AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: Marbles on 6 Apr 2005, 04:01 pm
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As a service to those who are interested in or are buying the Salk Sound Veracity HT3, I thought I would start a thread listing the upgrades I'm getting, and I was hoping those who have ordered would do the same in case I missed something.
Jim's attitude as near as I can tell is: If you want something..you should be able to get it, but it will cost you....I'm very cool with that.
For me, I'm getting Waterfall Bubinga with solid Bubinga baffle.
Upgrades:
Interanl wiring will be Ridge Street Audio Poiema!!
Binding posts will be Cardas Patented
XO will be upgraded to Sonicaps where possible and small value Sonicap bypassing caps other places.
Finish is a hand rubbed laquer
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Marbles, bubinga wood (http://www.artcnet.com/Ruth_Elgart/chastity.html). Its a nice finish...should look really nice in your room !! :D [/list:u]
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Nice wood (and as Major Woodie, I should know :wink: ) but the title needs a little work..Chastity???
The veneer that Jim has should be similar to this....
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht1-bubinga02.jpg)
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Good thread, Marbles - thank you!
Do you (or anyone else) know what the standard internal parts are for those items that you are upgrading? Jim's website does a good job of discussing the finishing options, but I'm wondering about things like wire, caps, binding posts, etc..
By the way, do the "Cardas Patented Binding Posts (http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=10&pagestring=Patented+Binding+Posts)" have the same actual post as the "Cardas Binding Posts (http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=11&pagestring=Binding+Posts)" but simply offer a better mechanical connection?
Thanks!
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First I want to discuss the binding posts. The Patented posts do have a sleave to take the internal wire to the binding post. I won't be using it though.
The Ridge Street Poiema!! is a ribbon speaker cable and getting a flat cable into a round hole wouldn't work. What Jim (and Robert Schult) is going to do is make a small slot just beneath the binding post for the internal wire to come out of. It will then make a 90* turn straight up and into the posts. Then I will lay the external wire on top of this, creating an external to internal speaker wire connection thus removing any sonic deteriment the binding post could cause.
Jim uses Lynx wire which is an OFC with a silver coating cable as standard.
On all XO's but the HT3, he uses Sonicaps, but he only uses Sonicaps on the tweeter of the HT3. I do not know what other caps he uses, or any other XO parts.
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Thanks for the clarifications and additional information, Marbles!
Your concept for the Cardas Patented Binding Post/Poiema!! combination is interesting. If you have copper or silver coated wire coming from inside the speaker (and want to keep it raw instead of attaching spades), I'm guessing you would want to use Silclear or Walker SST at the junction to prevent/reduce oxidation.
That binding post concept also gives me an idea...
For those that might be looking at externally housed crossovers, why not eliminate the speaker mounted binding post entirely? Basically, you would simply increase the length of the "internal" speaker wire from each driver and pass the excess out of what would be the binding post holes. (I'm guessing that a strain relief device at this location would be a good idea.) The extra length - chosen for your needs - becomes your speaker wire. This still leaves you a binding post at the external crossover, but eliminates the extra post at the speaker that an external crossover would normally require. You could even implement the Marbles/Salk/Schult connection at the external crossover if desired.
The only downside that I can see is that you can't swap speaker cables later. Assuming the use of good wire to begin with, I don't know that this would be an acoustic issue. It would still be an issue if you need a longer length later. If you are prone to constant speaker replacement or just long term thinking, I guess it might also affect resale value.
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You could certainly change speaker cable later...just disconnect at the driver and run new wire to the outboard XO. You would have to pull each driver you needed changed, but that would be no big deal.
That is a good idea for people who do get the outboard XO....
Which is another option I failed to mention above......Thanks
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No problem.
I guess I was assuming a soldered connection of the speaker wires to the drivers, although I certainly don't know this to be the case. Even then, many people still wouldn't have a problem with changing out the wires.
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Marbles -
Just to get you in the mood, here is a pair of HT3's in the finish you ordered (except your's will have a piano gloss finish).
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht3-3dbubinga.jpg)
- Jim
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:notworthy:
Wonder what they look like in Macassar Ebony and Figured Claro Walnut....
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Wow, those look damn good Jim!!
It's going to be a hard time deciding on what my second pair of HT3's should look like...
BTW, I have a very experienced friend coming over this week to hear the HT3's for the first time - I am anxiously awaiting his thoughts...
George
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I did some HT1's in that combination (macassar ebony and claro walnut) and thought they were about the nicest combination I had ever done. But they went to a client before I had a chance to get a picture.
Here are some HT1's I just finished in macassar ebony with fiddleback plum-pudding mahogany supplied by the client.
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht1-mahog_ebony.jpg)
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht1-mahog_ebony_detail.jpg)
Too bad you can't really see the ebony very well.
As for the HT3's, I guess we'll find out in time...
- Jim
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George -
Let me know what he thinks.
- Jim
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I did some HT1's in that combination (macassar ebony and claro walnut) and thought they were about the nicest combination I had ever done. But they went to a client before I had a chance to get a picture.
Jim,
Looks like you managed to snap off a picture after all:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/galleryimage.php/Zybar-s-Dedicated-Music-and-HT-Room-Living-Room/ht1_macassar1.jpg)
It really is a stunning combination.
George
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Marbles -
Just to get you in the mood, here is a pair of HT3's in the finish you ordered (except your's will have a piano gloss finish).
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht3-3dbubinga.jpg)
- Jim
Drip, drip, drip...pulls some of Marbles fingernails out....drip drip drip.
Thanks for the torture Jim..... :lol:
Speakers look great in pictures...even better in person. Looking forward to getting them 8)
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George -
I forgot about that one. That is not the pair I was thinking about. I forgot I had done that HT1, for use as a center channel, in that same combination. Thanks.
- Jim
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I did some HT1's in that combination (macassar ebony and claro walnut) and thought they were about the nicest combination I had ever done. But they went to a client before I had a chance to get a picture.
Here are some HT1's I just finished in macassar ebony with fiddleback plum-pudding mahogany supplied by the client.
Too bad you can't really see the ebony very well.
As for the HT3's, I guess we'll find out in time...
We shall see them in my living room :D in about 5 weeks!
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Looks like Jim will be raising his prices about 10% on June 1st.
Apparently you can lock in the current (lower) price for 12 months with a small deposit.
Details on his website.
www.salksound.com
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Thanks for the notice, Marbles, and Jim is very considerate to give people both a fair warning and such a generous offer.
When are you supposed to get your custom-modified HT3's, Marbles?
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He's working on them now, but it could take a while because of the Piano Laquer finish. Apparently after he sprays the laquer it has to cure for 10 days before he can procede. If at that point he sands through any part of it, the time frame starts all over again.
My best guess would be about 30-45 days.
The piano laquer finish takes a long time because of the curing, but there is also a LOT of work involved with it as well.
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Congratulation Marbles!!!
I've never seen such a beautiful craftmanship .... Make me drooling too.
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Marbles -
Here is a picture of a pair I just finished. They are curly bubinga with African bosse pommele front baffles and trim. The plinths are bubinga pommele.
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht3-bubinga-bosse.jpg)
This batch of veneer was slightly more brown than the 3D waterfall bubinga I am using for your speakers. And the pattern is curly rather than waterfall. But the slightly more brown coloration goes well with the reddish/caramel colored bosse. Ah, the world of woods...
- Jim
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As long as this is on the topic of options, I thought I would post a picture of the passive/active wiring option.
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/passive-active.jpg) (http://www.salksound.com/gallery/active-switch.jpg)
The bottom two sets of binding posts feed the crossovers. The woofer crossover is wired to the lower set and the midrange and tweeter circuits are wired to the top set of bottom posts.
The outputs of each crossover is fed to a swtich. Each switch is also combined with another set of binging posts. The top three sets of binding posts are wired to their associated switches and the output of the switches feed the drivers.
So when the switches are in the down position, inputs to the two bottom sets of binding posts are fed to the crossovers and through the switches to the drivers.
When the switches are in the up position, the passive crossovers are completely removed from the circuit and the top three sets of binding posts are connected directly to the associated drivers (for use with an outboard active crossover and amps). This will allow for future use of a DEQX-type system for a combination of active crossovers and room correction.
- Jim
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Nice clean arangement, Jim!
Is this going to be the "HT3a" arrangement, or is this just a custom option and the HT3a will have just the 3 sets of posts and no passive crossover at all?
I know that some people get particular about switches in the signal path... did you evaluate different switch options?
Thanks!
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brj -
The HT3a will have just three sets of binding posts and no switches. There was simply no way to avoid switches in this set-up. The passive crossovers must be completely removed in order to use the active option and switches were the only way to accomplish it without resorting to internal re-wiring.
But this set-up allows both passive and active use and can actually be used to switch back and forth to do A/B comparisons (provided you have an adequate number of amplifier channels).
I am finishing a similar pair for myself right now and will begin development of the active crossovers via DEQX soon.
- Jim
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Marbles -
Just to get you in the mood, here is a pair of HT3's in the finish you ordered (except your's will have a piano gloss finish).
(http://www.salksound.com/gallery/ht3-3dbubinga.jpg)
- Jim
Drool... man, I wish I could hear those. Anybody in NC got them?
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Drool... man, I wish I could hear those. Anybody in NC got them?
dh-
Not yet, but there will be a pair in Charlotte in about 45 days provided the ebony wood arrives soon.
- Jim
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dhwilkin
The pair that Jim is referring to in Charlotte, NC is mine.
Email me at bingenito@carolina.rr.com and I will schedule myself a reminder to contact you when the speakers arrive and are setup properly.
Bryan
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I travel to Charlotte on business, and I would be very interested to hear them too.
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If there is anybody in the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT) that wants to hear the HT3's, give me a shout.
I assure you, you won't be disappointed.
George
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Anyone that wants to hear them just email me at the address I listed in the earlier post. Title the email "HT3 demo" I will contact you and we can arrange a demo.
This is also a good opportunity to hear some Blue Circle gear and a Sim Eclipse limited edition.
Once they are setup correctly and broken in I will more than likely host a get together for those interested.
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Thanks Jim & Bryan, I expect I'll be taking you up on that offer. :)
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Anyone have a pair of HT3's in Atlanta, GA that they wouldn't mind letting me hear? I'm in town on business for a couple of days and I haven't been able to find a pair anywhere at home...
Thanks!
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Jim mentioned today that he has recently finished a pair of HT3's that had all Sonicaps in the XO. He thought it an improvement..in fact he might make that his standard...
My HT3's will be finished this weekend with the following audio upgrades:
Sonicaps in the XO plus teflon bypass caps on the larger caps.
Ridge Street Poima! internal wiring and jumpers.
Black Hole 5
extra bracing
Cardas "patented" binding posts
The BH5 and extra bracing can only help the lower and mid frequencies become even more clear and focused.
The binding posts and internal wire will make my external Ridge Street speaker wire basically go from amp to the drivers.
It remains to be heard wether the bypass caps will make any difference..but for $155 what the hell...
Jim stated he has very high hopes for my speakers 8)
With the high gloss laquer finish, I'm pretty sure they will sound as good as they look.....
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Marbles those should be very special. The Cardas "patented" posts -- assuming you refer to the double posts with single tightening knob -- are my favorite. I had them on my JRDG amp and really miss them. My TacT amps have expensive WBT posts (that had plastic safety shields which were a bitch to remove) and I don't like them nearly as much. The Cardas posts will only accept spades but you probably already know that.
I think it is a good idea to use the same wire internally and externally. I have seen a few speakers where the internal wires were brought out through small holes and connected to the external portion of the binding posts. The speaker cable spades then directly contacts the internal wires, thus effectively bypasses the binding posts. Maybe something to think about ...
Keep us posted !
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Eric, that's exactley the way my binding posts will be set up. In fact Jim has to make a slot in the cabinet just below the binding posts (it is ribbon wire) and then the wire comes out of the cabinet and turns up at a 90* angle into the binding posts. The external wire will then sit on the internal wire in the binding post, and as you say, take the binding post out of the signal path.
These binding posts normally use the metal tubes to help keep them from turning in the cabinet as well as be the conduit for the internal wire. With mine, the metal tubes have been replaced with wooden dowel to keep the posts from turning.
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All the HT3 pics look absolutely gorgeous
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The HT-3's with upgraded caps in the crossovers that Jim just completed are mine. I ordered them back in February but we had to wait for the upgraded caps to be delivered. But they should be shipping today and it's possible they will be here by Friday for some weekend listening (I hope so because I will be too busy at work for any listening next week).
Jim mentioned to me that he had A-B's the new speakers to his reference pair and thought the new ones, although not broken in, were a bit more transparent in the mids and highs. I also opted for a switchable active/passive option in case I want to use an active crossover one day (such as the DEQX system).
The speakers are makore with Mexican cocobolo baffles -- similar to (but, I think a bit nicer looking than) the HT-3's in the home theater setup that Jim posted a few days ago. Here are a couple of pix:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=5343)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=5344)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=5345)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=811)
I will post listening imprssions after they arrive.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=5343)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=5344)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=5345)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=811) .
Very nice baffles.
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The HT-3's with upgraded caps in the crossovers that Jim just completed are mine. I ordered them back in February but we had to wait for the upgraded caps to be delivered. But they should be shipping today and it's possible they will be here by Friday for some weekend listening (I hope so because I will be too busy at work for any listening next week).
Jim mentioned to me that he had A-B's the new speakers to his reference pair and thought the new ones, although not broken in, were a bit more transparent ...
When the switches are in the mode of using the passive crossovers, do you need to jumper between the binding posts?
I am trying to decide if I go this route or just have the crossovers externally in an enclosure.
George
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When the switches are in the mode of using the passive crossovers, do you need to jumper between the binding posts?
I am trying to decide if I go this route or just have the crossovers externally in an enclosure.
George
No, they are internally wired (jumped) in passive mode, the switch takes the jumpers and XO's out of the signal path when you want to go active.
I did not go this route because I did not want the switches in the signal path, nor do I think I will tri-amp.
I have two sets of binding posts (heck maybe it's 3, I can't remember now) that are jumpered with Poiema! so I can bi-wire/bi-amp.
If you use 3 sets of binding posts with the top one without any connections, then you can bi-wire/bi-amp and if you want to tri-amp
it would be an easy thing to take the drivers out, re-run the internal wire so it bypasses the XO's and hooks to the 3 sets of binding posts.
The difference is ease of going back and forth with the switches vs the detriment of having switches in the signal path.
I went for purity of the signal.
The above is of course with internally mounted XO's.
If I were you, I would have external XO's made, which would give you purity of signal AND and easy way to go back and forth.
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kschac :
The HT-3's with upgraded caps in the crossovers that Jim just completed are mine. I ordered them back in February but we had to wait for the upgraded caps to be delivered. But they should be shipping today and it's possible they will be here by Friday for some weekend listening (I hope so because I will be too busy at work for any listening next week).
[/list:u]Happy listening Ken !!! I remember you telling me at George's Rave in Feb. that you ordered them. They look good !!!! Looks like a great weekend of listening. [/list:u]Will you be using them with the TACT as well ? Thanks.[/list:u]
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Hi Chris:
Yes, it took a while, but they are finally done. I do plan to use the TacT RCS 2.2x for correction -- once I've had a chance to listen to them sans correction and see how they sound out of the box. I will definitely post listening impressions once I've had a real chance to hear them.
Ken
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Ken,
They pretty darn good without correction, but they really shine with the proper room correction employed.
It will be interesting to see how they measure in your room vs. mine.
What were the dimensions of your room?
Slightly off topic...you really must get the Aberdeen PS for your TacT if you haven't already. Very noticeable improvement and well worth the money.
George
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George:
Yes, we should compare notes after I am up and running. My room is about 28 x 14 x 9. It's a pretty nice size, but it's our living room and isn't dedictaed to music and theater, as yours is.
I've heard great things about the Aberdeen. It's next on my upgrade list. How simple is it to install? I have no soldering skills, but I understand no soldering is required.
Regards
Ken
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George:
Yes, we should compare notes after I am up and running. My room is about 28 x 14 x 9. It's a pretty nice size, but it's our living room and isn't dedictaed to music and theater, as yours is.
I've heard great things about the Aberdeen. It's next on my upgrade list. How simple is it to install? I have no soldering skills, but I understand no soldering is required.
Regards
Ken
Ken,
I have the Aberdeen Signature PSU also. Installation takes less than five minutes. Even my wife could do it!
All you need to do is remove the eight hex screws holding the top chassis panel in place. After the top panel is off, remove the two socketed wire connectors from the stock PSU. Then take out the four phillips screws holding the PSU in place. Lift out the stock PSU and replace with the Abderdeen unit -- it is a drop-in upgrade that fits perfectly. Secure in place with the four Phillips screws, reconnect the two socketed wire connectors, the replace the top plate. DONE!
I echo George's sentiments about this upgrade. I found the new PSU to improve soundstaging and air around individual instruments and significantly drop the noise floor. I never thought the stock 2.2X had significant digital noise until I upgraded.
Anthony's customer service is first rate. He continues to make improvements on these units and graciously offered to update my PSU to the latest design (capacitor exchange and new high speed diode bridge) at no extra cost. Turnover time is one day.
As I also have TacT amps, I will probably try out his new upgrades for them too. Next time I drive to Vegas I'll bring them with me and pay him a visit!
There is another individual advertising TacT upgrades on Audiogon, but he has basically no experience working on TacT gear other than one Millenium amp. He wants your money - $800 - and promises huge improvements without telling you what will be done. Anthony, on the other hand, will give you lots of information as to what he does and why, his prices are very reasonable, and also his modifications will not void warranty. His business is largely devoted to TacT and he is very familiar with all their products.
Eric
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Sounds pretty simple and very worthwhile. I have clung to using my Levinson 380S preamp after the TacT (and my Benchmark outboard DAC), partly to avoid the analog-digital-analog conversion on LPs and SACD (I have the TacT ADC board) -- but also because I felt the system is a bit more dynamic with the Levinson in the chain. Maybe the upgraded PS would obviate the need for the Levinson?
Thanks.
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When the switches are in the mode of using the passive crossovers, do you need to jumper between the binding posts?
I am trying to decide if I go this route or just have the crossovers externally in an enclosure.
George
George -
The bottom pair of binding posts provide the input to the woofer and midrange/tweeter crossover sections. If you do not bi-wire, they need to be jumpered. Of course, if you never wish to bi-wire, I could certainly feed all three crossovers from a single set of binding posts.
The three sets of binding posts above that are for the woofer, midrange and tweeter respectively.
The way it is set up, the outputs of the crossovers are fed to switches just above each of these three sets of binding posts. When the switches are in the down position, the output of the passive crossovers are fed to the respective drivers. When they are in the up position, the passive crossovers are removed from the system and the inputs at each of the upper three sets of binding posts are fed to the respective drivers.
So the upper three sets of binding posts allow for a direct connection to individual amplifiers in an actively-crossed system. This set-up would actually make it possible to do A/B comparisons between active and passive crossovers on the fly (by flipping three switches).
I hope that makes sense.
- Jim
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Thanks for the responses Rob and Jim.
I think I will stick with my original plan and go with external crossovers.
Now if I could just sell some gear... :cry:
George
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Sounds pretty simple and very worthwhile. I have clung to using my Levinson 380S preamp after the TacT (and my Benchmark outboard DAC), partly to avoid the analog-digital-analog conversion on LPs and SACD (I have the TacT ADC board) -- but also because I felt the system is a bit more dynamic with the Levinson in the chain. Maybe the upgraded PS would obviate the need for the Levinson?
Thanks.
With the upgrade I don't find any noticeable improvement adding my very well reviewed Audio Logic 24MXL dac into the chain (which is why it is for sale).
I feel that with Abderdeen PS the TacT becomes an excellent preamp AND dac.
Sorry for getting off topic...back to the Salk HT3's.
George
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I think I will stick with my original plan and go with external crossovers.
George
That's definitely what I would do. Are you getting the Cardas 'patented' posts on your next HT3s ?
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Congratulations those are some gorgeous speakers :!: Outstanding job Jim.
I will be counting down the days until I get my fully tweaked HT3s. The past few days I have been trying not to think about the speakers so that I can hold out for a few more weeks but these pictures of exotic HT3s keep showing up and taunting me. :violin:
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Howdy...
Can somebody tell me how efficient the H3 and H1's are? I wonder if they would mate well with Red Wine Dual Mono amps that I am getting this weekend.
Thanks again,
Bill Laurent
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Howdy...
Can somebody tell me how efficient the H3 and H1's are? I wonder if they would mate well with Red Wine Dual Mono amps that I am getting this weekend.
Thanks again,
Bill Laurent
I think they are in the 86DB 1w/1m range, but I'm not positive of that. They are not high effeciency speakers by any means...
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Howdy...
Can somebody tell me how efficient the H3 and H1's are? I wonder if they would mate well with Red Wine Dual Mono amps that I am getting this weekend.
Thanks again,
Bill Laurent
I don't think that combo will work too well, but you never know.
The HT3's are 86db efficient, but seem to like power.
I use a McCormack DNA-500 (600 watts into 8 ohms) with them and it is a magical combo.
George
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Specs direct from the Salk Sound site
HT3: http://www.salksound.com/HT3-specs.html
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Zybar I see that you posted your review on Audio Review. Great job. Hopefully others will do the same, I know I will.
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Let the Honeymoon begin... :lol: 8)
Got my HT3's/HTC this afternoon.
Jim did an AWESOME job with the fit/finish on all 3 speakers.
The only upgrade these speakers did not get was a solid wood cap for the ports in the lower back part of the HT3's...I just found out about that today.
So far I'm VERY impressed...
:dance: :notworthy: :rock:
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Congrats Marbles.
Now... pictures and listening impressions!
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Jim took some pictures that I'm sure will find their way here in the next few days.
Listening impressions mirror my earlier HT1 and HT3 listening sessions.
Some of the best bass I've heard, the whole audio image is very engaging...I get lost in the music rather than listening to it.
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The only upgrade these speakers did not get was a solid wood cap for the ports in the lower back part of the HT3's...I just found out about that today.
That was another upgrade I had Jim do to mine. Since it was just for looks I did not mention it.
Enjoy the speakers!
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Marbles:
Let the Honeymoon begin...
[/list:u]Enjoy the new sounds...spin some of those cdr's (Bad Plus, Black Light)...and when their set up...maybe some picture's of the room, thanks Rob...have fun !!! :dance: [/list:u]
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Jim took some pictures that I'm sure will find their way here in the next few days.
Listening impressions mirror my earlier HT1 and HT3 listening sessions.
Some of the best bass I've heard, the whole audio image is very engaging...I get lost in the music rather than listening to it.
Can't wait to see the pictures.
Glad you are having the same response I had when I first got mine and continue to have all these months later! :dance:
George
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I want to see the pictures too. I wonder if the high gloss finish shows well in photos. Do any of the previously posted photos have high gloss? I need to pick out the finish for the speakers I'm having made and I think I want high gloss. Imagine High gloss and black stain on this Japanese Tamo Ash finish:
(http://www.woodveneer.com/exotics/art/TAMOASHR.JPG)
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I want to see the pictures too. I wonder if the high gloss finish shows well in photos. Do any of the previously posted photos have high gloss? I need to pick out the finish for the speakers I'm having made and I think I want high gloss. Imagine High gloss and black stain on this Japanese Tamo Ash finish:
Based on my conversation with Jim I think the high gloss will be hard to photograph. Between the reflective gloss finish and the figure of the wood you would need to be a real pro photographer to display what the speakers look like in person.
Not sure if any of the others were hand rubbed high gloss lacquer like Marbles.
I think your choice of finish would look incredible and have a nice contrast.
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Enjoy the new sounds...spin some of those cdr's (Bad Plus, Black Light)...and when their set up...maybe some picture's of the room, thanks Rob...have fun !!! :dance:
The speakers look great, but according to my 10 YO daughter, don't "go" with the rest of the things in the room. My wife was telling her to hush because she didn't want me buying all new HT gear top match the new speakers... :lol:
Anyway, my daughter is right, the new speakers far outclass most all the other things I have, except maybe the Teres turntable. They sure are stunners to look at, and natural to listen too. Since they don't go with the room so well, I'm reluctant to post pic's. I do think that Jim will post some very nice ones, at least on his site.
As far as what they sound like, I'll quote Jim when he first heard them..."I just hear music" ..." I don't know how I could build a better speaker" "I don't hear anything that I would change...no weakness's at all"
I completely agree....
* I brought my speaker cables up to Jim's house, so it was Ridge Street Poiema! from the amp to XO's, and from XO's to drivers.
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Any comment on the tweaks (bypass caps, wire, BH5) we added or is it too soon to tell?
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Marbles :
The speakers look great, but according to my 10 YO daughter, don't "go" with the rest of the things in the room.
[/list:u]Well...I think they fit just perfect...... :lol: [/list:u]
(http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/galleryimage.php/album02/Chuck1.jpg)[/list:u]That's not Marble's room...its Chuck's.... :lol: [/list:u]Marbles room picture's are in his gallery....just having some fun... :wink: [/list:u]
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snip: double post
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Any comment on the tweaks (bypass caps, wire, BH5) we added or is it too soon to tell?
Jim thought they were better sonically than any other speaker he had made...which up until now was the Sonicap upgraded ones.
I suspect it is a combination of not having any binding posts in the signal path, the upgraded wiring and the bypass caps for the mids/tweets, and the BH5 cleaning up the bass which might also make the mids cleaner too. I guess what I'm saying is we don't know what makes them so special, but the cumulative effect just works.
I heard you are using the cardas (not patented) binding posts. You might want to reconsider if you can use spades on the speaker side.
Since I have not lived with the HT3's and only heard them once at his house and once at a Hotel (AK Fest). I won't be able to give any impressions of increasing fidelity.
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For those who requested, I have posted pics here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20286.msg179570#179570
- Jim
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Well if somebody would buy some of my gear that is for sale, I could order my second pair of HT3's.
Once I receive them, I will be in the unique (I think) position of directly comparing a stock pair with an upgraded pair.
As of right now, I thinking of the following options on my second pair:
Cap Upgrade (SonicCap or VH Audio)
Binding Post Upgrade (Cardas patented)
Wiring Upgrade (TG Audio, VH Audio, or something else)
Extra bracing
BH5
Crossovers in an external enclosure
Considering how good the stock pair of HT3's are, I can only imagine the new level the upgraded pair will be capable of.
George
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I received my HT-3's on Friday afternoon and have been able to get them up and running. Unfortunately, my listening time has been limited, and I probably won't get to listen to them a lot until next weekend. I will eventually post a detailed rview, but my preliminary impression is that, as fantastic as they look (see up in thread for Jim's photos), they sound even better. Very clear, clean and precise. Images are very palpable and solid. I listen mostly to jazz and these speakers really make great recordings shine, and lesser ones sound better than they used to.
I've been through a fair number of speakers in the past 15 years or so - 3 different Thiels, Waveform Mach Solo, Legacy Signature and Focus, VMPS RM40, and most recently Silverline La Folia. Of those, I liked the Waveform, Legacy Sig and La Folia the best. But the HT-3's sound is clearly superior to all of them. They also look far better and are smaller than almost all of them (higher WAF) At least so far, after about 6-8 hours of listening.
I agree with George that, as good as the speakers sound with out of the box(and they do), they sound even better with the Tact 2.2x RCS in the circuit (now featuring the Aberdeen power supply). Thanks for the suggetsion, George.
I will report back will more detailed impressions soon.
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I agree with George that, as good as the speakers sound with out of the box(and they do), they sound even better with the Tact 2.2x RCS in the circuit (now featuring the Aberdeen power supply). Thanks for the suggetsion, George. ...
Assuming it is properly used, the RCS 2.2x will improve any system in any room. I don't believe there are any tradeoffs using it with redbook CD, of course with hi-res digital and vinyl the added ADC stage may be problematic. I have heard the ADC module is not as good as the DAC module, which is excellent and probably on par with most high end outboard models.
Enjoy your new speakers kschac!
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Assuming it is properly used, the RCS 2.2x will improve any system in any room.
I will probably get flamed for this but I do not agree. While I do think there is a benefit to using TACT in a scenario that passive room correction is insufficient if the room issues can be resolved without active correction that would be my personal preference.
If you are going to actively bi or tri amp then I would accept the trade off.
In every decision there are compromises it is just a matter of which ones you are willing to accept.
Just my 2 cents :flame:
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Assuming it is properly used, the RCS 2.2x will improve any system in any room.
I will probably get flamed for this but I do not agree. While I do think there is a benefit to using TACT in a scenario that passive room correction is insufficient if the room issues can be resolved without active correction that would be my personal preference.
If you are going to actively bi or tri amp then I would accept the trade off.
In every decision there are compromises it is just a matter of which ones you are willing to accept.
Just my 2 cents :flame:
No flames :)
We probably just have a different philosophy and that's okay. I prefer the sound to have as little room effect as possible, and there is only so much that can be done with passive treatments. They certainly can do much good, but even an all out Rives design still has significant bass nodes. The only way to get rid of them is some form of analog or digital parametric EQ. Or listen with headphones !
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Assuming it is properly used, the RCS 2.2x will improve any system in any room.
I will probably get flamed for this but I do not agree. While I do think there is a benefit to using TACT in a scenario that passive room correction is insufficient if the room issues can be resolved without active correction that would be my personal preference.
If you are going to actively bi or tri amp then I would accept the trade off.
In every decision there are compromises it is just a matter of which ones you are willing to accept.
Just my 2 cents :flame:
Bryan,
No flames, but I guess I am curious as to why you think that way? What do you think the negative trade-off is?
I have lots of passive room correction (much more than probably 90% of the audiphiles out there) and the TacT still makes a very big imporvement in the enjoyment of my system.
Besides the passive room correction, I have spent hours properly positioning the speakers and listening position to try and minimize room nodes.
Again, the TacT or equivalent products aren't magic and can't address all situations. It will work best when used properly and in conjunction with acoustic treatments and proper placement.
I promise you that your soon to arrive HT3's sound better with the TacT than without.
Too bad you live so far away as I would love to be able to let your hear my system and decide for yourself...
George
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A number of people have asked to have a list of potential HT3 upgrades. And since that is the topic of this thread, I thought that perhaps this was the best place to post a link to a new page on our website featuring this information.
I will try to keep this page updated as additional customization requests are made and fullfilled.
Here is the link:
http://www.salksound.com/ht3-upgrades.html
- Jim
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Looks good Jim. Are you going to add Black Hole 5 to the list?
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Looks good Jim. Are you going to add Black Hole 5 to the list?
Thanks. I knew I forgot something.
Done.
- Jim
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Don't forget external passive crossovers.
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Don't forget external passive crossovers.
Good point. Thanks. I will add them as well.
- Jim
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Hi Jim and ACer's.
Great Idea about the Upgrade/Options Link Jim.
With that, I'm guessing a bit of info might be useful as to why the Poiema!! wire harness works so well with not only the Veracity HT3s but any speaker we've used it in. This includes our own Sason Ltd, Ref 3A MM DeCapo i, and a few other personal and client custom projects.
In short, the harness's are custom made for the loudspeaker they are going to be used with. This is different than almost all other speakers where off the shelf (name brand) hook-up wire or speaker cabling is used.
So what's the big deal about a custom harness? Ideally, the cross over and the driver it's designated to should have the same characteristic impedance in order for the transfer function to work optimally without wasting useful power. An incorrectly terminated wire harness will inhibit that. The only real option left is to choose an internal cable that is euphorically pleasing to the designer or what the designer thinks the market will except.
When the wire harness is not optimized electrically, small reflections and power loss will occur. Picture spraying water through a hose at a screen window. Much of the water gets through but some of it gets "sprayed" back. Not the most efficient transfer. Remove the screen (impedance) and nothing gets wasted. Another illustration: Driving a high performance car down a winding highway and suddenly you encounter a long tunnel. You go through without any headlights on and ram the side wall at 130 mph. This has nothing to do with audio but I was just thinking about it and I thought I would mention it. :o
Virtually all internal wiring in loudspeakers starts at maybe fifteen ohms AC impedance and simply gets worse (most cases) from there. How many loudspeaker systems do you see rated at fifteen Ohms nominal impedance? Me either.
As far as I know, and I think I know, there is not a large production cable manufacturing process that can accomplish suitable impedance characteristics for a loudspeaker system. Even Wilson, if you've seen some of their recent ads, shows their internal wiring being hand tweaked to get what they want. Couple that with some of the proprietary materials we use and the build technique we developed (which has just been refined and improved again) and perhaps it becomes even more evident why the harness's we offer are custom and hand built.
Will the Poiema!! harness make or break a speaker system. I don't think so. What it will do is fully allow all the other effort, design choices and/or options that have gone into the speaker design to be fully realized and that is not inconsequential by any stretch.
Exclusive to our cable harness also, if the manufacturer is willing to implement it as Jim at Salk Sound did for Marbles, is our own method of using the Cardas (patented) binding posts. This is our innovation and is part of the Direct Connect system first introduced on the Sason Ltd loudspeaker system we offer. Simply the best interface for the amp/speaker partnering... period-bar none!
Cheers to all!
Robert
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Robert,
I'm not sure what you were trying to say above...I'm sure the meds will kick in soon.. :lol:
I do remember you taking lots of time and asking a lot of questions regarding the drivers and talking about the proper gauge and length for each run, as well as the terminations, especially with regards to the TC Sounds woofer.
I want to mention that I fully expect these to be my last speakers..or at least I never intend to sell them. If at some point you see them for sale you will know I have fallen on some very hard times. Anyway, I chose Ridge Street internal cabling for my last set of speakers, since I've never heard better cable in my system.
That should say plenty.....
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WoW- they look amazin! Congrats Jim and Marbles!
Jim-regarding center channel-maybe you could make also provide for HTC sitting on top of TC woofer sound box - would be good match for left and right. (kinda like Dali CS4 sitting on top of its sub)
Robert,
I want to mention that I fully expect these to be my last speakers..or at least I never intend to sell them.
:lol: :mrgreen:
Cheers,
Kishore
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Hmmm..so Rob, are the HT3's going to lead you to part with your nOrh 9.0's anytime soon? :)
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Robert,
I've been trying to digest your post. What exactly do you mean when you say :scratch:
Virtually all internal wiring in loudspeakers starts at maybe fifteen ohms AC impedance and simply gets worse (most cases) from there
Surely the wire itself doesn't have 15 ohms impedance, unless you are talking about a 1000' spool of 28 gauge wire.
Ohm's law applies to AC and DC circuits, does it not ?
Of course if you include all the wire in the voice coil of a big woofer in series with the hookup wire, resistance will go up significantly... i.e. to the 4 or 8 ohms range.
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Good morning Ek.
I think I assumed more than I should have. I try to explain things in terms I think everyone will understand since that's one of the ways that I learn and understand stuff. I never would have made it in an EE class room. Even back in '74 I barely made it through high school because of my learning style. I gotta have a reason that interests me to learn, I need things boiled down in pretty simple terms to grasp the meat of it and my learning needs to heavily include a process of application. I'm one of those Abstract/Random personality types. Ha! My wife is Concrete/Sequential. What a (scary) pair we make sometimes! Anyway, probably TMI but...
AC and DC resistance are not the same. DC resistance can simply be measured across a given trace or wire with any DMM set for "resistance". Not so with AC. It's mainly a product of inductance, capacitance and resistance. Take a Digital Cable for example. Measure it's DC resistance either open or closed loop and it's resistance will be somewhere around a 0.0? Ohm value. But measure how it responds to AC, which requires some pretty expensive equipment, and if it was designed right, it will have a value of 75 Ohms.
This all is certainly more involved than just the above but suffice it to say, all impedance includes resistance but not all resistance includes impedance and it's not correct to understand or use the terms "resistance" and "impedance" synonymously.
Cheers!
Robert
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Hmmm..so Rob, are the HT3's going to lead you to part with your nOrh 9.0's anytime soon? :)
I never intend to part with my column 9.0's either.
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A useful link that explains a bit of the theory behind AC & DC measuring: Info (http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:b2djNEEcvLsJ:www1.jaycar.com.au/images_uploaded/ohmpower.pdf+measuring+AC+resistance&hl=en)
FWIW (I don't know anything about measuring AC resistance), it looks as though you need to know the reactance of the circuit so that you can obtain PHI (the phase angle between voltage and current) in order to calculate AC resistance. Or so that is what that link implies.
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Even better! More succinctly explained here....I find this reading fascinating in my sick mind. Doug's Tech Notes (http://www.awiz.com/pdfs/tnote2.pdf)
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Thanks for the clarification, Josh & Robert.
So if the internal hookwire has 15 ohms AC impedance, how much impedance is in the many feet of wire wound around a drivers' voice coil :o
Tech lessons aside, it is refreshing to see how much thought and planning went into building these custom speakers, down to the internal wiring and binding posts. I'm a big fan of the 'patented' Cardas posts.