AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => RAW Acoustics => Topic started by: Bingenito on 15 Sep 2005, 04:00 pm
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I was interested in a small floor standing speaker that could visually fit into any room, provide fullrange sound when driven by a receiver or 100 watt integrated and cost less then $2000. The Raw HT3 caught my attention. After speaking with Al from Raw Acoustics for about 6 hours I ordered the Raw HT3. 3.5 weeks later the HT3s are in my room playing music.
The speakers arrived on schedule. The finish is beautiful, mildly tinted figured cherry. Al did a fantastic job on the veneer which matches the style cabinet perfectly.
Blah blah blah…so how do they sound?
As you can see from the photo these speakers are not hooked up to a receiver or integrated. Instead they are in my reference system so that I could evaluate them to their fullest potential. Speaking of potential these speakers sound way better then there size or asking price would lead you to believe.
Bass: Not sure what to say here because the bass coming from a single 7” woofer will leave you scratching your head. My room is large and heavily treated with bass traps and panels. The bass is extremely powerful, tight and clean down to 25Hz as advertised. I had to double check and make sure that the woofers from my other speakers were disconnected because it is hard to believe that this amount of bass is coming from such a small speaker that is 8.5ft out into the room and 3 ft from the side walls.
Midrange: More polite then the magnesium cones that I am used to. The last once of detail and transparency is not there but the midrange is excellent. If I had to compare the sound of the midrange to another driver I would say that it sounds more similar to a good Scan Speak paper/carbon mid. Not soft, not mushy, but it just does not sound like a metal cone driver because it is not a metal cone driver.
Treble: Outstanding!
Dispersion: Horizontal- right up there with the best I have heard. The 7” baffle and small 4.5” mid deliver here. Vertical is equal to better then most short ribbons.
Imagining and Soundstage: Again the narrow baffle, driver selection and the fact that the speakers are 1/3 into the room and 3 ft from the side walls just makes them disappear. I am sure it would get better still if there was not another pair of speakers behind them. But…I am not moving them because they are in the perfect spot and the Raw HT3’s will have their own room after I am done playing with them in my main room.
Value: At $1300 these speakers are an absolute bargain. In this system the speaker wire being used to drive them costs more then the speakers but the Raw HT3 is not outclassed. It fits right into the system and large room to deliver a large soundstage, outstanding frequency response and high SPL.
In Closing: If the appearance of this speaker leads you to believe that it would be great for a small room then you would be mistaken. They fill my 24x 14x 8 room with full range sound with no trouble at all.
As with any of the products I carry I evaluate them first to ensure that the product is a leader at it’s price point and delivers the goods. If it does not I will not offer the product. The Raw HT3 does not lead at it’s $1300 price point, it dominates.
That being said I plan to update my website shortly and begin to offer the Raw HT series speakers in complete form only.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/galleryimage.php/Raw-Acoustics/RAW_HT3_002.sized.jpg)
More photos at the link below: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/modules.php?set_albumName=Raw-Acoustics&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
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Nice review... and they sure look beautiful. How far do you think they need to be out into the room?
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Cool room, cool looking speakers, and good review. What's up with that PUG??? Did you photo shop that picture or is he really that big? I had a big Pommeranian a couple years ago. He was 18 lbs and freakishly large. Great dog but no one believed he was a Pom. How big is that Pug?
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Nice review... and they sure look beautiful. How far do you think they need to be out into the room?
Thank you!
Well I can tell you that the speakers don't appear to be very picky about placement. I have them 8.5 ft into the room because I can and my other speakers would be in the way if I had them less than 6 ft away from the front wall.
Taking a guess on min. distance from the wall I would say 12" As with any speaker getting them away from walls allows the speakers to disappear and the music to come out of thin air :notworthy:
I should also add to my comments above that the Raw HT3 has a high SAF. So far women seem to really like the look of this speaker. It has clean lines, is small (same width as most doorway molding - as a point of ref) and really blends into the room.
Take care
Bryan
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I should also add to my comments above that the Raw HT3 has a high SAF. So far women seem to really like the look of this speaker. quote]
I gotta ask...what kind of women are you bringing home...? :inlove:
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Cool room, cool looking speakers, and good review. What's up with that PUG??? Did you photo shop that picture or is he really that big? I had a big Pommeranian a couple years ago. He was 18 lbs and freakishly large. Great dog but no one believed he was a Pom. How big is that Pug?
Glad you like the room. BTW the blanket between the curtains is covering a 42" plasma. It stops flash bounce back.
As far as the pug goes....no PhotoShop there my friend. That is Piggy my audiophile best friend. As you can see he likes the Raw HT3 :wink: If he had thumbs he would stand next to the speakers and hold a beer like his idol Lonewolfny42. He is 35 lbs of solid muscle and has an 18" neck.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/galleryimage.php/Raw-Acoustics/RAW_HT3_010.sized.jpg)
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I gotta ask...what kind of women are you bringing home...?
LOL... Too funny. I could get into details but that is entirely another discussion :wink:
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Not soft, not mushy, but it just does not sound like a metal cone driver because it is not a metal cone driver.
Hi Bingenito,
In your opinion, which sounded better, metal or paper? I am looking into speakers with the AC ribbon driver and both RAW and Salk fit the needs. Even though both Raw and Salk use the same AC ribbon driver, Salk uses metal and the Raw uses paper for the mid/bass driver. As I can't demo both speakers at the same time, I am wondering can you share some of your personal experience with us.
Thanks,
Ken
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Ken
Jim Salk uses the Aurum Cantus G2.
Ours is a custom ribbon from Aurum Cantus.
Not the same at all for dispersion :mrgreen: Both vertical and horizontal.Are better on ours!
Just wanted to clear that up.
And Brian well I knew he would be in a state of shock, once they we going as most people are.Seems everyone looks around for that sub woofer that is still on :mrgreen:
Only to find out that is the low end of the HT3.
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Hi Al,
Is the HT3 tube friendly as well? Is 40w tube amp ok?
Thanks,
Ken
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Very nice! Thanks for the review Bryan. Cool pooch too!
I'm not surprised to hear about the good bass performance from a properly designed, vented enclosure featuring the Extremis 6.8 with its XBL^2 motor. Looks like an exceptional value for sure. Way to go Al !
:notworthy:
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Hi Bingenito,
In your opinion, which sounded better, metal or paper? I am looking into speakers with the AC ribbon driver and both RAW and Salk fit the needs. Even though both Raw and Salk use the same AC ribbon driver, Salk uses metal and the Raw uses paper for the mid/bass driver. As I can't demo both speakers at the same time, I am wondering can you share some of your personal experience with us.
Ken,
Not all paper drivers sound the same and this is also true of metal drivers. On top of that the crossover is critical.
I like both metal cone mids and paper. For me the practical application would define which mid is better.
Just so that I am not dodging the question the 2 speakers compared for midrange are Salk Sound HT3s $5200 (with Foil inductors, Sonicaps, Teflon bypass caps, Acoustic Zen internal wiring, and Black Hole 5) to Raw HT3s $1300 (Stock)
* I consider my gear to be first rate and the room is treated.
* I listen to highly detailed music.
In this scenario I prefer the midrange of the Salk HT3. As I stated in my earlier post the midrange of the Raw HT3 is clean, uncompressed, somewhat warm and lush more like a good Scan Speak mid. The Raw HT3 midrange is certainly not embarrassed by the Salk HT3 midrange. Some may prefer the Raw HT3, it is all about preferences. If we all liked the same gear there would not be 750+ cable manufactures.
Going forward I would prefer not to compare the 2 speakers because I have great respect for both designers and the products are some of the best I have heard. Additionally there are large price and size differences between the two speakers. As far as which speaker you should buy…
That all depends on the following (for starters):
1.) Budget
2.) Room size
3.) Associated gear
4.) Type of music you listen to
5.) Required SPL capabilities
On another note: A good friend of mine came by for a listen and did not believe me when I told him that all the sound was coming from the Raw HT3. I went through about 20 tracks from various reference CDs that I use and he was extremely impressed. Yes…even with the midrange :wink:
Dark room tubes glowing….Music playing at 90 db….not to shabby
Thank you
Bryan
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Ken
I would think your tubes would put out a nice level for a level you would be happy with.
We have the demo pair playing via some Antique sound labs 25watt mono tubes and the levels are fine.For demo these work just fine.Then we demo them via a Marantz 110watt reciever.
This is to demo the power they can handle.
The small tubes are used for a reason.
When people listen to them with that small set of Labs they know how the HT3 will sound on a larger set.
For those interested.
I will have a pair in the room at RMAF as my main show will be towards the RA8 with GR I will gladly demo the HT3 after hrs at Denver.
As well the pair from the show will be available for a in home demo if interested I will have info ready to post in a week about how to get the demo pair for a week.
The cost will be a full payment which will be refunded after you package them and send them to the next destination .Once they arrive and are opened by the next reviewer inspected for damage.
Payment will be refunded.
Shipping from you location to the next listener is you fee for a trial of the HT3.
Average shipping for the pair will be around $70.00
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>I had to double check and make sure that the woofers from my other speakers were disconnected because
Is this a common problem for the non-impaired?
Because you don't say "subwoofers," and I see a single run of speaker cables in the photos. How would the woofers from your other speakers still be connected?
I'm wondering if this isn't hyperbole which doesn't exactly make any sense, whether these speakers - which interest me - have a good low end or not.
I read a lot of hyperbole which doesn't exactly make any sense on the "internets," and it tends to make me skeptical about people's BS tendencies.
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(http://quicksitebuilder.cnet.com/wrnch2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/rawhtlineweb.jpg)
The HT3 is a 3way with a side firing woofer.
All ran with a single set of posts simple but effective :D
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Hi Bingenito,
Thanks for you honest input about both Salk and RAW and it is so true about audio that it is almost totally based on one's taste. I will keep that in mind whan I demo the Salk HT1.
Hi Al,
Thank you for your input as well regarding tube amp.
Ken
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You are welcome Ken.
I am one to demo the speakers with a small system for those to only llok at and say it was not the Electronics :mrgreen:
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Is this a common problem for the non-impaired?
Because you don't say "subwoofers," and I see a single run of speaker cables in the photos. How would the woofers from your other speakers still be connected?
I'm wondering if this isn't hyperbole which doesn't exactly make any sense, whether these speakers - which interest me - have a good low end or not.
I read a lot of hyperbole which doesn't exactly make any sense on the "internets," and it tends to make me skeptical about people's BS tendencies.
No nonsense or "subwoofers" here. The Raw HT3 is driven by a single run of Acoustic Zen. My other speakers are Tri-wired from 2 sets of posts per channel on my power amp.
I connected the Raw HT3 to my system as follows:
1.) Disconnected 1 run of cable from my other speakers
2.) Connected this cable to the Raw HT3
3.) Left the bi-wire Hologram II connected to the other speakers but disconnected the cable from the main posts on the power amp.
So when I heard the bass coming from the Raw HT3 I double checked to make sure that the Hologram II was actually not connected to the amp and driving the 10" woofers on my other speakers.
If anyone is in driving distance to Charlotte, NC PM me and we can make arrangements for a demo. Just bring your own music so that you have a good point of reference.
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Thank you for the additional information. I don't know how I missed the white cables on the floor in the photos. The scary thing is I was sober.
(That is _not_ a pug. It is _not_ hyperbole to say that is a nightclub bouncer.)
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Thank you for the additional information. I don't know how I missed the white cables on the floor in the photos. The scary thing is I was sober.
Anytime!
How could you overlook my glowing cables? :lol:
(That is _not_ a pug. It is _not_ hyperbole to say that is a nightclub bouncer.)
Don’t encourage Piggy (the pug) by building up his ego. He already thinks that he is a pit-bull which can get him into trouble because he is not. :D
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As far as the pug goes....no PhotoShop there my friend. That is Piggy my audiophile best friend. As you can see he likes the Raw HT3 If he had thumbs he would stand next to the speakers and hold a beer like his idol Lonewolfny42. He is 35 lbs of solid muscle and has an 18" neck.
.... :lol: ...but how tall is Piggy when he's sitting ?[/list:u]Send him over here, I'll teach him to hold a beer. :lol: [/list:u]Nice review Bryan, thanks !![/list:u]
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.... ...but how tall is Piggy when he's sitting ?
Send him over here, I'll teach him to hold a beer.
Only about 18"...Maybe he can be the official bookshelf speaker ruler? :lol:
On another note I have people coming by to hear some speakers tonight and Monday night. Hopefully they will post their impressions as well since mine could be considered biased going forward.
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Hmmmm, better be careful Bryan... The real Lonewolf doesn't post during the daylight hours, could be a scam of some sort :lol:
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Hmmmm, better be careful Bryan... The real Lonewolf doesn't post during the daylight hours, could be a scam of some sort :lol:
Ha-ha.... :lol: It's only possible due to my vacation...which is almost over... :cry: [/list:u]
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Hmmmm, better be careful Bryan... The real Lonewolf doesn't post during the daylight hours, could be a scam of some sort
I hear you...Lonewolfny42 scams are becoming increasingly popular for some reason :scratch: :lol:
A friend just came by that also owns a local audio business. We listened to all of his reference tracks and at least 15 of mine. Needless to say he was impressed by the sound coming from the Raw HT3. Hopefully he will post the details.
I will schedule a gathering so that people can come by and take a listen. If you are around the Charlotte, NC area and are interested in hearing the Raw HT3 shoot me a PM.
Thank you
Bryan
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This is my first posting. I am giving my honest opinion of my listening experience. Monday night I was listening to RAW HT3 speakers. All the equipment driving the speakers were high-end.
The speaker set-up wasn't perfect due to Salks HT3 speaks being already set-up in the room. I listened for over an hour. The ribbon tweeters sounded great. On and off axis response was good. It sounded the same as you moved around the room. Bass was very good, as was the midrange. Detail was very good. While my cd's sounded good, Bryan's cd's took the speakers to another level. The better the recording you use the more you realize these are very good speakers. The speakers are more forgiving on imperfect recordings. All in all I enjoyed the speakers a lot. Playing loud or low they sounded great. I liked the sound of the drivers so much that I am considering buying the apex.
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I look forward to hearing the speakers at RMAF.
Keep us posted if you hear or buy the Apex speakers.
George
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Grandpa Mike
This is my first posting. I am giving my honest opinion of my listening experience. Monday night I was listening to RAW HT3 speakers. All the equipment driving the speakers were high-end.
First welcome to Audio Circle :!:
Thank you for coming by to hear the Raw HT3. It was great meeting you and chatting about speaker designs. Nice assessment...quick and to the point :wink:
Take care
Bryan
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Hi Al,
One quick question as the HT3 looks very good, are there any upgrade options? (ie sonic cap on xo etc).
Thanks,
Ken
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One quick question as the HT3 looks very good, are there any upgrade options? (ie sonic cap on xo etc).
Ken,
I am not Al but I wanted to provide my 2 cents on the topic. On the Raw site you will see that the Ribbon comes with a bypass cap which is standard for the HT3. Solen Film and Foil bypass will be used going forward.
As for changing the actually caps in addition to bypass this would be fairly expensive because the cap values are large. Al can give you a guestimate on the actual cost.
My personal opinion only: Spending $300-$400 on a cap upgrade can-(maybe not) make sense when you are talking about a $4000+ speaker. On a $1300 speaker that could represent a 25-30% cost increase for a possible 2% improvement.
The Raw HT3 represents an amazing value as is and sounds terrific. I honestly would not change a thing.
Bryan
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Ken
The HT series comes with Film bypass on the tweeter networks standard also combined with Solen 400V caps.
As for a upgrade for the HT3 we do not offer them as the parts are really the best we could offer for the price even Bryan first asked about the caps.But once recieving a pair he since changed his outlook :mrgreen:
As well the values are not small values and the the cost to upgrade the tweeter network and mid network will be very close to $400.00 for Sonicap.
Are the upgrades needed we do not think so.
Not only for a price point but as well as performance we are getting with our selection of parts.
But someone always wants the caps as a upgrade option and we will not offer them as a standard option.
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Hi Bryan and Al,
Thanks for your input, yeah $400 upgrade on $1,300 speakers does not make sense. I like sonic caps (~$70 for both pair) as I did change some caps on my onix ref1 and the top end improves after the upgrade.
Thanks,
Ken
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Ken a single 100uf cap alone takes up a lot of cost.
We are looking down the road at options and I will make the info public about up grades in the following weeks :wink: