not music.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 15 Oct 2013, 06:28 am
To clear up any confusion, here is my full review of the Wilson room:

Quote
Wilson Room

OMG, the absolutely freaking best sound at the whole show.  No, check that, best sound of any show ever!  Best sound in the whole entire world, I mean entire universe!!!!!!

But I have to warn you, only the cool kids are allowed access to this room.  Press badges seem to the be magical, golden key to unlock the doors to this mythical realm of audio bliss.

No, not really.  We were actually turned away at the door and informed that "structured" presentations were being done and allowing us in 5 minutes after a demo started was on par with showing up late to the ballet.  NO WILSON FOR YOU!!!!!!!!  Wow, 2 dickish rooms in a row.  Amazing.

And lest you have any more questions about how I feel, someone else asked about Wilson in the show threads and this was my response:

Quote
Yes, I can say the sound from the lobby outside their locked doors was awesome!

I don't care how good it sounded, they were dicks.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: brj on 15 Oct 2013, 07:29 am
For what it's worth, the Wilson demo was fairly impressive on several fronts, many having to do with the people involved as much as the gear.  I've definitely heard Wilson systems that I didn't care for, but this wasn't one of them.  (And the fact that I will never be able to afford the system displayed did nothing to diminish my enjoyment of the demo.)  David Wilson flew to Denver in July to scout out possible rooms, performed acoustic measurements of the room in which they ultimately demoed, and selected the system to match.  The intent was to bring a system that they felt highlighted the limits of what is possible the realm of audio reproduction, and to that end they chose to play select songs intended to spotlight particular areas of focus (sound stage, imaging, etc.), rather than open it up to walk-in music.  Some of the selections were recorded by David Wilson himself, which are starting to get released again (http://www.wilsonaudio.com/wilson-audiophile.php).  The U.S. Air Force wind band piece recorded in the late 70s I enjoyed in particular, and the conductor was actually in the audience later that day.  During the session that I attended, the audience included John Curl, who designed one of the microphone pre-amps used in some of the recordings as well as the Parasound amps used to drive the subs, and 3 different recording engineers.  (They were rather notable ones from what I've been told, though I don't know the profession well enough to judge myself.)

There were positives and negatives to the scheduled, fixed demo approach they selected.  To be frank, I was slightly annoyed that they were running late, as I felt that they should keep to their schedule if that was their chosen format.  In addition, had I actually been looking to buy, I definitely would have been frustrated at the inability to play my own music, though I suspect some accommodation could have been made had that actually been the case.  As it was, I was happy to be exposed to several new high quality recordings that I hadn't heard, and on a system that was certainly impressive even if it might not be everyone's personal choice.  The biggest benefit in my mind, however, was that I could actually hear the music.  No one was talking during the demo when the music was playing.  Perhaps T&P didn't have to worry about that thanks to their press badge, but I can't tell you how many rooms I walked out of during the show because the room proprietors, much less visitors, were talking over the music.  And besides enjoying the music, the experience was further accented by the chance to talk to some of these long-time audiophiles to learn of their rather interesting audio journeys from within the business.  (Despite Wilson's current success, for example, I found it interesting to learn that the company was surviving at one point thanks solely to having its costs spread across 17 credit cards.  I'm no more or less likely to buy a speaker because of this, but I do admire perseverance.)

For what it's worth, I enjoyed some of the recordings in the IsoMike room as well, which was also not accepting walk-in music.  (Though I would have enjoyed demoing the DAC2X they were using...)

For perspective, I went to the show to meet both new and old friends and wander where my interests took me.  I had only a small number of "target" rooms, and the rest were opportunistic.  TAD, Marten, Bryston, Emerald Physics, GR, Daedalus, AudioKinesis, Vapor and Odyssey were all on my hit list, for example, whereas Wilson initially wasn't.  Those rooms covered everything from the modest to the mega-buck.  I wasn't researching any specific gear besides room treatments and the occasional DAC, and I wasn't looking to buy, so I wasn't carrying music and didn't have specific demands or expectations of the vendors.  I'm always interested in what sounds good, however, and if the approach leans in a different direction than my current philosophy, then I consider that exciting and a chance to learn.  This made for a fun, relaxing weekend.

Take it for what you will...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: KJ on 15 Oct 2013, 12:47 pm
Quote from: brj
I can't tell you how many rooms I walked out of during the show because the room proprietors, much less visitors, were talking over the music.

Or worse yet, having the host stand in front of the speaker while trying to listen (oddly enough, it was in the "uber king best of the best" AudioKinesis room).  I would think that one is in the demo room 101 manual somewhere, but perhaps they mistook it for room treatments.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: a.wayne on 15 Oct 2013, 12:52 pm
 Thanks for the post BRJ , it does appear after talking to to others , Wilson and the big Lansche's were top tier standouts ...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: BobM on 15 Oct 2013, 01:07 pm
Congrats to GR and Dodd on their outstanding sound. But one vendor in that room is not credited and I'm certain contributed a lot to the overall beauty of the sound. Please don't forget that the system was powered with Triode Wire Labs cables.

Congrats Triode Pete!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: sharpsuxx on 15 Oct 2013, 02:13 pm
Great Job Danny and Ryan, its great to see that my Cirrus' speaker pedigree is growing.  Best in show mentions 2 years in a row for Vapor,  by as far as I'm concerned the best coverage of RMAF you can find.  I hope that the emergence of these cottage industry guys shakes up the old establishment of high end audio to make things competitive again.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Don_S on 15 Oct 2013, 02:35 pm
brj,

Thank you for adding perspective to the Wilson saga.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Don_S on 15 Oct 2013, 02:40 pm
Pez and Tyson,  Thank you for a great show report.  :thumb:  I am looking for the "perfect" speaker for me so I wrote down most of the speakers you mention in this thread for further research and hopefully to hear them someday.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: George3 on 15 Oct 2013, 03:57 pm
P&T,


Having attended the RMAF for many years and with this year being no
exception, I always enjoy your musings, photos and impressions of the
many rooms you visited.  This year, I cannot help being struck by the
fact that your selections for "best of show", out of the hundred plus
exhibitions, are most overwhelmingly selected from your site sponsors.

Throw out some super high-end players such as TAD and MBL and several
non-competitive players (to your site sponsors) and it becomes rather
obvious that the co-inkeydink is anything but.  Surely, should any
audio publication or web site have incurred such skewed statistics
they would, no doubt, raise eyebrows as mine were raised upon reading
your results.

I am most fully aware that these are your personal findings and while
I do not take issue with any specific selection per say, I do believe
that when results are so blatantly lopsided in this manner it only
calls to question your agenda and objectivity.

While I appreciate your caveat that you were unable to visit all the
rooms, perhaps you should also note that you did, at a minimum, visit
your sponsors’ rooms.  This perhaps may entice manufacturers to become
Site Sponsors so that their chances of being recognized next year
would be significantly enhanced.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Rick Craig on 15 Oct 2013, 03:58 pm
Thanks for your comments on the Ottavo. As a sidenote, all of the demo material I brought consisted of wave files ripped from CD's. Ryan wanted to use Spotify in case someone requested music that we didn't have (or that they didn't have on CD with them). I told him that MP3's were not the way to go but some tracks actually sounded better than I expected.  :)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Oct 2013, 04:15 pm
George3,  I think being a site sponsor is likely to get you a visit from other members of AC because we communicate on this website and it's nice to meet the folks IRL. Also, you will notice a lot of manufacturers who are represented on AC and many that are praised here sell direct to the public with no middleman, which means they can offer a value for the money that competitors using a traditional distribution model can't match. And, if someone is willing to start down such a path, they are usually convinced they have something of value to offer and are staking their business on it. So, it's no surprise to me that many of the best systems and best value for the money come from small manufacturers who sell direct, and many of those manufacturers do happen to have a forum on AC because it helps get the word out on their product... many small direct-sales manufacturers don't have the cash to throw around for advertising either. So in conclusion I agree with you, but it's not because of bias, it's because there are a lot of very high quality direct-sales manufacturers on Audiocircle.

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dflee on 15 Oct 2013, 04:20 pm
Was PI Audio represented in the GR room? Who's speaker wire was used and what IC?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: AJinFLA on 15 Oct 2013, 04:20 pm
While I appreciate your caveat that you were unable to visit all the
rooms, perhaps you should also note that you did, at a minimum, visit
your sponsors’ rooms.  This perhaps may entice manufacturers to become
Site Sponsors so that their chances of being recognized next year
would be significantly enhanced.
Hmmm, I better pony up, or maybe send them checks directly (hey, Duke mentioned it)?
That or Tyson could create a "Chopper Liver" or "Best of the Nobody's" category.

cheers,

AJ

p.s. the above may have been said tongue firmly planted in cheek (and clearly the free beer thing didn't work).
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dBe on 15 Oct 2013, 04:36 pm
Congrats to GR and Dodd on their outstanding sound. But one vendor in that room is not credited and I'm certain contributed a lot to the overall beauty of the sound. Please don't forget that the system was powered with Triode Wire Labs cables.

Congrats Triode Pete!
I wish I could have been at the show this year in our room.  I miss seeing Danny, Eric, Pete, Gary and all of the friends that we've made over the years.

To read about the sound at the show and not being immersed in it is a bummer.   :?

Thanks to Tyson and Pez, too.  Always a hoot to talk to and they never pull punches...  I liked the Wilson review.  Same suckey attitude as last year.

Lou always has a good sounding room and I really was looking forward to the Vapor Audio room.  Duke...  Awesome!

Next year, God Willing!.

Dave
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 15 Oct 2013, 04:46 pm
P&T,


Having attended the RMAF for many years and with this year being no
exception, I always enjoy your musings, photos and impressions of the
many rooms you visited.  This year, I cannot help being struck by the
fact that your selections for "best of show", out of the hundred plus
exhibitions, are most overwhelmingly selected from your site sponsors.

Throw out some super high-end players such as TAD and MBL and several
non-competitive players (to your site sponsors) and it becomes rather
obvious that the co-inkeydink is anything but.  Surely, should any
audio publication or web site have incurred such skewed statistics
they would, no doubt, raise eyebrows as mine were raised upon reading
your results.

I am most fully aware that these are your personal findings and while
I do not take issue with any specific selection per say, I do believe
that when results are so blatantly lopsided in this manner it only
calls to question your agenda and objectivity.

While I appreciate your caveat that you were unable to visit all the
rooms, perhaps you should also note that you did, at a minimum, visit
your sponsors’ rooms.  This perhaps may entice manufacturers to become
Site Sponsors so that their chances of being recognized next year
would be significantly enhanced.

George lets clear a few things up. First I want to just put it out there that I find this HIGHLY insulting. Second I would like to also point out that historically speaking we haven't always visited audiocircle vendors and guess what? We got massive MASSIVE shit for that. So we're in a no win situation with guys like you.

All that said I want to clear up some of the misinformation you posted. First Tyson and Pez are just that, two dudes posting impressions on the internet at an audio website. We have NO sponsors. The only 'vested interest' we have in this site is that it continues to be around and a great place. Beyond that we get no money or incentive otherwise to do what we do, we do NOT coordinate any of this with any other site member other than people who ask us to visit this room and that room (actual members not vendors).

Sometimes I feel like people have the memory of goldfish, but I'll put it out there anyway. We have been under fire in previous years for absolutely trashing what we've heard from AC vendors. Just last year there was some controversy in regards to an AC vendor and in previous years we've inadvertently started all out war. 

As far as us 'preferring' to visit AC vendors I can say in all honesty that yes, yes we do prefer visiting AC vendors. I would rather walk into an AC vendors room any show than a Wilson, MBL, or YG room. Because the AC vendors actually have a shared history with us. They are guys that I personally have known for years. They are guys we go to dinner with (and yes we pay our own bill so don't act like this is some sort of "AH HA!!! you are benefiting finically!!!!")  And lets face it, AC vendors are manufacturers that actually put themselves out there and make themselves available the way that other rooms either cannot or do not. They are great people, yes I actually go to the show just to see some of them. It's about having fun not about filling some sort of agenda, which I think I have empirically demonstrated we do not have.

Last but not least, let me just say it again. I am posting my impressions of rooms that I visited. I'm just a guy, with no vested interest in any of this, posting what I am not getting paid to post because I want to bring something to this community. Same with Tyson, same with DaveC and same with Standub or ANY other member past present or future who post here. And they all get stickied to the top of this forum because all their opinions (as well as yours or anyone else's) are equally as valid as mine.

And to the rest of you guys posting your many many thanks I appreciate that so much! That is the ONLY reason I do this.

Rant over.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 15 Oct 2013, 04:50 pm
Quote
While I appreciate your caveat that you were unable to visit all the
rooms, perhaps you should also note that you did, at a minimum, visit
your sponsors’ rooms.

One last thing, actually 'at minimum' we did not visit all the AC vendors. We missed quite a few. Immediately Bryston and Von Schweikert come to mind.

Again we (meaning Tyson and me) have no sponsors.

Oh and I forgot to ask you George, what exactly is your agenda?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Occam on 15 Oct 2013, 04:55 pm
...
King Audio, Shaker Audio

(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202013/784c3beb7a6b9ffb7be2316cd65c317f_zps33ab7c3d.jpg)
Very impressive system. Best Stat setup I have heard at this show ever period.

All connected via a loom of Kaplan Cable.
Just say'n....
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 15 Oct 2013, 04:57 pm
noted.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Duke on 15 Oct 2013, 04:58 pm
Or worse yet, having the host stand in front of the speaker while trying to listen (oddly enough, it was in the "uber king best of the best" AudioKinesis room).  I would think that one is in the demo room 101 manual somewhere, but perhaps they mistook it for room treatments.

Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing this out!  My apologies for being inconsiderate towards the most important people in the room - those who came in to listen.  I also talked too much in the back of the room during the music.   Obviously I need to be professional about the presentation side of things.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vinnie R. on 15 Oct 2013, 05:14 pm
Well, Tyson and Pez clearly DO have an "agenda" because they didn't come to my room!   :evil:

Oh, wait.... I wasn't there this year.  :green: :rotflmao:

Looking forward to RWAF 2014, and I enjoyed reading Tyson, Pez, and DaveC's coverage here
on AC.  I know its a lot of work not only visiting the rooms taking pictures, taking notes - but also posting
here and being actively involved.  That fact that they do it, with no financial interests at all, shows their
love of this hobby.

Vinnie
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: KJ on 15 Oct 2013, 05:37 pm
Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing this out!  My apologies for being inconsiderate towards the most important people in the room - those who came in to listen.  I also talked too much in the back of the room during the music.   Obviously I need to be professional about the presentation side of things.

No worries.  Your speaks still sounded pretty darn good.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 Oct 2013, 05:40 pm
Thank you Pez and Tyson for being the hardest working pair of audio fanatics at RM.  Congratulations to Ryan (Vapor Audio) and Dannie (GR Research). 

A show attendee/respected AC contributor told me that Pez and Tyson's show report reached such viral levels that one of the two most influential print rags offered them (heaven forbid) money, which they promptly refused, knowing it would permanently and negatively impact their work.  IOW, you can't actually buy such quality work even if you wanted to.

I will setup Dream Maker LCS here with Paul Weitzel modded Sony CDP (circa $1500) and Dr. Earl Geddes' old receiver reference (Pioneer 912, $125 used + my passive mods).  I'm anxious to compare performance in this room/system vs. RMAF.  Several visitors wondered what would be Dream Maker LCS performance with affordable front end. 

I spoke with Duke about a get-together here at my house.  We would all like to invite persons interested in Dream Maker LCS to a Tea Tasting Party/Dream Maker LCS demo.  There will be wide variety of "Two Bite" sandwiches, scones, and semi-decadent deserts here in Providence, Utah, seventy-five minutes NE of Salt Lake City.  We'll post date later at AudioKinesis' circle. 

My Berndt-Empire 208-Strain Gauge rig is down.  If enough vinyl junkies raise their hand I'll make LP a priority. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dBe on 15 Oct 2013, 05:46 pm
Was PI Audio represented in the GR room? Who's speaker wire was used and what IC?
Oh, yeah.  I was certainly bummed about not being able to go due to Gayle's Dad's health (still alive... amazing!!!!!), but my products were there is abundance:

UberBUSS with an early Mongo power cable for the subs
BatteryBUSSes for the MacMini and the DAC
USB cables, etc...
Greg's PI audio group diffusers (Mr.Ts and ABB Ones)

;and some other top secret stuff in development

With the impending surgery and other family issues, it was a hard decision to stay home, but one that had to be made.

Next year!

Dave
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dBe on 15 Oct 2013, 05:48 pm
Well, Tyson and Pez clearly DO have an "agenda" because they didn't come to my room!   :evil:

Oh, wait.... I wasn't there this year.  :green: :rotflmao:

Looking forward to RWAF 2014, and I enjoyed reading Tyson, Pez, and DaveC's coverage here
on AC.  I know its a lot of work not only visiting the rooms taking pictures, taking notes - but also posting
here and being actively involved.  That fact that they do it, with no financial interests at all, shows their
love of this hobby.

Vinnie
Vinnie.  See you there next year  :thumb:

Dave
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: rbbert on 15 Oct 2013, 06:00 pm
Not only am I not "sponsored", I don't "review" either.  But guess what, at both of the last two RAMFs I attended (2011 and 2012) AC manufacturers had a number of the best sounding and most enjoyable rooms in the show.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: George3 on 15 Oct 2013, 06:28 pm
Pez,


Let me immediately be clear and emphatically state that I have no connection, affiliation or financial interest in the audio industry.  I am but a humble audiophile.

I did not state, nor did I imply that you or Tyson were in anyway on the "take" and I am very well aware that you are providing this service, as you have done in past years, as a free service. 

My point, as I stated, was that of all the many manufacturers at the show an inordinate number of best in show just happen to be site sponsors.  I also fully understand when you say that you prefer to visit and commensurate with AC vendors as you have a shared history with them.  Perhaps then, these skewed results are just a statistical anomaly and I should just leave it at that.

Let me also just say that I am a huge supporter and admirer of our cottage audio entrepreneurs many of whom are in fact site sponsors.  I have greatly benefited from their direct sales to the public, their willingness to personally assist and resolve audio issues. Furthermore, I also appreciate and understand full well the role AC provides these manufacturers as a venue to the audio world.

Perhaps, therefore, the issue becomes one of the title used.  You clearly state Pez & Tyson's "Best of RMAF" which of course very quickly gets converted to AC Best in Show.  In your preface to your post you mentioned the 100 Miss America contestants, 70 of whom never got a chance.  Reminds me of an old Russian proverb, Life is tough and then you die. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 15 Oct 2013, 06:37 pm
To clear up any confusion, here is my full review of the Wilson room

Mahalo for clearing things up.

Since you didn't get in, here's a little video clip for your enjoyment. 8)
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152256387992656&set=vb.297880472655&type=2&theater
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: taoggniklat on 15 Oct 2013, 06:42 pm
I visit AC rooms because I am treated as a friend and not sized up based on my wallet size. I can go hang out, have fun and listen to some tunes on some really nice stuff.

And having "toured" rmaf with T&P, I can attest that the best of RMAF is not at all based on who is AC. AC just happens to have several amazing vendors that know how to make their products shine in a horrible environment.

I didn't get to go to many rooms this year as I was only there for 3 hours or so.

As far as my favorites:
TAD always engages me. I could listen to those systems all day long and be happy. Plus Andrew is entertaining by himself.

MBL - I never thought I would like them but this year I enjoyed them for the most part. There were some tracks that lots the soundstage and it was just a big wall of sound. However, they played some really fantastic tracks at the end of the day and the sound was big and engaging. I liked the reel to reel player grooving with MJ's Billie Jean.

GR Research - I thought it sounded good, just didn't connect with me. I am not a fan of the line array type. It didnt sound bad, just not my thing I guess. I prefer the sound of the Super V's.

I always like Salk. I wish that Jim would branch out and partner with some other electronics sometime. AVA is a great bargain but I think there are other options out there that bring the Salks to life even more. Plus the Salk family is just fun to hang out and share pics of the kids while listening to great music. The white ebony Veracity ST's were beautiful.

Daedulus sounded fantastic once again.

Improved room:
MSB Technology - just to put it out there, I used to work for MSB so obviously I have vested interest and bias. I always try to give them my own feedback on how to improve their setup and last year was a total disaster. The partnership with YG Acoustics didnt work out and the sound was just bad. I know MSB products so I knew it wasn't them (my bias of course!). I am not a fan of the big flat panel speakers, but they actually sounded pretty good this year. Much improved.

I was not nearly as impressed with Acoustic Zen this year. They always have good sounding rooms but this year, it lacked something.

I love Fritz. But this year I just couldn't hear what I loved about it. Maybe it was the time of day or whatever, it just didnt sound good to me. Which sucks because I love Fritz. Past years they have always been great. Maybe I am just getting old.

I wish I had more time to visit more places. I would liked to have hit the Vapor rooms and a few others but simply ran out of time.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 15 Oct 2013, 06:51 pm
Pez,


Let me immediately be clear and emphatically state that I have no connection, affiliation or financial interest in the audio industry.  I am but a humble audiophile.

I did not state, nor did I imply that you or Tyson were in anyway on the "take" and I am very well aware that you are providing this service, as you have done in past years, as a free service. 

My point, as I stated, was that of all the many manufacturers at the show an inordinate number of best in show just happen to be site sponsors.  I also fully understand when you say that you prefer to visit and commensurate with AC vendors as you have a shared history with them.  Perhaps then, these skewed results are just a statistical anomaly and I should just leave it at that.

Let me also just say that I am a huge supporter and admirer of our cottage audio entrepreneurs many of whom are in fact site sponsors.  I have greatly benefited from their direct sales to the public, their willingness to personally assist and resolve audio issues. Furthermore, I also appreciate and understand full well the role AC provides these manufacturers as a venue to the audio world.

Perhaps, therefore, the issue becomes one of the title used.  You clearly state Pez & Tyson's "Best of RMAF" which of course very quickly gets converted to AC Best in Show.  In your preface to your post you mentioned the 100 Miss America contestants, 70 of whom never got a chance.  Reminds me of an old Russian proverb, Life is tough and then you die.

That's just the reality of our physical limitations. I guess I don't understand your point other than to call into question what we are doing. If rather than cast stones you would post your own photos, impressions and take the time to contribute in a constructive way that would be a better use of your time. Then we would assuredly have a completely unbiased approach to things.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 15 Oct 2013, 06:52 pm
I visit AC rooms because I am treated as a friend and not sized up based on my wallet size. I can go hang out, have fun and listen to some tunes on some really nice stuff.

And having "toured" rmaf with T&P, I can attest that the best of RMAF is not at all based on who is AC. AC just happens to have several amazing vendors that know how to make their products shine in a horrible environment.

I didn't get to go to many rooms this year as I was only there for 3 hours or so.

As far as my favorites:
TAD always engages me. I could listen to those systems all day long and be happy. Plus Andrew is entertaining by himself.

MBL - I never thought I would like them but this year I enjoyed them for the most part. There were some tracks that lots the soundstage and it was just a big wall of sound. However, they played some really fantastic tracks at the end of the day and the sound was big and engaging. I liked the reel to reel player grooving with MJ's Billie Jean.

GR Research - I thought it sounded good, just didn't connect with me. I am not a fan of the line array type. It didnt sound bad, just not my thing I guess. I prefer the sound of the Super V's.

I always like Salk. I wish that Jim would branch out and partner with some other electronics sometime. AVA is a great bargain but I think there are other options out there that bring the Salks to life even more. Plus the Salk family is just fun to hang out and share pics of the kids while listening to great music. The white ebony Veracity ST's were beautiful.

Daedulus sounded fantastic once again.

Improved room:
MSB Technology - just to put it out there, I used to work for MSB so obviously I have vested interest and bias. I always try to give them my own feedback on how to improve their setup and last year was a total disaster. The partnership with YG Acoustics didnt work out and the sound was just bad. I know MSB products so I knew it wasn't them (my bias of course!). I am not a fan of the big flat panel speakers, but they actually sounded pretty good this year. Much improved.

I was not nearly as impressed with Acoustic Zen this year. They always have good sounding rooms but this year, it lacked something.

I wish I had more time to visit more places. I would liked to have hit the Vapor rooms and a few others but simply ran out of time.

We were wondering where you were. Next year we have to hit some rooms for sure!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 Oct 2013, 06:56 pm
Re. the title of this thread: No two persons together could possibly visit every room at RMAF.  This is immediately self evident in the following equation: vendors x (minutes per vendor + room to room transit minutes + bodily function time) / show hours.

The above equation always applies.  The complaint seems thus invalid. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 15 Oct 2013, 07:00 pm
Haha, this shit comes up every year.  My response is always the same.  Come out to RMAF and do your own show coverage.  Jason pretty much covered the rest already.  I will add a bit to it.  When we started we hit everyone we humanly could.  We were literally sprinting from room to room to try to hit every vendor possible.  But every year we notice that the same rooms sound good to great, and the same rooms sound mediocre to bad. 

So we started to cull our list.  Dynaudio, gone.  Focal, gone.  Nordost room, gone.  Bryston, gone.  Wilson, gone.  Magico, gone.  Rockport, gone.  Von Schweikert, gone.  YG Acoustics, gone.  Sanders Electrostatics, gone.  And another 2 AC Vendor are about to drop off our list for next year.  So yeah, when you don't know or understand that, I can see how it would look like we are biased.  And of course we ARE biased, but so is everybody.  We try to be as up front about our biases as possible. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: George3 on 15 Oct 2013, 07:05 pm
Tyson,

Now, it is clear.... Thank you for that.....
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: liddown on 15 Oct 2013, 07:14 pm
Did you guys get any time in the Lawrence Audio room... I noticed that no one else has mentioned the room (maybe for good reason :-) )... I was impressed with the new Double Bass speakers....

Anyone, Bueller......
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: rascal on 15 Oct 2013, 07:31 pm
Pez,

Perhaps, therefore, the issue becomes one of the title used.  You clearly state Pez & Tyson's "Best of RMAF" which of course very quickly gets converted to AC Best in Show.  In your preface to your post you mentioned the 100 Miss America contestants, 70 of whom never got a chance.  Reminds me of an old Russian proverb, Life is tough and then you die.

Well said- that was my impression too. More like best of AC- nothing wrong with that.  You cannot satisfy ALL the people ALL the time  :) And Pez/jason probably explained better AFTER being asked. Impossible for 2 people to do a good job analyzing many rooms- so I would rather go with quality than quantity.

Quote from: Tyson
Haha, this shit comes up every year.  My response is always the same.  Come out to RMAF and do your own show coverage.  Jason pretty much covered the rest already..

There is a contradiction here---That is why I believe your reviews should not be a sticky. AC members should post their own reviews- and that can be updated in events thread.  On top of the board are your sticky threads- as if it is 'official' AC review.

Pez, Tyson- please continue with your reviews- it is hard work and your write up shows passion you share.

But let us not make this devolve into something else.




Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 Oct 2013, 07:32 pm
Let me share this vision with readers, to get an idea of how seriously our dear Tyson and Pez attack this monster AKA RM.  I may have seen their images prior but never had the personal pleasure till Sunday.

We gots three rows of seats.  I'm sitting in 2nd row L talking to someone in front of me further L.  Already (I presume, did not see this) Tyson handed his CD to Duke.  From nowhere, like the paratroopers landing, this young guy (Tyson) is seated front row C, Pez slithers all over the floor getting images while music is already playing, Tyson's laptop open, typing madly whilst his head swings hither and yonder to the beat.  I know not who they are.

I lean over to read text and see Tyson's name.  I sneak over to Duke, whisper it's Tyson, ask what is his partner's name, Duke can't remember.  I sit down and become excited reading Tyson's text, then I remember Pez' name, I tip toe over to Duke, tell him the AC reviewers are here, and remind him of Pez' name. 

We all had a brief chat latter after Duke read the post in real time.

Poof!  They disappear like on I Dream of Jeannie, and are already at their next venue before I can high-5 Duke.   

Readers: you are reading the best show coverage I have ever read by anyone for any show.  These two guys take this job just one or two levels below the proverbial "heart attack."  This is real work, though they obviously love it.   
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pete Schumacher on 15 Oct 2013, 07:37 pm
Pez, Tyson, I am thrilled that Nimbus just got to be mentioned among your favorites.  But to make Pez's top pick with the Nimbus is simply humbling.  Ryan, Ed (EdRo), and I worked many long hours preparing for this event, and to have our work recognized by you two makes the 14 hour days not seem so taxing, at least in hind sight. 

Many thanks to Norman Yang for his gorgeous looking and sounding Due Volte 805 SETs, Steve Nugent's amazing DAC, and Mark from Antipodes Audio for his impeccable music servers and cables.  It was truly a team effort, and the synergy brought a smile to my face all weekend long.

To those who shared the fun with us all weekend, we look forward to seeing you next year as well.

 :green:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: taoggniklat on 15 Oct 2013, 07:39 pm
We were wondering where you were. Next year we have to hit some rooms for sure!

Been busy, started my own business. I had planned to come down Saturday but plans changed and I ended up having the day to just spend with my family. So Sunday was the only day I could come down.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 Oct 2013, 07:40 pm
Re. the title of this thread: No two persons together could possibly visit every room at RMAF.  This is immediately self evident in the following equation: vendors x (minutes per vendor + room to room transit minutes + bodily function time) / show hours.

The above equation always applies.  The complaint seems thus invalid.

Sorry, I quote myself.   

Is there such thing as a show report where the above equation does not apply?  The answer being no, then, if one has issue with this thread title, then one by simple reciprocal property of math must deny any show rating.

If you don't believe in show ratings, don't read them.  Certainly don't complain about their existence. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 15 Oct 2013, 07:40 pm
George,
No worries, I'm actually glad it came up as it allows us to address it head on.  I'm sure there are other people out there thinking the same things and simply not calling it out.  Some others dropping off next year are the Linkwitz room and the Salk/AVA room.

liddown,
We saw them the first day and put them on our list to hit later.  Just ran out of time.  It was probably the room I was most upset about not getting to hit - they certainly looked very interesting.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 15 Oct 2013, 07:45 pm

Klaus played us Ana gadda da vida while using an oil lamp to trip us out. A RMAF first.


Now that I'd like to hear, juxtaposed with a live version of the Dead at their best from that era. I actually heard that live in KCKS in (I THINK) 69 or 70. I've got a recording of the Dead's show that night.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: liddown on 15 Oct 2013, 07:49 pm


liddown,
We saw them the first day and put them on our list to hit later.  Just ran out of time.  It was probably the room I was most upset about not getting to hit - they certainly looked very interesting.
[/quote]

Thanks Tyson, and Thanks for all the effort you two put into the reporting... It is also valuable to compare your thoughts with that of my own...Appreciate all you guys do!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 15 Oct 2013, 07:51 pm
Ya the first thing we both said at the end was 'OH CRAP!!! we missed 5-6 rooms we wanted to see!' every year this happens.  :duh:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 15 Oct 2013, 08:00 pm
Oh, one other thing I noticed this year about the other people covering RMAF that was interesting.  The professional review sites weren't there to really do much evaluating of the systems, but quite clearly were there to pick up leads for possible reviews of equipment over the upcoming next few months.  They have no reason to work very hard covering the show since for them it's merely a place to get ideas on stuff to review and maybe build a relationship with a vendor. 

The reason they don't post on the sound of stuff generally is probably because they don't care.  And that's fine, that's probably how it SHOULD work for them.  But Jason and I are not professional reviewers.  In fact, because our stuff is almost all DIY based and we do digitally driven fully active speakers, we're actually very poorly set up to review anything at home.  So we are coming from a different place when it comes to RMAF.  We just want to hear how it sounds. 

And THANK YOU to those posting here that have actually seen what we do at RMAF in person.  Every year we make our process more efficient by slicing away every bit of inefficiency we can.  Jim described what happened in their room, and it's the exact same thing that happens in every room.  Music goes on.  5 tracks.  8 minutes.  3 tracks are mine, 2 are Jason's.  I type my notes while listening to the 1st 3 tracks, Jason takes pics during that time.  I vacate the seat for Jason on the last 2 tracks.  Jason types his thoughts, uploads the photos and his text.  I edit the post, upload my comments, and provide the editing and formatting.  Then it is "Thank you" to the vendor and off to the next room.

And that's just the process at the show itself.  Before the show gets here, we discuss and select the music tracks we are gonna use that year, what each one should test, how long each track should be, and what the total length of the demo should be.  Then I also go to the RMAF website about a week in advance, download the Excel spreadsheet listing all the registered vendors.  I then sort the list by floor and then by room numbers.  I then go through all our previous Best of RMAF posts for the past several years and mark them as "vendors to hit".  Then we look at the rest of the vendors to see which look particularly interesting this year and add them to the list.  Then we take requests and add the most interesting requests to the list.  And you have to remember that we are already AT CAPACITY.  So anyone new we add to the list means that someone else has to drop off.

Then, when we are at the show, we go methodically, room by room, vendor by vendor, floor by floor.  I keep the spreadsheet live and updated on my laptop as we go.  I have highlighted all vendors we want to hit in yellow, and then change it over to green when we are finished with that room and moving on to the next.  We are pretty rigid about following the list, otherwise it's too easy to get distracted.  If we see an interesting room along the way, I take a picture of the room number and we try to come back to it on Sunday if we can.

So again, I'm glad this all came up, because I'm not sure people realize that this much work, thought, and planning go into this every year from us. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 15 Oct 2013, 08:07 pm
Chuck Norris could up his game if he tackled his work with the gusto of you two! 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: rbbert on 15 Oct 2013, 08:10 pm
...

I was not nearly as impressed with Acoustic Zen this year. They always have good sounding rooms but this year, it lacked something.

What!!  You didn't love the new speakers I just bought??   :lol:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: nature boy on 15 Oct 2013, 08:14 pm
Tyson and Pez,

Many thanks for those of us who could not make it to RMAF this year.  Your observations, insights and pictures are greatly appreciated.  I think you have nailed the process and put many professional show reviewers to shame.  Keep up the great work!

NB
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 15 Oct 2013, 08:17 pm
Thanks all!  We can only do it because we work as a team.  If it was just one of us, the whole process would break down.  Of course, if it was just one of us, we probably wouldn't go to RMAF at all.  The best part of the whole damn show is getting to geek out with my best friend Jason for 3 days.  That was true this year more than ever.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 15 Oct 2013, 08:21 pm
Pez,


Let me immediately be clear and emphatically state that I have no connection, affiliation or financial interest in the audio industry.  I am but a humble audiophile.

I did not state, nor did I imply that you or Tyson were in anyway on the "take" and I am very well aware that you are providing this service, as you have done in past years, as a free service. 

My point, as I stated, was that of all the many manufacturers at the show an inordinate number of best in show just happen to be site sponsors.  I also fully understand when you say that you prefer to visit and commensurate with AC vendors as you have a shared history with them.  Perhaps then, these skewed results are just a statistical anomaly and I should just leave it at that.

Let me also just say that I am a huge supporter and admirer of our cottage audio entrepreneurs many of whom are in fact site sponsors.  I have greatly benefited from their direct sales to the public, their willingness to personally assist and resolve audio issues. Furthermore, I also appreciate and understand full well the role AC provides these manufacturers as a venue to the audio world.

Perhaps, therefore, the issue becomes one of the title used.  You clearly state Pez & Tyson's "Best of RMAF" which of course very quickly gets converted to AC Best in Show.  In your preface to your post you mentioned the 100 Miss America contestants, 70 of whom never got a chance.  Reminds me of an old Russian proverb, Life is tough and then you die.

Once again I want to thank Pez and Tyson for their hard work and fair, (though honestly subjective) reporting.

As for the Site sponsors, the ones I know sponsor not only because it is good business but because we truly appreciate the un-biased forum which AC provides. On the 'credibility' issue, many magazines focus their attention inordinately on their advertisers, often based on how much $ they spend. I even had an online mag owner once say when I asked him why he wasn't including my gear in a show report that " you don't advertise with me". seriously!  Pez and Tyson are just a couple of audio enthusiasts like everyone else and have absolutely NO vested interest, because of that I find their show reports and the others which come from outside the industry to be my favorites.

Maybe I took you wrong but it seemed that you have inferred that most AC sponsors are "cottage industry", perhaps for a few that is true but this has been my sole source of income for over twenty one years, I commute a half hour each day to work in my 4,000 sf facility in a commercial park, maybe semantics but it sure doesn't feel like a "cottage industry" to me. I know many other sponsors who create jobs and this is their only income.

thanks,
Lou
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 15 Oct 2013, 08:30 pm
Oh, one other thing I noticed this year about the other people covering RMAF that was interesting.  The professional review sites weren't there to really do much evaluating of the systems, but quite clearly were there to pick up leads for possible reviews of equipment over the upcoming next few months.  They have no reason to work very hard covering the show since for them it's merely a place to get ideas on stuff to review and maybe build a relationship with a vendor. 



Thanks Tyson, you are spot on! I hope I don't miff any 'professional mags' but then I am very conservative on the whole review process anyway. 
It seems to me that this show review syndrome of the mags has gotten much worse the last few years, especially for the online guys. I think part of that is the lack of funds since 2008 to adequately and objectively cover the sound of rooms at the show? Overall I am very thankful for the 'indies' who cover the shows!

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: standub on 15 Oct 2013, 08:36 pm
Did you guys get any time in the Lawrence Audio room... I noticed that no one else has mentioned the room (maybe for good reason :-) )... I was impressed with the new Double Bass speakers....

Anyone, Bueller......

So i'm not as eloquent as P&T in their room reviews, hey I'm an engineer I only know bad english.  However I did stop by the Lawrence room on Friday, personally they seemed very middle of the road for the show.  Not great, not terrible but ho hum.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: standub on 15 Oct 2013, 08:37 pm
On the whole AC vendors VS. the main stream vendors there is a big sticking point.  Why don't the main stream guys use room treatments??? That alone would help their case a lot more.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 15 Oct 2013, 08:40 pm
And we do try to focus on the smaller guys if possible.  I mean really, this show is one of the few shows that a lot of the smaller guys go to.  And people want us to hit Dynaudio or Wilson?  They are already available for demo in every major city in the country.  IMO, it's an absolute waste of time to put our focus there. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Scottdazzle on 15 Oct 2013, 09:02 pm
I had the good fortune to bump into Tyson and Pez a few times over the weekend.  By chance, we happened to be hitting some of the same rooms at about the same time.  They were working as hard as anyone there, manufacturers, vendors, and audio writers included.  I can't quibble with their judgments about the rooms and equipment and agree with them for the most part.

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: david12 on 15 Oct 2013, 09:05 pm
 To second everyone else's thanks, or is it 101st, on behalf of those of us outside the US who can not get to RMAF at all, or only once, as in my case. The main thing of value is that you give an opinion and try to say how it is based and what your priorities are.

 The contrast with other sites is stark, mostly a collection of photos without any comment at all, sort of audio softporn.

 As for the report, you clearly said at the start you were cutting coverage to  a limited number, to make a more detailed assesment of the ones you were interested. You never claimed to be making a complete show report.

 So this is'nt flannel, your report is second best to being there, which I will try sometime, if I can just find a flight less than £600
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: JoshK on 15 Oct 2013, 09:06 pm
Thanks for the coverage Jason and Tyler!

One quick question.  Were you able to heard the AK speakers with and without LCS?  I am just curious as to the impact. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: konut on 15 Oct 2013, 09:18 pm
Chuck Norris could up his game if he tackled his work with the gusto of you two!

I prefer to think that every year Tyson and Pez emulate Rocky Balboa. 
                 
 They eat lightning and crap thunder. They have become very dangerous persons!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dB Cooper on 15 Oct 2013, 09:27 pm
Wow.  Where do I send the checks??

Seriously, thank you both very much.   And congratulations to Vapor Audio and Danny Ritchie.   

Duke

With the 'We know and everyone else is a dope' attitude that is so common in high end audio, it is nice to hear someone in the biz praise others' products (Vapor, GR, Salk) even when they obviously have a totally different design philosophy. Makes me want to know more about his speakers. I suspect they're pretty damned good.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: taoggniklat on 15 Oct 2013, 09:31 pm
What!!  You didn't love the new speakers I just bought??   :lol:

sorry :( I wanted to like them again.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: avahifi on 15 Oct 2013, 09:35 pm
Pez and Tyson, thanks for your kind comments regarding the Salk/Van Alstine room

You heard the new Salk Exotica speakers with my highly regarded little Ultravalve 35W/Ch tube amp which we thought would be a great match for those 91 dB efficient speakers.  It did a great job for you with the "small" sound tracks, but not as well with your big powerful tracks.

On Saturday morning we switched so that our big Fet Valve 600R 300W/Ch hybrid amp was driving the Exoticas.  We assumed it would be overkill, but what the hell, lets try it.

If you had heard it with this amp driving it (both were using our new Fet Valve CF tube preamp) I bet it would have rated a straight A.  The Exoticas did like the Fet Valve amplifier more than I would have anticipated and very pleasantly surprised us.

I can also mention that lots of reviewers from John Atkinson to Robert Harley heard the Fet Valve - Exotica combination and we and Jim have lots of review sample requests to fill.

Frank VA
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: AJinFLA on 15 Oct 2013, 09:36 pm
Some others dropping off next year are the Linkwitz room
Hmmm, that's interesting coming from a dipole guy. I'm curious :wink:.
That was one of the few rooms I had a chance to sneak out and visit...liked what I heard.
There were a bunch of "Can't play your CD, so let us play some more elevator music and show you what are speakers are really capable of".
The other rooms (IMO) that were getting good sound, were my main man next door, Fritz (look ma, no treatments  :o :lol:), Grimm Audio (active DSP speakers) and the JBL room with the M2s (though I told the exhibitor I thought they would sound better with heavier toe-in).
Oh and btw, though jilted, I do enjoy you fellas coverage. Makes for good reading, don't see how anyone can mistake it for anything other than two audiophiles giving their honest opinions and having a blast, covering a boatload of stuff.

Why don't the main stream guys use room treatments???
They often do! Those larger rooms do a great deal to mitigate poor off axis, etc., increasing the ration of direct/reflected sound intensity. Plus not everyone wants their room to look like an isolation ward, especially with a bunch of audio lunatics running around..... :green:

Thanks to all the AC guys that stopped by, nice meeting a few new ones (JT, Anand, Noah, Sunil, Fritz etc) and the usual suspects (Triode Pete, Scott D, Woodsyi, HAL, Paul M, Hugh, Jonathon J et al)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Duke on 15 Oct 2013, 09:56 pm
One quick question.  Were you able to heard the AK speakers with and without LCS?  I am just curious as to the impact.

I don't think they had time for that, but could be mistaken. 

Josh, if you don't get a response here, try the posting your question in the thread over on my forum (in Designer's Corner), you may have a better chance of catching relatively unbiased listeners who heard it both ways there.   
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 15 Oct 2013, 09:59 pm
I did.  Huge impact.  Like black & white.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Duke on 15 Oct 2013, 10:19 pm
With the 'We know and everyone else is a dope' attitude that is so common in high end audio, it is nice to hear someone in the biz praise others' products (Vapor, GR, Salk) even when they obviously have a totally different design philosophy. Makes me want to know more about his speakers. I suspect they're pretty damned good.

Thanks!  You get my vote for best moniker. 

Too many times I've had my pre-conceived notions destroyed by a speaker that looked all wrong to me at first glance.  There's this little niche of things I can do with some competence, and I do believe in it, but I've heard too many really fine systems that take a very different approach to wax confident about having all the answers.

Gotta also mention Lou Hinkley of Daedalus.  I didn't make it to his room this year, but every time either my wife or I hear his speakers, we go, "oboy, there's our competition!"  And his cabinetwork is just killer.

I'm just really glad to be counted among designers of this caliber.  And I really gotta give credit to Jim Romeyn for his role.  Not only was the initial idea his, he then spent countless hours listening to many different variations (major and minor) of his concept so that he could tell me where the goal posts are.   
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Duke on 15 Oct 2013, 10:26 pm
Oops double post sorry! 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: DaveC113 on 15 Oct 2013, 10:47 pm
Duke, I think that's a great attitude. Everyone has different priorities in audio and few if any systems are truly "no compromise". I caught a bit of Sigfried Linkwitz's spiel on why his design is superior to "box speakers", and his system did sound good, but it isn't as good as many other folk's box speakers (your's included) for my preferences.

Slightly OT regarding dB Cooper's comment about attitude, I do agree and this kind of social perception is something I study a bit. If you get into social psychology it's a little bit discouraging how most people form their perceptions about other people, and how much the need for acceptance alters behavior. Sometimes I like to change my appearance and body language to see how it changes how other people perceive me, and I did at RMAF this year... Friday I wore casual clothing, basic jeans, western style boots and a button down workshirt, on Sunday I wore nice jeans, black dress boots, a drapey black tee and a very nice tailored blazer... and there was a significant difference in how I was treated. In general, folks seemed much more eager to play my test track and much more interested in comments I had as well. It's discouraging that the human race is so superficial, but it is what it is...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: *Scotty* on 15 Oct 2013, 11:00 pm
The old adage, dress for success is actually true.
People really do judge books by their covers.
Scotty
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 15 Oct 2013, 11:25 pm
Thanks to all the AC guys that stopped by, nice meeting a few new ones (JT, Anand, Noah, Sunil, Fritz etc) and the usual suspects (Triode Pete, Scott D, Woodsyi, HAL, Paul M, Hugh, Jonathon J et al)
:surrender:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: mgalusha on 15 Oct 2013, 11:31 pm
Another word of thanks for Jason and Tyson. I've known these two for over a decade now and I can say with certainty they don't kiss butt very well. They are telling you what they think, I am absolutely sure of it.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Jon L on 16 Oct 2013, 12:13 am
Congrats to GR and Dodd on their outstanding sound. But one vendor in that room is not credited and I'm certain contributed a lot to the overall beauty of the sound. Please don't forget that the system was powered with Triode Wire Labs cables.

Congrats Triode Pete!

Love those TWL "Plus" power cords in my system and would love to try those new TWL speaker cables  :thumb:

That's the thing about these shows, though.  Sometimes cabling or little tweaks/accessories can make such a large difference that it's difficult to isolate a component or speaker as being responsible for the sound in the room.  Kudos to Pez and Tyson for taking on the challenge of show coverage; I've tried a few times myself and know how difficult it can be. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: KLH007 on 16 Oct 2013, 12:50 am
I thought the GR/Dodd/Triode Wire room sounded best on Sunday after some needed break in occurred. On Sunday, in the sweet spot, it all came together, big 3-D deep soundstage, transparent, great bass, effortless, vocal focus perfect, dynamic, and dripping with emotion. The power cables and speaker cables were Triode Pete's, they really were synergistic with the electronics and speakers and helped deliver a top shelf performance. Triode Wire Labs has a great rep for AC cords, but his speaker cables are also making waves and as usual are a relative bargain. The Dodd tube preamp and small tube mono amps(34 wpc), delivered a dead quiet background that battery powered kit have a handle on. I may never have seen that much room treatment ever in a single room, reminded me of a Stones song, Paint it Black. Congratulations to all involved, Dodd, Danny, Triode Pete, and the marketing arm for the LSX speakers, Mockingbird.
 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Oct 2013, 01:15 am
Thanks for the coverage Jason and Tyler!

One quick question.  Were you able to heard the AK speakers with and without LCS?  I am just curious as to the impact.

A man named George purchased the show system Dream Maker LCS.  George was in the room when the following occurred: I switched the Effects Speakers off for a bit, then back on, followed immediately by a show attendee involuntarily blurting the "S" word.

George is a Marine Aviator.  He later told me that recordings reveal that pilots, just prior to crashing, invariably utter either the F word or S word.  He found it interesting that someone would utter the S word in a good way.  He said he attended several A-B demos, but never before did anyone reply like that guy did.

One other guy visited for about thirty minutes playing blues and roots music, eyes closed, smiling the whole time.  I asked him if he wanted to hear the Effects Speakers off.  He loudly and quickly replied, "No!  Why would I?" 

I was tired after the show, but Monday morning I wanted to return. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 16 Oct 2013, 01:29 am
Congrats on the sale!  I'm sure for a small company that's HUGE.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Oct 2013, 01:34 am
Congrats on the sale!  I'm sure for a small company that's HUGE.

Thanks Jason.  Incredibly, he allows me to keep them while he remodels!  Sorry I missed you Saturday while uploading images to photobucket.   
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 16 Oct 2013, 01:34 am
Thanks Jason.  Incredibly, he allows me to keep them while he remodels!  Sorry I missed you Saturday while uploading images to photobucket.   
You doing Chicago?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Oct 2013, 02:15 am
You doing Chicago?

Chicago AXPONA not currently scheduled.  Looks like next Dream Maker LCS showing is T.H.E. Show, Newport Beach, CA, 30 May-2 June 2014.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Danny Richie on 16 Oct 2013, 03:10 am
What a ton of work this show was.... :?

Hey nothing but big thanks to Tyson and Pez for taking the time. Their coverage is the best and fastest on the net. Feedback was posted to AC before they even left the room.  :thumb: :thumb:

Too bad you guys didn't get to hear our system Saturday or Sunday. We made quite a change Friday night that took us up a level or two. One of these days maybe we'll have more set up time and all the best tricks available from the start. Those speakers were really fresh too. The cabinets just arrived to me a few weeks before the show. So they really had very little burn in time. I could tell there was a little of that going on as the show progressed. It never fails even if I plan stuff months in advance it still all comes together in the last minutes.

Congratulations to Ryan too. Very good grasshopper.  :wink:  I was glad you were able to join us for dinner on Sunday too. Good to see you man.

And Duke, buddy. I am sorry I didn't get a chance to come see you. Sounds like you out did yourself. Congratulations man.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Oct 2013, 03:15 am
Danny, congratulations on a job well done!  I have nightmares just thinking about your crew moving those monster open baffle line arrays. 

I'll buy dinner Saturday night 2014 RMAF for the winner of the following contest: who ever got less sleep the week prior to 2013 RMAF, you or Duke! 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: minimus on 16 Oct 2013, 03:18 am
Many thank, Pez and Tyson.  Your commentary last year and this year has been really motivational. 

The professional rags make audio shows seem like high end fashion shows, where the prices are jaw-dropping, the audience is geriatric, and the salespeople are snobs.  Your perspective is completely different -- irreverent, humorous, sometimes brutally honest.  You findings are eye-opening and educational, particularly on the unexpectedly low correlation between price and performance.

I finally got off my butt after reading your coverage last year and went to the New York Audio Show, my first show ever. I am glad I did, and one day hope to make it to RMAF.  So keep up the good work.  Your coverage is the best there is.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Danny Richie on 16 Oct 2013, 03:47 am
Danny, congratulations on a job well done!  I have nightmares just thinking about your crew moving those monster open baffle line arrays. 

I'll buy dinner Saturday night 2014 RMAF for the winner of the following contest: who ever got less sleep the week prior to 2013 RMAF, you or Duke!

Speaking of moving those speakers around.... They did not fit in the elevators. We carried those beast up and down two flights of stairs.

I don't know who lost the most sleep the week before the show, but on set up day (Thursday) we worked on the room until 4:00 in the morning and finally gave up and called it a night. Then up at 7:00 am to get started on finishing up getting it all up and playing. I was running on empty that first day.

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Oct 2013, 03:50 am
At least we all get to drive a Ferrari for our efforts...you know, the little red Hot Wheels Ferrari from Costco! 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 16 Oct 2013, 04:51 am
All I keep thinking reading the coverage and show recap is what an amazing group of designers we have represented here!  It's safe to say that AC represents the best of the best, and choosing which is THE best is splitting hairs.  All of these incredible designers being under one roof is really resulting in us pushing the limits, and creating some fantastic options for customers. 

What's more, AC also has the absolute best show coverage from Tyson and Pez!  All the other 'paid' reviewers are still floundering trying to catch up, and what has been posted is nowhere near as insightful. 

It was a challenging show for us in many respects, but receiving the accolades made it all worthwhile ... and then some!  Normally at shows I get out of the room and say hi to all the AC'ers in addition to seeing some rooms, but my apologies this time for not being able.  It was non-stop problems in our room, that plus being at the Hyatt kept me pretty much locked in the room.  I really wish I could have heard some of these other amazing rooms  :(

Keep up the good work everybody!  It's basically performance and value vs. marketing and perception, and we're making some serious progress in the battle. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: asliarun on 16 Oct 2013, 04:56 am
Pez and Tyson, I am a relatively new forum member and this is the second review I am reading by you guys. Consistently the best reviews I have read in any forum or magazine. Kudos!

A couple of questions - what are the songs you use to audition with? Also, would you mind telling us a bit about the kind of audio system you normally listen to, and the kind of sound that you like?

Danny, a big congrats to you as well. You design some really good speakers. I wish I had made it to rmaf, if only to say hi.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Oct 2013, 05:18 am
Pez and Tyson list their show tunes in an earlier show thread...look for thread title "how we do it" or similar.  It was a killer, eclectic list.  One of the best things about meeting audio nuts is hearing great new music. 

I worked many CES and THE Show, but none approached the fun of RMAF (this was my first).  I'm sure a major reason is AC and its great members/vendor supporters. 
 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 16 Oct 2013, 05:23 am
Music
This year our music selection is:

Saint-Saen's - Danse Macabre (transcribed for Violin and Piano) - Shaham & Feltman performing.

Handel - Aria - Lascia ch'io Pianga - de Niese performing

Mahler - Symphony 5 - Bertini conducting

The Civil Wars - The One That Got Away

Tom Waits - Walk Away
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 16 Oct 2013, 05:38 am
Music
This year our music selection is:

Saint-Saen's - Danse Macabre (transcribed for Violin and Piano) - Shaham & Feltman performing.

Handel - Aria - Lascia ch'io Pianga - de Niese performing

Mahler - Symphony 5 - Bertini conducting

The Civil Wars - The One That Got Away

Tom Waits - Walk Away

Is that what we listened to?  :scratch:  :duh: :P
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 16 Oct 2013, 05:40 am
Jesus Christ, I won't be able to listen to any of those tracks again, for at least 5 years.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 16 Oct 2013, 05:43 am
Quote
Is that what we listened to?

Quote
Jesus Christ, I won't be able to listen to any of those tracks again, for at least 5 years.

Try this one next year.... :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahJCERfeehY
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 16 Oct 2013, 06:29 am
It's basically performance and value vs. marketing and perception, and we're making some serious progress in the battle.

Hopefully you made lots of sales at RMAF.

Other than AC, I don't see any comments on the net about your room.

http://www.dailyaudiophile.com/
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: kp93300 on 16 Oct 2013, 07:31 am
I have been following the coverage of the show by Pez and Tyson on the other side of the globe..
I can sense the excitement of the show !

Many thanks to the two of you for the coverage

kp93300
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: AJinFLA on 16 Oct 2013, 01:25 pm
Another word of thanks for Jason and Tyson. I've known these two for over a decade now and I can say with certainty they don't kiss butt very well. They are telling you what they think, I am absolutely sure of it.

Mike, missed you on my shout out list, it was good to meet you.
I regret not being able to go see Duke/James, Danny, Ryan/Pete, Rick C etc. Would have liked to have met Klauss too, have heard his stuff locally. Ah well. Some shows allow for it, other not so much.
Maybe Axpona?

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 16 Oct 2013, 02:39 pm
All I keep thinking reading the coverage and show recap is what an amazing group of designers we have represented here!  It's safe to say that AC represents the best of the best, and choosing which is THE best is splitting hairs.  All of these incredible designers being under one roof is really resulting in us pushing the limits, and creating some fantastic options for customers. 

What's more, AC also has the absolute best show coverage from Tyson and Pez!  All the other 'paid' reviewers are still floundering trying to catch up, and what has been posted is nowhere near as insightful. 

It was a challenging show for us in many respects, but receiving the accolades made it all worthwhile ... and then some!  Normally at shows I get out of the room and say hi to all the AC'ers in addition to seeing some rooms, but my apologies this time for not being able.  It was non-stop problems in our room, that plus being at the Hyatt kept me pretty much locked in the room.  I really wish I could have heard some of these other amazing rooms  :(

Keep up the good work everybody!  It's basically performance and value vs. marketing and perception, and we're making some serious progress in the battle.

+ 100.

My favorite rooms (in no particular order) were: Vapor Nimbus, AudioKinesis LCS, TAD. There were a few others, but those 3 stood out judging by how long I spent in them  :thumb:

Very enjoyable.

Thanks,

Anand.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dminches on 16 Oct 2013, 02:48 pm
Chicago AXPONA not currently scheduled.  Looks like next Dream Maker LCS showing is T.H.E. Show, Newport Beach, CA, 30 May-2 June 2014.

AXPONA is scheduled for 4/25-4/27, I believe.

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 16 Oct 2013, 03:34 pm
AXPONA is scheduled for 4/25-4/27, I believe.

Thank you, friend!  I meant we're not currently scheduled to attend...my bad!  I'd sure love to though! 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: bpape on 16 Oct 2013, 03:41 pm
We'd like to thank our great partners at RMAF - Klaus and Alex from Odyssey along with Ryan and Pete from Vapor Audio.  It's always a pleasure to work with people who are passionate about music and at the same time, offer outstanding performance at real world prices. 

I have had several people ask about the list of what was in the Odyssey room in terms of GIK products.  I've put the list in our circle here

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120589.msg1268134#msg1268134

Thanks to all who stopped by both rooms. It makes all the hard work worth it.

Bryan
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Jeffrey Hedback on 16 Oct 2013, 03:46 pm
and to Bryan/GIK,
That is such a wise approach of acoustic muscle and finesse (referring to the products and locations).  Great stuff
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: AlexG on 16 Oct 2013, 04:02 pm
Hey Jason and Tyson,

Just incredible...thanks again for picking the Odyssey/GIK room in conjunction with other "great company" as top of this year RMAF with Three Stars!!  :thumb:

While we work very hard every year to achieve the best we can do and believe me is not easy, we LOVE this show - and all the people involved that always include new faces, and the desire to listen and experience the emotion obtained in listening to good music.

I say it before and I will say it again..."you don't need to spend a fortune in equipment" to enjoy listening to music! This is Klaus and our objective and will remain this way for years to come.

Also and very important...were are absolutely sold in using "room acoustics"! We would never even come close to the complete synergy we had without room treatments. Thanks a bunch to Glenn, Bryan and the rest at GIK - you rock!

I like to thank all the AC's bunch (nuts) and everyone else that stopped by the Odyssey/GIK room this year.

All the best to everyone.

Alex

 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: roscoeiii on 16 Oct 2013, 04:22 pm
Chicago AXPONA not currently scheduled.  Looks like next Dream Maker LCS showing is T.H.E. Show, Newport Beach, CA, 30 May-2 June 2014.

Sad to hear. I was really hoping to get a chance to hear 'em here. Guess I will have to add RMAF to the calendar for next yr...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Eugene2 on 16 Oct 2013, 10:24 pm
Great report, I enjoyed many rooms, I have to agree the rooms that caught my attention were Vapor, both systems despite problems with the electronics on the Joule system.  I thought the sound was simply amazing especially at their price point.  Odyssey/GIK Klaus is a genius and comical.  I was simply astounded by the sound of the Final Pandora Headphones and AK120.  Grimm Audio and Lawrence Audio rooms were excellent also..  Best of the best for me were Vapor Audio and Odyssey I just felt they sounded more like music especially under show conditions.
Headphones I enjoyed were Final Pandora, IFI's stack, JH Audio and Cardas. :thumb:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: SlushPuppy on 17 Oct 2013, 04:44 am
And we do try to focus on the smaller guys if possible.  I mean really, this show is one of the few shows that a lot of the smaller guys go to.  And people want us to hit Dynaudio or Wilson?  They are already available for demo in every major city in the country.  IMO, it's an absolute waste of time to put our focus there.

You guys do a great job. Don't change a thing.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: audioengr on 18 Oct 2013, 12:27 am
For what it's worth, the Wilson demo was fairly impressive on several fronts, many having to do with the people involved as much as the gear.  I've definitely heard Wilson systems that I didn't care for, but this wasn't one of them.  (And the fact that I will never be able to afford the system displayed did nothing to diminish my enjoyment of the demo.)  David Wilson flew to Denver in July to scout out possible rooms, performed acoustic measurements of the room in which they ultimately demoed, and selected the system to match.  The intent was to bring a system that they felt highlighted the limits of what is possible the realm of audio reproduction, and to that end they chose to play select songs intended to spotlight particular areas of focus (sound stage, imaging, etc.), rather than open it up to walk-in music.  Some of the selections were recorded by David Wilson himself, which are starting to get released again (http://www.wilsonaudio.com/wilson-audiophile.php).  The U.S. Air Force wind band piece recorded in the late 70s I enjoyed in particular, and the conductor was actually in the audience later that day.  During the session that I attended, the audience included John Curl, who designed one of the microphone pre-amps used in some of the recordings as well as the Parasound amps used to drive the subs, and 3 different recording engineers.  (They were rather notable ones from what I've been told, though I don't know the profession well enough to judge myself.)

There were positives and negatives to the scheduled, fixed demo approach they selected.  To be frank, I was slightly annoyed that they were running late, as I felt that they should keep to their schedule if that was their chosen format.  In addition, had I actually been looking to buy, I definitely would have been frustrated at the inability to play my own music, though I suspect some accommodation could have been made had that actually been the case.  As it was, I was happy to be exposed to several new high quality recordings that I hadn't heard, and on a system that was certainly impressive even if it might not be everyone's personal choice.  The biggest benefit in my mind, however, was that I could actually hear the music.  No one was talking during the demo when the music was playing.  Perhaps T&P didn't have to worry about that thanks to their press badge, but I can't tell you how many rooms I walked out of during the show because the room proprietors, much less visitors, were talking over the music.  And besides enjoying the music, the experience was further accented by the chance to talk to some of these long-time audiophiles to learn of their rather interesting audio journeys from within the business.  (Despite Wilson's current success, for example, I found it interesting to learn that the company was surviving at one point thanks solely to having its costs spread across 17 credit cards.  I'm no more or less likely to buy a speaker because of this, but I do admire perseverance.)

For what it's worth, I enjoyed some of the recordings in the IsoMike room as well, which was also not accepting walk-in music.  (Though I would have enjoyed demoing the DAC2X they were using...)

For perspective, I went to the show to meet both new and old friends and wander where my interests took me.  I had only a small number of "target" rooms, and the rest were opportunistic.  TAD, Marten, Bryston, Emerald Physics, GR, Daedalus, AudioKinesis, Vapor and Odyssey were all on my hit list, for example, whereas Wilson initially wasn't.  Those rooms covered everything from the modest to the mega-buck.  I wasn't researching any specific gear besides room treatments and the occasional DAC, and I wasn't looking to buy, so I wasn't carrying music and didn't have specific demands or expectations of the vendors.  I'm always interested in what sounds good, however, and if the approach leans in a different direction than my current philosophy, then I consider that exciting and a chance to learn.  This made for a fun, relaxing weekend.

Take it for what you will...

I was annoyed that they wanted the Vapor room next door to not play ANY MUSIC AT ALL :scratch:

I think they really believe they are the music gods and the music police too.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dBe on 18 Oct 2013, 12:36 am
I was annoyed that they wanted the Vapor room next door to not play ANY MUSIC AT ALL :scratch:

I think they really believe they are the music gods.
They were not very friendly last year either.  Too bad they believe they hung the moon.  Personally I hear/see their gear as sterile, uninvolving and ugly.

Just me, I guess.

Dave
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Triode Pete on 18 Oct 2013, 01:19 am
Thanks Pez & Tyson... you guys did an awesome job (again)!

I do think the sound quality, in general, was way up compared to last year...

Good seeing everyone from last year plus it was great to finally meet Mike Galusha!

When I briefly went over to the Hyatt (where I was staying) during lunchtime, the Vapor Room sounded really good with the Arte Forme tube amps... During the demo, I did hear a few "sonic booms" crossing over from the Wind River (Wilson) room. Cool thing about the Vapor Room is that everything looked very expensive in terms of build quality & sonic attributes but was merely a fraction of the cost of the components next door!

The Scaena speakers in their glorious chrome sounded good too...

Tried to get in the Wilson room but it was locked... I did sneak a piece of the exotic chocolate they were handing out... so be it!

Hopefully see some of you in Chicago (Axpona) in April!

Cheers,
Pete
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 18 Oct 2013, 01:19 am
I was annoyed that they wanted the Vapor room next door to not play ANY MUSIC AT ALL :scratch:

I think they really believe they are the music gods and the music police too.

Seriously?  I didn't hear that ... wish I'd have known, we had plenty more volume we could have given it  :icon_twisted:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pete Schumacher on 18 Oct 2013, 02:22 am
Seriously?  I didn't hear that ... wish I'd have known, we had plenty more volume we could have given it  :icon_twisted:

Indeed.  I believe it was Wilson's daughter who showed up as we were setting up, either Thursday night or Friday morning, and asked if we were going to be playing music.  She sounded genuinely concerned that we'd pollute their rarefied air.  They thought our room was only for static displays! 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: TomS on 18 Oct 2013, 02:26 am
Perhaps you should have politely asked her to pay hush money for your exhibit room and all related show expenses. Take the cash and fly a few serious prospects back home instead and not have to deal with that kind of nonsense  :green:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 18 Oct 2013, 02:35 am
Perhaps you should have politely asked her to pay hush money for your exhibit room and all related show expenses. Take the cash and fly a few serious prospects back home instead and not have to deal with that kind of nonsense  :green:

... speaking of which, we'd love to have you here  :D  Guest room is always available. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 18 Oct 2013, 02:43 am
They were not very friendly last year either.  Too bad they believe they hung the moon.  Personally I hear/see their gear as sterile, uninvolving and ugly.

Just me, I guess.

Dave

Yes, it's just you.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Antipodes on 18 Oct 2013, 02:44 am
I am impressed with how Pez and Tyson go about it.  They bring familiar music and it is obvious watching them that they are listening for how the musical flow gets them moving, rather than being all analytical about it.  This is only our third show in the US, but the Pez and Tyson report is the one to read, from my brief experience of how accurately they describe the sound in the different rooms, and their relative merits.

There is no doubt that Ryan simply doesn't charge enough for his speakers.  The Nimbus and Joule were stunning, but kudos has to go also to the Arte Forma tubes and Empirical's DAC driving the Nimbus too.  Superbly musical products that happen to also be under-priced.  I was delighted to have our prototype top of the line DX server be in that Nimbus system - it was just beautifully musical - not something you hear often at the shows.  And Chris's Plasmatron made a great improvement too.  When we moved all the nice stuff down the other end of the room to run the Joule on Sunday, they finally sang, just in time for Pez and Tyson's second visit.

We did our best, over the weekend, to consume as much of Wilson's chocolates as we could, and take in the many nice folk they turned away at their door.  It worked out quite well for us, I thought.  Less busy than the Marriott, but we had a room that did the gear justice.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: bbaxter on 18 Oct 2013, 02:49 am
Just for another perspective on the Wilson room, a friend and I went there early on Friday, and were treated very courteously (despite the fact that we are no longer in the industry).  The demo was the most professional presentation at the show, and among the most impressive.  They even let us play a little of our own music! 
All in all, a very pleasant and awesome experience.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 18 Oct 2013, 03:02 am
I was annoyed that they wanted the Vapor room next door to not play ANY MUSIC AT ALL :scratch:

I think they really believe they are the music gods and the music police too.

No comment on Wilson's strange request to the kind folks at Vapor Audio. 

My primeVibe business has social media relationship with Debby Wilson, Dave and Sheryl Lee's daughter.  Debby is kind, gracious, and has been generous with her time.  IIRC Debby is married now with different last name.

   
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 18 Oct 2013, 03:04 am
Just for another perspective on the Wilson room, a friend and I went there early on Friday, and were treated very courteously (despite the fact that we are no longer in the industry).  The demo was the most professional presentation at the show, and among the most impressive.  They even let us play a little of our own music! 
All in all, a very pleasant and awesome experience.   :thumb:

"All in all, a magnificent experience of what high-end is all about." - Franklin A. Berryman,Founder and Editor Ultra High-End Audio and Home Theater Review

http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/rocky-mountain-audio-fest-2013-coverage/
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dBe on 18 Oct 2013, 03:19 am
Yes, it's just you.
Ahhhhhh.. Consistency.   :lol:

Dave
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: OzarkTom on 18 Oct 2013, 03:25 am
I have been reading all of the reports of this years RMAF on the net,and it seems everyone agrees the Zellaton room was a standout. Zellaton won the Best of Show at Munich this year.

To get any of these systems dialed in to these lackluster hotel rooms is a miracle. And all systems sounds the best late Saturday and all day Sunday. I tried this one time at the Lone Star Audio Fest. Friday was a total disaster.

I believe Vaughn speakers is the sleeper of the year, one to watch with on his newly designed plasma drivers. Plasmas are incredible.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: sebrof on 18 Oct 2013, 04:26 am
I was annoyed that they wanted the Vapor room next door to not play ANY MUSIC AT ALL :scratch:

Indeed.  I believe it was Wilson's daughter who showed up as we were setting up, either Thursday night or Friday morning, and asked if we were going to be playing music.  She sounded genuinely concerned that we'd pollute their rarefied air.  They thought our room was only for static displays!

Just curious, did she ask you if you would be playing music or did she ask you not to play music?
Two very different things IMO.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: persisting1 on 18 Oct 2013, 05:06 am
Just curious, did she ask you if you would be playing music or did she ask you not to play music?
Two very different things IMO.

Very true. This should be addressed.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 18 Oct 2013, 06:06 am
Just curious, did she ask you if you would be playing music or did she ask you not to play music?
Two very different things IMO.

I don't think Debby would ever tell someone not to play music, she probably wanted both rooms to have the opportunity to show their best stuff.

PS - I'll bet she didn't consume anything from the Vapor room.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: TheMD on 18 Oct 2013, 09:13 am
Hi,

First post on here from the UK to say thank you for the excellent coverage. Very interesting to see a different flavour to my mainly British system.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 18 Oct 2013, 09:14 am
Were the Lumina or Trilogy speakers by Clayton Shaw from Spatial at the show?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Zero on 18 Oct 2013, 10:33 am
Hey fellas,

I know this thread supposed to revolve around Pez and Tyson's awesome "Ultimate Guide to Awesomeness", but after having read a few comments that directly take aim at a friend of mine, Debby, I feel like I have a moral obligation to chime in with a few words of my own.  Hopefully this digression won't sidetrack the entire thread.  Anyway, getting right to it...

Debby is about as grounded and down to earth as it gets.  The only "posh" element to her life (that I know of) is that she owns a bad ass HT system - of which she never brags about.  Otherwise, she's a country girl who's never made a big deal outta her last name.  So the notion of her discouraging anybody from playing music in their own room strikes me as a tad unbelievable.  I'd wager that something was probably lost in translation.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: wisnon on 18 Oct 2013, 10:58 am
How was the Emerald Physics room?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Oct 2013, 11:33 am
When we moved all the nice stuff down the other end of the room to run the Joule on Sunday, they finally sang
I wish I was able to hear this myself.  When I heard the Joule's I wasn't that impressed....when I heard the Nimbus, I was like "Oh, OK, I got it now".  There is no doubt in my mind that the Nimbus was the best sounding 3/4-way that had a RAAL & Accuton Mid.  It's very well done and throw in the looks, and for nearly $9500 they're a bargain compared to their competition (if you want to call it that).  I'll go out on a limb and say that the equipment on the Nimbus was just better with the Nimbus.  Perhaps I'm wrong but the less expensive speaker shouldn't sound levels about the more expensive one.  Of course, this is my opinion so it doesn't really matter.   :D


Ryan & Pete- Great job!   :thumb:


Mark-It was great to talk with you and I appreciate the massive effort you put into your products.


Steve-Hmmm.  Great job on the front end.  Really, I'm impressed with the sound but you need to jazz up the casework a bit.  At $12k (for the package heard) it should look like it too. 


I'd love to see/hear what the Plasmatron does other than looking really cool.   8)   Arte Forma...for a non tube guy, they were pretty bad-ass.  Throw in the $6500 price tag and you're got yourself a hell of a set of tube amps.  Seriously, if I were looking for tube amps and they could drive my speakers, they would most certainly be at the top of my list. 

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: TomS on 18 Oct 2013, 12:04 pm
Were the Lumina or Trilogy speakers by Clayton Shaw from Spatial at the show?
Clayton told me he didn't get them finished in time so they stayed home to build speakers.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pete Schumacher on 18 Oct 2013, 02:25 pm
Hey fellas,

I know this thread supposed to revolve around Pez and Tyson's awesome "Ultimate Guide to Awesomeness", but after having read a few comments that directly take aim at a friend of mine, Debby, I feel like I have a moral obligation to chime in with a few words of my own.  Hopefully this digression won't sidetrack the entire thread.  Anyway, getting right to it...

Debby is about as grounded and down to earth as it gets.  The only "posh" element to her life (that I know of) is that she owns a bad ass HT system - of which she never brags about.  Otherwise, she's a country girl who's never made a big deal outta her last name.  So the notion of her discouraging anybody from playing music in their own room strikes me as a tad unbelievable.  I'd wager that something was probably lost in translation.

I don't believe she asked us not to play anything.  She just seemed generally concerned that we weren't a static display and that we'd be interfering with their demo.  I've no doubt that their room interfered with ours more than we did theirs, but I can guarantee you that we didn't ask them to back off Thor's Hammer.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: totoro on 18 Oct 2013, 03:18 pm
I don't think Debby would ever tell someone not to play music, she probably wanted both rooms to have the opportunity to show their best stuff.

PS - I'll bet she didn't consume anything from the Vapor room.

My experience with Wilson is that the sound sucks, that the people who sell it tend to be assholes,  and that the people who like  and buy their products tend to be status obsessed assholes with tin ears. You really are confirming all of my impressions so far.

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: standub on 18 Oct 2013, 04:29 pm
As some one who was there I have to say from a distance Debby Wilson(or whatever her last name is now) seems like a nice person.  I was waiting on the elevators and heard her talking to some one who had a Wilson system and she remembered what speakers he had bought.  Besides this place not many makers would remember this.  Now if you want to get into the Wilson fanboys.......those people think very highly of themselves it seems.

And to stick to the old addage, if you can't say something nice.....
Wilson, they're better than YG acoustics. :lol:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: EdRo on 18 Oct 2013, 05:15 pm
     I would like to use this "P & T's Guide to AWESOMENESS 2013" to point out that this review is AWESOME!!! I've looked for some sort of review regarding RMAF, and although it may be a bit early, nothing I've read on any show from any reviewer is as informative AND entertaining as this one. It seems that makers that have a budget for advertising get (or should I say buy) a review; whereas the smaller guys are lucky to get any mention at all, anywhere!  :banghead:Didn't the venders pay for the rooms? I'd think that RMAF would at least try to do a listing and review of everything in all the rooms that were paid for!
     Thanks again, you two, for the great job you always seem to do!!!  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Zero on 18 Oct 2013, 05:24 pm
Alright.  So I just riffed with Debby about the situation.   Since she's not a member of this forum, and since she's currently bed-ridden courtesy of a cold that she caught from her son, I'll take the liberty of posting on her behalf. In summary:

According to Debby -  the only thing that she recalls doing is asking her friends/family whether or not the Vapor room was static or active.  That's it.  She didn't care if they'd be playing music all day and has never cared about such a thing in all the years that she's been attending shows.  She was just curious.  Besides, Debby had to man the Wilson booth in the Marriot throughout the bulk of RMAF anyway...   It's also worth noting that nobody from Wilson Audio was concerned about the Vapor room 'interrupting' their demo. 

So in short, it seems like mountains have been made from (imaginary) mole hills.  I guess I'll just say this much on the subject  -  If you want to rant about a company or its products, fine.  But to call out a (good) person by name in a public forum who did absolutely nothing wrong, well, that's just poor manners. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: George3 on 18 Oct 2013, 05:27 pm
My experience with Wilson is that the sound sucks, that the people who sell it tend to be assholes,  and that the people who like  and buy their products tend to be status obsessed assholes with tin ears. You really are confirming all of my impressions so far.


What is it with the multitude of people here bashing Wilson and throwing out derogatory remarks and innuendos about them and other "expensive" manufacturers?  If one does not like their sound that's one thing, if one levels personal attacks just because of what they charge that is another. 

The simple fact of the matter is that companies such as Wilson, Nordost, Magico, et al, do matter.  Much like the often-used analogy to high priced cars in the auto industry, everyone who has a passion for audio benefits from them.  We do not have to own them to benefit from them. 

Personally, I most welcome the opportunity that these shows provide me to listen to as many audio manufacturers, regardless of their price list, as I can.  Whether I like them or not that is another matter but I know that I can sit down with any audiophile in the world and have a reasonable discussion of the merits or lack thereof, of many systems without resorting to non-audio expletives. 

That being said, when I read such statements that we don’t go into this room or that simply because they are perceived as snobs or too pricey I say, What? That is precisely why I want to go hear them. I want to know what a Beryllium, diamond tweeter in a box reinforced with six thousand titanium bolts sounds like, if only to be able to come home and love my system again or start figuring out a way to get what I heard.  If I walk into a Ferrari dealership and get thrown a set of keys to drive a 458, by God, I am going to drive it even though I can ill afford it. 

Preaching to the choir is great.  You are always certain to get an applause. How meaningful is that?  How meaningful is it to just simply discount a segment of the audio industry for non audio reasons or because your proletarian budget does not afford you the opportunity to buy it?   I, perhaps like some others here, have to live in the world of value where I can obtain the best sound for my ears for what I can afford.  I walk into super expensive rooms and listen so that my basis for 'value' is either established or reinforced.

I could care less what the salesman is like, more often than not I know more about audio than he or she does, I could care less what status a piece of equipment is going to give me simply because 99.8% of the people who walk in my home haven't a clue what this stuff is, much less would believe what it costs. So, I stick to sonics and can make do with discussing that rather than just throwing out derogatory personal generalizations which add little to a discussion.     
   
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 18 Oct 2013, 05:34 pm
Thread is sliding downhill ... how about we just stop talking about Wilson, ok? 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Danny Richie on 18 Oct 2013, 05:38 pm
Thread is sliding downhill ... how about we just stop talking about Wilson, ok? 

Or split the thread...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 18 Oct 2013, 05:39 pm
I agree Ryan. It's becoming bad form.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: totoro on 18 Oct 2013, 05:57 pm

What is it with the multitude of people here bashing Wilson and throwing out derogatory remarks and innuendos about them and other "expensive" manufacturers?  If one does not like their sound that's one thing, if one levels personal attacks just because of what they charge that is another. 

The simple fact of the matter is that companies such as Wilson, Nordost, Magico, et al, do matter.  Much like the often-used analogy to high priced cars in the auto industry, everyone who has a passion for audio benefits from them.  We do not have to own them to benefit from them. 

Personally, I most welcome the opportunity that these shows provide me to listen to as many audio manufacturers, regardless of their price list, as I can.  Whether I like them or not that is another matter but I know that I can sit down with any audiophile in the world and have a reasonable discussion of the merits or lack thereof, of many systems without resorting to non-audio expletives. 

That being said, when I read such statements that we don’t go into this room or that simply because they are perceived as snobs or too pricey I say, What? That is precisely why I want to go hear them. I want to know what a Beryllium, diamond tweeter in a box reinforced with six thousand titanium bolts sounds like, if only to be able to come home and love my system again or start figuring out a way to get what I heard.  If I walk into a Ferrari dealership and get thrown a set of keys to drive a 458, by God, I am going to drive it even though I can ill afford it. 

Preaching to the choir is great.  You are always certain to get an applause. How meaningful is that?  How meaningful is it to just simply discount a segment of the audio industry for non audio reasons or because your proletarian budget does not afford you the opportunity to buy it?   I, perhaps like some others here, have to live in the world of value where I can obtain the best sound for my ears for what I can afford.  I walk into super expensive rooms and listen so that my basis for 'value' is either established or reinforced.

I could care less what the salesman is like, more often than not I know more about audio than he or she does, I could care less what status a piece of equipment is going to give me simply because 99.8% of the people who walk in my home haven't a clue what this stuff is, much less would believe what it costs. So, I stick to sonics and can make do with discussing that rather than just throwing out derogatory personal generalizations which add little to a discussion.     
 

I can't tell if your reading comprehension is really poor or you just didn't read most of this thread. My particular snipe was in response to one particular poster who keeps bringing wilson into the picture in order to snipe at manufacturers here.

Really, it's been the wilson fanboys (or really one of them) who have kept bringing them up (and in a fairly snide manner).

Whatever.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: George3 on 18 Oct 2013, 06:24 pm
My experience with Wilson is that the sound sucks, that the people who sell it tend to be assholes,  and that the people who like  and buy their products tend to be status obsessed assholes with tin ears. You really are confirming all of my impressions so far.

Is this not what you wrote? 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: brj on 18 Oct 2013, 06:26 pm
I'm finding the thread rather illuminating, actually.

I could care less what type of sound people enjoy and how they build a system to reach that sound, and their preferences certainly don't affect my opinion of them as a human being.  (Though I'll let Tyson throw my previous bias argument back at me here if he likes! ;) )  Enjoying your personal system is the key.  Building a show system - often at the last minute - is challenging, and not even audio professionals, of whatever degree, always manage to pair hardware together to show of the constituent parts to their fullest extent.  What I find amazing is that people feel the need to tear down other systems and people at all, whether at a show or not, and in many cases based on very limited exposure and second-hand information.

T&P are correct in that some vendors do produce good consistently from year to year, but others vary, especially if the rooms are put together by a dealer looking to show a variety of brands.  And even the more consistent rooms still improve from year to year.  I always made a point of visiting the Daedalus room, for example, as I always found it very musical... down right toe-tapping, as a matter of fact.  But it was always just a bit shy in resolution in detail for my tastes, such that they never quite made my "I might buy this" list.  Had I remained firm in that decision to the point of refusing to visit their room this year, I would have missed out on the HUGE improvement that the v2 upgrade made to their speakers.  (And I acknowledge that the speakers were only part of the system - kudos to the other vendors involved as well!)

In terms of vendor behavior, one of the vendors that I admire most is James Tanner.  I've never met him or even talked to him, and I've never owned Bryston gear.  But, to my knowledge, he never says anything about other vendors or reviewers.  I've never seen evidence of fawning over those that give him a good review, nor evidence of tearing down those that give him a less-than-glowing review.  And I've never heard that he's attempted to stop a less-than-glowing review from going to press, which I know some other vendors have done.  The most I've seen him do to quote what others have written, with no personal commentary at all.  He lets his gear speak for itself.

I suspect that people will extract more enjoyment from life and audio if they listen (and think) for themselves, remain open to change, and don't dwell on the negative, either real or perceived.  I've found few things, both negative and positive, that aren't transitory in the long run anyway.  Heck, my own system has seen enough change that you'd think I had no idea where I was going or what I liked... which I suppose is actually true to a certain extent, as I certainly know far more now than when I started (which is still a tiny fraction of what I'd like to know and what others know), and more importantly, my personal preferences have evolved.

Enjoy your hobby everyone...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 18 Oct 2013, 06:29 pm

What is it with the multitude of people here bashing Wilson and throwing out derogatory remarks and innuendos about them and other "expensive" manufacturers?  If one does not like their sound that's one thing, if one levels personal attacks just because of what they charge that is another. 

The simple fact of the matter is that companies such as Wilson, Nordost, Magico, et al, do matter.  Much like the often-used analogy to high priced cars in the auto industry, everyone who has a passion for audio benefits from them.  We do not have to own them to benefit from them. 

Personally, I most welcome the opportunity that these shows provide me to listen to as many audio manufacturers, regardless of their price list, as I can.  Whether I like them or not that is another matter but I know that I can sit down with any audiophile in the world and have a reasonable discussion of the merits or lack thereof, of many systems without resorting to non-audio expletives. 

That being said, when I read such statements that we don’t go into this room or that simply because they are perceived as snobs or too pricey I say, What? That is precisely why I want to go hear them. I want to know what a Beryllium, diamond tweeter in a box reinforced with six thousand titanium bolts sounds like, if only to be able to come home and love my system again or start figuring out a way to get what I heard.  If I walk into a Ferrari dealership and get thrown a set of keys to drive a 458, by God, I am going to drive it even though I can ill afford it. 

Preaching to the choir is great.  You are always certain to get an applause. How meaningful is that?  How meaningful is it to just simply discount a segment of the audio industry for non audio reasons or because your proletarian budget does not afford you the opportunity to buy it?   I, perhaps like some others here, have to live in the world of value where I can obtain the best sound for my ears for what I can afford.  I walk into super expensive rooms and listen so that my basis for 'value' is either established or reinforced.

I could care less what the salesman is like, more often than not I know more about audio than he or she does, I could care less what status a piece of equipment is going to give me simply because 99.8% of the people who walk in my home haven't a clue what this stuff is, much less would believe what it costs. So, I stick to sonics and can make do with discussing that rather than just throwing out derogatory personal generalizations which add little to a discussion.     
 

Very well stated! Stick to the substance, leave the personal attacks out of it. I have opinions of some people that I would never express to anyone, and I'm sure their are others who have similar opinions about me. Life goes on.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: MaxCast on 18 Oct 2013, 06:50 pm
Let's keep personal issues and gripes about manufacturers out of this thread.  It's about two great guys reporting on an audio show and not about any particular company and how they do business out side of the show.
I really don't want it in quarantine where I'll have to clean it.

Thanks, and have a great weekend!!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: audioengr on 18 Oct 2013, 06:57 pm
JTW wrote:
Quote
Steve-Hmmm.  Great job on the front end.  Really, I'm impressed with the sound but you need to jazz up the casework a bit.  At $12k (for the package heard) it should look like it too. 

A major redesign and massive investment would be required.  The final system price would probably be $20K.  I would rather sell a lot of DACs at $6K and USB converters at $2K.  The margins on this are too small to even consider selling through dealers.

BTW, the Off-Ramp 6 will have the new casework, but will have a price increase.

I am actually looking forward to a new less expensive DAC design in 2014, around $2499.00, as well as a preamp.  The pre will be spendy though.  I intend to set a new standard for preamps.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: audioengr on 18 Oct 2013, 07:05 pm
     I would like to use this "P & T's Guide to AWESOMENESS 2013" to point out that this review is AWESOME!!! I've looked for some sort of review regarding RMAF, and although it may be a bit early, nothing I've read on any show from any reviewer is as informative AND entertaining as this one. It seems that makers that have a budget for advertising get (or should I say buy) a review; whereas the smaller guys are lucky to get any mention at all, anywhere!  :banghead:Didn't the venders pay for the rooms? I'd think that RMAF would at least try to do a listing and review of everything in all the rooms that were paid for!
     Thanks again, you two, for the great job you always seem to do!!!  :notworthy:

I agree.  Why can't the top press reviewers do a thorough job like this?  They are mostly after the hype, name-dropping and photos IMO.  Steven Stone is one of the few that actually brings his own reference tracks to the room, but nothing like what these guys use.

I think that Tyson and Jason should sell their services to the press.  They do a much better job than anyone else, and they don't have ANY conflict of interest.

Keep up the great work :thumb:

Steve N.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 18 Oct 2013, 07:22 pm
I agree.  Why can't the top press reviewers do a thorough job like this?  They are mostly after the hype, name-dropping and photos IMO.  Steven Stone is one of the few that actually brings his own reference tracks to the room, but nothing like what these guys use.

I think that Tyson and Jason should sell their services to the press.  They do a much better job than anyone else, and they don't have ANY conflict of interest.

Keep up the great work :thumb:

Steve N.


P&T already refused money from TAS.  They refuse to have their reports contaminated by the financial interests of the print rags.  Can you imagine their personal comments appearing in an established money making website associated with a glossy print rag?  I doubt it.  One inner cover page costs about $6k/month.   

These two guys must be the most reliable independent source of audio information extant. 

Though I'd love to see them paid, it's difficult to argue with their apparent belief that it would be all down hill from that moment forward.  They'd be just another pair of pro reviewers, the last thing in the world anyone would call them now.

Bless these two music-audio fanatics! 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 18 Oct 2013, 07:24 pm
I agree.  Why can't the top press reviewers do a thorough job like this?  They are mostly after the hype, name-dropping and photos IMO.  Steven Stone is one of the few that actually brings his own reference tracks to the room, but nothing like what these guys use.

I think that Tyson and Jason should sell their services to the press.  They do a much better job than anyone else, and they don't have ANY conflict of interest.

Keep up the great work :thumb:

Steve N.

You know, Michael Fremer came by our room Friday when I was the only one in there.  He and his crew of guys stayed for a good 20-30 minutes, and you could tell he was enjoying things because he'd say "We really gotta get going, oh just one more track".  It was his Reference CD of all vinyl rips, and they did all sound very nice.  Alas, he only covers analog these days ... so we get no mention.  But the times I've talked with him over the years he seems to be one of the more down to Earth ones. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Oct 2013, 07:26 pm
You know, Michael Fremer came by our room Friday when I was the only one in there.  He and his crew of guys stayed for a good 20-30 minutes, and you could tell he was enjoying things because he'd say "We really gotta get going, oh just one more track".  It was his Reference CD of all vinyl rips, and they did all sound very nice.  Alas, he only covers analog these days ... so we get no mention.  But the times I've talked with him over the years he seems to be one of the more down to Earth ones.
That's easy to solve.  Put vinyl in there.   ;)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 18 Oct 2013, 07:28 pm
That's easy to solve.  Put vinyl in there.   ;)

Just what we need, MORE hassle and work in setting up the room ...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Oct 2013, 07:30 pm
Just what we need, MORE hassle and work in setting up the room ...
Nah.  Mat from VPI did all of his table setups that were at the show.  They should get easier as you do more. 


I mean, the schedule of events are posted now so it's not a mystery when the shows will be.   :P
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 18 Oct 2013, 07:46 pm
Nah.  Mat from VPI did all of his table setups that were at the show.  They should get easier as you do more. 


I mean, the schedule of events are posted now so it's not a mystery when the shows will be.   :P

+1. Stick a direct drive VPI Classic (which just came out) and Fremer + Mat will be there...

I'll bring my phonostage  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 18 Oct 2013, 07:54 pm
I like bunnies.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: macrojack on 18 Oct 2013, 08:20 pm
I like bunnies.
Was there a PLAYBOY room? That would boost attendance, I bet.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 18 Oct 2013, 08:33 pm
I like bunnies.

I like puppies. Do you like puppies? I have some extra BBQ sauce..
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: WGH on 18 Oct 2013, 08:57 pm
I like bunnies.

Great idea Bob!

Booth Bunnies, more booth bunnies, that's definitely what RMAF needs!

I can't remember anything about the equipment in the NYKO Audio room, what they were showing or how it sounded.

(http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2005nykobbs_550x413.jpg)

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 19 Oct 2013, 12:05 am
Great idea Bob!

Booth Bunnies, more booth bunnies, that's definitely what RMAF needs!

I can't remember anything about the equipment in the NYKO Audio room, what they were showing or how it sounded.

(http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2005nykobbs_550x413.jpg)

Oh. Never mind. Forget the BBQ sauce..
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Saturn94 on 19 Oct 2013, 12:13 am
Pez and Tyson (or anyone who wants to respond),

Did you guys get to visit the Soundfield Audio room?  How was it?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Scott F. on 19 Oct 2013, 12:14 am
I like bunnies.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=28348)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 19 Oct 2013, 12:49 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=28348)

mmmm.. Okay, BBQ sauce back on the menu..
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 19 Oct 2013, 01:15 am
Everyone has been very civil since I posted about the bunnies.
Thank you all for your warmth and co-operation in the matter. Carry on men.

Bob
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 19 Oct 2013, 01:38 am

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88601)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: MaxCast on 19 Oct 2013, 02:18 am
Everyone has been very civil since I posted about the bunnies.
Thank you all for your warmth and co-operation in the matter. Carry on men.

Bob
:lol:  Every time a thread goes crazy we will have to...remember the bunnies, Bob's bunnies 

thanks man.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Zero on 19 Oct 2013, 02:24 am
LMAO Jhm...  :D 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 19 Oct 2013, 02:35 am
:lol:  Every time a thread goes crazy we will have to...remember the bunnies, Bob's bunnies 

thanks man.

Hey. With or without BBQ sauce, bunnies never hurt..
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Scott F. on 19 Oct 2013, 03:07 am
mmmm.. Okay, BBQ sauce back on the menu..

...maybe not

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88604)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: standub on 19 Oct 2013, 03:22 am
Hey. With or without BBQ sauce, bunnies never hurt..

I'll just leave this right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: KLH007 on 19 Oct 2013, 03:39 am
Pez and Tyson (or anyone who wants to respond),

Did you guys get to visit the Soundfield Audio room?  How was it?

When I visited AJ's room he was playing his new 2 way standmounts, with powered 8" and external amp driving the planar, crazy good bass and nice staging and focused vocals. The towers were as good or better than at the 2013 CAF. The big boys were dynamically exciting, deep soundstage, plenty of impact, natural vocals, very detailed, fun to listen to, and a true bargain.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 19 Oct 2013, 05:47 am
...maybe not

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88604)
I'll just leave this right here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg)

Forget the BBQ sauce. Forget the bunnies. I shall fart in your general direction.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: HAL on 19 Oct 2013, 07:14 am
On three, thou shall pull the pin and lobbeth the holy hand grenade of Antioch at thine enemy to smiteth them.  Four is right out.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 19 Oct 2013, 08:42 am
You know, Michael Fremer came by our room Friday when I was the only one in there.  He and his crew of guys stayed for a good 20-30 minutes, and you could tell he was enjoying things because he'd say "We really gotta get going, oh just one more track".  It was his Reference CD of all vinyl rips, and they did all sound very nice.  Alas, he only covers analog these days ... so we get no mention.  But the times I've talked with him over the years he seems to be one of the more down to Earth ones.

He is.... :thumb:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22691)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Dave G on 19 Oct 2013, 12:53 pm
I like bunnies.

Fear the bunny:  Monty Python killer rabbit scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmu5sRIizdw)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: david12 on 19 Oct 2013, 12:59 pm
Let's keep personal issues and gripes about manufacturers out of this thread.  It's about two great guys reporting on an audio show and not about any particular company and how they do business out side of the show.
I really don't want it in quarantine where I'll have to clean it.

Thanks, and have a great weekend!!  :thumb:

 I hate to disagree, I think 99% of us agree that P and T do the best RMAF report year in year out, partly because they give a report, or rather an opinion. They say what and why they like a room and how it compares with others.

 What interests me is other attendees opinion on those given by Pez and Tyson, where they think they may be wrong, what great rooms they may have missed etc.

 As for superior High End rooms, dealers, I hate it when I am assessed as I walk in, my wallet is secretly weighed and found wanting, then I am ignored. You really do get some mind numbingly arrogant, dismissive people, under theses circumstances. It really makes it hard to give their system a fair audition.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 19 Oct 2013, 03:01 pm
He is.... :thumb:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=22691)

Good to know!  Somebody else said to me something along the lines of "He's an egotistical jerk", but I thought to myself "He sure didn't seem that way".
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: AJinFLA on 19 Oct 2013, 03:23 pm
When I visited AJ's room he was playing his new 2 way standmounts, with powered 8" and external amp driving the planar, crazy good bass and nice staging and focused vocals. The towers were as good or better than at the 2013 CAF. The big boys were dynamically exciting, deep soundstage, plenty of impact, natural vocals, very detailed, fun to listen to, and a true bargain.

Thanks. Must beg your forgiveness though, RMAF and CAF??? Did you introduce yourself as ACer "007KLH"? Or were you in stealth mode?

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: AJinFLA on 19 Oct 2013, 03:27 pm
He is.... :thumb:

See what happens when you fall into the "Chopped Liver" list....no Lonewolf posing with speaker pics....no NY Rave 2010-2013 CDs... :P
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: blutto on 19 Oct 2013, 03:56 pm
I hate to disagree, I think 99% of us agree that P and T do the best RMAF report year in year out, partly because they give a report, or rather an opinion. They say what and why they like a room and how it compares with others.

 What interests me is other attendees opinion on those given by Pez and Tyson, where they think they may be wrong, what great rooms they may have missed etc.

 As for superior High End rooms, dealers, I hate it when I am assessed as I walk in, my wallet is secretly weighed and found wanting, then I am ignored. You really do get some mind numbingly arrogant, dismissive people, under theses circumstances. It really makes it hard to give their system a fair audition.

....hmmm....great rooms that were missed?....well off the top of my head there were the Harbeth and SoundLab rooms which are always magic meccas of music....and then there were the two High Water rooms which were in the words of many folks who saw parts of the show that T/P didn't visit ( yet saw enough of the T/P list to have some cross references ) simply the best at show....kinda ironic that something off "The Chopped Liver" list may well have snuck past the official party line and been bestest...

....and btw I do realize that it has for decades been very fashionable and a veritable badge of honour in some parts to trash Wilson but their big room this year was very very good...

....all that being said really appreciate the great effort that T/P put into their show report...it truly is a work of love and I look forward to it each year....but to draw a Best of from a very edited list of rooms is not really fair to all the great rooms that for whatever reason weren't lucky enough to make it to the T/P list...

Cheers
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 19 Oct 2013, 04:01 pm
Valid points blutto (similar to what others have said earlier in the thread).  It's not fair.  But in the case of RMAF, it's impossible to be fair in the sense that you mean.  And like my daddy always told me "Son, who ever told you life was fair?"
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 19 Oct 2013, 04:02 pm
....hmmm....great rooms that were missed....

but to draw a Best of from a very edited list of rooms is not really fair to all the great rooms that for whatever reason weren't lucky enough to make it to the T/P list...

I have never seen any coverage that went into every room, not from the Big guys nor small.  I've never seen it, and probably never will.  It's pointless to even bring up fairness ... fairness has nothing to do with it, reality does. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 19 Oct 2013, 04:22 pm
I also think people are taking this FAR too seriously.  Me and Jason are just a couple of imperfect guys with definite biases in our listening preferences, which overlap a bit, but not entirely.  Part of the reason we write in such an irreverent manner is to undercut our own "authority" so that people don't take us so seriously.  Maybe we should put in a disclaimer on every one of our posts (modded from South Park):

All opinions and pronouncements in this show coverage --even those based on real facts-- are entirely fictional. All sound quality descriptions are captured ... poorly. The following report contains coarse language and due to its content it should not be read by anyone.  Thank you, T&P
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dflee on 19 Oct 2013, 04:32 pm
So, is there a topic out there labeled Blutto's Best of RMAF so others like him can nit pick.
Seriously everyone who attended could start their own topic on the best of and I'd read it
just like I have this one. It is great to have someone  (intelligent hopefully) write about their
adventure. I wish I could have gone so that I could join in on the fun of commenting on my
opinion of the rooms but alas I must depend on the two intellectuals who put this thing together.

Don
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Diamond Dog on 19 Oct 2013, 04:49 pm
I also think people are taking this FAR too seriously. 

^^^^^
This. Oh, good God in Heaven, this...

D.D.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: rascal on 19 Oct 2013, 04:50 pm
....all that being said really appreciate the great effort that T/P put into their show report...it truly is a work of love and I look forward to it each year....but to draw a Best of from a very edited list of rooms is not really fair to all the great rooms that for whatever reason weren't lucky enough to make it to the T/P list...

Cheers

Well said- for me T&P RMAF coverage was best of AC sponsor coverage. Nothing wrong with that but I laugh when I read it was best coverage -shows fanboys will remain fanboys :evil: For such a large event I think you have to collect and read coverage from here, Stereophile, Enjoy the Musc etc. since no one covers everything..nothing is perfect but definitive statements make me cringe  :nono:

T&P effort and open discussion of preferences/bias- makes them honest- something which I do not find too easily elsewhere.

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 19 Oct 2013, 04:58 pm
Agreed rascal.  Next year our title for this thread will be

"Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF - the ultimate guide to AudioCircle Vendor Awesomeness 2014!"
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 19 Oct 2013, 05:47 pm
I also think people are taking this FAR too seriously.  Me and Jason are just a couple of imperfect guys with definite biases in our listening preferences, which overlap a bit, but not entirely.  Part of the reason we write in such an irreverent manner is to undercut our own "authority" so that people don't take us so seriously.  Maybe we should put in a disclaimer on every one of our posts (modded from South Park):

All opinions and pronouncements in this show coverage --even those based on real facts-- are entirely fictional. All sound quality descriptions are captured ... poorly. The following report contains coarse language and due to its content it should not be read by anyone.  Thank you, T&P

LOVE IT! This entire thread has been (and looks to continue for some time to be) very entertaining and informative. The only problem I have with it is I've spent too much time reading it and have neglected some charts I need to do for a gig this evening.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: macrojack on 19 Oct 2013, 05:54 pm
What T&P do is mostly just their fun. I detect no agenda and I see no reason for anyone to demand accountability or to question their approach. Attending and reporting on RMAF is not a closed option. Anyone who thinks they can do better is free to make an attempt.

But ------- these guys are well appreciated because of the infusion of humor and excitement that they bring. Since all of these evaluations and pronouncements are based on subjective preference, there is really nothing to challenge. How can they be wrong about what they like best? How can anyone think that?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: poseidonsvoice on 19 Oct 2013, 06:03 pm
What T&P do is mostly just their fun. I detect no agenda and I see no reason for anyone to demand accountability or to question their approach. Attending and reporting on RMAF is not a closed option. Anyone who thinks they can do better is free to make an attempt.

But ------- these guys are well appreciated because of the infusion of humor and excitement that they bring. Since all of these evaluations and pronouncements are based on subjective preference, there is really nothing to challenge. How can they be wrong about what they like best? How can anyone think that?

+1. Thank you sir. :notworthy:

Best,
Anand.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: sebrof on 19 Oct 2013, 06:14 pm
As for superior High End rooms, dealers, I hate it when I am assessed as I walk in, my wallet is secretly weighed and found wanting, then I am ignored. You really do get some mind numbingly arrogant, dismissive people, under theses circumstances. It really makes it hard to give their system a fair audition.
I'm not sure I understand this.
I've been in a whole lot of rooms that I don't want to afford, and considering that I DIY much of my stuff that's just about every room. But I act like I'm there to enjoy what they have to offer, not like I'm being judged. Almost always the exhibitor seems to appreciate my interest even though it may be clear that I have no intention of buying anything. If he doesn't want to engage me then I could care less, that's his problem.

If you act like you don't belong, you'll probably feel like you're being treated like you don't belong. Then it may seem like people are arrogant.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: OzarkTom on 19 Oct 2013, 06:15 pm
Everyone should go to RMAF at least once in your life. You will then appreciate P&T's reviews and comments a whole lot more. There is way too many rooms to visit and review in the short thee days the way P&T covers it. Pez and Tyson was the best.

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: trackball02 on 19 Oct 2013, 06:15 pm
Well stated macrojack.
T&P, you guys rock. I really admire your effort passion and sharp witted humor. It is not easy. Do you have any evil twins or clones so that you can cover more rooms next year? More please!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: blutto on 19 Oct 2013, 06:41 pm
So, is there a topic out there labeled Blutto's Best of RMAF so others like him can nit pick.
Seriously everyone who attended could start their own topic on the best of and I'd read it
just like I have this one. It is great to have someone  (intelligent hopefully) write about their
adventure. I wish I could have gone so that I could join in on the fun of commenting on my
opinion of the rooms but alas I must depend on the two intellectuals who put this thing together.

Don

....sadly its not a topic but just a simple solitary post because as much as anything an absolutely great job was done in this field by T/P though I do reserve the right to have an opinion based on what I believe ( and express it on a forum dedicated to the discussion of things audio)....and nit-picking?....nah .....just trying to put things into a more realistic perspective.....

Cheers
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Saturn94 on 19 Oct 2013, 06:42 pm
When I visited AJ's room he was playing his new 2 way standmounts, with powered 8" and external amp driving the planar, crazy good bass and nice staging and focused vocals. The towers were as good or better than at the 2013 CAF. The big boys were dynamically exciting, deep soundstage, plenty of impact, natural vocals, very detailed, fun to listen to, and a true bargain.

Thanks.  I appreciate the feedback. :)

I'd love to hear the towers someday.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: blutto on 19 Oct 2013, 06:47 pm
I have never seen any coverage that went into every room, not from the Big guys nor small.  I've never seen it, and probably never will.  It's pointless to even bring up fairness ... fairness has nothing to do with it, reality does.

....so "fairness has nothing to do with it"?....so exactly what kind of light does that put your placing in the T/P Best of sweepstakes....because if I were ever to "win" something I would definitely like to have everyone see that "win" as fairly achieved....but then again that could just be a failing on my part...

Cheers
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 19 Oct 2013, 07:02 pm
I learned that I liked every single system there and my case work is better then the Jeff Rowland stuff. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 19 Oct 2013, 07:15 pm
....so "fairness has nothing to do with it"?....so exactly what kind of light does that put your placing in the T/P Best of sweepstakes....because if I were ever to "win" something I would definitely like to have everyone see that "win" as fairly achieved....but then again that could just be a failing on my part...

Cheers

If you have suggestions on how we can be more fair, I'm certainly open to hearing them.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: brother love on 19 Oct 2013, 08:36 pm
....so "fairness has nothing to do with it"?....so exactly what kind of light does that put your placing in the T/P Best of sweepstakes....because if I were ever to "win" something I would definitely like to have everyone see that "win" as fairly achieved....but then again that could just be a failing on my part...

Cheers

We don't live life in a vacuum, & neither do reviewers covering RMAF. 

Do you honestly think Stereophile, Absolute Sound, etc. reviews every room at RMAF or any other show like this?  Do you think that they recognize smaller companies fairly at the expense of their PAID deeper pockets advertisers?

Maybe they should state "best in show of what we saw" ... would that be more politically correct ?

Great job Tyson & Pez. You guys are top notch & VERY entertaining.  Too bad some want to throw darts instead of taking what you say as YOUR opinions & your opinions ONLY ...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 19 Oct 2013, 08:45 pm
funny how these threads go off in tangents...

I've watched Tyson and Pez do this for several years and they really treat this like a serious job, they may well be the most fair and honest reporting of any show you will find. I often don't agree with their assessments or comments but I totally respect their opinions, among other traits these guys have very good ears and I value their opinions on room balance, tonality etc. anybody who wants to take shots at them, I would suggest they first follow these guys around before during and after the show to really see what goes into their reporting.
Everything about this hobby is by it's nature subjective, so I would think that if you take the money interest out and use the same criterion for each room ( they have a well researched disc which they (try to) play in every room, and you don't show personal favoritism (they don't as I have watched them struggle with that and they are very good at not crossing that line) then you have a fair though by it's nature opinionated report. also, to blow off venders who are rude or not accommodating is perfectly valid in my book. I don't sell to or do business with anyone who is rude to me and I would not expect them to.

on a side note I've really enjoyed the comments and attitude of Vapor! welcome to the wonderful world of audio biz and I really look forward to meeting you at the next show, beer is on me!  Yours was one room I wanted to hear but because of the two hotels it was impossible for me. 

last note, someone made a comment about listening to the mega-bucks high profile systems as that being a reference. personally I feel that is one of the problems with audio. For decades many audio designers have been doing just that, building systems to sound like other hi-fi systems. I feel that if you wanted a reference at the show all you had to do was go to the towers end and listen to a real grand piano and real violin. it does seem that many of the best designers have had real involvement in live music and THAT is their reference, not some highly rated mega-bucks system.  (ps no personal offense intended with this comment and of course there is the caveat that there are many ways to get there and there are systems which sound great and may not take the path I endorse)

see you all at the next show!

thanks,
Lou

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 19 Oct 2013, 09:10 pm
So is it P&T, or T&P?

I've seen it both ways, and I'm just trying to be fair about it.  :dunno:

Bob
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: DaveC113 on 19 Oct 2013, 09:40 pm
So is it P&T, or T&P?

I've seen it both ways, and I'm just trying to be fair about it.  :dunno:

Bob

I think we better go with T&P/P&T just to be fair. We wouldn't want anyone to think we were biased one way or the other.


Seriously, nobody can visit every room at rmaf, it's just not possible.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: persisting1 on 19 Oct 2013, 09:52 pm
If you have suggestions on how we can be more fair, I'm certainly open to hearing them.

You should both get seeing eye dogs and walk around the entire show blindfolded. The dogs can lead you to each room and since you can't see the vendor, you won't be biased. Problem solved  :wink:  :lol:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 19 Oct 2013, 09:54 pm
Uhhh, Dave....You seem biased by saying "T&P/P&T" instead of "P&T/T&P".
You sure you don't have some sort of agenda?  :nono:  I mean....let's be fair here.

I guess it's like my Dad said, "If you want something done right, do it yourself".
I suppose those bitchers will have to show the rest of us how and RMAF review should be done.

Cheers,
Bob

p.s. Oh, and don't forget the bunnies.  8)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: SteveFord on 19 Oct 2013, 10:04 pm
I appreciate the coverage for the steady stream of audio porn.
Thank you for bringing three days worth of beautiful systems into my living room courtesy of my laptop.
I'm looking forward to next year's coverage.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 19 Oct 2013, 11:39 pm
on a side note I've really enjoyed the comments and attitude of Vapor! welcome to the wonderful world of audio biz and I really look forward to meeting you at the next show, beer is on me!  Yours was one room I wanted to hear but because of the two hotels it was impossible for me. 

Haha, you wouldn't like me ... I'm a jerk.  But I'd gladly drink your beer  :thumb:

Seriously though, next show it's a date  :inlove:

Oh, and btw I've been doing RMAF since 2008.  Thanks for finally noticing  :wink:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 20 Oct 2013, 12:15 am
Haha, you wouldn't like me ... I'm a jerk.  But I'd gladly drink your beer  :thumb:

Seriously though, next show it's a date  :inlove:

Oh, and btw I've been doing RMAF since 2008.  Thanks for finally noticing  :wink:

they don't let me out much :icon_lol:

see you in Chicago, hope they have good beer there??

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pete Schumacher on 20 Oct 2013, 12:31 am
Haha, you wouldn't like me ... I'm a jerk.  But I'd gladly drink your beer  :thumb:

Seriously though, next show it's a date  :inlove:

Oh, and btw I've been doing RMAF since 2008.  Thanks for finally noticing  :wink:

Not a jerk Ryan, a grade A tool!!!

 :lol:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: roscoeiii on 20 Oct 2013, 12:41 am

see you in Chicago, hope they have good beer there??

Um yeah, the beer here is fabulous.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: ebag4 on 20 Oct 2013, 12:43 am
Um yeah, the beer here is fabulous.

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, Three Floyds Zombie Dust!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Danny Richie on 21 Oct 2013, 02:17 pm
I agree.  Why can't the top press reviewers do a thorough job like this?  They are mostly after the hype, name-dropping and photos IMO.  Steven Stone is one of the few that actually brings his own reference tracks to the room, but nothing like what these guys use.

Steven Stone is definitely one of the better reviewers. He actually spends the time needed to really listen and evaluate with music that he really knows. All too often most of the general press just shoot pics and write down what was in the room without listening to anything.

Speaking of Steven Stone, looks like he also agreed with Tyson and Pez.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/rmaf-2013-digital-products-show-report/

Scroll down to the section that starts with Best Sound (cost no object).    :thumb:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 21 Oct 2013, 03:38 pm
....so "fairness has nothing to do with it"?....so exactly what kind of light does that put your placing in the T/P Best of sweepstakes....because if I were ever to "win" something I would definitely like to have everyone see that "win" as fairly achieved....but then again that could just be a failing on my part...

Cheers

If you have suggestions on how we can be more fair, I'm certainly open to hearing them.

The silence, as they say, is deafening....
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Oct 2013, 03:40 pm
I'm pretty sure this is the thread that brought AC to a halt yesterday.   :lol:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: rollo on 21 Oct 2013, 04:00 pm
We don't live life in a vacuum, & neither do reviewers covering RMAF. 

Do you honestly think Stereophile, Absolute Sound, etc. reviews every room at RMAF or any other show like this?  Do you think that they recognize smaller companies fairly at the expense of their PAID deeper pockets advertisers?

Maybe they should state "best in show of what we saw" ... would that be more politically correct ?

Great job Tyson & Pez. You guys are top notch & VERY entertaining.  Too bad some want to throw darts instead of taking what you say as YOUR opinions & your opinions ONLY ...

    The Absolute Sound choose the GR, TWL, PIAudio, DB Audio Labs best of show price no object. I do not believe any advertise in the Absolute Sound.
     For the cottage guys we have Pez and Tyson to report. They have good ears now their shit. Was lucky to meet them last year. I gained a respect for their ears and integrity. They are truly independent and honest.
      Shows IMO are for interest in hearing said component in your system. Pez and Tyson make that easy if not in attendance. Thanks MUCHO guys.  We need to get them to capitol Audiofest next year.


charles
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 21 Oct 2013, 04:41 pm
"I have nothing to write as no-one in this room seemed interested either in playing me music or giving me any information. "  - John Atkinson

http://www.stereophile.com/content/vapor-audio-bmc-hyatt
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Jon Liu on 21 Oct 2013, 04:55 pm
Wow... I can't believe that happened!  I wonder what was going on...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: S Clark on 21 Oct 2013, 05:04 pm
No one offered to buy an ad...  Some reviewers from mags have been known to hint that ads are available for sale as they do their listening.  :nono:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 21 Oct 2013, 05:09 pm
No one offered to buy an ad...  Some reviewers from mags have been known to hint that ads are available for sale as they do their listening.  :nono:

Do you have any proof that John Atkinson did this when he was in the Vapor's room?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: AJinFLA on 21 Oct 2013, 05:20 pm
No one offered to buy an ad...  Some reviewers from mags have been known to hint that ads are available for sale as they do their listening.  :nono:

I've met JA a couple times and while we have some differences of opinion, I don't think that's his modus opernadi.
My 2c

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Hugh on 21 Oct 2013, 05:32 pm
Ditto.
I've met JA a couple times and while we have some differences of opinion, I don't think that's his modus opernadi.
My 2c

cheers,

AJ
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: johzel on 21 Oct 2013, 05:39 pm
I'm pretty sure this is the thread that brought AC to a halt yesterday.   :lol:

LOL  :lol:  I thought the exact same thing.  Learned long ago to accept others' opinions as just that - opinions.  The only opinions that are fact are our own!!  Like others, not being an attendee I love seeing the pictures and learning about what's new out there - even if through someone else's eyes and ears.  Thanks fellas . . . enjoyed the coverage.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: S Clark on 21 Oct 2013, 05:49 pm
Do you have any proof that John Atkinson did this when he was in the Vapor's room?
No, this was more a comment about the industry than any one reviewer, so I should have included a "wink" after the first sentence.  I have no knowledge at all about Mr. Atkinson, but I have heard manufacturers comment about reviews/ad connections.  This type of thing apparently does happen.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 21 Oct 2013, 06:49 pm
Maybe exceeding 10,000 views on this thread broke AC?   :o

I really am interested in how Jason and I might be more fair in our selections next year.  Seriously, no snark intended.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Oct 2013, 06:57 pm
Maybe exceeding 10,000 views on this thread broke AC? 
I'm pretty sure this is the thread that brought AC to a halt yesterday.   :lol:
LOL  :lol:  I thought the exact same thing.  Learned long ago to accept others' opinions as just that - opinions.  The only opinions that are fact are our own!!  Like others, not being an attendee I love seeing the pictures and learning about what's new out there - even if through someone else's eyes and ears.  Thanks fellas . . . enjoyed the coverage.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: macrojack on 21 Oct 2013, 07:07 pm
Maybe exceeding 10,000 views on this thread broke AC?   :o

I really am interested in how Jason and I might be more fair in our selections next year.  Seriously, no snark intended.

Don't fix it if it ain't broke. You and Pez deliver your brand, which apparently is very well liked as you present it. Continue to pursue your muse and let those who prefer a different artist follow him. Part of the value you provide is a view that is not influenced by anyone but yourselves. Keep it that way. I see you guys as artists creating your art form. There should be no concern that yellow is being neglected to benefit blue in your painting. It is what you make it -- for better or worse.

From all the accolades, I have to deduce it is better.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Scott F. on 21 Oct 2013, 07:28 pm

I really am interested in how Jason and I might be more fair in our selections next year.  Seriously, no snark intended.

Don't do that. Don't succumb to outside pressure. Visit the rooms you want to visit. Be who you are and don't apologize for it. There is nothing wrong with that. If others can't accept that, well, tough titties. Let them read the online mags coverage and don't give it another thought.

I've known you guys for more than a few years and the last thing I think is that you have is any sort of agenda. Just as you've said over and over, you visit the rooms you think are worthy...and honestly, the rooms you visit are worthy. Sure, there may be a room or two that you missed but (again) as you mentioned, the show is short (when reporting) and you'd like to spend a little bit of time with the 'friends' you've made over the years. Nothing wrong with that at all. And yes, you are covering a high percentage of AC sponsors but you are reporting on the AC website.

When I covered the shows for ETM, I picked the stuff that interested me and also, I covered the manufacturers that I knew. Most of them, I knew there rooms should sound good. On occasion I'd walk into a room (not on my list) and find decent sound. Other times, I'd turn around and walk right out.

You guys did a darn fine job covering the show. I enjoy the banter and differences the two of you find. Keep it up....and don't change your coverage to suit the whiners. Stand on your beliefs and don't waiver.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 21 Oct 2013, 07:43 pm
Yes. That ^
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 Oct 2013, 07:44 pm
macrojack and Scott F....
Amen and Amen! 

Their RMAF review format needs a "fix" about as much as the Mona Lisa. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 21 Oct 2013, 07:45 pm
Don't do that. Don't succumb to outside pressure. Visit the rooms you want to visit. Be who you are and don't apologize for it. There is nothing wrong with that. If others can't accept that, well, tough titties. Let them read the online mags coverage and don't give it another thought.

I've known you guys for more than a few years and the last thing I think is that you have is any sort of agenda. Just as you've said over and over, you visit the rooms you think are worthy...and honestly, the rooms you visit are worthy. Sure, there may be a room or two that you missed but (again) as you mentioned, the show is short (when reporting) and you'd like to spend a little bit of time with the 'friends' you've made over the years. Nothing wrong with that at all. And yes, you are covering a high percentage of AC sponsors but you are reporting on the AC website.

When I covered the shows for ETM, I picked the stuff that interested me and also, I covered the manufacturers that I knew. Most of them, I knew there rooms should sound good. On occasion I'd walk into a room (not on my list) and find decent sound. Other times, I'd turn around and walk right out.

You guys did a darn fine job covering the show. I enjoy the banter and differences the two of you find. Keep it up....and don't change your coverage to suit the whiners. Stand on your beliefs and don't waiver.

And everyone by now should realize that there are so many 'worthy` contenders that no one can possibly visit them all at shows of this size
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 21 Oct 2013, 07:47 pm
macrojack and Scott F....
Amen and Amen! 

Their RMAF review format needs a "fix" about as much as the Mona Lisa.

And absolutely do NOT consult Rowan Atkinson on how to do it right..
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: DaveC113 on 21 Oct 2013, 07:53 pm
Obviously the only way to do it is to visit EVERY room. You guys better pick up the pace, slackers!  :P
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 Oct 2013, 08:00 pm
I know a far superior review format for RMAF than P&T's.  It's a secret.  I won't do it.  Neither will anyone else. 

/sarc off
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: audioengr on 21 Oct 2013, 08:31 pm
"I have nothing to write as no-one in this room seemed interested either in playing me music or giving me any information. "  - John Atkinson

http://www.stereophile.com/content/vapor-audio-bmc-hyatt

Unfortunately, it was just bad timing.  I was touring the Mariott at the time with my wife and I guess Ryan had just stepped out to get some food or something.  Ryan was just returning and he saw JA come out of the room and I guess go to the Wilson room.  When he realized this, he notified me and I returned immediately from the Mariott,  put a sentry, my wife outside the Wilson room and waited.  He never emerged.... Maybe Ryan was mistaken about him going in there.

The folks in the room should have been playing music the whole time anyway.  I never heard it quiet when I was there.  Maybe the server was being worked-on at the time and that was the reason.  We had a monoblock amp go whacko and take out several USB ports on the server.  It was replaced by a stereo amp that Ryan brought and then things worked fine.

I tried to post something on the Stereophile site explaining this, but the field for text is just blank and will not allow me to type....

Steve N.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 21 Oct 2013, 08:46 pm
I tried to post something on the Stereophile site explaining this, but the field for text is just blank and will not allow me to type....
Steve N.

You need to be registered and Login to post comments.

Two people have posted comments.
 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: audioengr on 21 Oct 2013, 09:15 pm
You need to be registered and Login to post comments.

Two people have posted comments.

I am registered and logged in.  It does not show you the "reply" buttons unless you are logged in.

Something with Java is broken I think.

Steve N.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 21 Oct 2013, 09:59 pm
I know a far superior review format for RMAF than P&T's.  It's a secret.  I won't do it.  Neither will anyone else. 

/sarc off

So do I. And it's MUCH better than yours! I'd be willing to part with the details if the price is right.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: brother love on 21 Oct 2013, 11:27 pm
    The Absolute Sound choose the GR, TWL, PIAudio, DB Audio Labs best of show price no object. I do not believe any advertise in the Absolute Sound.

I think you are referring to Steven Stone at TAS,  & in that case your point is very well taken.  I wonder if he reviewed every single room at RMAF before selecting HIS best in show.  :wink:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 21 Oct 2013, 11:39 pm
So do I. And it's MUCH better than yours! I'd be willing to part with the details if the price is right.

Or.....we could each raffle them off for charity purpose... :lol:

/sarc off
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 22 Oct 2013, 12:26 am
Wow, we broke AC! Haha I want to give my deepest thanks again!!! You guys are the reason we do this. I remember when we first started doing this, building 'cred' was not easy. We got bashed a lot. People called us biased (TRUE!!! we are!), manufacturers called us unprofessional (also TRUE!!! we are the anti-pro, yet we kick their asses when it comes to our show coverage!), and that people shouldn't listen to us and attend the show themselves (couldn't agree more!!!). Now that we've gotten through all of that people are left with nothing other than our honest biased (by our tastes) opinions. Commercial and advertiser free.

Now please click this link for a word from our sponsors: Super Awesome Audio Amp Co (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 22 Oct 2013, 12:33 am
Or.....we could each raffle them off for charity purpose... :lol:

/sarc off

long as I get 10% off the top..
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 22 Oct 2013, 12:48 am
Now please click this link for a word from our sponsors: Super Awesome Audio Amp Co (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
One good play deserves another. >>This is the one for you Sir.<< (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wWLhrHVySgA).
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pez on 22 Oct 2013, 12:59 am
One good play deserves another. >>This is the one for you Sir.<< (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wWLhrHVySgA).

Holy crap that's the worst thing I have ever seen... Ever...  :o
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 22 Oct 2013, 01:00 am
That's right Brother. That's what you get for trying to Rick Roll me.   :whip:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: SoCalWJS on 22 Oct 2013, 01:11 am
(chiming in a bit late here........)

T&P  :notworthy:  :thumb:

Your coverage was incredibly good as usual!

(I used to try to post my photos the following morning while eating breakfast, but I discovered I was 12+ hours behind. Plus this year, I was too busy/tired  :violin:)

With regard to some of the comments made here which could be construed as less than positive - ignore them. I heard your names pop up a couple of times at the show from both attendees as well as exhibitors. They knew that you gave the most timely coverage, but also honest impressions - something that means something to people. We've all become more jaded and cynical as we become more aware of the different factors that can go into the published opinions of those who stand to gain from those comments. We value comments from those with no horse in the race.

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Diamond Dog on 22 Oct 2013, 02:08 am
Holy crap that's the worst thing I have ever seen... Ever...  :o

After you watch this, you may have to re-assess your position : 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2uqcQDmy9w

Tyson and Pez, your coverage is always worthwhile and always a hoot. I'd love you to cut loose and check out some vendors you haven't hit recently. Just nobody who's gear I own as I am fragile and am only interested in validation... :wink:

Keep on doing that thing you do... :thumb:

D.D.

PS : Pez, didn't your Radiohead thread a while back crash AC too? Jeez Louise, man, go easy on this thing, would ya?

D.D.



Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 22 Oct 2013, 02:49 am
good work guys, careful you may not be flying under the radar much longer. 8)  people will start trying to wine and dine you, (expensive from what I've seen of your sat. dinner :roll:), who knows the competition may try to crash the site or bomb your car :nono:         
funny about J.A. he listened to three songs (way more than usual) and said he loved our room , then trashed us in print???  looks like he was odd with several other rooms? wonder what's up. anyhow I don't pay much attention to the bigger mags, personally I think the smaller mags and indies do a better and more credible job or reporting shows. of course T&P (or is that P&T?)  are the best!

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pete Schumacher on 22 Oct 2013, 03:04 am
We'll have to forget the initials and just come up with an icon.

(http://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/24655/screenshots/1186263/zack_travis-sfc-icon-01.jpg)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: dlparker on 22 Oct 2013, 03:10 am
We'll have to forget the initials and just come up with an icon.

(http://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/24655/screenshots/1186263/zack_travis-sfc-icon-01.jpg)

Perfect!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Daedalus Audio on 22 Oct 2013, 03:27 am
Perfect!
a Native American outhouse???
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 22 Oct 2013, 03:33 am
"I need TP for my bunghole!"  For all you Beavis & Butthead fans.  Maybe this should be our personal icon:

(http://ridonkuloustv.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/toilet-paper-money.jpg?w=1092)
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 22 Oct 2013, 05:36 am
deleted.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: S Clark on 22 Oct 2013, 11:42 am
I'll add my kudos to the rest.  This year I missed the RMAF since my wife and I took a long planned trip to Italy. But I followed your coverage from Florence, Rome, and Naples every evening, and once again, you guys did a great job.
Scott
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 22 Oct 2013, 12:19 pm
  funny about J.A. he listened to three songs (way more than usual) and said he loved our room , then trashed us in print???
I see a seat open for him in D.C.   :duh:  or he's just Bipolar or just an...
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 22 Oct 2013, 05:13 pm
You should both get seeing eye dogs and walk around the entire show blindfolded. The dogs can lead you to each room and since you can't see the vendor, you won't be biased. Problem solved  :wink:  :lol:

Oh, you laugh, but last year someone suggested that we actually blindfold each other and have someone lead us into the various rooms blindfolded.  No joke.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Don_S on 22 Oct 2013, 05:50 pm
"Put on your eyeshades. Put in your ear plugs.  You know where to put the cork."


Oh, you laugh, but last year someone suggested that we actually blindfold each other and have someone lead us into the various rooms blindfolded.  No joke.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: audioengr on 22 Oct 2013, 06:54 pm
I think you are referring to Steven Stone at TAS,  & in that case your point is very well taken.  I wonder if he reviewed every single room at RMAF before selecting HIS best in show.  :wink:

Steven usually gives my room a listen, but we didn't see him this year.  Maybe didn't have time to do the shuttle... :(

Steve N.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: persisting1 on 22 Oct 2013, 09:36 pm
Oh, you laugh, but last year someone suggested that we actually blindfold each other and have someone lead us into the various rooms blindfolded.  No joke.

Oh boy. That is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 22 Oct 2013, 10:08 pm
Double Post, sorry!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Tyson on 22 Oct 2013, 10:11 pm
Oh boy. That is just ridiculous.

Lest you doubt... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110626.msg1143004#msg1143004


And other people suggested we get SPL meters and take measurements in the room!!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110562.msg1141519#msg1141519

and

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110562.msg1141556#msg1141556

You cannot make this stuff up!
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Pete Schumacher on 22 Oct 2013, 10:35 pm
What happened to all the awesome pictures on the first page of the thread?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jhm731 on 22 Oct 2013, 10:55 pm
JA's Equal Best Sound at RMAF

VTL/Wilson/dCS:
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/101213-Wilson-600.jpg)
Kimber/EMM Labs/Sony:
(http://www.stereophile.com/images/101113-Kimber-600.jpg)


Stephen Mejias Best of the Show:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/10th-annual-rocky-mountain-audio-fest
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: jtwrace on 22 Oct 2013, 11:54 pm
Just as an FYI:



Attendees:
20 Countries and 41 States
Total                                                                            3,759
Industry                                                                             7%
Military                                                                               1%
Students                                                                            6%
Seniors                                                                             12%
Standard                                                                         74%
 
Exhibitors:
26 Countries and 42 States
Total Exhibitors                                                       1,196
Total Companies                                                        440
Total Products Listed Online:                                545
 
Press:
7 Countries and 32 States
Total                                                                               130
Publications                                                                   56
 
Volunteers and Guests:
2 Countries and 15 States
Total                                                                               101
 
Silent Auction:
Total Amount Raised:                                         $5,469.00
Total Matched by RMAF:                                   $5,469.00
Total Donated to Red Cross:                      $10,938.00

Thank you for supporting RMAF and I really appreciate your input....it only makes the show better.


Warmest Regards, Marjorie


 
Marjorie Baumert, Director
Rocky Mountain Audio Fest
October 10, 11, and 12, 2014
www.audiofest.net (http://www.audiofest.net/)
Facebook: ROCKY MOUNTAIN AUDIO FEST
Twitter: @audiofest or #RMAF
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Vapor Audio on 23 Oct 2013, 05:09 am
What happened to all the awesome pictures on the first page of the thread?

Yeah, what's up with the missing pics?  Did somebody exceed their Photobucket bandwidth limit?
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: a.wayne on 23 Oct 2013, 11:03 am
Just as an FYI:



Attendees:
20 Countries and 41 States
Total                                                                            3,759
Industry                                                                             7%
Military                                                                               1%
Students                                                                            6%
Seniors                                                                             12%
Standard                                                                         74%
 
Exhibitors:
26 Countries and 42 States
Total Exhibitors                                                       1,196
Total Companies                                                        440
Total Products Listed Online:                                545
 
Press:
7 Countries and 32 States
Total                                                                               130
Publications                                                                   56
 
Volunteers and Guests:
2 Countries and 15 States
Total                                                                               101
 
Silent Auction:
Total Amount Raised:                                         $5,469.00
Total Matched by RMAF:                                   $5,469.00
Total Donated to Red Cross:                      $10,938.00

Thank you for supporting RMAF and I really appreciate your input....it only makes the show better.


Warmest Regards, Marjorie


 
Marjorie Baumert, Director
Rocky Mountain Audio Fest
October 10, 11, and 12, 2014
www.audiofest.net (http://www.audiofest.net/)
Facebook: ROCKY MOUNTAIN AUDIO FEST
Twitter: @audiofest or #RMAF


Thats a Low attendee to exhibitor ratio ....
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 23 Oct 2013, 11:48 am
Yeah, what's up with the missing pics?  Did somebody exceed their Photobucket bandwidth limit?
Yip. It'll cost them $1.25 to get Photobucket Pro for a month. That should get them past this rush of bandwidth.  :lol:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Don_S on 23 Oct 2013, 02:28 pm
I do not understand "total exhibitors" vs "total companies". Does exhibitors mean total for all rooms?  i.e. companies exhibiting in multiple rooms are counted as an exhibitor multiple times.  :scratch:

Thats a Low attendee to exhibitor ratio ....
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 23 Oct 2013, 02:51 pm
I think "company" is the guy hosting the room.
The "exhibitor" would be the equipment he's using, ie; Brand of speaker, brand of amp, brand of cables, etc..etc...
So one "company" will have multiple pieces of equipment being "exhibited".

Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: James Romeyn on 23 Oct 2013, 02:53 pm
I do not understand "total exhibitors" vs "total companies". Does exhibitors mean total for all rooms?  i.e. companies exhibiting in multiple rooms are counted as an exhibitor multiple times.  :scratch:

I presume the differentiation results from some rooms (exhibitors) having more than one company. 
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Don_S on 23 Oct 2013, 03:20 pm
If "company" is the guy hosting the room then that would mean there were 440 rooms. I doubt that. At CES/T.H.E. Show in January there were just over 250 rooms.


I think "company" is the guy hosting the room.
The "exhibitor" would be the equipment he's using, ie; Brand of speaker, brand of amp, brand of cables, etc..etc...
So one "company" will have multiple pieces of equipment being "exhibited".
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: roscoeiii on 23 Oct 2013, 03:25 pm
Or exhibitors could be the # of individuals given exhibitor badges. That seems plausible, given the other numbers.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on 23 Oct 2013, 03:55 pm
If "company" is the guy hosting the room then that would mean there were 440 rooms. I doubt that. At CES/T.H.E. Show in January there were just over 250 rooms.
There are 1,196 "exhibitors", and obviously there wasn't that many rooms, so it seems we're all incorrect.  :scratch:  :dunno:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Don_S on 23 Oct 2013, 04:14 pm
That makes sense to me (so it is probably wrong).  :lol:  I get it, XYZ speaker company sends three people = 3 exhibitors.


Or exhibitors could be the # of individuals given exhibitor badges. That seems plausible, given the other numbers.
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: roscoeiii on 23 Oct 2013, 04:26 pm
That makes sense to me (so it is probably wrong).  :lol:  I get it, XYZ speaker company sends three people = 3 exhibitors.

OMG, something I wrote finally made sense!!!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Pez and Tyson's Best of RMAF- the ultimate guide to awesomeness 2013
Post by: Don_S on 23 Oct 2013, 04:52 pm
But it made sense to me so it doesn't count.  :jester:

OMG, something I wrote finally made sense!!!  :thumb: