AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Vince in TX on 21 Jun 2021, 03:29 pm
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I supposed I should break out from the Home Theater thread to document my experience building these Servo Sub 4 kits. First, these are A LOT heavier than you might think. The cabinets alone without the sides and top are probably close to 30-40 pounds. I can hardly imagine building triples without having a helper.
Things I've learned so far (or painfully recalled after years of being dormant):
- Don't try to sand before the primer is fully cured
- Don't expect the paint to cure the same way when it's over 100 degrees outside with the heat index (something I used to know, but I haven't painted anything in probably a decade, so this was a painful reminder)
- The drivers have two sides, one with gold connectors marked "Driver Coil" and one marked "Servo Coil" - I never spun them around to notice two different connections and thought I had two Servo-only Drivers in one kit :duh:
Next step now that the bases are attached is to sand flush the outer surfaces of the inner cabinet with a portable belt sander. Then I'll mask off the mating surfaces for the side and top panels and finish priming the base and inner cabinet. I'm planning to pick up some walnut veneer for the outer panels, which will get done through a buddy of mine before they are attached. Meantime, here's the progress as of this morning:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224987)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224988)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=224989)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225684)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225833)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225840)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225834)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225835)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225836)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225837)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225839)
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Oh, how I envy all of you with your fancy, climate-controlled woodworking shops. And here I am just kicking it old-school with a rattle can in the Texas summer heat. :lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225918)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225919)
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Well there's no question that the climate control is nice, but you're getting it done and it's looking good!
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Those are looking great so far! :thumb:
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You know, I'm a fan of wet sanding, but this "sweat sanding" is not fun. :o
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225934)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225935)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225936)
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From the research I've done, I think I'm going to go with B-I-N Shellac-Based Primer fed through an HVLP gun. Looks like people have good results with it on MDF.
Comes in an aerosol spray as well:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-B-I-N-13-oz-White-Shellac-Based-Interior-Spot-Exterior-Primer-and-Sealer-Spray-01008/100398390
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From the research I've done, I think I'm going to go with B-I-N Shellac-Based Primer fed through an HVLP gun. Looks like people have good results with it on MDF.
Comes in an aerosol spray as well:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-B-I-N-13-oz-White-Shellac-Based-Interior-Spot-Exterior-Primer-and-Sealer-Spray-01008/100398390
Looks like good stuff. I guess I'm just being lazy because if I use black primer I don't have to use as many top coats to cover it up (in theory). Besides, most of these inner surfaces will be covered with no-res, so I wasn't planning on a show-quality finish. I'll save that for the outer cabinets. I just ordered the walnut veneer for them this morning. :thumb:
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Looks like good stuff. I guess I'm just being lazy because if I use black primer I don't have to use as many top coats to cover it up (in theory). Besides, most of these inner surfaces will be covered with no-res, so I wasn't planning on a show-quality finish. I'll save that for the outer cabinets. I just ordered the walnut veneer for them this morning. :thumb:
Understood! Unfortunately it looks like they don't make it in a black version... which kinda sucks, because I'm most likely going to finish my cabinets in a semi gloss black lol.
Awesome veneer choice!... I was contemplating veneer for a bit, but I'm still just thinking a full paint job on them. I have little experience with finish painting, but I have a steady hand, and I'll certainly be practicing beforehand! Most likely make the sub cabs first... Definitely less worried about replacing those panels from a crappy paint job than the Otica's :lol:
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Understood! Unfortunately it looks like they don't make it in a black version... which kinda sucks, because I'm most likely going to finish my cabinets in a semi gloss black lol.
Awesome veneer choice!... I was contemplating veneer for a bit, but I'm still just thinking a full paint job on them. I have little experience with finish painting, but I have a steady hand, and I'll certainly be practicing beforehand! Most likely make the sub cabs first... Definitely less worried about replacing those panels from a crappy paint job than the Otica's :lol:
You can add a universal dye like TransTints https://www.woodcraft.com/products/transtint-dyes-black# to shellac to make it any color you want.
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You can add a universal dye like TransTints https://www.woodcraft.com/products/transtint-dyes-black# to shellac to make it any color you want.
Awesome, thanks Mike! I'll most likely do just that! :thumb:
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Another option is Speedball Super Black India Ink https://www.amazon.com/Speedball-404696-Bottle-Height-Length/dp/B07BQK7Z37
This has shellac in it to help it dry which makes it compatible with tinted shellac. I have used the two in combination many times. It is how I got the black on the base of my servo subs
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225939)
Use two to three coats of the Speedball to dye and seal the MDF then use the tinted shellac to get depth and shine. The tinted shellac works best when used as a 1 pound cut or less and applied rubbed on like French polish. If the shellac product you buy is a 2 pound cut, dilute it with denatured alcohol in a 1:1 ratio.
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Use two to three coats of the Speedball to dye and seal the MDF then use the tinted shellac to get depth and shine. The tinted shellac works best when used as a 1 pound cut or less and applied rubbed on like French polish. If the shellac product you buy is a 2 pound cut, dilute it with denatured alcohol in a 1:1 ratio.
Those are beautiful. And that idea sounds much better than the semi-gloss enamel rattle cans I just purchased to finish the bases. My goal is to match the X-Static / X-Voce speakers, and they look to be similarly done to what I'm planning. Maybe in the future I'll get a wild hair and refinish the X-speakers. Since my application is in the front of a theater room, the less reflected light, the better.
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I supposed I should break out from the Home Theater thread to document my experience building these Servo Sub 4 kits. First, these are A LOT heavier than you might think. The cabinets alone without the sides and top are probably close to 30-40 pounds. I can hardly imagine building triples without having a helper.
Things I've learned so far (or painfully recalled after years of being dormant):
- Don't try to sand before the primer is fully cured
- Don't expect the paint to cure the same way when it's over 100 degrees outside with the heat index (something I used to know, but I haven't painted anything in probably a decade, so this was a painful reminder)
- The drivers have two sides, one with gold connectors marked "Driver Coil" and one marked "Servo Coil" - I never spun them around to notice two different connections and thought I had two Servo-only Drivers in one kit :duh:
Next step now that the bases are attached is to sand flush the outer surfaces of the inner cabinet with a portable belt sander. Then I'll mask off the mating surfaces for the side and top panels and finish priming the base and inner cabinet. I'm planning to pick up some walnut veneer for the outer panels, which will get done through a buddy of mine before they are attached. Meantime, here's the progress as of this morning:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=225684)
They look great. I assume they are Danny's CNC kit?
I'd be interested in knowing how well they sound and integrate with the X-Voce / X-Statik units. I've just place the order for my X-Voce/X-Statik kits and am aiming for a similar set-up .... 'eventually'.
Be glad you are in the middle of summer ... its cold and mostly wet down here, at this time of the year.
D
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They look great. I assume they are Danny's CNC kit?
I'd be interested in knowing how well they sound and integrate with the X-Voce / X-Statik units. I've just place the order for my X-Voce/X-Statik kits and am aiming for a similar set-up .... 'eventually'.
Be glad you are in the middle of summer ... its cold and mostly wet down here, at this time of the year.
D
I'd take some cold and wet right about now. And, thanks! Yes, these are Killian's flat packs through Danny's site. I tried to add a second coat of primer today, and it was so hot that the paint literally dried before it hit the cabinet and turned into black dust. So I'll probably just hit what's on it with some 2000 grit and be done with the painting for now. I'll start the electronics rough-in tomorrow. Meantime, I'm trying to debug a wiring issue. All 11 speakers worked great, but the sealed subs were misbehaving during Audyssey calibration. I ran RG6 for the LFE channels, and the RG6 to RCA compression plugs I got apparently aren't worth a crap and would only intermittently connect. I'm using a different connection method (F-connector on the RG6, then F connector to RCA adapter) with parts hopefully arriving tomorrow.
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Not much happening lately since I'm still waiting on no-res to show up, but at least they have their feet now. I also picked up the veneer last week, so that will get started on soon as well.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=226548)
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Everything seems to be moving in slow motion these days, including the shop I had do the veneer. But stuff is finally starting to show up again. Unfortunately, they missed the memo about not putting veneer on the short edges of the side pieces. But, no worries. It was nothing a flush bit on a router couldn't handle. :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227817)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227818)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227819)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227820)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227821)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=227822)
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Oh snap, looking good!
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Wow!
Gorgeous work…
But….
Aren’t the drivers supposed to be facing opposite directions? Not, both same direction.
The picture on the product page has them that way… & I thought that was part of the open baffle design…
But, never built one… never seen one & certainly never heard one.
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Those look great. You are going to really enjoy them.
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Wow!
Gorgeous work…
But….
Aren’t the drivers supposed to be facing opposite directions? Not, both same direction.
The picture on the product page has them that way… & I thought that was part of the open baffle design…
But, never built one… never seen one & certainly never heard one.
They can be set up either way - either all facing forward or alternating. Cabinets are slightly different depending on which option you choose.
Great job vince!
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They can be set up either way - either all facing forward or alternating. Cabinets are slightly different depending on which option you choose.
Great job vince!
Thanks! Yes, I talked to Danny, and he said there wasn't really any difference with the sound between front/rear and front/front facing. And I was glad because I wanted to leave them open so you could see the drivers just like with my X-Static and X-Voce.
Amp boxes in da house! :icon_lol: That varnish makes a huge difference in the color of the wood.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228006)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228007)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228008)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228009)
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I had to expand the production line a bit. Wife won't be pleased. Fortunately she doesn't spend much time up in this room.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228013)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228014)
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Oh, side note, in case anyone is curious, this is the veneer I used: https://www.homedepot.com/p/PureEdge-48-in-x-96-in-Walnut-Real-Wood-Veneer-with-10-mil-Paperback-903728/312591181
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Final phase - Adding No-res and possibly a front cover (debating). Other than that, done! :thumb:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228193)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228194)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228196)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228195)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228197)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228198)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228199)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228200)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228201)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228202)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228203)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228204)
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A personal note about no-res, this stuff is a lot harder to cut than I thought. Make sure you have plenty of sharp blades. You can tell when they're getting dull because they won't cut all the way through (hence some of the rough edges on the back of the cabinet).
Two sheets of no-res per cabinet confirmed. For each cabinet, I made four 5" strips out of each sheet, one of which I cut along the long edge and the other on the short edge. Worked perfectly with enough scrap to use towards the A/V-1RS speakers even though I have another sheet for those. I used the outer finished edges for the front and the inner strips for the back.
MEASURE TWICE, CUT ONCE! There isn't much room for mistakes.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228253)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228254)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228255)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228257)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228256)
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Looking sharp!
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Really nice Vince - it won't be long now until you hear them!
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Looking sharp!
I see what you did there! :D
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Oh, side note, in case anyone is curious, this is the veneer I used: https://www.homedepot.com/p/PureEdge-48-in-x-96-in-Walnut-Real-Wood-Veneer-with-10-mil-Paperback-903728/312591181
Veneer you applied looks great. Out of curiosity how many sheets did you order to cover the cabinets and amp boxes?
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Looking real good Vince!
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Thanks for the compliments, everyone. It was a long, arduous journey (mainly from materials delays and extreme heat), but they're confirmed operational after debugging one of the amps (turned out I had reversed the grounds on one of the connectors). Of course, now I'm dealing with the dreaded hum, which I'll talk about in a separate thread. I've isolated that problem to having the subs and the A/V equipment on different electrical circuits (ground loop issues).
Veneer you applied looks great. Out of curiosity how many sheets did you order to cover the cabinets and amp boxes?
It only took one 48"x96" sheet plus the edge veneer. I wish I can say I applied it personally. I had a professional cabinet guy do it for me, and it was well worth it. :thumb:
- https://www.homedepot.com/p/PureEdge-48-in-x-96-in-Walnut-Real-Wood-Veneer-with-10-mil-Paperback-903728/312591181
- https://www.homedepot.com/p/PureEdge-7-8-in-x-25-ft-Walnut-Real-Wood-Veneer-Edgebanding-with-Hot-Melt-Adhesive-901816/310448529
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What a nice project …. and good thinking about when to hire an expert :thumb: It’s a beautiful result
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Beautiful work, Vince. Inspirational for all of us. I love how you have finished the subs. :thumb:
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What a nice project …. and good thinking about when to hire an expert :thumb: It’s a beautiful result
Beautiful work, Vince. Inspirational for all of us. I love how you have finished the subs. :thumb:
Thank you! :thumb:
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Man, those look really good.
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Man, those look really good.
Thanks! They sound really good, too! 😊
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Nothing amateur about this build, looks great Vince!
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Nothing amateur about this build, looks great Vince!
Thanks, Vince! And that's spooky because I'm also "Vince T.". It's like I'm talking to myself. :lol:
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Vince, your build turned out great! The combination of black and walnut veneer really looks fantastic!
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Vince, your build turned out great! The combination of black and walnut veneer really looks fantastic!
Thanks! It was a lot of work (and time consuming), but well worth it. :thumb:
And I just realized I never posted the picture of them in their final resting place:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230224)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=230110)
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Hi Vince,
Great build.
How are they performing for HT?
Lou.
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Hi Vince,
Great build.
How are they performing for HT?
Lou.
Phenomenal! And thanks! I'm still breaking in the surround speakers (they were a bit harsh), but overall the bass is incredible.
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Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I'm here at AudioCircle for the express purpose of not screwing up my own Servo Sub #4 build. Information here is *extremely* useful!
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Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I'm here at AudioCircle for the express purpose of not screwing up my own Servo Sub #4 build. Information here is *extremely* useful!
You are very welcome. And good luck in your build! :thumb:
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Another option is Speedball Super Black India Ink https://www.amazon.com/Speedball-404696-Bottle-Height-Length/dp/B07BQK7Z37
This has shellac in it to help it dry which makes it compatible with tinted shellac. I have used the two in combination many times. It is how I got the black on the base of my servo subs
Use two to three coats of the Speedball to dye and seal the MDF then use the tinted shellac to get depth and shine. The tinted shellac works best when used as a 1 pound cut or less and applied rubbed on like French polish. If the shellac product you buy is a 2 pound cut, dilute it with denatured alcohol in a 1:1 ratio.
Hi @mlundy57,
Did you apply the India ink onto raw MDF or did you apply something onto the MDF before the India ink? Did you sand after applying India ink and before applying the shellac?
And thanks to @VinceinTX for this amazing thread!
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Hi @mlundy57,
Did you apply the India ink onto raw MDF or did you apply something onto the MDF before the India ink? Did you sand after applying India ink and before applying the shellac?
And thanks to @VinceinTX for this amazing thread!
Apply to the raw MDF after sanding raw edges up to 320 or 400. Three coats. You can lightly scuff sand if the surface isn’t smooth.
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Got it thanks! Will try it on the Rythmik amp boxes as I’ve a huge bottle of Super Black India Ink leftover from a Bottlehead project. I really liked the outcome on alder wood but was concerned the water content in the ink might be problematic on MDF:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=262569)
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Thanks for sharing. Great detail.