[RDavidson]

Who is trolling? It’s perfectly valid statement to say look for something in a price range he can afford. I don’t go looking at Ferrari’s if all I can afford is a VW.

Presumptive much? How do you know what he can and can't afford just because he's looking for a good deal?

[mresseguie]

Guys,

Bickering amongst yourselves detracts from the goal of the OP. I’m not going to take either side in this scuffle, but I’ll be forced to send this to the cleaners if you don’t mellow out.

Respectfully,

Michael

[toocool4]

Secondly, who appointed you to tell the guy what to do?  No one; that's who.

Hi mresseguie I don’t want to drag this on or de-rail this thread, but just need to quickly reply to maxima95.

The OP is asking a question hence I have given an answer, which is my opinion and he does not have to follow it.

[JLM]

hanks. But it seems you are suggesting the only difference (at least in spec is 5 dB? Putting your comment into engine terms; isn't that like saying  the car is 3000 pounds and a 250 hp engine is only 10% more ponies than a 225 hp engine, when in fact there's a whole lot more in he seat of pants and visceral experience

In real world terms the questions are:

1.) What is the efficiency of your speakers, how big of room are they in, and how loud do you listen?  If you're like most audiophiles you typically listen at no more than 95 dB, and assuming average speaker efficiency of 87 dB/w/m in a normal western civilization sized room with both channels playing you'd need roughly 12-15 dB of gain (16 - 33 watts per channel) plus headroom for peaks.  Using the same speaker/room example the extra 5 dB of gain M700s would provide over the S300 would only be heard between 108 and 113 dB (very, very loud).

2.) Would 21 dB of gain (140 watts per channel) provide a "commanding control" of your speakers (to improve control/resolution from your speakers)?  Practically this is the other consideration.

3.) How much power does your speaker manufacturer recommend?

[timind]

The AS1200 module in the Nord is the latest iteration of Icepower's technology and does not require an input buffer, whereas the PS audio uses the many years older ASC series that requires an input buffer.

Although many amp builders add an input buffer, the ASC modules don't "require" it. Most of the ICEpower modules can be used as stand alone amp boards.

[Photon46]

Although many amp builders add an input buffer, the ASC modules don't "require" it. Most of the ICEpower modules can be used as stand alone amp boards.

Thanks for the clarification. Out of curiosity, are you aware of any amp builders that didn't opt to use an input buffer?

[RDavidson]

Thanks for the clarification. Out of curiosity, are you aware of any amp builders that didn't opt to use an input buffer?

I think there are a few builders / manufacturers out there who are basically putting off-the-shelf ICE modules in nice cases and implementing nice power supplies, wiring, and connectors and selling them. I don't think these examples are known for being the best sounding of the bunch, but I believe they're out there. Maybe I'm thinking of amps from several years ago? Those are definitely not as good as today's offerings.

[timind]

Thanks for the clarification. Out of curiosity, are you aware of any amp builders that didn't opt to use an input buffer?

I bought a Ghent built amp that had a 125ASx module in it. That's all it had inside. Pretty Red Dragon amps have no input device on their ICE module amps. If you look at early Bel Canto amps, they had a tiny input board that looked like was designed to switch between balanced and single ended input.

I doubt there are any major names with naked modules at this point.

[HiOnFi]

first, thanks guys for putting this poster in his place, although he seems unwilling to accept that was being snarky to point of acting holier than though

anyway,

I am no longer interested in replacing my AA DPA -1

Why, you ask?

well,

Yesterday, I was most fortunate to audition a prototype coax cable that clearly revealed that my problem was my toslink cable

Not at liberty to say what company just yet, but the improvement was what I would hope to gain by changing amps

[Photon46]

first, thanks guys for putting this poster in his place, although he seems unwilling to accept that was being snarky to point of acting holier than though

anyway,

I am no longer interested in replacing my AA DPA -1

Why, you ask?

well,

Yesterday, I was most fortunate to audition a prototype coax cable that clearly revealed that my problem was my toslink cable

Not at liberty to say what company just yet, but the improvement was what I would hope to gain by changing amps

Yep, you've just hit on an important point: it's often difficult to determine exactly where the weak link in the chain may be. Glad you resolved the issue for less money than you thought you were going to have to spend.

[HiOnFi]

Thanks, plus, the possibility that dissimilar products would not be a perfect marriage, whereas having the AA DC/Pre and the AA DPA-1 was designed as a match

[JLM]

700Ms for sale on PS Audio forum ($925 each).

[HiOnFi]

wow, that's a vg price

Very tempting

Thanks

[Photon46]

Thanks, plus, the possibility that dissimilar products would not be a perfect marriage, whereas having the AA DC/Pre and the AA DPA-1 was designed as a match

To complicate matters further, I've found that preamps and amps designed to work together can often sound better in another context partnered with a different brand

[RDavidson]

To complicate matters further, I've found that preamps and amps designed to work together can often sound better in another context partnered with a different brand

Yup. That's because the speakers have the biggest influence on the final sound (prior to room interaction etc). Unless you're buying a COMPLETE system (including speakers) from the same manufacturer, matching a few components from the same manufacturer may not provide the best sound on a case by case basis. Obviously this is 100% YMVV because none of us have the same systems, rooms, ears, pets, spouses, etc. Think of the amp and speakers as a sub-system within the whole system.

[maty]

About PS Audio 700M I commented:

 Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution???
« Reply #208 on: 15 Mar 2018

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156250.msg1673278#msg1673278

vs the Peachtree Nova300 with the same Icepower 700AS modules.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156250.msg1673290#msg1673290

[JLM]

Yup. That's because the speakers have the biggest influence on the final sound (prior to room interaction etc). Unless you're buying a COMPLETE system (including speakers) from the same manufacturer, matching a few components from the same manufacturer may not provide the best sound on a case by case basis. Obviously this is 100% YMVV because none of us have the same systems, rooms, ears, pets, spouses, etc. Think of the amp and speakers as a sub-system within the whole system.

IMO matching up between power amp and speakers is the biggest synergizing issue in home audio, and is one reason why I have used active speaker design for the past 15 years.

[rollo]

I bought a Ghent built amp that had a 125ASx module in it. That's all it had inside. Pretty Red Dragon amps have no input device on their ICE module amps. If you look at early Bel Canto amps, they had a tiny input board that looked like was designed to switch between balanced and single ended input.

I doubt there are any major names with naked modules at this point.

 Not all. Hybrid class "D" with tubed input with 500W 8 Ohm and 1000W@4 Ohm are available without ANY premanufactured module from Hypex, Ice or other.
Just need to know where to look for.


charles

[I.Greyhound Fan]

wow, that's a vg price

Very tempting

Thanks

Give underwood hifi a call, you can get them new for about the same price.

[jd3]

I've sampled ICE based amps in the past and never thought much of them, but I'm probably going to give the PS Audio S300 or M700's a try.  I'd like to try out a Mivera, Nord or Apollon but I can get a 30 day trial from PS Audio.  Plus it's a way to trade in some older equipment at MSRP and get a lower price.