How well matched are the RIAA modules?

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rickmcinnis

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How well matched are the RIAA modules?
« on: 1 Jun 2006, 09:34 pm »
I have long wanted to make a phono pre-amp using an LC network.  Missed my chance to get the TANGO modules.  But, even then I worried how well matched are these?  

I wondered if S&B specified how close they come to the RIAA curve and even more importantly to each other.

Do they address the 75 uS filter that Allen Wright brought to our attention?  Easy enough to do elsewhere, if not.

I annot think of any disadvantage to using the 10K ohm version, is there something I have not considered.

Thanks

John Chapman

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How well matched are the RIAA modules?
« Reply #1 on: 2 Jun 2006, 12:10 am »
Hello!

Thanks for the questions. I'll do my best to answer them but may need to dig for more info and get back to you.


>I wondered if S&B specified how close they come to the RIAA curve and even more importantly to each other.

The 600 ohm units were what I condidder really close to the curve - somthing like +/- 0.1db or so. Given they follow the curve this close I suspect they are similar in channel to channel matching. When S&B did the 10K version he held off officially selling them forever because he could not get as close a match to the RIAA curve as he'd gotten with the 600 ohm units. I seem to recall he was more like +/-0.5db or so. Having done a lot of speaker measurement work I found it hard to get too worked up about 0.5db deviation! In the past few months we have had the thumbs up to start selling 10K units but I don't have an up to date figure on how close he managed to get them to the match achieved with the 600 ohm model.

> Do they address the 75 uS filter that Allen Wright brought to our attention? Easy enough to do elsewhere, if not.

I am not familliar with that - you have me curious so if you have a link that'd be great. Allen is a great designer for sure!

>I cannot think of any disadvantage to using the 10K ohm version, is there something I have not considered.

Other than the matching issue I agree. The 10K unit opens up a lot more options for circuits ahead of and after the modules. Cost is the same for both.

Once I get some time here (likely next fall) I intend on making a stage with the RIAA modules.  

Thansk!

John

JoshK

How well matched are the RIAA modules?
« Reply #2 on: 2 Jun 2006, 02:30 am »
Further Q....actually Allen Wright's phono stage is what I've been eyeing recently myself.  Can/does the curve in a can work for a balanced circuit? AW's is balanced all the way through.

Bica

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How well matched are the RIAA modules?
« Reply #3 on: 2 Jun 2006, 03:34 am »
Quote from: John Chapman

> Do they address the 75 uS filter that Allen Wright brought to our attention? Easy enough to do elsewhere, if not.

I am not familliar with that - you have me curious so if you have a link that'd be great.



Here's the link to the SP article: http://www.vacuumstate.com/phono_secrets.htm

As a rule Allen uses as few irons as possible in his design, so his phono stage isn't really suitable for the S&B RIAA modules.

That said, the S&B irons are excellent. They take some extra efforts to be fully broken in (just putting them in the system will take forever--at least that's what I found out with the TX-103 step up). But once broken in--simply superb!

John Chapman

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How well matched are the RIAA modules?
« Reply #4 on: 2 Jun 2006, 05:44 pm »
Hello!

Josh,

To use the RIAA's in a true differential ballanced design (one with mirror image signal paths) would take 2 sets of riaa's - one in the +leg and one in the -leg.  You'd need some way to derive a center point from the cartridge at the input stage - until they make a cartrige with a center tap on the coils...... I have a pair of tx103's here that were wound with a center point and I use them from time to time with my bal input haggerman trumpet - works great. As Bica I think suggests I'd tend to use Allen's design's as is since a lot of thought goes into them and I suspect mutations like strapping a RIAA in the middle would not be optimized.

Bica,

Thansk for the link! Good reading - as is the rest of Allen's stuff! You'd need to add that eq outside the RIAA but I will bounce it off S&B when we next talk and see if he has heard of it or considdered it.  Also you are right - especially in the case of the tx103 break-in outside the circuit is required. This makes sense when you think just how little signal comes from the cartridge....... This would be less of a factor with the RIAA which, like the tx102's,  will see a more respectable signal level in normal operation.


Thansk!

John

philipp

Re: How well matched are the RIAA modules?
« Reply #5 on: 16 Jul 2006, 06:24 am »
FYI, I found out there's three time constants:

t1=treble time constant, 75uS
t2=medium time constant, 318uS
t3=bass time constant, 3180uS

source http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/riaa.htm

Any feedback from S&B about this?

John Chapman

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Re: How well matched are the RIAA modules?
« Reply #6 on: 29 Jul 2006, 05:48 pm »
Hello!

Sorry for the very late reply. I was so busy before leaving for a short time away I had missed your recent post and an back now and catching up. I will be talking to S&B tomorrow and will do my best to get what info I can from him and post it here.

Thansk!

John