CST-1 No-Res Question

lincolnmat · « **on:** 8 May 2020, 10:59 pm »

I received my CST-1 speakers today. I ran them for a couple hours. They were very congested to begin, but after playing a couple albums including some deep organ pieces, they really opened up. Sounding great even before the upgrades. Ready to tackle the crossovers, but also have a no-res question which maybe Danny can answer here and help everyone and not just me. I tried searching and didn't immediately see it discussed.

Should the no-res only be added where the existing damping material was missed, should the no-res be installed on top of the existing damping material, or should the existing material be removed - it's just stapled in - and start over with no-res? The existing material doesn't seem that tightly bonded in some places and I don't know if adding no-res on top would allow the no-res to fully do it's job.

Thanks!

Matt

corndog71 · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 May 2020, 11:21 pm »

You need to remove the filler and staples before applying No Rez. It requires a bare surface for best adhesion. Add poly fill after but not too much and keep a path open for airflow to the port.

lincolnmat · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 May 2020, 12:10 am »

Quote from: corndog71 on 8 May 2020, 11:21 pm

You need to remove the filler and staples before applying No Rez. It requires a bare surface for best adhesion. Add poly fill after but not too much and keep a path open for airflow to the port.

Do you have the CST-1? I would not call what is there filler. It is like floor tiles. Danny had some instructions on the CST-1 page, but once he sold out the speakers he removed the page - and the instruction sheet. Unfortunately I didn't save it when I first looked at it.

corndog71 · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 May 2020, 03:23 am »

If I remember correctly the factory didn’t add enough poly-fill.

Tyson · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 May 2020, 03:49 am »

From what I understand the tile parts stay in there and the Norez goes in the places where there was no tiles attached to the walls.

lincolnmat · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 May 2020, 11:17 am »

In last week's video, Danny said that the tile damping was not completely installed at the factory. The first speaker I opened had LOTS of the tile damper inside - to the point that I now have 3 times the no-res I would need if I should only apply it where there is no tile. That leads me to believe that I should fully line the speaker with no-res as shown on the N-3 plans as that is how much no-res I received.

In looking at the tile damper more closely, I think the staples were just to support the tiles as the glue dried. They seem to be glued down, so would be difficult to remove. I'm wondering if I should try to remove any staples that are high enough to cause bonding issues in the no-res and just fill 'em up?

Matt

lincolnmat · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 May 2020, 12:27 pm »

Let me try to show with pictures

Upper Woofer - all areas are covered with tile

Tweeter Chamber - all areas are covered with tile

Lower Woofer area - rear is covered with tile, front is lacking

Groovin · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 May 2020, 12:46 pm »

Wondering if the tiles are good enough in some places and just polyfill the corners ? Wish I could give the right answer so you can finish them.

AverageNiceGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 May 2020, 01:02 pm »

I'm in the same situation.
Thanks for your post. Seeing the photo's and discussion will help my confidence doing the upgrade.
Did you receive your No-Rez and upgrade parts at the same time as you CST-1's?
I got my CST-1's a few days ago, but the upgrade items have not yet arrived.

This link should open the CST-1 insulation instruction diagram.
http://gr-research.com/pdf/carnegie%20stuffing%20issue.pdf

I found that link in this post.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=116702.msg1227155#msg1227155

lincolnmat · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 May 2020, 01:37 pm »

That is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

I only removed the polyfill, nothing else. It isn't totally obvious from the description on that page what Danny was intending us to do with the yellow areas. The red areas truly need work, but at least the area you can see in the rear opening has tile in there. Plus there is no way I could get to the area where the binding posts are without taking the speaker apart! Only so much you can do with a finished product.

Actually I received the capacitors and no-res BEFORE the speakers. UPS routed the packages differently.

AverageNiceGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 May 2020, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: lincolnmat on 9 May 2020, 01:37 pm

That is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
I only removed the polyfill, nothing else. It isn't totally obvious from the description on that page what Danny was intending us to do with the yellow areas. The red areas truly need work, but at least the area you can see in the rear opening has tile in there. Plus there is no way I could get to the area where the binding posts are without taking the speaker apart! Only so much you can do with a finished product.
Actually I received the capacitors and no-res BEFORE the speakers. UPS routed the packages differently.

Glad to help.
The work you are doing is helping me to be ready also.

This quote is on the drawing "Yellow areas indicate where the damping material and insulation is to be placed. This area was done improperly"
I'm leaning toward applying NoRez on all the surfaces that can be reached with NoRez, and to place it on top of the tiles.
Perhaps the Polyfill can be pushed into hard to reach spots?
The bottom of the drawing has a section in blue that speaks to poly-fill.

I'm watching the video again to re-catch some tips I barely remember at the moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EneeArMHC5E&t=2s
No luck, I didn't get much additional info from re-watching the video.

lincolnmat · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 May 2020, 02:57 pm »

The post that you referenced, which included the link to the instructions, stated that the instructions were what Danny sent to the factory to improve the product for further builds. They are only secondarily instructions on what to do with the already improperly built speakers.

I could easily cut no-res and apply it to the surface as it exists, I just wonder about whether the existing tile product would be a sound enough surface - with good enough bonding to the cabinet - for the no-res.

I guess I'm just overly neurotic!

AverageNiceGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 May 2020, 03:02 pm »

Quote from: lincolnmat on 9 May 2020, 02:57 pm

The post that you referenced, which included the link to the instructions, stated that the instructions were what Danny sent to the factory to improve the product for further builds. They are only secondarily instructions on what to do with the already improperly built speakers.
I could easily cut no-res and apply it to the surface as it exists, I just wonder about whether the existing tile product would be a sound enough surface - with good enough bonding to the cabinet - for the no-res.
I guess I'm just overly neurotic!

I'm thinking the same way.
I plan to install NoRes on everything that I can reach, and I'm thinking that cleaning the surface of the mat material to help adhesion of the NoRes, to then place NoRes on top of the mat.
The mat material alone doesn't appear to be nearly as good as NoRes.

AverageNiceGuy · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 May 2020, 03:03 pm »

Quote from: AverageNiceGuy on 9 May 2020, 03:02 pm

I'm thinking the same way.
I plan to install NoRes on everything that I can reach, and I'm thinking that cleaning the surface of the mat material to help adhesion to put NoRes on top of it.
The mat material alone doesn't appear to be nearly as good as NoRes.

Oops, sorry about this, somehow I quoted myself...?

Groovin · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 May 2020, 07:26 pm »

So are you going to install the no-rez over the thin tiles and poly fill the rest?

lincolnmat · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 May 2020, 07:46 pm »

I am going to be patient

and wait to hear from Danny, or someone who already got direction from him. I have done the crossovers (well one so far) and will just let them run to break in some more before going farther. I don't want to waste no-res.

Groovin · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 May 2020, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: lincolnmat on 9 May 2020, 07:46 pm

I am going to be patient and wait to hear from Danny, or someone who already got direction from him. I have done the crossovers (well one so far) and will just let them run to break in some more before going farther. I don't want to waste no-res.

. I agree because I am waiting to see your decision thanks for the photos. I never thought to ask what he would have charged to do the work.

lincolnmat · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 May 2020, 09:53 pm »

Danny doesn't make the modifications himself. His time is too valuable doing what already keeps him so busy. Testing speakers, designing new crossover networks for folks, selling kits and supplies.

Groovin · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 May 2020, 06:57 pm »

Quote from: lincolnmat on 9 May 2020, 09:53 pm

Danny doesn't make the modifications himself. His time is too valuable doing what already keeps him so busy. Testing speakers, designing new crossover networks for folks, selling kits and supplies.

I thought he had a employee that would do it i just want the speakers to be as good as possible

Peter J · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 May 2020, 07:41 pm »

If all that's holding those damping pads is the staples I see, I'd remove as much as I could get to and replace with NoRez. NoRez works best when the damping layer in in intimate contact with panel. Not magic, just physics.

If they happen to be glued in addition to staples, it would be more work because whatever glue remains would need to be removed. The PSA on NoRez is aggressive, but has no ability to fill gaps, hence the "intimate" rec. Clean surface is also important. Adhesion is only as good as weakest link in chain and if that link is debris, it will be a lesser bond.