[BrianM]

I've always preferred letting the sound travel a bit (as the room allows) before it hits my ears, and toeing in for better imaging.  Or so I thought, until today I was romping with my 9 month old on the floor about 4 feet from the speakers, with a cellist sawing away, and thought, huh, gee...  Moved my chair up to only about 7-8 feet away, speakers are just over a foot from the front wall, and now with the toe-in pointing well behind me.  And I was shocked -- shocked! -- at how good the stage + imaging still was.  Plus I felt delightfully closer to the stage (go figure), but without feeling too close.  So one glass of red into it and I'm growing more intrigued.  Even big orchestral works work great this way.

Just wondering how many people enjoy their 1801s in this reach-out-and-touch way, and wondering if I'll ever go back...

[Russell Dawkins]

My speakers are at about 5 1/2 feet for most of my listening, but they have to be for my work which involves critical listening 1/2 the time.

Have you tried the same with the axes crossing just in front of you? I match the angles by moving my head straight back from my listening position until I can see the same amount of the outside surfaces of each speaker.

Call me weird, but I really like to hear what is on the recording, and the less of your room you hear the more of the recording space (if there is one) you hear.

I really like the sound of good speakers outdoors, even though there is no room "help".

[Jazz and Baroque]

My drivers are about six feet from my ears.

Mike

[satfrat]

I've got my main Lorelei's 3.3' away from the front wall so in my 17' long room, I'm a little over 6' away from my main Lorelei's and 4' away from my rear Lorelei's,,,,,,,,,,,, just right.  I would only like to be another foot or so if I had a longer room but I know I wouldn't want to be any closer. I have very little toe-in and when I've tried moving up to 4' away, I lose the whole soundstage depth and in my system, that's it's strongest feature.

Cheers,
Robin

[BrianM]

Russell-
I have tried crossing axes but not yet at so close a listening position.  That'll be tomorrow's experiment, I'm on glass #3 (Saturday night baby) by now and I hate screwing and unscrewing floor spikes.  Well.  I guess if it's just toeing them I don't have to.  Heh.     Btw I use the same method for checking the angle (I thought I invented that!)

Robin-
I agree that the depth seems better this way, more the sense of people playing behind the speakers.  Don't know if that's more the distance from the front wall or the listener proximity.  I'd like to hear the Lorelei's some time, heard only good things about them.  (That's a Scanspeak 8545 right?)

[DavidS]

I used to have my Ellis' in a largeish 18x30 room.  I think they like the breathing room but need power as well.  I have moved them to small 11x12 room where I do my listening these days.  The bonus is I can drive them plenty loud with a little 16 watt dared integrated.  I actually have mine about 3 or 4 feet out into the room (They seem to like to be away from walls in both rooms) and have been playing them with no toe in until I read this.  They are about 7 or 8 feet from my ears so definately nearfield equal sided triangle.   So I am as I type trying them crossing in front of me to see what I think.  Got Kurt Elling's latest warming up on the cd player and the imaging does seem to be a little better. 

[Zero]

Al I ever do is near-field listening.  It's tough to go back any other way.

[Russell Dawkins]

with very small two ways on stands, or any other speaker that can be listened to very close, you should try ultra nearfield listening sometime.

I had a set up where the speakers were about 2 feet from my ears on either side of a comfortable armchair, axes crossing about at my nose. The experience was very immersive.

These were custom made for the purpose (I made them) and were two ways with KEF B110s and T27s. They were very narrow floor standing transmission lines.

They were designed to fill a gap in the market which I think still exists - namely a wide range small speaker with low output capability but with serious bass extension for the size and price. They were aimed squarely at apartment dwellers.

I shocked more than one visitor with them - the more aware of things sonic they were, the more shocked. You just did not expect that sort of bass extension from a 4 incher.

This was in '81. The amp was variously the small NAD 3020, the Advent receiver and finally a Haffler kit (101?). You can tell I was on a budget!

[satfrat]

Russell-
I have tried crossing axes but not yet at so close a listening position.  That'll be tomorrow's experiment, I'm on glass #3 (Saturday night baby) by now and I hate screwing and unscrewing floor spikes.  Well.  I guess if it's just toeing them I don't have to.  Heh.     Btw I use the same method for checking the angle (I thought I invented that!)

Robin-
I agree that the depth seems better this way, more the sense of people playing behind the speakers.  Don't know if that's more the distance from the front wall or the listener proximity.  I'd like to hear the Lorelei's some time, heard only good things about them.  (That's a Scanspeak 8545 right?)

Yep,,,, 8545 carbon fiber Scan Speak and 9700 soft dome Scan Speak tweeter. In my system, that's what I'm all about,,, that being having the sense of the soundfield coming from beyond the speakers,,, up there between the front wall and the ceiling. It may not be accurate but it's entertaining as hell. 


Cheers,
Robin

[denjo]

Unfortunately with the Thiels I cannot listen nearfield as Jim Thiel recommends at least 12 ft distance. When I had the AudioNOte AN-E speakers one of the things I relished was to sit up close to the speakers (probably as close as 5 ft) and the musical experience made me feel I was in a jazz club or within spitting range of the singer, orchestra.

[stvnharr]

I've always preferred letting the sound travel a bit (as the room allows) before it hits my ears, and toeing in for better imaging.  Or so I thought, until today I was romping with my 9 month old on the floor about 4 feet from the speakers, with a cellist sawing away, and thought, huh, gee...  Moved my chair up to only about 7-8 feet away, speakers are just over a foot from the front wall, and now with the toe-in pointing well behind me.  And I was shocked -- shocked! -- at how good the stage + imaging still was.  Plus I felt delightfully closer to the stage (go figure), but without feeling too close.  So one glass of red into it and I'm growing more intrigued.  Even big orchestral works work great this way.

Just wondering how many people enjoy their 1801s in this reach-out-and-touch way, and wondering if I'll ever go back...

Brian,
I think that you will find that the best setup for your speakers is to have them close, about a foot out from the back of the speaker, to the wall, toed in to the top of the equilateral triangle of the equal distance between them, provided that they are 2-3 feet away from a side wall.  Then it doesn't really matter where you sit to listen and enjoy.
Near field will always get you the best listening in most any setup.  But it's not always the most comfortable listening position.  The setup described above should let you be flexible with listening position.  Most setups do have a "best" position at the top of the equilateral triangle of the equal distance between the speakers, irregardless of position in the room.  But the "sweet spot" is smallish.

Steve

[95bcwh]

My experience on near field listening is just as eye-opening as my discovery of room treatment. It sounded a little weird at first, but once you're accustom to it, you will appreciate what it does - it brings you so much closer to the singer, it's as if she/he is singing right on your nose.

[Rocket]

Hi,

I sit 9 feet from my speakers.  Is this considered near field?

Regards

Rod

[lonewolfny42]

Hi,

I sit 9 feet from my speakers.  Is this considered near field?

Regards

Rod

Rod....

Here's a little rundown on nearfield listening....

1. Bring your speakers into the room, two or three feet away from the back wall, as a start.

 2. Set them well apart, a minimum of six feet, I would say.

 3. Set your initial listening position at the same distance away from the center as the speakers are apart. For example, if the speakers are seven feet apart, start your listening tests by sitting seven feet from the center.

4. Move gradually closer and, using well recorded music selections, listen carefully for improvement in width, depth and imaging.

5. With each move forward, toe in your speakers so that each one aims at the side of your face nearest it. Don't overdo it. You must still be able to see the inner side of each speaker.

6. Wait for that magic moment when you get maximum width and optimum depth.

 If you find that sounds are coming almost exclusively from each speaker and there is a vast empty space where the stage used to be, you're definitely too close.

(Listening in the Nearfield by Albert Simon)

[Russell Dawkins]

Hi,

I sit 9 feet from my speakers.  Is this considered near field?

Regards

Rod

Only in Texas.

[lonewolfny42]

                                       




                                   


                         



                    .............

Only in Texas

[JLM]

I do both nearfield and "farfield".

While at the computer I'm about 11 feet back (but still "in-line").

In "the" chair I'm in a 68 inch equilateral triangle ala Cardias (speakers 68 inches from front wall and 40 inches from side walls). 

Speakers are toed in to cross behind my head in "the" chair for imaging and to tweak the highs from my 8 inch tweeter (I use single driver speakers).

BTW you ain't never heard nearfield done right until you've tried it with a single driver speaker.

[Wayner]

I run 3 set of speakers in the near field position. All are toed-in about 5 degrees. You can tell when the toe-in angle is right because the sound stage blooms.

There are advantages in listening to near field....detail, detail, detail.

There are disadvantages in listening to near field.....detail, detail, detail.

Therefore, you can hear the the base noise of your amplification system and if you listen to vinyl, the LPs have to be ultra clean.

I love the set up.

Surround sound with 2 speakers.

Wayner

[BrianM]

My previous speakers had metal tweeters that tended to draw attention to themselves.  I'd tried nearfield with them but it didn't really work.  They were also big speakers that needed room I guess.  Perhaps I've been biased against nearfield listening since that time.  My initial impression of the 1801s was that they needed a bit of room, too.  I think there's a psychological element to sitting "too close" i.e. you're secretly afraid your eardrums might start to bleed.

Anyways, with my recent monkeying around I've concluded these speakers sound good all kinds of ways, but that it's really no "louder" when sitting closer, and there are actually fewer room reflections (I think) which would of course convey unwanted loudness.

Don't know if I have it perfect yet but right now speakers are about 8' apart and I'm about 8' from the center, toe-in is aimed at both cheeks...and it sounds frigging amazing.  My best audiophile tracks have gone from sounding just kick-ass, to laugh-out-loud good.     Definitely more of an enveloping effect.  Ray Charles' "Genius Loves Company" isn't my favorite album but Ray is in the room in a scary way.  I can tell what kind of toothpaste Alison Krauss used before she left for the studio.  Dyno-mite!  Also feels like I'm listening to the orchestra from just behind the conductor's podium.

Thanks for all the input people..

[mfsoa]

With my VR4JRs I am about 8-9 feet away , about a foot shy of equilateral. But the toe-in is weird - I hardly use any at all. I don't seem to lose image focus, the tonal balance is better and the stage is w i d e.
I hear other JR owners say they do the same thing - point-em straight out.

Not sure what property of the speaker allows for this - May be some kind of flaw that is reduced by listening off-angle?

As we say around here - "DKDC"  (don't know don't care)

But it works for me.

-Mike