AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Tube-o-phile Circle => Topic started by: jostber on 12 Jun 2017, 08:29 pm
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New tube types forthcoming:
VinylSavor: News from the ELROG Tube Factory 7
http://vinylsavor.blogspot.no/2017/05/news-from-elrog-tube-factory-7.html
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They are asking donations :scratch:
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New tube types forthcoming:
VinylSavor: News from the ELROG Tube Factory 7
http://vinylsavor.blogspot.no/2017/05/news-from-elrog-tube-factory-7.html
Nothing special there, just normal old tubes in a new production and heavely overpriced.
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Well, if the 50 is thoriated, that would be new. Agree on price. But, well, hand made has gotten more expensive, especially because those with expertise in making tubes is gone.
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I can't help but chuckle that the cost of Elrog's is immediately cited and objected to.
- The tube path will always cost more to buy and maintain.
Best sound for the lowest cost leads to chip-amps or class-D, both of which can sound quite fine. - The least expensive tubes are from 2nd and 3rd world and often communist countries where wages are just above peasant levels. Is it so objectionable that some audiophiles can afford and choose to support a tube factory in a 1st world country that shoulders the expense of European wages and overhead (including compliance with strict environmental laws)?
- NOS stocks are essentially gone and those remaining riddled with counterfeits. The remaining bargains are away from the common 12ax7, 6dj8, 6550, et.al. I have great respect for those who custom build with those but it's hardly a commercially sustainable path.
- Regarding "donations" aka crowdfunding or crowdsourcing I think that is brilliant. For every 10,000 audiophiles who will say "oh yes I want a new 50 triode so bad" there are 3 who will actually buy it. Crowdfunding asks you to put your money where your mouth is, essentially filtering out the bragging online tire kickers in favor of actual serious customers.
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Well, if the 50 is thoriated, that would be new. Agree on price. But, well, hand made has gotten more expensive, especially because those with expertise in making tubes is gone.
The 300b from Elrog also has a thoriated tungsten filement, i have doubts if this is a good choice.
Normally those filements are very good and reliable but Elrog don't use these filements at the normal way so i have doubt if they are so reliable as normal thoriated tungsten filements are.
For me this is a no go.
Btw how many tubes can a good craftsman make in a day? If it's just 1 then the price would be acceptable but i guess they can make more then 10 every day. Then the price would be ridiculess.
Just have a look at a "simple" kt88, more complicated then any 300b or 50 triode and these tubes can be sold for a lot less.
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I work nightjob 12 hours and I will no detract the herculean work of Asians and Russians when they made these tubes, work 12 hours every day of the month for 30 dollars salary is not for the weak or potty workers.
The original WE 300B made in USA starting at 1930s also was made by low paid workers often women using products and processes toxic and prohibited today.
In a Google for thoriated tungsten wire I found there is only 1% and 2% Thorium wire commercially available today, what lead to the current short life span we get today, I hope Elrog can made magic with its wire.
Thoriated wire either in Tungsten-US or Wolfram-Russia are not a good electron emitter, the emission are adequate only in the correct hi temperature around 2500ºC, the oxide coated cathode are much better electron emitter and substitute Thorium promptly.
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I work nightjob 12 hours and I will no detract the herculean work of Asians and Russians when they made these tubes, work 12 hours every day of the month for 30 dollars salary is not for the weak or potty workers.
The original WE 300B made in USA starting at 1930s also was made by low paid workers often women using products and processes toxic and prohibited today.
In a Google for thoriated tungsten wire I found there is only 1% and 2% Thorium wire commercially available today, what lead to the current short life span we get today, I hope Elrog can made magic with its wire.
Thoriated wire either in Tungsten-US or Wolfram-Russia are not a good electron emitter, the emission are adequate only in the correct hi temperature around 2500ºC, the oxide coated cathode are much better electron emitter and substitute Thorium promptly.
I didn't mean those hard workers who earn a penny every hour. There boss earn a $100000 for doing nothing special. And those "salesman" have another $1000000. People from Audionote or Thomas Mayer (did you see his home on vinylsavor?)
We had Philips in the Netherlands making great tubes in the past. I have ec8010 and e55l at home from them, i guess a lot more difficult to make then those old dht tubes, including 300B (elrog or we).
You are right about the 2500 C for the thoriated tungsten, now you see why the elrog 300B is a stupid tube.
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The 300b from Elrog also has a thoriated tungsten filement, i have doubts if this is a good choice.
Normally those filements are very good and reliable but Elrog don't use these filements at the normal way so i have doubt if they are so reliable as normal thoriated tungsten filements are.
For me this is a no go.
Btw how many tubes can a good craftsman make in a day? If it's just 1 then the price would be acceptable but i guess they can make more then 10 every day. Then the price would be ridiculess.
Just have a look at a "simple" kt88, more complicated then any 300b or 50 triode and these tubes can be sold for a lot less.
And i was right that the choice wasn't a good idea....... : https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/elrog-300b-s-for-sale-your-thoughts?highlight=Elrog
With Thomas as a new owner they made some improvements but to be honest, a lifetime of 3000-4000 hours is still bad when you look at the original we300b or a good thoriated tungsten tube who will easely get >10000 h.
Edit: changed the link
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This article was removed from Audiogon.
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There is several new articles on the Elrog tubes at the main site now:
http://vinylsavor.blogspot.no/
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This article was removed from Audiogon.
Well, this is a very bad thing, first they admit there are serieus problems, then they say some problems are "solved" and then all is removed on this forum...... . I won 't trust them any more if its removed.
Edit: it's still there 8)
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Thomas just bought the company and asserts he fixed the issues. I, for one, am glad to hear it. Though I doubt I will buy any of these.
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https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/elrog-300b-s-for-sale-your-thoughts?highlight=Elrog
Still find the article on AudiogoN, pretty funny he would be accused of paying to have it removed, took 30 seconds to find it.
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Thomas just bought the company and asserts he fixed the issues. I, for one, am glad to hear it. Though I doubt I will buy any of these.
Fixed? They changed the filement so that a inrush current is less problematic if high power disipation is used. It means the tube gets also another "sound". So fixing an inrush problem but also changed the tube parameters.
But still way to much money for a tube.
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Well, this is a very bad thing, first they admit there are serieus problems, then they say some problems are "solved" and then all is removed on this forum...... . I won 't trust them any more if its removed.
Edit: it's still there 8)
Now the Audiogon link open, yesterday I received the infamous 404 error msg code :scratch:
Wonder If the text of the article has not been edited?