AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => All Solid State => Topic started by: simoon on 8 Jun 2020, 10:48 pm
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My old Counterpoint preamp finally failed. And when I say it failed, I mean catastrophically. It is almost unrecognizable as electronics any longer. Way too expensive to repair.
So, while I am waiting to figure out what I want to replace it with, I needed to get something.
As a temporary stopgap solution, I purchased one of the various Chinese MBL 6010 'clone' preamps available all over the internet. I got one of the least expensive, in that it only has one set of inputs, one set of outputs, and a volume control. But it does have excellent OP amps, and other components. Cost about $250 shipped. Took about 3 weeks to arrive.
And no, I don't believe for a second , that other than the basic preamp circuit, it is a clone.
While I was waiting for it to arrive, I had my DAC directly feeding my amps. I could not listen to vinyl, obviously.
It's now in my system. And I have to say, this thing sounds fantastic. Immediately I noticed that the soundstage is huge, bigger than my Counterpoint. And it is dead quiet, which I worried would be the most likely aspect that would be a problem. I haven't noticed any problems with dynamics, distortion, etc. The only problem I found, is a slight turn on thump, but I just leave it on all the time, problem gone.
Do I feel guilty? Not really. There is no intellectual theft going on, since this is an old design and the schematic has been available online for years. I am not taking any money our of MBL's or any MBL dealer's pocket, since ther is no way, even used, I could afford an MBL preamp. But since this thing sounds so good, it allows me to take more time, and save more money to get a better preamp when I finally do decide.
So, go ahead, flame me, deride me, take away my 'audiophile card', All I know, is I am good for a few or more months until I get a replacement.
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Hey, if it sounds good it IS good. Should I feel guilty if I copy a library cd, buy a used piece of equipment? None of that money goes to it's creator and I will burn in hell. We can both burn in hell, let's just hope they have a killer sound system when we get there!
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I’m sure not going to give you a hard time for what appears to be a great little ‘cheap and cheerful’ buy. I know plenty of audiophiles in Taiwan who buy gear like this because they cannot possibly afford more expensive gear.
I wish you would provide a link! :thumb: It may not be appropriate for what I have in mind, but I’ll wager the manufacturer or eBay/AlliExpress, etc. will provide more models at the bottom of the page.
Good find!
Michael
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I’ll go the other way , if it sounds great ?, Why not keep it as your end game preamplifier?
I’m over the moon with my $60 (paid $39 on sale) Phillips 9500 open back headphones, and I am super content with the sound they deliver to me !!
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Your money your choice. Go for it. I guess point of origin is as well subjective.
charles
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Congrats on the preamp. I may buy one myself for a bedroom system. I don't believe for a second that it is a clone. The original MBL6010D was about 5 times the size of yours and weighed 77 pounds and cost over $20K. I would love a shot at modifying it with better caps and resistors.
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This one includes remote volume control for $299.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Balanced-preamplifier-Remote-control-volume-Citation-MBL6010D-Finished-110V/183024369160?hash=item2a9d1a3e08:g:Ji0AAOSwBEpZpio~
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I’m sure not going to give you a hard time for what appears to be a great little ‘cheap and cheerful’ buy. I know plenty of audiophiles in Taiwan who buy gear like this because they cannot possibly afford more expensive gear.
I wish you would provide a link! :thumb: It may not be appropriate for what I have in mind, but I’ll wager the manufacturer or eBay/AlliExpress, etc. will provide more models at the bottom of the page.
Good find!
Michael
This is the one I purchased:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32454538674.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61224c4dvaDpAq (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32454538674.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61224c4dvaDpAq)
And yes, there are other models with more inputs, remote control, different OP amps, etc.
They also have: Mark Levinson, Jadis, FM Acousics and other clones.
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Congrats on the preamp. I may buy one myself for a bedroom system. I don't believe for a second that it is a clone. The original MBL6010D was about 5 times the size of yours and weighed 77 pounds and cost over $20K. I would love a shot at modifying it with better caps and resistors.
True.
But for sure, on original has a much different power supply, more features, etc.
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This is the one I purchased:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32454538674.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61224c4dvaDpAq (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32454538674.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61224c4dvaDpAq)
And yes, there are other models with more inputs, remote control, different OP amps, etc.
They also have: Mark Levinson, Jadis, FM Acousics and other clones.
I know this is an old post, but was just looking st this preamp and Googled reviews on it, which lead me here.
Curious as to what your long term thoughts were about it.
Thanks.
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Have this in my system now and it is a giant killer. 4 inputs + xlr, mute function via remote and that`s it. High-end performance, nothing less but simple.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=170698.0
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Have this in my system now and it is a giant killer. 4 inputs + xlr, mute function via remote and that`s it. High-end performance, nothing less but simple.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=170698.0
Sorry, valid link?
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Link from Simoon shows the unit is no longer available. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32454538674.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.61224c4dvaDpAq
WEILIANG AUDIO refer to MBL6010D fully balanced preamplifier deluxe version
Sorry, this item is no longer available!
I am intrigued how some of these Chinese knockoff preamps can compete with far more expensive, well known models.
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Sorry, valid link?
Oops, sorry, here`s one to ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/255122499405
Alixpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004874382879.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.315738daQqyTVD&mp=1
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Oops, sorry, here`s one to ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/255122499405
Alixpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004874382879.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.315738daQqyTVD&mp=1
Thank you very much...which one did you get? The aliexpress is a branded product, the ebay is not; circuit layout appears to be the same but the color and shape in most parts are different.
Mario
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I won't flame you but be sure to unplug the darn thing when you're not around so your house doesn't burn down ! :nono:
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I won't flame you but be sure to unplug the darn thing when you're not around so your house doesn't burn down ! :nono:
Tryin to be funny? This thing is among the safest units you can put in a system unlike many US-made components, and on top of that it sounds better and costs less.
Had a hifi-friend stopping by today and he was off course curious about this Chinese clone. Didn`t need to ask, his face was a big WOW as he sat listening to some Pink Floyd I had on my turntable. He told me that he in all his years had never heard this record play anything like this. (The Wall, Harvest)
This simple pre is a true giant-killer. Absolutely open and killer dynamics.
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Thank you very much...which one did you get? The aliexpress is a branded product, the ebay is not; circuit layout appears to be the same but the color and shape in most parts are different.
Mario
Mine is branded but as you say I think they`re all from the same factory, the Aliexpress-site gives us a hint
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wonder whether the upgraded op amps version is worth it. or, hunting down your own opamps like bursons.
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wonder whether the upgraded op amps version is worth it. or, hunting down your own opamps like bursons.
For $55 upcharge, 10pcs opa627+4pcs muse8820 is a real bargain, provided that they aren't fake op-amps.
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Thanks Jon. Yah cost me $50 to get a single Muses02 op amp. So I see the $$ value but is the SQ upgrade meaningful?
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Product description is a little confusing (Chinese effort to translate to English - a lot better than I could translate English to Chinese!) but saw no option for more than 1 set of outputs, darn.
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is this what you were looking for?
4. Unbalanced RCA output + full-balanced XLR output
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is this what you were looking for?
4. Unbalanced RCA output + full-balanced XLR output
I was looking for all unbalanced (RCA). 2 or more inputs and 2 outputs (one output to my amp and one to my subs)
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wonder whether the upgraded op amps version is worth it. or, hunting down your own opamps like bursons.
Good question! I found mine to be annoyingly forward in the midrange. Mine came with 10xOPA627 and 4xMUSE8020
It was strikingly hard and shouty in the midrange with original op amps fitted. I was about to replace it but a friend reminded me to try some op-amp rolling before I gave it up.
As the OPA627 is known for being musical components, I was only left with the option of replacing the four MUSE's. I had four LME49720 lying around so I put them in place in the sockets without any further hopes. The preamp is unrecognizable. It no longer shouts, female vocals no longer have any harshness but sound very clean and realistic.
Possibly the most dynamic preamp I've heard. Reference level.
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which LME49720 version to get?
there's two on this site:
https://www.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/audio-ics/audio-amplifiers/?m=Texas%20Instruments&series=LME49720
LME49720NA/NOPB
LME49720MAX/NOPB
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I was looking for all unbalanced (RCA). 2 or more inputs and 2 outputs (one output to my amp and one to my subs)
u can use adapter.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GJTCY6L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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which LME49720 version to get?
there's two on this site:
https://www.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/audio-ics/audio-amplifiers/?m=Texas%20Instruments&series=LME49720
LME49720NA/NOPB
LME49720MAX/NOPB
Hi there!
I bought the LME49720NA/NOPB and they really did it
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Hi there!
I bought the LME49720NA/NOPB and they really did it
Thanks!
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I got lucky and found a used one on audiomart. I haven't opened it up to see what op amps are in there. But, it sounds great as is. For the price, this is ridiculously good. I am not a fan of blue velvet potentiometers. Maybe this could be swapped out for further improvement but I am not dying to do so. I can leave it as is.
Just opened it up and all op amps are JRC 5534DD.
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So, this is what happened. I replaced every 5534 opamp with LME49720NA. Logically speaking, they should all work right? Well, it didn't sound right. When using the balanced output, I get scratchy, low volume sound. So, I put back 2 of the 5534 opamps in the red position:
(https://i.postimg.cc/GBgcr2zN/Amp.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GBgcr2zN)
Afterwards, the unbalanced inputs works but not the balanced. So, I put 4 of the 5534 opamps back in the blue position and the balanced input sounded fine. But, when switching to unbalanced output, it still sounded scratchy, low volume. So, I swapped back all the other 5534s. Now, the preamp creates a buzzing sound. And, the opamp closest to the blue transformer started to create smoke.
So, did I break this preamp, and is there a way to un-break it?
Side note, the 5534 in the position closest to the blue transformer had a crack on it. So, possibly the op amp was over heating even before the op amp swapping?
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So, this is what happened. I replaced every 5534 opamp with LME49720NA. Logically speaking, they should all work right? Well, it didn't sound right. When using the balanced output, I get scratchy, low volume sound. So, I put back 2 of the 5534 opamps in the red position:
(https://i.postimg.cc/GBgcr2zN/Amp.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/GBgcr2zN)
Afterwards, the unbalanced inputs works but not the balanced. So, I put 4 of the 5534 opamps back in the blue position and the balanced input sounded fine. But, when switching to unbalanced output, it still sounded scratchy, low volume. So, I swapped back all the other 5534s. Now, the preamp creates a buzzing sound. And, the opamp closest to the blue transformer started to create smoke.
So, did I break this preamp, and is there a way to un-break it?
Side note, the 5534 in the position closest to the blue transformer had a crack on it. So, possibly the op amp was over heating even before the op amp swapping?
Hey!
Never a good thing to see and smell smoke out of any audio components.
Yes, sound like something went very wrong there. Hard to tell what is the damage without looking into it closely. But I think you something shorted. Sometime when you remove op-amps in and out especially if you're not careful it might cause the legs of the op-amps to bent and cause a short sometime internally. Or sometime simply because you put it in the wrong way.
Anyway, before you put in new op-amps. It is best to look and measure to see if any other components in there are burnt like the resistors, caps and even the PCB traces.
Well, I'm not an expert on this perhaps others with more knowledge will chime in. Good luck!
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The legs seem to be fine at least during my uninstalling and reinstalling the op amps. And, I did make sure the orientation of the new matched that of the old op amps.
I don't know how to measure. And, the cost to fix this would probably be more than the pre is worth. So, I'd just bin this to paper weight.
Thanks SET man, for your response.
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Since the 5534 in the position closest to the blue transformer had a crack on it before you replaced anything, my guess is the unit had a problem before you touched. It was likely just a matter of time before it would have been on the fritz even if you had not touched it.
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Usually, when an op amp fails it does not have sufficient current to take out input, feedback or output components. Usually when something is working and items are being swapped and then it goes bad it is likely that the swapping was the reason. If an op amp is inserted incorrectly it will short the rails (+15V, -15V power supplies) and draw enough current internally to destroy itself. If the power supply is not taken out (you still have +15V and -15V without noise on it, it is just a matter of removing bad op amps and replacing with known working op amps. Good luck.
I have also found that swapping op amps with same pin outs that the higher speced op amps can oscillate but it all depends on how it is configured in circuit.
Just a note on clones. My experinece with clones is to buy empty board and case, then purchase components from a reputable source such as Mouser Electronics, then populate boards yourself. Did this for a headphone amp, that is sitting in a closet somewhere.
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Doublej. I think that might be the case but oh wellz. Perhaps that's why the seller never replied my emails after the pre was sold. It was just about tracking # and such... way before I opened the pre up.
George, I got the LME from mouser. The 5534 who knows the source but was sounding very good before the op amp swap.
After I swapped in the LME and 5534 and using balanced input and output, the sound was noticeably different. Much calmer with blacker background. Didn't get a chance to listen to it long enough to determine whether it was actually better. The 5534 did have its own attributes such as sounding more solid and weighty.
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I also like this pre amp very much. So if anyone is "on the fence" thinking about this; go for it. Mine has the 1611 OP Amp. All I did to it was change the volume knob because I didn't like the feel of the 'flat' one on there, and the power iec inlet. The oem iec inlet had a very loose fit, and I felt like the power cable could just fall out by itself almost. Replaced it with a Furutech gold.
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvtNBtHH/3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JnkqSgTh/5.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jSxMCMj8/1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjhNbNVD/2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XqKgY56S/4.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/JzpPXjDR/Furutech.jpg)
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Thanks Saba going to get some OPA1611 too.
As for my unit, found out what happened.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nsdgKtLs/PXL-20240414-051916729.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsdgKtLs)
The op amp that smoked, some bad soldering.
My friend who quality checked this preamp said I should use single op amp. The LME49720 is a dual. And, I should replace all my old op amps as they are likely bad after the first one smoked as they are railed.