Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?

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Mariusz

Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #320 on: 23 Dec 2010, 02:57 am »
Marry Christmas to everyone!!!


I've been a bit busy professionally, personally & ofcause with holiday preparation but here is a copy of on email regarding Omen modifications:


"Happy to help when I can. And before we get into the nitty gritty, let me say that all the parts in Omen are collectively a pretty balanced assembly. In addition to matching the tone-prints of the drivers, we also match those PulseX caps to 0.1%, same with the ERSE resistor, and there location on the back of the tweeter, while uncommon does result in better sound than sticking them on a plinth or worse on the side of the cabinet or bulkhead. Just laying the groundwork for conversation, you an find things to change, but you may or may not like the resulting sound. A few things I can tell you will make a nice difference.

Yes, apply a mechanical damping compound to the inside of the cabinet, focusing the material thickness on the nodes of the plates, which on Omen is the the center of each plate. No need to run the damping material right to the edges, I would recommend an inch or two away from the joints. Another is adding a 1" oak dowel between the tweeter/woofer bridge and the back. Glue it in place with PU glue like shoe goo, and make it a snug fit.

I wouldn't recommend playing with the acoustic damping of the cabinet, the fiberglass inside is fine, and more will only change the sound this way or that, it is tuned for all music, you can get a bit better for ambient by increasing the acoustic damping, but will hinder others.

I don't know that I would mess with cap upgrades to much, the tweeter's filter is very high, measures attached for your reference. However, the Mundorf Silver/Oil is better, 1.0uF is all you need. I would leave the resistor."


Best
Mariusz

Eadron

Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #321 on: 23 Dec 2010, 11:30 am »
Thanks, Mariusz! Actually I figured for modding the Omens pretty much the same you got replied by Zu..

Nice to know about the cap value - I'll try that some day for sure! Overall I think Omens are very nicely balanced speakers indeed. I believe changing the caps would bring the sound more towards Soul Superfly's - perhaps a bit better overall resolution and perhaps a bit more air on top.. :thumb:

Merry Christmas to you and all Folks here at AC!!

jouni

Poultrygeist

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #322 on: 23 Dec 2010, 01:04 pm »
I found FM static to be an easy way to break in the Omens.

Poultrygeist

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #323 on: 23 Dec 2010, 01:12 pm »
It takes my wife and I to move the Omens around the house. Hand trucks might be in order for the Omen Defs.

Levi

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #324 on: 23 Dec 2010, 02:50 pm »
Thanks for sharing this.  However, that bothered me since Zu could have done the upgrade prior to shipping the units.  Maybe I am missing something here but that's just me.

Here is a good reading about Capacitors and how they sound in the reviewer's applications.  http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0708/capacitor1.htm

Marry Christmas to everyone!!!


I've been a bit busy professionally, personally & ofcause with holiday preparation but here is a copy of on email regarding Omen modifications:


"Happy to help when I can. And before we get into the nitty gritty, let me say that all the parts in Omen are collectively a pretty balanced assembly. In addition to matching the tone-prints of the drivers, we also match those PulseX caps to 0.1%, same with the ERSE resistor, and there location on the back of the tweeter, while uncommon does result in better sound than sticking them on a plinth or worse on the side of the cabinet or bulkhead. Just laying the groundwork for conversation, you an find things to change, but you may or may not like the resulting sound. A few things I can tell you will make a nice difference.

Yes, apply a mechanical damping compound to the inside of the cabinet, focusing the material thickness on the nodes of the plates, which on Omen is the the center of each plate. No need to run the damping material right to the edges, I would recommend an inch or two away from the joints. Another is adding a 1" oak dowel between the tweeter/woofer bridge and the back. Glue it in place with PU glue like shoe goo, and make it a snug fit.

I wouldn't recommend playing with the acoustic damping of the cabinet, the fiberglass inside is fine, and more will only change the sound this way or that, it is tuned for all music, you can get a bit better for ambient by increasing the acoustic damping, but will hinder others.

I don't know that I would mess with cap upgrades to much, the tweeter's filter is very high, measures attached for your reference. However, the Mundorf Silver/Oil is better, 1.0uF is all you need. I would leave the resistor."


Best
Mariusz

sebrof

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #325 on: 23 Dec 2010, 06:04 pm »
Thanks for sharing this.  However, that bothered me since Zu could have done the upgrade prior to shipping the units.  Maybe I am missing something here but that's just me.

Then they would need to raise the price. Every product is built to a pricepoint, and any product can be improved.

Levi

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #326 on: 23 Dec 2010, 06:13 pm »
Then they would need to raise the price. Every product is built to a pricepoint, and any product can be improved.


How much do you think is the price difference for the upgrade above?   :)

sebrof

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #327 on: 23 Dec 2010, 07:36 pm »


How much do you think is the price difference for the upgrade above?   :)
My guess would be $200. Considering labor, cost of parts, floor space for a workstation to add the parts (if not a separate workstation then simply because the product would be on the production floor longer), training people how to do it properly, etc. etc. I'm sure others more familiar with manufacturing in general and perhaps how Zu does their manufacturing could give a better answer. But suffice to say that anything added costs money.

JoMoCo

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Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #328 on: 23 Dec 2010, 07:45 pm »
My guess would be $200. Considering labor, cost of parts, floor space for a workstation to add the parts (if not a separate workstation then simply because the product would be on the production floor longer), training people how to do it properly, etc. etc. I'm sure others more familiar with manufacturing in general and perhaps how Zu does their manufacturing could give a better answer. But suffice to say that anything added costs money.

Just the parts cost for two Mundorf Silver/Oil 1.0 caps before breakin and matching (labor cost) is well over $100 a pair retail unless you can get a screaming discount and I do not mean on the "chi-fi" faux units... :duh:

Oh by the way the PulseX 1.0 uf 250v cap costs approx $2 each retail... :thumb:
This Great Capacitor Shoot-out info might be interesting to those who DIY... :lol: the Mundorf Supreme may be a cheap & cheerful alternative to the bigger buck Mundorf's

http://www.laventure.net/tourist/caps.htm#A
« Last Edit: 24 Dec 2010, 01:31 am by JoMoCo »

Levi

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #329 on: 23 Dec 2010, 08:07 pm »
How much sound difference will you be able to get for those upgrades? 

JoMoCo

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Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #330 on: 23 Dec 2010, 09:10 pm »
How much sound difference will you be able to get for those upgrades?

How transparent is the rest of your system?  Speakers are just the last link in the audio chain and not neccessarily the weakest... :dunno:
Lots of good info worth studying yourself in the link I believe you provided earlier... :beer:

Levi

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #331 on: 23 Dec 2010, 09:49 pm »
Case in point. Good luck with that. :)

djbnh

Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #332 on: 23 Dec 2010, 11:29 pm »
My Omen Defs in natural maple finish have arrived and now starting burn-in. Zu's nicely done packaging survived FedEx - just a couple pokes in one of the boxes. The Mrs. huffed a bit helping me bring each of the boxes to the basement, probably not a one person job, yet a job that two men can easily handle. Packaging inside the boxes was well executed: drivers covered tightly with sturdy plastic black "frisbees", top-to-bottom plastic wrap around each speaker, and each speaker supported on top, bottom, and twice in between by plastic foam. Speaker wood finish, in the basement light, seems / feels extremely well done - someone at Zu is doing a nice job / paying close attention. Also looks like Zu is using close router tolerances for the driver openings, too.  :thumb: Nice speaker connector posts, too. I note the speakers ship with rounded feet fastened and spikes in a bag; they are serviceable but as neither are much to write home about, maybe I'll start looking for moderately priced after-market spikes if I decide to keep the speakers - suggestions welcome.

Glad I chose the natural finish, the Mrs. and I agree that finish will go great in our dedicated listening room once the Defs get burned-in (kudos for the high WAF, Zu!) And I feel the Omen Defs definitely sound like they need some serious run-in time.

morganc

Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #333 on: 24 Dec 2010, 12:01 am »
Good Luck with the Omen Defs.  Mine definitely are requiring a ton of break-in though I live in an apartment and I only have tubes, so I have no possibility of cranking it up for a few weeks. 

I did want to share a bit of information that I learned from Sean Casey at Zu yesterday as I had a ? about the Omen vs the Defs.  He says the Defs have more dynamics, more resolution, and more detail than the Omens.  He also prefers for the Omens and the Defs solid state amps such as Pass Labs XA30.5, First Watt J2, First Watt F3.....and for tubes he thinks the amp I have the Melody I2A3 is a great choice, though he thought the Yamamoto A08S would be even better (anybody got one? :D) For those of you with the Superfly's, he definitely recommends a tube amp.  Just thought it nice to share my experience.....I should also add, that Sean is very easy to talk to, has never tried to steer me in any direction, and is not an over the top salesman as are some in the industry. 

Thanks and Happy Holidays to you all :thumb:
Morgan



My Omen Defs in natural maple finish have arrived and now starting burn-in. Zu's nicely done packaging survived FedEx - just a couple pokes in one of the boxes. The Mrs. huffed a bit helping me bring each of the boxes to the basement, probably not a one person job, yet a job that two men can easily handle. Packaging inside the boxes was well executed: drivers covered tightly with sturdy plastic black "frisbees", top-to-bottom plastic wrap around each speaker, and each speaker supported on top, bottom, and twice in between by plastic foam. Speaker wood finish, in the basement light, seems / feels extremely well done - someone at Zu is doing a nice job / paying close attention. Also looks like Zu is using close router tolerances for the driver openings, too.  :thumb: Nice speaker connector posts, too. I note the speakers ship with rounded feet fastened and spikes in a bag; they are serviceable but as neither are much to write home about, maybe I'll start looking for moderately priced after-market spikes if I decide to keep the speakers - suggestions welcome.

Glad I chose the natural finish, the Mrs. and I agree that finish will go great in our dedicated listening room once the Defs get burned-in (kudos for the high WAF, Zu!) And I feel the Omen Defs definitely sound like they need some serious run-in time.

JoMoCo

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Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #334 on: 24 Dec 2010, 12:05 am »
note the speakers ship with rounded feet fastened and spikes in a bag; they are serviceable but as neither are much to write home about, maybe I'll start looking for moderately priced after-market spikes if I decide to keep the speakers - suggestions welcome....
No affilliation... a good place to check out some options....I have purchased several different models and used them on a couple of projects before... :weights:

http://www.oregondv.com/spikes.htm

djbnh

Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #335 on: 24 Dec 2010, 02:18 am »
Sean Casey at Zu ...says the Defs have more dynamics, more resolution, and more detail than the Omens.  He also prefers for the Omens and the Defs solid state amps such as Pass Labs XA30.5, First Watt J2, First Watt F3.....

Morgan
And good luck to you as well. I have Odyssey Extreme Monos, so I hope post-burn in that there will be synergy between the amps and Omen Defs. Thanks for the info.

PS - wonder how bass reproduction would be with the Yamamoto?


No affilliation... a good place to check out some options....I have purchased several different models and used them on a couple of projects before... :weights:

http://www.oregondv.com/spikes.htm
Will check them out, many thanks.

morganc

Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #336 on: 24 Dec 2010, 03:04 am »
Bass.....I dont know but honestly the bass from these puppies is massive and clean with the Melody.  I would think it would be fine at the low to moderate levels I listen to.  But would love to hear anyone else's thoughts on the matter. 


And good luck to you as well. I have Odyssey Extreme Monos, so I hope post-burn in that there will be synergy between the amps and Omen Defs. Thanks for the info.

PS - wonder how bass reproduction would be with the Yamamoto?

Will check them out, many thanks.

Charles Xavier

Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #337 on: 24 Dec 2010, 09:25 am »
So Mariusz ,whats the deal on the Omens. Do they sound any better?

eclein

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Re: Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #338 on: 24 Dec 2010, 03:15 pm »
So Mariusz ,whats the deal on the Omens. Do they sound any better?
+1 How are they sounding??

Sam-fi

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Re: Zu Omen - cheap or cheerful or both?
« Reply #339 on: 24 Dec 2010, 04:26 pm »
Been burning in for about 40 hours now and have noticed quite a noticeable change at low level listening. These speakers like to be goosed to sound good out of the box. But as they settle in, I find myself listening at lower and lower levels. I finally have a good placement on the speakers - I took me about 3 hours from carrying them upstairs to getting an optimum gap height and placement. I found that with toe in the soundstage really opened up and that gap height is very important to bass response.








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