AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => AV123 => Topic started by: HAL on 21 Jan 2007, 03:16 pm
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Just posting that the AV123 Forum at their website is down. The rest of the website is working.
Not sure if anyone else can get to the Forum. :scratch:
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They've been bombarded by spammers lately. Maybe that has something to do with it. They were also preparing a new version of the whole site. I was at the HEMI GTG in Michigan yesterday and there was no mention of it (MLS was there). Tom
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They've been bombarded by spammers lately. Maybe that has something to do with it. They were also preparing a new version of the whole site. I was at the HEMI GTG in Michigan yesterday and there was no mention of it (MLS was there). Tom
How was the GTG at Pete's place?
I saw the new REF 200 center channel and it is an absolute monster!!!
George
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I was trying to look at the GTG thread to see what happend, starting last evening. That was why I posted, since I had not read a more recent post about a website update.
I am sure they will get it running soon.
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It was a great time - I'm guessing 50+ people. Pete has beautiful home and a really nice pair of custom built rooms (built himself) and all top rate gear. He and Brenda were extra-ordinarily gracious hosts.
The new BMF sub and the new Ref 200 center were KILLER!!!! You can't even believe how big both of them are. I sat next to the BMF (like 2') during the DD demo sequence and I'm certain it knocked a few of my screws loose. I never thought I really needed :green: a center until I heard this one (I use phantom). Talk about impact. The top mounted upward firing tweeter really works great with the projection screen.
MLS gave away about $10k worth of stuff too. Unfortunately I didn't get picked :( but there were some very happy winners.
Tom
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I can't even access the regular av123 website now.
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Yep - unavailable. I'm guessing one of two things - site problems or the big site upgrade they've been talking about for a while. Since they didn't give any warnings about outages, I'm betting on unplanned problems.
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The forum has been getting invaded regularly by porn spammers. Hopefully they are doing what it takes to remedy the problem so we don't have to keep our kids away when viewing the forum. It would be nice to get some more feedback on the GTG, but that's how things go. You can't keep a good crew down.
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It looks like the forum is back up, but the regular site isn't. Here's a link to pictures from the Detroit GTG that BRM just posted: http://alhull.com/hemi2007sanctum/index.htm
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Brad,
Thanks for the link.
Looks like they all had fun. :D
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Our main site and our forum are hosted by different companies but both went down this weekend in unreleated events. The main site DNS expired and the hosting company did not renew it quickly. All fixed.
For the forum, we are moving to a new server and new software. The data center misunderstood our instructions and took the forum offline completely. We had them all killed :D
Everything should be back up and running now. The new forum will be here soon with the new main web site a bit after that.
Thanks all,
Sean
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The AV123 forum is down. I think they are upgrading the website! :D
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We are upgrading the forum server and software :)
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We are upgrading the forum server and software :)
Wow.....you must be having problems?
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It was up and running for a while, but I can't seem to get to it again. I'm sure it will be back up shortly.
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Maybe they're using a stenographer to transfer the database. :lol:
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Maybe they're using a stenographer to transfer the database. :lol:
konut, are you back in Washington?
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It works here at work, but not at home. It's probably a matter of my ISP needing to expire their DNS cache.
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Maybe they're using a stenographer to transfer the database. :lol:
konut, are you back in Washington?
Yeah, I'm in Bellingham now.
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Yeah, I'm in Bellingham now.
Cool town! Home town of Death Cab for Cutie. Hop skip a jump from the land of the Canucks.
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It works here at work, but not at home. It's probably a matter of my ISP needing to expire their DNS cache.
That was my guess too. It sure took a long time though. It worked this morning.
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What gave you that impression? No problems here... :)
Sean
We are upgrading the forum server and software :)
Wow.....you must be having problems?
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I was just reading a thread on the AV123 forum about a new speaker idea that Mark scribbled on a napkin, but when I tried to go back to the forum, I got taken to a website for Threshold Computer Solutions.
I can't even get back to the forum through the main AV123 site.
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Yes, it is complicated :( Working on it now...
Sean
I was just reading a thread on the AV123 forum about a new speaker idea that Mark scribbled on a napkin, but when I tried to go back to the forum, I got taken to a website for Threshold Computer Solutions.
I can't even get back to the forum through the main AV123 site.
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It is fixed...
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Good Work! :thumb:
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It is fixed...
I still have the problem of redirect to Threshold this morning (at work)
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Just got the redirect.... :(
Shaun
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It is fixed...
Same here....... :(
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I had to change the IP and DNS again... it should be all cleared up by now or shortly if your ISP has not updated DNS since midnight.
Sorry for the trouble. I've got lots o' killin to do for all this BS... (BTW none of it was the fault of our hosting company, Threshold)
Sean
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Works ok now...
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Still not able to access the forums here. Tried last night at work (either Cableone or Frontier ISP) and here at home (Cableone ISP) and just get the Threshold Computer Solutions webpage.
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That means your ISP has not updated their DNS yet today... unfortunately there is nothing you can do except to wait for them to do it.
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Still not able to access the forums here. Tried last night at work (either Cableone or Frontier ISP) and here at home (Cableone ISP) and just get the Threshold Computer Solutions webpage.
I got the opposite. I was able to access the forum last night without problem but now I get the Threshold Computer Solutions webpage. :lol:
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Still not able to access the forums here. Tried last night at work (either Cableone or Frontier ISP) and here at home (Cableone ISP) and just get the Threshold Computer Solutions webpage.
I got the opposite. I was able to access the forum last night without problem but now I get the Threshold Computer Solutions webpage. :lol:
I should clarify. I could access the forums last night around 10pm mountain standard time. Then I went into work (working nights) and could not access the forums from work, and have not been able to access them since. SO I've been getting the Threshold redirect page since some time after 10pm MST last night either from work or from home. I am certain Sean is right and my ISP simply has not refreshed the DNS.
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That makes sense as the IP and DNS was updated at midnight...
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Or, your new DNS entry was somewhat incomplete. http://www.av123forum.com/ resolves correctly. However http://av123forum.com/ does not.
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Or, your new DNS entry was somewhat incomplete. http://www.av123forum.com/ resolves correctly. However http://av123forum.com/ does not.
Nope, already tried every possible permutation, and they all bring up Threshold rather than the forums. It's ISP/DNS-related. I'll just have to wait for my ISP to refresh DNS later tonight.
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I'm Moody and Blue, because I'm on the Threshold of a Dream . . .
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It's accessible for me now from both home and work.
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I still can't get it on Mozilla. I just tried IE and no issues getting it.
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I still can't get it on Mozilla. I just tried IE and no issues getting it.
Did you try clearing your browser's cache? I am running Mozilla Firefox (on linux at home) and Firefox on XP here at work and both are working fine.
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There is a problem with the new server. We hope to have it resolved soon. Thank you for your patience!
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Fixed. sorry about the inconvenience. I can't beleive i have to go in a clean up after someone who makes $150 an hour and is supposed to be an expert... :roll:
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Fixed. sorry about the inconvenience. I can't beleive i have to go in a clean up after someone who makes $150 an hour and is supposed to be an expert... :roll:
Oh Sean, being in IT, that's the story of my life... I love it. Hang in there! Tom
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;) I used to be a sys admin in a previous life so I know how it goes...
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Can anyone see the AV123 Forum today? :?:
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No luck here either. It seems to be really screwed today.
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Aren't they doing a website and facility move this weekend?
I think they said they hoped to have both done by April 2nd or 4th.
George
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Right now, something 'fishy' seems to be up. The metadata is trying to direct to a www. free 20 dot com whatever that is and an "adult" site as well.... When I tried to load the site, the windows installer popped up to install microsoft word. Hang on..and lets see what the powers that be says...but I suppose a hack has happened myself.
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Well... it looks like something pretty bad has taken place. :( We have staff working on this now...
I'm pretty upset that this is the 2nd time this year for this - and I'm doing something about it. Please forgive me for saying this - but our success has not gone unnoticed and at times I get some pretty angry mail about all sorts of stuff...
I'm going to be working the phones on Monday in our new digs and talking to a few of the experts out there that are offering their advice, etc. I'm not taking this quietly this time...
Success has it's downsides at times - and this is one of them...
Most humbly...
mls
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Glad to see you are on it, Mark. It looks pretty nasty - I was afraid with the move and all that you guys might not be aware until tomorrow. Should have remembered it takes a lot more than a move to keep you off the forums. Good luck with getting it fixed and I wish nothing but nasty things to whatever scumbags did it.
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Glad I am not the only one! This is the first time with my new computer that any popups got through, and was trying to get to the forum.
Clicked the button to get to the forum and a pic of a half naked chick popped up, and I got one of those messages "porn found on your harddrive"
Then a bunch of pop ups for hard drive cleaners, and spam protectors, and all kinds of crazy stuff.
Strange
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We are working hard to get it fixed...
I received the same SPAM garbage also... first time I had ever seen a pop up on my mac... :x
More later...
Best...
mls
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It seems to be able to push pop-ups even through Firefox, which is impressive (in a bad way).
Glad to know you guys are on it though Mark.
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It seems to be able to push pop-ups even through Firefox, which is impressive (in a bad way).
Glad to know you guys are on it though Mark.
We are back on line...
We were in fact DIRECTLY TARGETED - this has been confirmed...
Sadly...
mls
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That's pretty scary, that it would break through FF and even happen on a mac too, which means they must know what they're doing. I don't get this whole "targeting success" thing. What are we coming to. Glad to hear you're back in action though, especially with the joy of Cali startup happening. Tom
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Back now!
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Is the forum offline again? I can't get to it from any of my available connections and I had a few friends try as well. All with no success. :scratch:
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The data center just lost its outbound connection... there are about 1000 servers offline right now :o
They expect connectivity to be restored any moment now...
Sean
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The data center just lost its outbound connection... there are about 1000 servers offline right now :o
I know I don't want their job right now. :lol:
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The data center just lost its outbound connection... there are about 1000 servers offline right now :o
They expect connectivity to be restored any moment now...
It's been a couple of hours - must be some significant problems (i.e. not just a router reboot or config change).
I'd hate to work for your hosting company's support desk right now. :)
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It is definetly more than a router reboot... with 1000 servers off line, it is a big deal :) They said they would be up 'real soon now' - heh. I too am glad I do not work there at the moment!
Sean
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Man, it's down again. WWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:
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AV123 is down. Is Onix putting up a new website?
Thanks :)
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yes. and about a week overdue but you know how those things go :duh:
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Wow fancy new AV123 site.
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The forum just became unusably slow for me. It was fine earlier today, but now it barely loads a little bit after a minute.
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Seems OK for me; was just there...
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Works fine for me now, but it was dog slow for a while.
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I like the look of it and the info is more plentiful! :thumb:
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Looks like the site is having problems again. :(
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Hacked again?
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Sean said they were moving AV123 website to a new server this weekend.
Looks like the Skiing Ninja site is also moving from the page showing.
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Sean said they were moving AV123 website to a new server this weekend.
Looks like the Skiing Ninja site is also moving from the page showing.
Missed that. Thanks
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Ya... new faster server, more RAM, dual core processor... good stuff. Back up shortly :)
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Ya... new faster server, more RAM, dual core processor... good stuff. Back up shortly :)
You couldn't afford the Quad Core model? :icon_twisted:
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not needed
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go with the quad core :D
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The server is already installed damnit. :)
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Then boot it up! :green:
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Sean
I dont know about everyone else, but getting onto the forum is totally hit and miss the last 2 days. I recieve email notification about a tread and try to login but only get a server page.
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This relates to your ISP and DNS refresh. It is not something we can control - it is on your providers end. Give it another few hours or a day and it will clear up.
Thanks.
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Did the forum finally blow up from all the whining and complaining? I can't get to it today. Don't know what to do with myself.....
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Did the forum finally blow up from all the whining and complaining? I can't get to it today. Don't know what to do with myself.....
Me too. I kinda miss you guys and gals
todd
:scratch:
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I'm getting in just fine. :green: Maybe you guys finally got the cooties. :thumbdown:
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Somehow I knew that there may be a few of the faithful here , feeling a bit discombobulated . :P
8) What are we going to do with ourselves ?
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Works fine here...
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Maybe we were banned . :P
Must be a server issue ?
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Just tried to reply to a thread. It IS acting wonky. Maybe I'm catching the cooties. :oops:
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Works fine here...
What are you guys doing over here, if it works fine?
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Maybe we were banned . :P
Ha- love it! Nice one.
todd :lol:
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Yeah, flaky now...
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"The Letter" was posted and it took the site down. :rotflmao:
either that or "The Letter" was a codename for blowing up the forum. :nono:
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Maybe just a "time-out" before the letter is posted, and a reminder that the forum belongs to av123?
More likely: just an unexpected technical glitch!
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Maybe too many F5's and/or traffic killed it... Never saw it post myself.
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Okay whats the gist of "the letter"? :scratch:
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More likely: just an unexpected technical glitch!
that is most likely what it is but it's fun to speculate in a dumb manner. :)
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More likely: just an unexpected technical glitch!
that is most likely what it is but it's fun to speculate in a dumb manner. :)
Just an update from Mark with product updates, state of business, etc...
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:thumb: All is well . I was just able to log on .
The earth is NOT spiraling out of control towards the Sun. :)
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It's alive... It's ALIVE.... IT'S ALIVE!
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It's alive... It's ALIVE.... IT'S ALIVE!
Whoopie, [size=09pt]whoopie,[/size] [size=08pt]whoopie,[/size] [size=07pt]whoopie,[/size] [size=06pt]whoopie[/size] :lol:
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And back down again....
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Deja vu means they changed something in the Matrix :o
todd
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I thought I was being banned...... :lol:
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Today's outage seems to be lasting a while.
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I thought I was being banned...... :lol:
You didn't get the memo? :D
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:bawl: Denied !!.... Again. :wink:
While we're here ..... Someone tell me which tube pre I should go with.
-remote is cool (the more functional the better)
-HT pass thru ( with unit off would be killer)
-phono included (not required but would be nice)
-balanced ins/outs desired but not a deal breaker
-speakers will be focus line source ls6's. -see avatar-
-analog sources are a music hall cd25.2 and mmf-5.1 TT. upgraded later as "needed"
-SS amps
-looking for that organic , listenable , and harmonically pleasing tube goodness
without losing detail and transparency.
Currently in the research phase, I've been looking at the likes of:
Bat Cary Dodd Modwright ARC Aesthetix Mcintosh VAC .
Price ~ 1500 - 3000 . Wide range ? Yes . :P But I would be willing to spend a bit more if justified.
And would rather not take a trip on the audition/sell merry-go-round. Or at least minimize it.
Bonk
-- yes I know this is in the wrong forum, but there may be a "finders fee" if your suggestion pans out.
Could be something as nice as a mismatched pair of tube socks( slightly worn) or 8-track head cleaner . :thumb:
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Today's outage seems to be lasting a while.
The more things change, the more they stay the same... :lol:
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Bonk,
The Dodd Audio Battery Preamp does not have an internal phono stage. Gary does make an external phono preamp.
It would be interesting to hear the the Dodd against the Mod Wright and the AVA tube preamps. :)
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When I try going to the website now, get a very strange error. Like the website is gone. :scratch:
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+1
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AV123 Forum is down.
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Hi,
This is just a note to let all of you know that the AV123 Forum and e-mail system is down due to a technical problem at our hosting company.
Our phones are working, and we are happy to talk with you. You can reach us at 877-543-7500, or in Colorado at 303-543-7500.
We hope to be back to normal later today.
Thank you!
__________________
Jess Quintana
AV123 Representative
Parker, Colorado.
This just in from Jess Q. posted at AVS forums .
Thanks Hal. I'm sure I will be thrilled with whatever I decide on.
Would love to give the Modwright 36.5 a whirl, but a bit out of range right now.The MW 9.0se , dodd battery , and a few of the ARC's have caught my eye .
Eventually I'll just have to stop researching/reading and jump in. :P
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Hey Bonk,
I had Gary Dodd build me out a couple of his battery powered tube pre-amps for use at RMAF. To make a long story short, the new amps didn't get finished in time so we took my personal system to use with the LS-9's in the big ball room.
I used one of the pre-amps in the system we set up at the Marriott. I then sold it to HAL after the show.
The other one is assembled all but the wood trim pieces. I could make you a really good deal on it and you could choose your own wood type if you want. Just let me know if you are interested.
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Screenshot of what I get when trying to reach av123forum:
http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=av123snapshot1it1.png (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=av123snapshot1it1.png)
Prior to this, it would just time out. Looks like Mark/AV123 might have been hacked (DDoS, etc) again.
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Hey Danny,
I'll shoot you an email. :thumb:
Bonk
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I don't know the exact issue but I know for sure that the main and backup servers both went offline.
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Must be serious. Now there's a default Joomla page up for the main site.
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I'm not in IT, but i'd try plugging the server back in :duh:
todd
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There was a significant hardware failure of main and backup systems. I've got my domains back already and I'm uploading files now but AV123 will take longer as they had slightly more data :)
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There was a significant hardware failure of main and backup systems. I've got my domains back already and I'm uploading files now but AV123 will take longer as they had slightly more data :)
Well, you could just not load all of the "bitching and groaning" posts - that would make the load time about 50% faster. :thumb:
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There was a significant hardware failure of main and backup systems. I've got my domains back already and I'm uploading files now but AV123 will take longer as they had slightly more data :)
Time to find a new provider... :nono:
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Well, you could just not load all of the "bitching and groaning" posts - that would make the load time about 50% faster. :thumb:
And if you only load the information on products that are actually available to ship today, that could knock off another 25% easy... :lol:
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Well, you could just not load all of the "bitching and groaning" posts - that would make the load time about 50% faster. :thumb:
And if you only load the information on products that are actually available to ship today, that could knock off another 25% easy... :lol:
Dayum, I felt the sizzle of that reply. :duh:
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There was a significant hardware failure of main and backup systems. I've got my domains back already and I'm uploading files now but AV123 will take longer as they had slightly more data :)
Time to find a new provider... :nono:
I would second the new provider concept - an ID company with no internet is pretty much DEAD.
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Now, now - I did use a happy, laughing emoticon to try and convey the "tongue-in-cheekiness" of my reply. I'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me (maybe just a playful nip) but that was too easy a shot...
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I would second the new provider concept - an ID company with no internet is pretty much DEAD.
Which is why I have always been confused that AV123 doesn't have an IT guru. Someone to chase down the voicemail and e-mail bugs and keep things up and running. :scratch:
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Maybe this is how Mark is going to take back control of the forum!
:D
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At least there's a proper "out of order" page up now.
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This is not the fault of the provider so those of you using a jump to conclusion mat, please stop :D
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Just curious I guess - who's at fault?
And is the provider completely off the hook regarding redundancy, backup(s), etc.?
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This is not the fault of the provider so those of you using a jump to conclusion mat, please stop :D
LMAO at that one :rotflmao:
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When it rains it pours...... :wink:
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Not trying to 'jump to conclusions' here, but perhaps this is a mandated 'cool down' period for the forum. Things sure seem to have just gone off the rails over at AV123.
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Not trying to 'jump to conclusions' here, but perhaps this is a mandated 'cool down' period for the forum. Things sure seem to have just gone off the rails over at AV123.
If AV123 were going to do that, I doubt they'd take down anything more than the forum. Right now basically everything is down.
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Not trying to 'jump to conclusions' here, but perhaps this is a mandated 'cool down' period for the forum. Things sure seem to have just gone off the rails over at AV123.
If AV123 were going to do that, I doubt they'd take down anything more than the forum. Right now basically everything is down.
Good point.... why take down the sales & support parts. Prob just HW issues.
I still like the peace and quiet for a change. :thumb:
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Not trying to 'jump to conclusions' here, but perhaps this is a mandated 'cool down' period for the forum. Things sure seem to have just gone off the rails over at AV123.
Naw, I hardly doubt it. The AVSForum will always hemorrhage posters who will end up at AV123 to display their displeasure. :icon_twisted:
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This is not the fault of the provider so those of you using a jump to conclusion mat, please stop :D
How could it NOT be the providers fault? (jumping up and down on that conclusion mat!!!)
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Just curious I guess - who's at fault?
Well . . . conspiracy theorists might point to Hectic1 to avoid having to answer questions about ND's oh-so embarrassing loss to Syracuse, though others of that ilk might point to Cloudstrife to avoid answering questions about how LSU got beat by Ole Miss. :) Not that the convo's in the College FB thread ever get spirited enough that somebody might hack the system to avoid that kind of heat . . . :roll:
Anywhoo . . . hope it comes back soon. Want to hear the Big 12 defenders 'splain how the top two teams are able to engage in the kind of blowout I'm watching. This SEC bigot thinks it's just reinforcement of how over-rated the Big 12 is as a conference that has exciting offense made more potent by appearance by a total lack of quality defense.
Hope AV123 gets their website sorted out soon.
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Please the top 4 teams in the Big 12 south roll the whole SEC. Florida on the other hand is the best team in the country and will win the MNC. We are likely to see Florida blow out Alabama the same way.
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Temp Forum is up and running at: http://netlowdown.com/av123forum
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Now the temp forum is down? Unbelieveable...
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What an ugly mess, especially for an ID company...
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Now the temp forum is down? Unbelieveable...
No when you think about the past 5 days its actually quite believable :green:
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What an ugly mess, especially for an ID company...
Should we even care at this point?
A mess indeed...
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What an ugly mess, especially for an ID company...
Would, at least, be more bearable if someone would answer the phones. No REAL updates for MONTHS on LS9 and several weeks on the x-amps despite sooooo... many promises.
Depressing.
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Which is why I have always been confused that AV123 doesn't have an IT guru. Someone to chase down the voicemail and e-mail bugs and keep things up and running. :scratch:
[/quote]
Unfortunately, as you know, that would be somewhat counter-intuitive as to how Mark does business. Name me another company that has seen 75% growth (maybe I am actually understating that figure?) over the last 2 years and yet seems to view adding staff as a secondary concern. (Almost) all of us love Mark and wish av123 continued success, but it's unbelievable on how they keep dropping the ball on the lowest hanging fruit. In this economy (going back about 6 months to present), finding qualified people should not be THAT difficult.
Instead let's just keep making more false promises about delivery dates + conjecture about more "gee-whiz" product lines + announce new holiday sales (and daily specials) with attendant pre-orders while people are still waiting for orders placed 6, 12, 18 months ago + defer concrete, concise updates in lieu of an omnibus "tell-all" letter that needs to be repeatedly reworked in order to set just the right tone and background = a frickin' train wreck of a soap opera.
Sorry, for beating the horse deader.....AND restating the obvious.
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http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347
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There was a guy named Stevo who got banned from AV123 who always called it like he saw it. He had AV123 pegged from the beginning. A Soap Opera indeed!
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Anyone who just read MLS' thread at Tweak City should come away with the same thoughts I just did. If he can't run AV123 right, how is he going to help Tweak City now. The man is full of promises. Maybe his partners at AV123 finally had enough of him. Stay tuned as..............The Soap Opera continues.
Should be fun to watch at least......the new promises anyway. And where's that second letter. It would be nice to see that second letter before he makes any new announcements. The train wreck continues.........
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Anyone who just read MLS' thread at Tweak City should come away with the same thoughts I just did. If he can't run AV123 right, how is he going to help Tweak City now. The man is full of promises. Maybe his partners at AV123 finally had enough of him. Stay tuned as..............The Soap Opera continues.
Should be fun to watch at least......the new promises anyway. And where's that second letter. It would be nice to see that second letter before he makes any new announcements. The train wreck continues.........
I hate to say it (and, boy, have I kept my mouth tightly shut for about a year now), but the TONE DEAF nature of what Mark has been spinning the last couple of months is really starting to scare me.
With equal parts respect and exasperation: We want you to have fun and run wild with your passions MS - but, please attend to the ongoing headaches first. You say that problems are being addressed. If so, how about showing us, for starters from a long list, some of those long-promised pics from Lucid.
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Sounds like more of the same doesn't it?
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Sounds like more of the same doesn't it?
Do you mean like all of your posts so far on audiocircle? :lol:
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Unfortunately business skills have never been the strong suit for AV123. Considering that this latest blunder is hardly suprising. I raised valid points that encouraged them to address current issues and was typically met with hostile responses from the cheerleaders, and more unbelievably from the staff. Glad I found better value elsewhere (thanks Rick) before I took the plunge with these characters. Been a forum member for over two years there now, really is a soap opera. Still seem to be some good people in the "family", but sheesh. :duh:
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http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347
Thanks for the warning. Wink2
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Satfrat, I admit I'm new here but most of the other posts about AV123 are negative too. Maybe even the folks who were followers are starting to see the light.
Maybe this "shutdown" at AV123 is their way of taking back the forum and their business. It wouldn't be the first time a business has shutdown temporarily to refocus, recharge, and develop a strategy for the future, i.e., less product offerings, catchup with production and rework issues. I understand the forum is starting from scratch too. And everyone knows the forum is the life blood of their business.
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Satfrat, I admit I'm new here but most of the other posts about AV123 are negative too. Maybe even the folks who were followers are starting to see the light.
Maybe this "shutdown" at AV123 is their way of taking back the forum and their business. It wouldn't be the first time a business has shutdown temporarily to refocus, recharge, and develop a strategy for the future, i.e., less product offerings, catchup with production and rework issues. I understand the forum is starting from scratch too. And everyone knows the forum is the life blood of their business.
Just having a little fun in a sea of negativity but your "more of the same" remarked begged for a reply as it just seemed to reflect on all your posts to date. Doesn't mean anything. :D Hopefully they'll be less of the same down the road or you'll start to sound like a broken record. :lol: Just kidding again. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347
:o OMFG :o
This just has disaster written all over it..... (no offense) but MLS can't even keep the fires out at AV123 and now he's off to spread himself even thinner at TCA..... :duh: it's as if a 10 yo with ADD is driving the train right off the track and everyone is cheering from the sidelines.
For reference, I have watched this drama unfold from the monster AVS/Diva thread days (2002) thru today. I own about 10 pairs of AV123 speakers, two subs and a Perpetual Tech combo w/ SOCS. Other than the PT combo, I gave up on AV123 electronics way back around the EMO LMC-1 fiasco. This last move appears to be the final nail in the coffin IMO. I kinda agree with a lot of the 'soap opera' comments here. Some are actually spot on.
Good luck Mark, but you seriously need a 'handler' to reel you in to making some better decisions.
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With as long as this has been going on now, I can't help but think that the length of this outage is intentional. I spent years in IT and worked with companies both larger and smaller than AV123 on mission-critical systems. If the priority was to get this back up and running, it would be back up by now. The only possible exception would be the absolute physical destruction of all the code including backups (and that would have to include the original developers backups/betas).
While I was never in the "rabid fanboy" section of the bleachers, I have been a huge supporter so far and have spent more than I care to recall on products from AV123. With the direction that the company has been headed recently and now this - I have to say that my confidence is pretty well gone. I honestly hope that they can turn this around but I have no idea how MLS is going to be able to handle TCA in addition to AV123...
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What an ugly mess, especially for an ID company...
Should we even care at this point?
A mess indeed...
The people that care DO... those that don't have other things on their minds...
The site is back up now - and the forum will be there soon...
Thanks for your post...
All the best...
mls
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av123.com isn't back up yet.....leads to a hosting company website.
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Which is why I have always been confused that AV123 doesn't have an IT guru. Someone to chase down the voicemail and e-mail bugs and keep things up and running. :scratch:
Unfortunately, as you know, that would be somewhat counter-intuitive as to how Mark does business. Name me another company that has seen 75% growth (maybe I am actually understating that figure?) over the last 2 years and yet seems to view adding staff as a secondary concern. (Almost) all of us love Mark and wish av123 continued success, but it's unbelievable on how they keep dropping the ball on the lowest hanging fruit. In this economy (going back about 6 months to present), finding qualified people should not be THAT difficult.
Instead let's just keep making more false promises about delivery dates + conjecture about more "gee-whiz" product lines + announce new holiday sales (and daily specials) with attendant pre-orders while people are still waiting for orders placed 6, 12, 18 months ago + defer concrete, concise updates in lieu of an omnibus "tell-all" letter that needs to be repeatedly reworked in order to set just the right tone and background = a frickin' train wreck of a soap opera.
Sorry, for beating the horse deader.....AND restating the obvious.
[/quote]
Wow... and you would want me to reply to this... :wink:
The business has been doing fine this year - up over 16% - but margins are down... I wrote the 1st part of a letter discussing in very candid terms the issues we have faced... I wonder how any of you might reply if you were in my shoes - oh wait - you're not...
We have had our share of challenges like any company in this economy - and we have faced a fair bit more due to some bad decision making - but we are still here - slugging away and with sales that have really impressed the ownership of this business...
People will second guess - take their shots - and know that basically I will sit quiet - I'm STILL smiling even through a horrible few weeks with personal health - my wife's health - a break in - and then the server farm where our "stuff" is housed being attacked by an angry ex-employee...
LIFE GOES ON...
Still making music and enjoying myself more than anyone has any right...
All the best...
mls
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av123.com isn't back up yet.....leads to a hosting company website.
It's up for me...
:)
Working well to - and restored to the exact point per their promise...
Enjoy...
mls
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av123.com isn't back up yet.....leads to a hosting company website.
Same here.
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Anyone who just read MLS' thread at Tweak City should come away with the same thoughts I just did. If he can't run AV123 right, how is he going to help Tweak City now. The man is full of promises. Maybe his partners at AV123 finally had enough of him. Stay tuned as..............The Soap Opera continues.
Should be fun to watch at least......the new promises anyway. And where's that second letter. It would be nice to see that second letter before he makes any new announcements. The train wreck continues.........
I would venture to say this...
av123 is run better than most - but certainly not as good as some...
Soup operas indeed... Danny was right about this thread... What about you - and what you have to say here... Contributing - Helping - Collecting...
Steve was an ass... and EVERYONE (not just me) saw it that way... You don't like it - I have a solution - vote with your money, or don't visit...
There are always people like you that will take a shot behind a keyboard... there have always been people like you too - I suspect that others feels the same way - but I wonder this... When guys are upset about delivery do you ever find us NOT delivering the goods - nope. And then again once the goods arrive are people happy with their purchases... THAT's the TRUE MEASURE... not some conjured BS because it's convenient or easy... Doesn't take much to hit someone when they are down ---- does it...
Over 98% of the people that buy from av123 are satisfied... over 98%... Did you see the poll where over 70% owned more than 10 of our products... Wonder why...
It's so easy to hate - so easy to be less helpful... so easy to be down...
Not us... not now... not ever...
Enjoy your holidays...
mls
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av123.com isn't back up yet.....leads to a hosting company website.
Same here.
There might be some cache issues and pointers to deal with... Re-set please... and then try...
Thanks...
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http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347
:o OMFG :o
This just has disaster written all over it..... (no offense) but MLS can't even keep the fires out at AV123 and now he's off to spread himself even thinner at TCA..... :duh: it's as if a 10 yo with ADD is driving the train right off the track and everyone is cheering from the sidelines.
For reference, I have watched this drama unfold from the monster AVS/Diva thread days (2002) thru today. I own about 10 pairs of AV123 speakers, two subs and a Perpetual Tech combo w/ SOCS. Other than the PT combo, I gave up on AV123 electronics way back around the EMO LMC-1 fiasco. This last move appears to be the final nail in the coffin IMO. I kinda agree with a lot of the 'soap opera' comments here. Some are actually spot on.
Good luck Mark, but you seriously need a 'handler' to reel you in to making some better decisions.
Thanks RM... your opinion is duly noted...
Check back after all 4 parts of the letter I have written have been posted...
Warmest regards - no matter your comments...
mls
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There might be some cache issues and pointers to deal with... Re-set please... and then try...
Flushed cache and it still points to Threshold for the main site and a parallels temp page for the forum. DNS changes must still be replicating through the servers.
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and then the server farm where our "stuff" is housed being attacked by an angry ex-employee...
Wha??? Is there any more to this story posted somewhere? If you're saying what I think you're saying, sounds like somebody should be facing some legal consequences.
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Satfrat, I admit I'm new here but most of the other posts about AV123 are negative too. Maybe even the folks who were followers are starting to see the light.
Maybe this "shutdown" at AV123 is their way of taking back the forum and their business. It wouldn't be the first time a business has shutdown temporarily to refocus, recharge, and develop a strategy for the future, i.e., less product offerings, catchup with production and rework issues. I understand the forum is starting from scratch too. And everyone knows the forum is the life blood of their business.
BTW... this is why I do what I do...
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/nsm.htm
I understand and accept many of the concerns raised here - some really surprise me though (from guys that I thought really liked and appreciated what we do - guess I was wrong)...
I love what I'm doing - and if I were doing it so poorly I really have to wonder how it is we have grown the way we have and are seeing phenominal input for many of our newer productds...
LS-6's
ELT's (some incredible new reviews)
x-statik (don't get me started about how good a speaker this is... it's a WOW for me)...
Lots of good new stuff coming in too...
We are very open with our blunders and we let you guys know when we screwed the pooch... I wonder what some of you might say if you knew what other companies were REALLY going through... (not what they "put out")... We build for a LOT of companies - and I knew way too much - the good news is my "perspective" is in line...
Getting some FIRST CLASS help has been great for me... Really allows me to go off and do what I enjoy...
Thanks for letting me piggy-back this post...
All the best...
mls
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and then the server farm where our "stuff" is housed being attacked by an angry ex-employee...
Wha??? Is there any more to this story posted somewhere? If you're saying what I think you're saying, sounds like somebody should be facing some legal consequences.
Mike is coming in on Monday to sit down and chat it all over... Mike is a GREAT GUY (besides being Sean's FIL)... We have talked several times and he feels terrible... Big Time errors were made... We will get it all settled between us two fellows...
Best...
mls
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There might be some cache issues and pointers to deal with... Re-set please... and then try...
Flushed cache and it still points to Threshold for the main site and a parallels temp page for the forum. DNS changes must still be replicating through the servers.
I don't know Brad... I'm staring at it via Mozilla right now... ????
I have had it up on Safari too a moment ago...
Not sure...
As everyone here knows by now... I ain't no expert - just a Turkey Eating Fool...
Enjoy your day...
Best...
mls
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Did anyone notice how many views this thread has received...
Wow... I've learned a lot from all of this...
Best...
mls
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http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=347
:o OMFG :o
This just has disaster written all over it..... (no offense) but MLS can't even keep the fires out at AV123 and now he's off to spread himself even thinner at TCA..... :duh: it's as if a 10 yo with ADD is driving the train right off the track and everyone is cheering from the sidelines.
For reference, I have watched this drama unfold from the monster AVS/Diva thread days (2002) thru today. I own about 10 pairs of AV123 speakers, two subs and a Perpetual Tech combo w/ SOCS. Other than the PT combo, I gave up on AV123 electronics way back around the EMO LMC-1 fiasco. This last move appears to be the final nail in the coffin IMO. I kinda agree with a lot of the 'soap opera' comments here. Some are actually spot on.
Good luck Mark, but you seriously need a 'handler' to reel you in to making some better decisions.
BTW... last I checked you were enjoying lots of nice gear from the same company and same guy... :)
He still loves you...
Enjoy your T Day...
Best...
mls
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There might be some cache issues and pointers to deal with... Re-set please... and then try...
Flushed cache and it still points to Threshold for the main site and a parallels temp page for the forum. DNS changes must still be replicating through the servers.
Yeah, whatever you said makes sense. I think. :scratch:I get the Threshold site as well.
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There might be some cache issues and pointers to deal with... Re-set please... and then try...
Flushed cache and it still points to Threshold for the main site and a parallels temp page for the forum. DNS changes must still be replicating through the servers.
I don't know Brad... I'm staring at it via Mozilla right now... ????
I have had it up on Safari too a moment ago...
Not sure...
As everyone here knows by now... I ain't no expert - just a Turkey Eating Fool...
Enjoy your day...
Best...
mls
I'll skip the technical jargon and just say that these changes are neither instantaneous, nor simultaneous, so it probably won't be until tomorrow that everyone can reach the new site regardless of flushing their local computer caches.
The long version involves DNS authoritative servers, caching servers, TTLs (time to live), etc. :)
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OK, website is working for me! :thumb:
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There might be some cache issues and pointers to deal with... Re-set please... and then try...
Flushed cache and it still points to Threshold for the main site and a parallels temp page for the forum. DNS changes must still be replicating through the servers.
I don't know Brad... I'm staring at it via Mozilla right now... ????
I have had it up on Safari too a moment ago...
Not sure...
As everyone here knows by now... I ain't no expert - just a Turkey Eating Fool...
Enjoy your day...
Best...
mls
I'll skip the technical jargon and just say that these changes are neither instantaneous, nor simultaneous, so it probably won't be until tomorrow that everyone can reach the new site regardless of flushing their local computer caches.
The long version involves DNS authoritative servers, caching servers, TTLs (time to live), etc. :)
Exactly...
I remember when we went to the new site - it took one extra day for me... I was bummed...
Hope your T Day will be fun in The South Brad... Cold here bubba...
:)
Best...
mls
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I think that Steve guy had MLS and his business pegged before anyone else did. I think he (and others) finally woke MLS up to where he finally had to address things and change the way he did business. That's good for the company, even if they had to hit MLS over the head to get his attention.
The doctor is still out on this whole thing. Only time will tell if MLS "gets it." Vote with your dollars, but only if it's in stock, works, and you get a promised delivery date. Seems to me, everything the man has said here is just more of the same.
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last I checked you were enjoying lots of nice gear from the same company...
and I never indicated otherwise... and have no plans to post any classified ads anytime soon.
Good luck to you and AV123 Mark. I really hope to see things turn around in your favor.
PS - AV123.com works on my browser.
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MLS and AV123 are going to be just fine. Sure a lot of second guessing from folks with no skin in the game. Vote with your money. I'm sticking with AV123.
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I got into the old forum, but then couldn't.
Now I use "75.126.14.199" to get there and it seems to be working fine.
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OK, I've been a lurker on the AV123 forum for a long time (pre Emotiva days, to put things into perspective). In that time, I have watched the way MLS conduct business. Yes, it is different from a lot of others, who keep their cards close to their chest and only reveal a final finished project. Mark involves people from the inception stages. This gets people involved and invested in his business and they become part of the 'family'. The down-side is that delays may occur or previously planned ideas may never come to fruition... which irks the average consumers that want, and demand, instant gratification. However, in the face of even the most severe criticism, I have NEVER seen Mark respond in anything but a dignified tone. Case in point, some of the comments earlier in this thread. Whatever you may say about Mark, he is a gentleman- through and through....and that counts for a whole lot in my book.
Oh, and I don't own a single item from AV123. But would I consider it? You betcha!
Just my two -penny bit...
Ajay
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I got into the old forum, but then couldn't.
Now I use "75.126.14.199" to get there and it seems to be working fine.
75.126.14.199 is working for me also, but the usual way is still only taking me to the Threshold site.
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Site worked fine for me a few minutes ago, just from my usual forum bookmark. Using Opera, not that it should matter...
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OK, I've been a lurker on the AV123 forum for a long time (pre Emotiva days, to put things into perspective). In that time, I have watched the way MLS conduct business. Yes, it is different from a lot of others, who keep their cards close to their chest and only reveal a final finished project. Mark involves people from the inception stages. This gets people involved and invested in his business and they become part of the 'family'. The down-side is that delays may occur or previously planned ideas may never come to fruition... which irks the average consumers that want, and demand, instant gratification. However, in the face of even the most severe criticism, I have NEVER seen Mark respond in anything but a dignified tone. Case in point, some of the comments earlier in this thread. Whatever you may say about Mark, he is a gentleman- through and through....and that counts for a whole lot in my book.
Oh, and I don't own a single item from AV123. But would I consider it? You betcha!
Just my two -penny bit...
Ajay
Ajay,
I agree that Mark is a gentleman and genuinely nice person.
However, that doesn't wash away all of the continued delivery delays and product production issues. I have friends who have been waiting for well over a year for speakers that were promised way before that time frame. It would be one thing if that only happened once, but extremely long delays seem to happen much more than one would like to see from AV123. While some amount of delay "might" be expected due to Mark and AV123 communicating plans earlier than most companies, you still have to deliver on your promises. Just because we all like Mark, doesn't mean that we should have to tolerate delay after delay, missed commitments, etc...
Once product is delivered, I totally agree with Mark that people are very happy and satisfied with the product.
While I enjoy my x-ls setup in my living room (as well as 2 pairs of Swan Diva surround speakers in my HT), the issues that have plagued AV123 for the past year plus have prevented me from considering future purchases. I simply won't buy anything from AV123 until my friends finally receive their paid for products and the delivery issues are resolved.
I can only hope that Mark and the folks at AV123 figure out their delivery issues soon and that they get things back on track.
George
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It's a little sad to see this kind of thoughtless bashing and kicking of the company while it was temporarily down. On the plus side, apparently the x-amp is days away, finally. I've heard it is a very nice product and a lot of folks will be very happy.
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It's a little sad to see this kind of thoughtless bashing and kicking of the company while it was temporarily down. On the plus side, apparently the x-amp is days away, finally. I've heard it is a very nice product and a lot of folks will be very happy.
I don't think that the comments in this thread are "thoughtless bashing and kicking of the company while it (the website) was temporarily down". The points are valid and basically the same ones that have been brought up on the AV123 forum.
With that in mind, let's hope that this is just a bad spell for Mark and AV123, and that they are able to address the problems.
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It's a little sad to see this kind of thoughtless bashing and kicking of the company while it was temporarily down. On the plus side, apparently the x-amp is days away, finally. I've heard it is a very nice product and a lot of folks will be very happy.
You are obviously not in touch with what has been going on over at AV123 the past year or two... Good luck with anyone getting that "x-amp" any time soon. :lol:
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Looking at the title of this thread, you'd think it was a mole hill at best, 10 pages later it's Mount Everest, bordering on a national crisis. When Audio circle goes down, does it get this kind of attention elsewhere?
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BTW... this is why I do what I do...
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/nsm.htm
I understand and accept many of the concerns raised here - some really surprise me though (from guys that I thought really liked and appreciated what we do - guess I was wrong)...
[/quote]
Mark, from a cost and quality perepective, the products that av123 deliver are 2nd to none. As you might know, I have voted with my pocketbook to a tune of over $6K and recommended your products to dozens of friends, family members and associates over the years. So, please don't think that I (and, I daresay, that others in a similar position) have no "skin" in the game and are taking shots at you. Frustration naturally ensues when something (products, updates, fixes, etc.) is promised within a timeframe and not delivered. Customers feel disrespected (as you do now) and it quickly devolves. In my humble opinion, this should not be a zero-sum game where people either have to accept things as they are or go purchase their product somewhere else.
I understand that there is much beyond your control regarding product delivery - however, you do have control over how much information you can share with us. I respectfully ask that you do so ASAP via that long sought letter and let the chips fall where they may. And, really, at this point that is ALL I ask. I can continue to wait, but it would greatly help to know where things stand. My guess is that MANY of my fellow customers share this sentiment. Thirst is usually satiated by knowledge. Thank you.
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When that second letter finally arrives it would be nice to see it reprinted here.
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(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m79/rmassey99/AV123_Down.jpg)
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You know... I really support AV123. I've had some speakers on order for 2 years now, and have never complained because I knew what I was getting into. I also just bought another pair (different speakers) during their cyber Monday sale.
But sometimes I wonder if they know they're an internet company. I mean, taking the forum down until a letter gets posted? WTF??? I've been checking the forum as much as anyone, and I haven't seen any bad manners in the past few days - just a bunch of people talking. This action doesn't make much sense. I'm sure that we'll be told that there's a lot happening behind the scenes that we're not aware of, which I'm sure is true, but I have to wonder if they realize how something like this looks to the outside world.
In the end, maybe I shouldn't care. I just want my speakers, and I know they'll come as soon as they're ready. But... I would never have even found my speakers without AV123's forum. That's their public face (one of them, at least), and I worry about the actions they're taking.
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But sometimes I wonder if they know they're an internet company. I mean, taking the forum down until a letter gets posted? WTF??? ...
In the end, maybe I shouldn't care. I just want my speakers, and I know they'll come as soon as they're ready. But... I would never have even found my speakers without AV123's forum. That's their public face (one of them, at least), and I worry about the actions they're taking.
My thoughts exactly. If there are people who are causing issues, then put them under suspension. However, don't punish the whole group. I'm sure there are plenty of customers who received their goods today and are quite proud of them. They probably want to gloat - or, even as for some setup advice, etc. However, due to the inconvenience of the forum being closed, these activities can't occur.
OK ... now, you have me up on the soap box, but I'll stop at that - for now.
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Unless something major changes, I'll always be recommending av123 and supporting Mark running his company the way he thinks is best. Without even seeing letter #2 it seems from some comments he's made that he's on the right track(s).
But the shutdown of the forum makes absolutely no sense. None. I've thought long and hard and all I come up with are negatives. Hopefully the shutdown is short-term and the same with my perceived negative effects.
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You know... I really support AV123. I've had some speakers on order for 2 years now, and have never complained because I knew what I was getting into. I also just bought another pair (different speakers) during their cyber Monday sale.
You've been waiting 2 years for speakers?? I think that may be a record. :scratch:
I don't think anyone would wait two years for anything else... no worries honey I know it's an 07 model. Loyal or absurd the readers can decide...
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You've been waiting 2 years for speakers?? I think that may be a record. :scratch:
Yep, I placed my order for LS-9's on 12-1-06. And, no - it's not a record. Other people have been waiting for them longer than I have. I realized at the time that all they had was a design, and that many of the parts weren't currently available. I trusted Danny, and, because of AV123's forum, I trusted AV123, so I ordered.
And that's my point. We already trust AV123, and we trust Mark, and some of us have had the privilege of meeting him personally. But what of the people who are just now researching speakers? From their point of view, they come across a company that looks promising, but the forum has been closed and in it's place is (from their point of view) some weird message that means nothing to them. Since AV123 was a new idea for them anyway, and there are other companies to choose from, they move on.
I think some of this may be Mark's OCD. I've dealt with it in myself on a minor level, and also in other people I know. I think many more people have it than realize they do. <speculation>In Mark's case, I think the same OCD that's responsible for him not wanting deliver the letter until it's perfect is also responsible for him always going the extra mile and partially responsible for us getting such great speakers at such great prices.</speculation> Regardless, Mark is a whole person and I accept him as such. I just don't want it to hurt the company.
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I've had both delivery and quality issues with av123, but I'm still happy with them because of price/performance ratio. Also I've been happy with customer service working through the issues. It seems like Mark would only like to see positive posts (can't blaim him there), buit if I can't post about all experiences, positive or negative, I'm not going to post anything.
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I think most of the problems have stemmed from electronics.
I love my speakers (10 currently +2 subs)....wouldn't buy an amp though.
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Just my 2 cents...I ordered a subwoofer on black friday of LAST year...The wrong subwoofer was delivered about a month ago...After 3 weeks the transformer hummed so loud that I had to unplug sub from wall outlet...Called AV123 and sub was picked up...I requested that they send the CORRECT sub back to me since Kyle said they had the cabinet in stock...I ordered a ULW and got a UFW...No biggy if the sub worked ,I would have kept it...Anyway, I have called twice and spoke with Kyle and Suzanne and still await a return call...It has be about 3 weeks now...Point is: They had my money since November of last year, sent sub that was "sub par", accepted the return and now I wait some more...Maybe it's time for some folks, including myself to call the BBB and file a complaint...Mark IS a nice guy but needs to get his act together on a few important things...Mainly customer service and QC...I don't know what to do anymore...Just disgusted... :(
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Kind of sucks having the forum down because the PM system isn't working either.
Note to self: get people's email addresses in the future. :duh:
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It is really is a funny thing to do. Lock out all forum members (mostly clients) to ... do what exactly (aside from insulting them)? I'm just trying to imagine doing something similar to my clients :duh:. I'd be out of work pretty fast. For me, closing the forum is akin to shooting the messenger and it will have the same effect as spitting into the wind...
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edit: Oops I quoted myself instead of Emac
Hey Ed! Nice seeing you around... :D
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I actually don't think it will have as big an impact as we think.
The overwhelming majority of the people who frequent the forum seem incredibly loyal and devoted to Mark and AV123. I doubt that a forum closure will drive them away if all the product delays, quality issues, etc...didn't do it.
George
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MLS is on the forums way too much also. I know there are are lot of followers that say he isn't on enough and that he "makes" the forum but just look at some of his posts lately. Most of his posts are in response to negative comments. And he addresses those posts individually. You can't be on the forum, run a business, design, and put out fires at the same time. The man is stretched way too thin. Someone is gonna have to hit him over the head for him to realize this. Letter or no letter, I don't think he can actually pull himself away from that. Call it OCD, call it what you will. I see it as lack of discipline and an unwillingness to change. I would call him more passive aggressive. He'll say he wants to change, but can't or won't.
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I actually don't think it will have as big an impact as we think.
The overwhelming majority of the people who frequent the forum seem incredibly loyal and devoted to Mark and AV123. I doubt that a forum closure will drive them away if all the product delays, quality issues, etc...didn't do it.
George
I'm not saying it will have a huge impact, but it will have an impact, however small, and it won't be positive. It just seems completely unnecessary to me.
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edit: Oops I quoted myself instead of Emac
Hey Ed! Nice seeing you around... :D
How's it going? Haven't been posting on the AV123 forum. Better for my blood pressure.
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edit: Oops I quoted myself instead of Emac
Hey Ed! Nice seeing you around... :D
How's it going? Haven't been posting on the AV123 forum. Better for my blood pressure.
It's too bad, such a fun forum. I have no idea where to go now. Any suggestions?
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It's too bad, such a fun forum. I have no idea where to go now. Any suggestions?
Here's as good a place as any. Though, honestly, now that I don't spend as much time posting, I've been listening to more music. Which is always good.
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It's too bad, such a fun forum. I have no idea where to go now. Any suggestions?
Here's as good a place as any. Though, honestly, now that I don't spend as much time posting, I've been listening to more music. Which is always good.
Well I have to agree with you there, it can be very time consumming. When the forum went down I started renovating at my place. I'd never been on a forum before av123 and I'm hooked. I feel as if I've made some friends there that I will miss in the case that they disappear. I feel kind of pathetic but these days with everyone living in their own little world, the forum fills a need for socializing. I prefer posting to chatting and I enjoy the fact that anyone can come into a thread and add something and off it goes all on it's own! Anyway, that was my stream of consciousness...
They're discussing the av123 forum over at Craigsub's forum if anyone is interested. The majority thinks it's a business problem not a forum problem...
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Looks like it wasn't going Craig's way so he deleted the thread... :evil: Craig is incredible...
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Looks like it wasn't going Craig's way so he deleted the thread... :evil: Craig is incredible...
Interesting. I looked at that thread about 1.5-2 hrs ago. May be I missed something, but the tone today seemed civil, and it didn't say anything that hadn't been said elsewhere by a number of people.
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I have a few items to sell once it starts back, then I'm out....
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Looks like it wasn't going Craig's way so he deleted the thread... :evil: Craig is incredible...
Interesting. I looked at that thread about 1.5-2 hrs ago. May be I missed something, but the tone today seemed civil, and it didn't say anything that hadn't been said elsewhere by a number of people.
It was quite civil. And there were many good suggestions, especially one by m-fine. But Craig wanted suggestions to improve the forum. By and large it was people saying that Mark should tighten up his business practices and the forum would take care of itself. I get the feeling Craig was looking for suggestions that might lead to his type of moderation: Lock threads at night, edit peoples posts without notice and delete threads not going your way. I know Craig and Mark are now business partners, I certainly hope Craig does not have Mark's ear on how to run a forum. If he does it will be a very sterile place...
In the interest of full disclosure: Craig banned me from his site after a fairly silly and unpleasant argument we had about a poll he started at av123...
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Hey guys!! Good to see ya here!! Ed, sorry I haven't emailed you... I just figured I could go in and read my PMs again whenever I got a chance to reply back :(. Honestly, I agree with many of the sentiments I see here-- I completely understand that the forum has not been the most pleasant place recently, and that some things should probably change, but locking everybody out just seems outlandish to me. I don't get the point... It's a punishment for the people who want to be there, and a vindication for the people who wanted to stir up crap. Sigh... I'm not much on telling people how to run their businesses, and I'm a BIG AV123 and MLS fan, but from my admittedly poor vantage point, it really does seem like Mark would make his life infinitely easier if he would just learn to delegate and hire an assistant. He is an absolutely tremendous person IMO, and I really think he's doing some pretty wrong things with every intention of doing the right things. I have no idea what happened with Ed, and it isn't my business; but I have trouble imagining there was anything done that warranted his temporary suspension from the forum. And my mom has been waiting for a speaker for several months, and finally just asked for a refund recently in order to help finance a new Rocket system, and now she's waiting on the refund too. He is a brilliant, warm-hearted, and outright great person IMO... He just really needs to get a better system for personal organization in place so he can execute on all those great impulses and intentions. Any, just my piece...
Finally got to hear my CI Audio VDA-2 for the first time tonight!! Unfortunately, it's on a pretty low-fi system, so I'm not going to really get to put it to the test until later... I'll hold off on impressions until I have a better idea how it really sounds.
I'll see you guys around... Probably here more than at AV123, unfortunately :(
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I am starting to get the feeling that I need to find a new audio forum. Yesterday's unexpected shutdown left me a little miffed, and quite honestly I am getting tired of the drama involved with the AV123 community. I have a feeling that I will be spending alot more time here at Audiocircle in 2009, not by choice but out of necessity. It's just not fun anymore. No doubt that I will miss the comrade of many of my friends at AV123, but such is life.
Maybe I can even talk a few of my local friends to jump ship with me, Mutiny on the Bounty style. aa
(http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/actors_films_images/mutiny_on_the_bounty_clarke_gable_charles_laughton.jpg)
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SetterP - AC is a nice place to hang out and pretty low on drama (naturally there are isolated incidents). As much of a hard time as I give the mods here for creating a billion forum areas, I do like how it has worked out for the higher volume off-topic areas like cooking, photography, etc.
There are a lot of great companies here who make a lot of excellent products. Equipment recommendations are heavy on the forum companies because of most AC members are customers of one of more of the companies. That said, it still leads to a wider variety of recommendations than most of the company run forums.
It's a good place and one of the best balances in an audio forum, IMO.
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Right on Brad. I've always lurked AC, but I think it's finally time for me to become fully involved here. I am starting to take my audio training wheels off, and ready to expand my horizons.
By the way, never got a chance to comment, but your pictures from Prague were phenomenal. :thumb:
Patrick
P.S. Still owe you a brew at the Brick Store sometime soon. They have Avery Old Jubilation on tap right now, and it's to die for.
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I have no idea what happened with Ed, and it isn't my business; but I have trouble imagining there was anything done that warranted his temporary suspension from the forum.
Regarding the temporary suspension, there was never any significant communication that happened behind the scenes. So, in this case you all know as much as I do. That's why I basically stopped posting. Not worth the headaches and high blood pressure, even though I liked chatting with most of the people there.
I agree w/ BradJudy that AC is a good place to come to. It's obviously not the same type of close knit community as the AV123 forum, but it's broader in scope, which has its advantages.
And to mobileusa, you can certainly sell things here. Works the same way as on AV123. I'm pretty sure I got my Hawthorne SI's from someone here, and perhaps my Sonic Impact Super T (though I don't remember now).
Also PM sent to Theogenes about the modded Panny.
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Looks like I just jumped ship 8)
Locking the forum to everyone was like punishing every kid in the room because one of them was acting up. :nono:
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Interesting that there are so many who have frequented the AV123 forum coming over here now that the forum's been shut down temporarily. I'm curious to see how many people return to the forum when it reopens.
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Some of us have been here - probably longer than on the AV123 forum.
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Patrick, I remember telling you guys to come over here last time...are we finally going to learn? :nono:
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Some of us have been here - probably longer than on the AV123 forum.
Yes, I've been here for a long time under another screen name, but I think in 5 years I only had 19 posts.
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Patrick, I remember telling you guys to come over here last time...are we finally going to learn? :nono:
Lesson learned.
Now let's get to work petitioning for an ATL circle. Can't let those NY ravers have all the fun. 8)
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Do they have a "What are you listening to now" thread here? And I just watched a great movie :D...
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Actually earlier on Mark said he was going to shut it down for a revamp. If anyone remembers, I started a thread over at AV123 about where to go if / when AV123 went down again. I asked if we should go to AC. TCA or AVS.
An internet direct company does not need a forum. Just doesn't.
I don't think I've been pro or con AV123 over the years; I certainly don't email or phone MLS. I think I've emailed him twice over 5 years and met him once.
But lately it doesn't matter where the AV123 group "meets", any discussion gets gets out of hand with a lot of people posting what they think should be done. While that can be a healthy dialog, with AV123 it just started to get ..... "debative" if that's really a term.
I think Mark is just under so much pressure right now. It's been implied that they don't have the amount of staff they should. The Cali situation has got to have been both a management and financial mess for both Mark and Craig, not to mention Santiago. And there have been issues with the electronics supplier with the amps and Gizmos. Someone has been hacking into the AV123 website and then the temp forum. Family health issues. And of course the two break-ins at the business site, with the last one sounding not to be a good situation. Think about all of that and who you would wish all that on. Under this economy.
I'm not stating that none of the issues were not self inflicted - I wouldn't know, it would just be opinion. But sometimes you have to give people some space. He needs to sort out what to do with HIS company .... and life.
I'm also not stating it's OK to have a problem or be out prepaid money. I've had / have my own issues with both situations. But I think we all know one of Mark's "faults" is trying to make things right, so in the long term it will work out. But he needs to figure out what to do ....... on his own.
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Looks like I just jumped ship 8)
Locking the forum to everyone was like punishing every kid in the room because one of them was acting up. :nono:
That is such a weird thing to do. Beyond comprehension to me and the little message about us learning that "change often comes with a price." Puleeeeze. And Toomanytoys, I hardly see how creating a brand new problem solves anything...
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WHAT brand new problem ? :scratch:
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Hey kids...the water seems nice and warm over here. Strange happenings back at the farm. Not really sure what mls is thinking, but it seems like he is maybe being too influenced by a certain individual who tends to demand that things go his way or no way at all. Whatever. Less drama and more audio talk would be good.
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Love my Ref 3's. aa
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Do they have a "What are you listening to now" thread here? And I just watched a great movie :D...
Here ya go!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=26231.msg561311;topicseen#new
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WHAT brand new problem ? :scratch:
He's managed to annoy nice levelheaded people like Setterp and Theogenes by shutting down the forum (and how many more that we don't know about)? For what exactly?
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Do they have a "What are you listening to now" thread here? And I just watched a great movie :D...
Here ya go!
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=26231.msg561311;topicseen#new
Thanks! :thumb:
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Hey kids...the water seems nice and warm over here. Strange happenings back at the farm. Not really sure what mls is thinking, but it seems like he is maybe being too influenced by a certain individual who tends to demand that things go his way or no way at all. Whatever. Less drama and more audio talk would be good.
Now who could that be? :lol:
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After getting the smack down from Craig I found my way over here. Feels nice and open to all ideas. I signed up here a long time ago but I don't think I ever posted so either they erased my membership or I just can't remember what it was. I think I will stay a bit. :thumb:
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After getting the smack down from Craig I found my way over here. Feels nice and open to all ideas. I signed up here a long time ago but I don't think I ever posted so either they erased my membership or I just can't remember what it was. I think I will stay a bit. :thumb:
I was wondering if any of you guys was a bit miffed...
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Geez, if anybody here mentions their health problems I'm gonna scream Wink2
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So..... is this the new home for AV123 refugees? Seems every forum I go to asking what happened over there the thread gets shut down or deleted, weird...! This place seems refreshingly cheerful, maybe way more than that other site I wonder!
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So..... is this the new home for AV123 refugees? Seems every forum I go to asking what happened over there the thread gets shut down or deleted, weird...! This place seems refreshingly cheerful, maybe way more than that other site I wonder!
Yeah, it looks like Marks plan to rid his forum of its most loyal members is working :roll:
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It's sure nice to "see" everyone. I'd like to buy everyone a beer. Bartender!
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I don’t get it either - was the plan to intentionally alienate everyone? Drive away the old time supporters as well as the newer customers who were becoming increasingly less tolerant of the delays and excuses? The number of people I saw who actually posted abusive or inappropriate things was fractionally small and could have been easily handled by active and competent moderation. Not an auspicious start to the "new and improved" AV123...
I have been a long time supporter and have purchased literally pallets of gear from Mark and AV123. I don't think that I have ever been anything less that professional in my dealings with Mark, the company, or other forum members. I did try (like many others) to honestly observe and offer an opinion on why the problems have been springing out of the woodwork lately. Not out of malice, or a desire to do harm, or to hurt Mark's feelings, but because it needed to be said. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t have taken the time. I can't count the number of times that Mark stated that the forums were there for both the good and the bad and that was one of the reasons I had been a supporter up to this point. As soon as the "bad" starts being censored, it becomes impossible to get the real story. The very idea of hiding the problems (of which there have been many, and many seemingly legitimate) or shuffling them off out of sight of potential customers is concerning to say the least.
As should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place. What is most disappointing is that the TCA thread, like most of the ones on AV123, had numerous legitimate, courteously stated suggestions and observations - they just weren't what Craig wanted to hear. The general gist - and M-fine stated it most eloquently - was that if AV123 fixed the problems with the company, the issues with the forum would take care of themselves. "Fixing" the forum without addressing the underlying issues won't solve anything and is akin to putting a bandaid on a compound fracture. It may cover up the blood for a little while, but that won't heal the damage.
I have heard all the stories, and I am truly and honestly sorry for all of the problems and issues that Mark has had to deal with recently. Hopefully there is someone there (who Mark will listen to) who is in a position to convince Mark to address the real problem, not just the easy and convenient one. I’d like to go back, I really would, but there needs to be some real actual change – not just good intentions.
I found Klaus and Odyssey here a while back and I have always wanted to try some Salk’s, maybe it’s time for some changes all around…
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/steps up the the microphone ...
/smile
/wave
Hey fellas!
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I don’t get it either - was the plan to intentionally alienate everyone? Drive away the old time supporters as well as the newer customers who were becoming increasingly less tolerant of the delays and excuses? The number of people I saw who actually posted abusive or inappropriate things was fractionally small and could have been easily handled by active and competent moderation. Not an auspicious start to the "new and improved" AV123...
I have been a long time supporter and have purchased literally pallets of gear from Mark and AV123. I don't think that I have ever been anything less that professional in my dealings with Mark, the company, or other forum members. I did try (like many others) to honestly observe and offer an opinion on why the problems have been springing out of the woodwork lately. Not out of malice, or a desire to do harm, or to hurt Mark's feelings, but because it needed to be said. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t have taken the time. I can't count the number of times that Mark stated that the forums were there for both the good and the bad and that was one of the reasons I had been a supporter up to this point. As soon as the "bad" starts being censored, it becomes impossible to get the real story. The very idea of hiding the problems (of which there have been many, and many seemingly legitimate) or shuffling them off out of sight of potential customers is concerning to say the least.
As should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place. What is most disappointing is that the TCA thread, like most of the ones on AV123, had numerous legitimate, courteously stated suggestions and observations - they just weren't what Craig wanted to hear. The general gist - and M-fine stated it most eloquently - was that if AV123 fixed the problems with the company, the issues with the forum would take care of themselves. "Fixing" the forum without addressing the underlying issues won't solve anything and is akin to putting a bandaid on a compound fracture. It may cover up the blood for a little while, but that won't heal the damage.
I have heard all the stories, and I am truly and honestly sorry for all of the problems and issues that Mark has had to deal with recently. Hopefully there is someone there (who Mark will listen to) who is in a position to convince Mark to address the real problem, not just the easy and convenient one. I’d like to go back, I really would, but there needs to be some real actual change – not just good intentions.
I found Klaus and Odyssey here a while back and I have always wanted to try some Salk’s, maybe it’s time for some changes all around…
Good post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.
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As should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place.
Just wondering why that should be expected? Because Craig is Craig or because of the business relationship? Craig actually started the thread...
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Great replies by many here... I agree with most. This thread should be a bit of a wake up call to MLS. With so many expressing essentially the same concerns.
Like I said a few page back, Mark needs a 'handler' and start making some better decisions.
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As should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place.
Just wondering why that should be expected? Because Craig is Craig or because of the business relationship? Craig actually started the thread...
A little bit of both I suppose - he had shut it down before and stepped in a couple of times to redirect it to where he wanted it to go. I have great respect for his knowledge but he seems to be a very "my way or the highway" kind of guy...
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Good post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.
I have been using a PC-Ultra (in conjunction with a UFW-10 and SMS-1) for a while in the theater and it definately gets the job done in a smaller room (12' X 13' - well treated). Not the tightest for critical music listening but for movies I have been very pleased with the performance. After the UFW-12 debacle (it's still an unpowered paperweight in the room) and the MFW-15 issues I was looking elsewhere for subs anyway. I am considering moving to a Seaton Submersive just to see what it can do :drool:
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As should be expected, Craig shut down the TCA thread on the subject. No surprise as there is a formal business relationship in place.
Just wondering why that should be expected? Because Craig is Craig or because of the business relationship? Craig actually started the thread...
A little bit of both I suppose - he had shut it down before and stepped in a couple of times to redirect it to where he wanted it to go. I have great respect for his knowledge but he seems to be a very "my way or the highway" kind of guy...
I wish it was a wake up call for both of them.
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Good post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.
I have been using a PC-Ultra (in conjunction with a UFW-10 and SMS-1) for a while in the theater and it definately gets the job done in a smaller room (12' X 13' - well treated). Not the tightest for critical music listening but for movies I have been very pleased with the performance. After the UFW-12 debacle (it's still an unpowered paperweight in the room) and the MFW-15 issues I was looking elsewhere for subs anyway. I am considering moving to a Seaton Submersive just to see what it can do :drool:
Hmmm. My room is roughly 18X16. I wonder if one Ultra will be enough? SVS customer service (EXCELLENT by the way) said it would do. I really don't care about movies, but I am a pretty avid music listener. I wonder if I should go with the Epik Conquest - ugly as it is.
Damn, just when I thought I had my mind made up.
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Good post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.
I have been using a PC-Ultra (in conjunction with a UFW-10 and SMS-1) for a while in the theater and it definately gets the job done in a smaller room (12' X 13' - well treated). Not the tightest for critical music listening but for movies I have been very pleased with the performance. After the UFW-12 debacle (it's still an unpowered paperweight in the room) and the MFW-15 issues I was looking elsewhere for subs anyway. I am considering moving to a Seaton Submersive just to see what it can do :drool:
The SVS subs are certainly one of the best price/performace choices around... at least for home theater. The Submersive I'd like to hear. Check out Epik as well as a great value sub lineup.
I can vouch for Rick and Selah Audio as being a great choice. Listening to his speakers at this very moment... I have five, and the Whomp! sub as well. Excellent value... better value, service, and quality than AV123 IMO.
Edit: Great minds think alike... Give the Epik a try so you can write a review for the rest of us. ;)
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Good post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.
I have been using a PC-Ultra (in conjunction with a UFW-10 and SMS-1) for a while in the theater and it definately gets the job done in a smaller room (12' X 13' - well treated). Not the tightest for critical music listening but for movies I have been very pleased with the performance. After the UFW-12 debacle (it's still an unpowered paperweight in the room) and the MFW-15 issues I was looking elsewhere for subs anyway. I am considering moving to a Seaton Submersive just to see what it can do :drool:
Hmmm. My room is roughly 18X16. I wonder if one Ultra will be enough? SVS customer service (EXCELLENT by the way) said it would do. I really don't care about movies, but I am a pretty avid music listener. I wonder if I should go with the Epik Conquest - ugly as it is.
Damn, just when I thought I had my mind made up.
I would check this out as well....the Rythmik is terrific...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62358.msg561323;topicseen#new
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I can vouch for Rick and Selah Audio as being a great choice. Listening to his speakers at this very moment... I have five, and the Whomp! sub as well. Excellent value... better value, service, and quality than AV123 IMO.
I've had Selah bookmarked for a long time. I would love to have his Galenas in my system :drool:
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I'm just glad some of my buds are over here...you really miss the social aspect of the forum when its gone...it's like all my audio buddies went on vacation and I am at home talking to the wife about the new DAC. :duh:
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I've had Selah bookmarked for a long time. I would love to have his Galenas in my system :drool:
Me too. Well, that "AOD" custom line array looks mighty nice too. :drool:
I have Tanzanites, S7s, Sardonyx, and the Whomp. Ordered about two years ago now... got them to the northwest in less than two months (holidays and all), imagine that. :P
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Well its good to find a new place to hang out. I just added this to my favorites bar. I agree with most everything that has been said in these last few pages (notably Dog Wizard, but pretty much everybody else too). I have spent the last hour jumping around this forum reading up and getting familiar with it. Its good to be around sensible adults again. Enjoy the rest of your night!
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Good post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.
I have been using a PC-Ultra (in conjunction with a UFW-10 and SMS-1) for a while in the theater and it definately gets the job done in a smaller room (12' X 13' - well treated). Not the tightest for critical music listening but for movies I have been very pleased with the performance. After the UFW-12 debacle (it's still an unpowered paperweight in the room) and the MFW-15 issues I was looking elsewhere for subs anyway. I am considering moving to a Seaton Submersive just to see what it can do :drool:
Just to clarify, I'm considering the new PC13-Ultra. Do you have that one or the earlier PC-Ultra model I've read about?
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It's sure nice to "see" everyone. I'd like to buy everyone a beer. Bartender!
Can I substitute mine for a Jack & Coke ? :guitar:
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Are you buying the next round?
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[/quote]
Good post. That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. For the record, I sold my UFW-10's last week and am going to purchase an SVS PC-Ultra on Monday. I initially wanted to get two MFW-15's, but with all the problems I've been reading about I scratched them from my list. I haven't read one bad thing about the SVS. I've been dreaming about my next set of speakers and I'm pretty sure they'll either be Salk, Selah Audio, or possibly the new GR OB's - if the price for them is reasonable. I WANTED the Ref-4's, but they never made it to production.
[/quote]
Don't forget the Submersive. Mark's having a sale and mine was 1895 delivered. Took one week to get because he had the parts in stock.
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It's sure nice to "see" everyone. I'd like to buy everyone a beer. Bartender!
Can I substitute mine for a Jack & Coke ? :guitar:
+1 Hopefully they don't close this place down. :nono:
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Are you buying the next round?
I have a pocket full of money and I'm thirsty :P
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Geez, I changed my e-mail addy and locked myself out of the forum last night, just when I was going to buy a round ( Jack and Coke ? that sounds terrible, I always thought bourbon was a macho cowboy drink but it tastes like fruit punch :D) .
So yeah, I locked myself out just when I was going to say something nice about Craigsub... What was it again :scratch:
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Just want to extend an AC welcome to all the refugees. Yes, this is a pretty friendly place on the audio planet, though with so much growth, AC attracts some misfits at times too. Of course, there are common sense rules regarding behavior, particularly discussion about individuals, politics, religion, etc. Guidelines here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42856.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42856.0) Oh, and we have a "Sports Bar" circle for everything non-audio, including liquor (especially scotch!) and things deemed NSFW (not suitable for women) :green:
Note also that this is AV123's own spot in the "Manufacturer's Mall", and is actually facilitated by MLS since Sean is no longer with AV123. If you're looking for broader discussion on subs, for example, the "Audio Central" circle might get you some good traffic and impartial advice on non-AV123 products compared to theirs. It also wouldn't be subject to AV123 facilitation in that location. There are many great sub/speaker manufacturers with circles here, some already mentioned, so take a look at ACI, DIYCables, Selah, GR, Salk, VMPS, Omega, Horneshoppe, Von Schweikert, Odyssey, SP Tech, RAW, AudioKinesis circles, among others.
As a "2+ year wait club member" for LS-9's and a satisfied owner of several AV123 products myself, I hope MLS sorts it all out. Perhaps having a "fall out" is part of the grand plan to become less of a social networking site and more of a manufacturer's forum anyway. So far, I suppose it's working. Who really knows, other than Mark, so it doesn't really contribute much to speculate further. He's gonna do what he's gotta do.
Life goes on, so don't let all this change drag you down. It's just change and it's a big world with plenty of room for everyone. And it's still just a hobby so jump in and have some fun... Try some of the other circles and make some new friends while you're at it. It's a great place.
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+1 Hopefully they don't close this place down. :nono:
What's with AVS anyway? They are kind of trigger happy over there... :peek:
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I think all of my posts so far have gone against the posting guidelines. :nono: Sorry...
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Come on django1, you're gonna get us blackballed here as well. :green: Maybe we need some sort of independent site where we are free to speak as we please. There must be something like that somewhere...
The cool thing about av123 forum in the "good old days", that I don't really see elsewhere, is you had the feeling of hanging out in a neighborood bar with a bunch of guys talking audio. Not a lot of rules to follow or restrictions to worry about, and no need for them either. Threads could go in any direction and no one whined; people joked and ribbed one another a bit; there was a general give and take without things getting crazy. Maybe the sheer number of folks there has doomed it. Now it's more like a packed nightclub with blaring muisc that you have to scream over to be heard. Not sure mls or anyone can "fix" it, just maybe manage it a bit better understanding that it will be different.
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Hey guys, I'm NOT a moderator (thank heavens), just pointing out this Circle is Mark's forum on AC. There is PLENTY of room all over AC to speak freely so carry on...
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Good post and good follow up Tom. I think all the posts to date are well within the spirit of AC, if not the "letter of the law" and would also encourage new transferees to check out the whole site as Tom said, there's a lot of good people, information, and discussion here on AC :thumb:
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Come on django1, you're gonna get us blackballed here as well. :green: Maybe we need some sort of independent site where we are free to speak as we please. There must be something like that somewhere...
The cool thing about av123 forum in the "good old days", that I don't really see elsewhere, is you had the feeling of hanging out in a neighborood bar with a bunch of guys talking audio. Not a lot of rules to follow or restrictions to worry about, and no need for them either. Threads could go in any direction and no one whined; people joked and ribbed one another a bit; there was a general give and take without things getting crazy. Maybe the sheer number of folks there has doomed it. Now it's more like a packed nightclub with blaring muisc that you have to scream over to be heard. Not sure mls or anyone can "fix" it, just maybe manage it a bit better understanding that it will be different.
I get the feeling that the idea is to turn the av123 forum in to a regular manufacturer's forum otherwise what is happening is senseless. You don't alienate a bunch of people just for fun. Do you? :scratch: It seems pretty nice here but the size is a bit daunting. We will see...
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Hey guys, I'm NOT a moderator (thank heavens), just pointing out this Circle is Mark's forum on AC. There is PLENTY of room all over AC to speak freely so carry on...
aa Thanks!
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Come on django1, you're gonna get us blackballed here as well. :green: Maybe we need some sort of independent site where we are free to speak as we please. There must be something like that somewhere...
The cool thing about av123 forum in the "good old days", that I don't really see elsewhere, is you had the feeling of hanging out in a neighborood bar with a bunch of guys talking audio. Not a lot of rules to follow or restrictions to worry about, and no need for them either. Threads could go in any direction and no one whined; people joked and ribbed one another a bit; there was a general give and take without things getting crazy. Maybe the sheer number of folks there has doomed it. Now it's more like a packed nightclub with blaring muisc that you have to scream over to be heard. Not sure mls or anyone can "fix" it, just maybe manage it a bit better understanding that it will be different.
I get the feeling that the idea is to turn the av123 forum in to a regular manufacturer's forum otherwise what is happening is senseless. You don't alienate a bunch of people just for fun. Do you? :scratch: It seems pretty nice here but the size is a bit daunting. We will see...
You can manage the size of AC through the favorites tab after you explore a bit and narrow down circles that really interest you...
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Ah so this is where everybody went!
I've read through this and tend to agree with a lot of what I've read....it's time to find a new place to go. I found the "neighborhood bar" feeling over at AV123 at one time too but now it's just turned into a soap opera. Seems to me that once some individuals started having problems and started posting about them and their feelings, many of them negative we have the "I'm taking my toys and going home" mentality. Sad really!
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Just want to extend an AC welcome to all the refugees. Yes, this is a pretty friendly place on the audio planet, though with so much growth, AC attracts some misfits at times too. Of course, there are common sense rules regarding behavior, particularly discussion about individuals, politics, religion, etc. Guidelines here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42856.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=42856.0) Oh, and we have a "Sports Bar" circle for everything non-audio, including liquor (especially scotch!) and things deemed NSFW (not suitable for women) :green:
Note also that this is AV123's own spot in the "Manufacturer's Mall", and is actually facilitated by MLS since Sean is no longer with AV123. If you're looking for broader discussion on subs, for example, the "Audio Central" circle might get you some good traffic and impartial advice on non-AV123 products compared to theirs. It also wouldn't be subject to AV123 facilitation in that location. There are many great sub/speaker manufacturers with circles here, some already mentioned, so take a look at ACI, DIYCables, Selah, GR, Salk, VMPS, Omega, Horneshoppe, Von Schweikert, Odyssey, SP Tech, RAW, AudioKinesis circles, among others.
As a "2+ year wait club member" for LS-9's and a satisfied owner of several AV123 products myself, I hope MLS sorts it all out. Perhaps having a "fall out" is part of the grand plan to become less of a social networking site and more of a manufacturer's forum anyway. So far, I suppose it's working. Who really knows, other than Mark, so it doesn't really contribute much to speculate further. He's gonna do what he's gotta do.
Life goes on, so don't let all this change drag you down. It's just change and it's a big world with plenty of room for everyone. And it's still just a hobby so jump in and have some fun... Try some of the other circles and make some new friends while you're at it. It's a great place.
Great post Tom. Welcome to everyone from av123 and please do check out the link to the rules-n-stuff in Towne Square. I hope we can help Mark out with some constructive discussion. I wish him and av123 the best in 2009.
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Morning Art & Tom,
You guys are up early huh?
Hopefully, the bad seed (there is only ONE at this time) won't find this place and spoils it like what he did over there.
I really hope for Mark's sake that he'll wake up somehow and realize something is not working and try to turn things around.
Personally, it is a shame since I truly believe he was at the top of the ID business and now...
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Damnit!, like I trainwreck, I tried to drive by this without looking, but just couldn't help it!
Anyone remember a little company called Perpetual Technologies?
Anyone remember the promises? The delays? The non-delivery? The excuses? The apologies? The health problems? DEJA VU???!!
MLS was a gentleman then too....Still is. He hasn't changed.
Anyone doing business with MLS is as much to blame for the problems, disappointments, etc., as MLS is himself. As my Mother use to say, "it only takes a cow once" (electric fence)....Anyone laying out cash on the net should do a little due diligence and make sure of who/what they are dealing with. Anyone who had looked into MLS would have learned that he has a long history of complaints about delays, vaporware, etc.
Apparently he learned little from PT. If he won't or can't change, it is up to the consumer to either shop elsewhere or live with the hassle......
Again, he always comports himself in a professional manner and seems to be a genuinely good guy.
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I'm sure a lot of us here will return to AV123 when the forum is back up and running, at least for curiosity's sake. I remember a comment that MLS made in the past year. He said that most of the old timers were gone. He was alluding to past forum members that had stopped posting at AV123. I think that is sort of a natural progression with these forums. People drop off for whatever reason and new ones take their place. And I know that's what AV123 counts on for their business.
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Care to elaborate about the cow reference for those of us not from cow country?
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Damnit!, like I trainwreck, I tried to drive by this without looking, but just couldn't help it!
Anyone remember a little company called Perpetual Technologies?
Anyone remember the promises? The delays? The non-delivery? The excuses? The apologies? The health problems? DEJA VU???!!
MLS was a gentleman then too....Still is. He hasn't changed.
Anyone doing business with MLS is as much to blame for the problems, disappointments, etc., as MLS is himself. As my Mother use to say, "it only takes a cow once" (electric fence)....Anyone laying out cash on the net should do a little due diligence and make sure of who/what they are dealing with. Anyone who had looked into MLS would have learned that he has a long history of complaints about delays, vaporware, etc.
Apparently he learned little from PT. If he won't or can't change, it is up to the consumer to either shop elsewhere or live with the hassle......
Again, he always comports himself in a professional manner and seems to be a genuinely good guy.
And there's always a troll lurking...
I think this whole forum shutdown is absolutely WRONG, but I still have several thousand dollars in av123 (and Perpetual Technology) equipment as do thousands of other people. Very good stuff bought at great prices and for me (and for the majority of av123 customers), delivered on time when promised.
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"Only takes a cow once", meaning, if they lick an electric fence once, they learn their lesson and don't do it again.....
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And there's always a troll lurking...
I think this whole forum shutdown is absolutely WRONG, but I still have several thousand dollars in av123 (and Perpetual Technology) equipment as do thousands of other people. Very good stuff bought at great prices and for me (and for the majority of av123 customers), delivered on time when promised.
[/quote]
Troll? I guess that's what you call it when someone brings up something you would rather not hear, Mr. Several Thousand Dollars.....
Here's an excerpt from a Stereo Times article:
Digital Processors
Perpetual Technologies P-1A D/D & P-3A D/A processors
By Robert Deutsch • January, 2001
At the Consumer Electronics show in Las Vegas in January 1999, Mark Schifter, erstwhile president of Audio Alchemy, was handing out a press release announcing what seemed like a groundbreaking product from his new company, Perpetual Technologies. The product was the P-1A, a digital-to-digital processor that would do resolution enhancement, loudspeaker correction (amplitude and phase), and room correction—all for less than $1k. It sounded too good to be true.
perpp1a.jpgFour months later, at HI-FI '99, PT actually had a working prototype of the P-1A, and gave an impressive demonstration of its speaker-correction function with the Vandersteen 2Ce. I was told that I'd be getting a review sample as soon as production began, just a few weeks later.
Weeks passed, then months, but still no P-1A. I was starting to think that it might be an example of "vaporware," existing only as a concept and a prototype. However, Mark Schifter continually reassured me that the P-1A was very much a real product, and that the delays in production were caused by revisions in the design to incorporate the latest generation of DSP chips, and to build in more power to do the job even better. PT was also about to introduce a companion piece, the P-3A digital processor, which would do the basic D/A conversion. When would these products be ready? Soon, very soon—maybe just a couple of weeks.
Finally, more than 18 months after the initial product announcement, the P-1A and P-3A review samples appeared on my doorstep. The loudspeaker/room-correction software is still not ready for release (the prototype software was 16-bit; it's being rewritten to take advantage of the P-1A's 24-bit capability), but the resolution enhancement is said to be far better than the original prototype's..."
Sound familiar???
So how's that room and speaker correction working out for you and your P-1A? Delivered on time and when promised was it??? Guess I must have missed it-maybe I got rid of mine too early when I sold it back in 2005 after waiting 5 years.....
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I started feeling uncomfortable when the endless stream of speaker names and renderings started appearing. I mean, how many speakers can you manufacture, and how many price points can you fill? It would have been nice to have a few price tiers, say "Budget", "Midline", and "High End". Then have a complete package (center, surrounds, subs) built around them. Unless you're strictly 2-channel, most people want a complete HT option. Look at the number of people who want Mini surrounds, Ref centers, LS centers, etc. Even custom guys like Salk recognize this. Just a thought.
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I really, REALLY hope Mark doesn't "screw the pooch" with this whole forum thing. I find it bewildering, all the weirdness. I opened a thread at AVS asking what the deal was, only to return and find it missing. I opened a second thread asking where the first one went, and it too was deleted, followed by a stern warning from the head honcho to cease and desist. Wazzup with all this? It's like AV123 has ceased to exist, and no one can talk about it, very Orwellian! Glad I stumbled onto this place, so far it seems pretty cool.
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Pretty twilight zoney to me.
The only reason I will go back is because I sold somebody a sub on the premise it would be upgradeable and that appears to have been a lie now...kinda painful when you are not the kind of person who can eat $500 for the heck of it. :icon_twisted:
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Troll? I guess that's what you call it when someone brings up something you would rather not hear, Mr. Several Thousand Dollars.....
Here's an excerpt from a Stereo Times article:
(article)
Sound familiar???
So how's that room and speaker correction working out for you and your P-1A? Delivered on time and when promised was it???
I wasn't around to purchase the Ptech stuff new.
A distinction should be made between purchasing released, finished products vs. "in development" products. Mark DOES annouce products way too soon in the development process and it gets him in trouble. Most other co's don't do this.
The speaker correction works great. Both the P1A and P3A work great.
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That's why DRL is here. He's part of the Twilight Zone over there. It'll be any day now.......right DRL?
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Wow - the trolls have found this place too.
Welcome to steveo, jive, etc.
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I started feeling uncomfortable when the endless stream of speaker names and renderings started appearing. I mean, how many speakers can you manufacture, and how many price points can you fill? It would have been nice to have a few price tiers, say "Budget", "Midline", and "High End". Then have a complete package (center, surrounds, subs) built around them. Unless you're strictly 2-channel, most people want a complete HT option. Look at the number of people who want Mini surrounds, Ref centers, LS centers, etc. Even custom guys like Salk recognize this. Just a thought.
I agree with this 100%. Mark and Co. make some fine speakers, but the lines did become confusing and overlapping. The Rockets actually started to be less expensive than the X-Statik/X-Voce, due to the Cali screwup. And yes, all speakers need matching centers and surrounds, unless they are marketed as 2 channel limited. The Minis and LS series have no centers, and the Rocket surrounds have apparently been discontinued. All that seems left are rear ported monopoles, which aren't really ideal. Fix the product mix, work on QC, deliver when promised, and the Co. should be fine. I'm hoping for the best, but this whole forum closed thing seems pretty whacky, we shall see.........
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With all due respect to you Daryl RL, you're still singin' the same ole song and that is why the AV123 forum has gotten so bad.
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Nice to see some folks from AV123 here. Hopefully more open discussion allowed than over at Tweak or AVS.
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One other thought, from all I've read maybe Mark should withdraw from the subwoofer market. I can't remember a sub he came out with that wasn't the subject of numerous issues.
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Wow.. cool to see many of the regulars over here. I dropped by early yesterday and there was no activity so I went over to TCA. Won't be going back over there again ...after that thread delete and as well as things recently referenced in this thread...yikes.
BTW... I hope this all works out for MLS... he seems to have the best intentions.
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+1!
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Nice to see some folks from AV123 here. Hopefully more open discussion allowed than over at Tweak or AVS.
There should be more discussion allowed here, and it is good to see some of the familiar names posting. But let's not ruin it by bringing the same types of arguments over to AC. It only creates a negative atmosphere for everyone, including those who don't own any AV123 products and who have been posting here for a long time.
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Nice to see some folks from AV123 here. Hopefully more open discussion allowed than over at Tweak or AVS.
AVS has a bizarre set of rules, you never know when you're violating them. One thread says no Costco talk, yet you can mention any other store. Other threads say no price talk, yet still others have "Best price found" type posts. I just found out that you can't talk about another forum on their forum, hmm, "forum envy"...? I've been a member there for awhile, it's a great source of info, but the contradictory rules and enforcement by the mods leaves me scratching my head. As far as Tweak City, I always thought they were "AV123-lite". Most all the posters seem familiar, but I didn't know Craigsub was deleting posts as well. Too bad, what's the big secret I wonder?
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Hi all fellow av123 refugees...I don't feel quite so alone over here now. Been lurking about for a year or 2.... you'll like this site I think. Very knowledgeable and helpful members, and while it's way bigger waters to swim in than av123 with a very different feel, if you want to talk and learn about audio you're in a good place.
mike (northernlite)
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[\quote]
I wasn't around to purchase the Ptech stuff new.
A distinction should be made between purchasing released, finished products vs. "in development" products. Mark DOES annouce products way too soon in the development process and it gets him in trouble. Most other co's don't do this.
The speaker correction works great. Both the P1A and P3A work great.
[/quote]
If you had been around and followed that drama for oh, say, 5 years, you would know what I am talking about deja vu all over again....
"In development products" are what gets MLS in trouble time and again. My comments were addressing those unhappy with the current problems-that they are nothing new. They were not addressed to the happy customers such as yourself, so if there is a troll in the room, it is you....
Glad to hear the speaker correction works great. When was it released and how many speakers are supported? Do you have to rent the kit to measure or send your speakers in? How many corrections are they offering now and what do they cost? The whole arrangement changed so many times I lost count...
Oh, and are you still waiting on the promised room correction? I am sure it will be released any day now...
Again, none of this is new. It is the de facto MLS business model. And when things get too hot, MLS will release a public statement that will follow this script:
1. Accept all the blame and apologize profusely
2. Mention all the supplier, production, personnel, personal, and health issues they are dealing with
3. Mention all the satisfied customers and how committed they are to making things right
4. Ask for patience
5. Promise to straighten things out.
Saw this time and again with the PT over the 5-6 years I followed it.
Again, MLS is not a bad guy, maybe just a bad business operator.....
Sincerely hope this works out for everyone....
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With all due respect to you Daryl RL, you're still singin' the same ole song and that is why the AV123 forum has gotten so bad.
The forum is a reflection of the issues faced by the company and there have been many problems this year. Fix those problems and most of the forum problems go away. The forum shutdown makes no sense to me; hopefully whatever else Mark has planned will work.
The forum is also representative of the people that make up the community, and there have been some real a__holes doing their best to make things as negative as possible. I'm not talking about the customers with legitmate problems. I'm talking about people that don't have anything on order and maybe don't even own any av123 products.
As far as me singin' the same song steveo, I'm essentially just a LOT more optimistic than you. I guess I'm a "glass is half full" person, while you are a "glass is half empty, glass is cracked and leaking all over the table" person.
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Just to clarify, I'm considering the new PC13-Ultra. Do you have that one or the earlier PC-Ultra model I've read about?
It is the previous generation (TV-12 Ultra Driver I believe). I have not heard the new PB-13 based subs and I have been happy enough with mine that I have not spent much time researching the difference. I know that there was supposed to be a definate performance boost, unfortunately I'm not in a position to offer any solid info...
I do remember that their customer service was excellent and everything arrived on time and without any damage - sounds like you have a dilemma on your hands :thumb:
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If you had been around and followed that drama for oh, say, 5 years, you would know what I am talking about deja vu all over again....
"In development products" are what gets MLS in trouble time and again. My comments were addressing those unhappy with the current problems-that they are nothing new. They were not addressed to the happy customers such as yourself, so if there is a troll in the room, it is you....
Glad to hear the speaker correction works great. When was it released and how many speakers are supported? Do you have to rent the kit to measure or send your speakers in? How many corrections are they offering now and what do they cost? The whole arrangement changed so many times I lost count...
Oh, and are you still waiting on the promised room correction? I am sure it will be released any day now...
Again, none of this is new. It is the de facto MLS business model. And when things get too hot, MLS will release a public statement that will follow this script:
1. Accept all the blame and apologize profusely
2. Mention all the supplier, production, personnel, personal, and health issues they are dealing with
3. Mention all the satisfied customers and how committed they are to making things right
4. Ask for patience
5. Promise to straighten things out.
Saw this time and again with the PT over the 5-6 years I followed it.
Again, MLS is not a bad guy, maybe just a bad business operator.....
Sincerely hope this works out for everyone....
I (sort of) apologize for the troll comment.
Essentially I think your original post and even the one above are a little over the top based on that one product line (which evidently and not suprisingly has quite a long and involved story of everything that went wrong). I was trying to point out that there are a whole lot of people out there listening to products purchased from Mark and his companies that are very happy with the equipment and the overall experience.
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I (sort of) apologize for the troll comment.
Essentially I think your original post and even the one above are a little over the top based on that one product line (which evidently and not suprisingly has quite a long and involved story of everything that went wrong). I was trying to point out that there are a whole lot of people out there listening to products purchased from Mark and his companies that are very happy with the equipment and the overall experience.
Thank you - even though I don't think that the troll comment was addressed at me specifically, it was an unfortunate generality thrown out there. If you look at all the posts here since the "great closing", you will see that the VAST majority are from long-time AV123 members and supporters. I just haven't seen anything (or very little) in the way of personal attacks, abusive or derogatory statements, or malicious posts. Just people trying to get a handle on what happened and why...
As long as it's just discussion and not an attack, I don't see why we can't all play nice. After all, if everyone agreed completely, what need would we have for forums for discussion? If it does start to get ugly, then one message to JohnR will solve the problem. I've actually been thinking that it may not be a bad idea to start a dedicated "Exile's" thread somewhere so that we can continue our discussions (AV123 and other) somewhere other than the AV123 Circle - thoughts?
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Thank you - even though I don't think that the troll comment was addressed at me specifically, it was an unfortunate generality thrown out there. If you look at all the posts here since the "great closing", you will see that the VAST majority are from long-time AV123 members and supporters. I just haven't seen anything (or very little) in the way of personal attacks, abusive or derogatory statements, or malicious posts. Just people trying to get a handle on what happened and why...
As long as it's just discussion and not an attack, I don't see why we can't all play nice. After all, if everyone agreed completely, what need would we have for forums for discussion? If it does start to get ugly, then one message to JohnR will solve the problem. I've actually been thinking that it may not be a bad idea to start a dedicated "Exile's" thread somewhere so that we can continue our discussions (AV123 and other) somewhere other than the AV123 Circle - thoughts?
Good idea. We can't get it closed down if we locate it somewhere else. I vote for Industry Talk, since that seems the most appropriate. I'd start the thread, but I want to get feedback from more frequent posters on AC that this would be the most appropriate place.
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Do it! Call the thread "Elba".
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I'd also like to find a way to either move or copy the posts from the last few days so that we don't lose what has already been discussed (AV123 and other). Not knowing the most appropriate place was my stumbling block as well...
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Thank you - even though I don't think that the troll comment was addressed at me specifically, it was an unfortunate generality thrown out there. If you look at all the posts here since the "great closing", you will see that the VAST majority are from long-time AV123 members and supporters. I just haven't seen anything (or very little) in the way of personal attacks, abusive or derogatory statements, or malicious posts. Just people trying to get a handle on what happened and why...
As long as it's just discussion and not an attack, I don't see why we can't all play nice. After all, if everyone agreed completely, what need would we have for forums for discussion? If it does start to get ugly, then one message to JohnR will solve the problem. I've actually been thinking that it may not be a bad idea to start a dedicated "Exile's" thread somewhere so that we can continue our discussions (AV123 and other) somewhere other than the AV123 Circle - thoughts?
Good idea. We can't get it closed down if we locate it somewhere else. I vote for Industry Talk, since that seems the most appropriate. I'd start the thread, but I want to get feedback from more frequent posters on AC that this would be the most appropriate place.
Guys,
Audio Central would be the proper place to start the thread, not Industry Talk. That section is for the actual vendors, not to talk about a specific one.
George
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Thank you - even though I don't think that the troll comment was addressed at me specifically, it was an unfortunate generality thrown out there. If you look at all the posts here since the "great closing", you will see that the VAST majority are from long-time AV123 members and supporters. I just haven't seen anything (or very little) in the way of personal attacks, abusive or derogatory statements, or malicious posts. Just people trying to get a handle on what happened and why...
As long as it's just discussion and not an attack, I don't see why we can't all play nice. After all, if everyone agreed completely, what need would we have for forums for discussion? If it does start to get ugly, then one message to JohnR will solve the problem. I've actually been thinking that it may not be a bad idea to start a dedicated "Exile's" thread somewhere so that we can continue our discussions (AV123 and other) somewhere other than the AV123 Circle - thoughts?
Good idea. We can't get it closed down if we locate it somewhere else. I vote for Industry Talk, since that seems the most appropriate. I'd start the thread, but I want to get feedback from more frequent posters on AC that this would be the most appropriate place.
Guys,
Audio Central would be the proper place to start the thread, not Industry Talk. That section is for the actual vendors, not to talk about a specific one.
George
Not sure who the moderator is for the "Manufacturer's Mall" but that person should be able to split this from the Forum Closed point forward...
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"I (sort of) apologize for the troll comment."
Then I guess I (sort of) accept your apology....
"Essentially I think your original post and even the one above are a little over the top based on that one product line (which evidently and not suprisingly has quite a long and involved story of everything that went wrong). I was trying to point out that there are a whole lot of people out there listening to products purchased from Mark and his companies that are very happy with the equipment and the overall experience."
Perhaps, but there are a lot of people with a lot of residual angst over the PT thing and it is quite frustrating to see more of the (nearly?) same thing all over again....
No doubt there are happy customers. Happy for them. That doesn't cancel out those less fortunate nor make bad business practices ok.
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I see nothing troll like about anyone's behavior yet. I think too often we explain opinions we don't agree with as trollish. Everyone has had valid points and I have been feeling lately over at AV123 only the extremely pro MLS posters were welcome even though we were told otherwise. Its nice to see an honest discussion between long time forum members without fear of being cast off as malcontents, jealous, part of the problem, or trolls.
I think there are a lot of things (in fact, most everything) can be learned from history and the PT experience is a valid example. How long have people been waiting for fixed UFW-12's? Coming up on 3 years now. How long do we generally wait for missed updates that were promised? I think all of these things should be examined and not swept under the rug as just Mark talking about pre-production products. Great discussion so far. Lets keep this thing on track gentlemen.
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Do it! Call the thread "Elba".
Hey Dean, you read too much!
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I see nothing troll like about anyone's behavior yet. I think too often we explain opinions we don't agree with as trollish. Everyone has had valid points and I have been feeling lately over at AV123 only the extremely pro MLS posters were welcome even though we were told otherwise. Its nice to see an honest discussion between long time forum members without fear of being cast off as malcontents, jealous, part of the problem, or trolls.
I think there are a lot of things (in fact, most everything) can be learned from history and the PT experience is a valid example. How long have people been waiting for fixed UFW-12's? Coming up on 3 years now. How long do we generally wait for missed updates that were promised? I think all of these things should be examined and not swept under the rug as just Mark talking about pre-production products. Great discussion so far. Lets keep this thing on track gentlemen.
+1
I enjoyed your posts (along with a few others) over at tweak city...
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Do it! Call the thread "Elba".
Hey Dean, you read too much!
I think the last thing we need around here are a bunch of guys with Napolean complexes... :lol:
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Well it would guarantee at least 110,000 potential customers...the wait could be unbearable. :icon_twisted:
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there are a whole lot of people out there listening to products purchased from Mark and his companies that are very happy with the equipment and the overall experience.
very true, but.... it has become a situation where you now have to very carefully dodge the landmines. with production delays, vendor issues, shipping delays, currency fluctuations, CNY... you name it... it's become increasingly difficult to just buy an on time-trouble free AV123 product.
surprisingly the PT/SOCS combo has been one of the easiest products for me. Granted I purchased it used in Dec. 2004 (five years after the prototype) and then had SOCS for sig 750s installed in Jan 2005 and it just works. so as a product purchase/experience I'm happy.... but perhaps i just got lucky. I know EVERY other AV123 speaker/sub I have was delayed 2-10 months with a string of 'excuses'.
... and YES (full disclosure) I have received free GTG raffle speaker prizes from AV123 and enjoy them daily. I also paid full retail prices in 2002 for a 5.0 system (750/550/200) + risers + subs before any Santa sales existed.
mls great guy, bad businessman - agreed
AV123 speakers - great value & SQ - agreed
Electronics - big risk IMO - except PT, won't go there
all the rest is FUBAR IMO
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And for DRL, it's easy to fling the name troll around here. Daryl, we have about the same amount of posts here, so we start off equal. Please stop with the Troll comments. It gets old.
Your last post seemed reasonable and I'm reasonable too. You know why I don't have any respect for AV123. And in my case, I've been right about that. You're obviously much more patient and enjoy their products, but you have to admit they've gone south of the border lately.
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but you have to admit they've gone south of the border lately.
Without question!
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And for DRL, it's easy to fling the name troll around here. Daryl, we have about the same amount of posts here, so we start off equal. Please stop with the Troll comments. It gets old.
Your last post seemed reasonable and I'm reasonable too. You know why I don't have any respect for AV123. And in my case, I've been right about that. You're obviously much more patient and enjoy their products, but you have to admit they've gone south of the border lately.
You know, I think that by and large the people in this thread mostly wish well on av123 and MLS and have a certain respect for the man and enthusiasm for the products. We are collectively curious about the problems over at av123. I think you might not be in the right company to say things like "I don't have any respect for AV123". You might have valid reasons to say this but why pick a fight with us? We are not av123. Personally my experience has been mostly positive.
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I was making that point to DRL, not the rest of the posters here. I thought that obvious. You've had some pointed criticisms of AV123 yourself Django and I wouldn't criticize you for saying it either.
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"I don't have any respect for AV123".
Not the OP to this, but for me I'd say I just don't have anymore 'confidence' in AV123.
I made some personal buying rules a few years ago
- no Pre-pay
- No pre-orders of development products.
- No ordering unless a product is in stock and ready to ship
- No Cali products....
this is really the only way to avoid drama/excuse/disappointments IMO.
The exception to this was a warranty exchange for a dead UFW for an MFW-15 that I waited 10 months for.
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"I don't have any respect for AV123".
Not the OP to this, but for me I'd say I just don't have anymore 'confidence' in AV123.
I made some personal buying rules a few years ago
- no Pre-pay
- No pre-orders of development products.
- No ordering unless a product is in stock and ready to ship
- No Cali products....
this is really the only way to avoid drama/excuse/disappointments IMO.
The exception to this was a warranty exchange for a dead UFW for an MFW-15 that I waited 10 months for.
Good points Rich. I wish I was offered the trade in deal. Waiting 10 months is better than 3 years. Maybe it was a public offer and I just missed it. I would have jumped at that in a heart beat. :duh: Oh well, I am sure the HR will be tremendous, I just hope I don't need to wait much longer...
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I was making that point to DRL, not the rest of the posters here. I thought that obvious. You've had some pointed criticisms of AV123 yourself Django and I wouldn't criticize you for saying it either.
Indeed it was obvious. Perhaps it is not so much your criticisms but the tone of them and the person you are directing them at. You two seem to know each other and have issues. I don't want to take sides. I just wasn't looking forward to an argument. And if you say you don't have any respect for av123 I just get the feeling that your contribution might not be conducive to the tone I was hoping to see here. This isn't my forum so do as you please... :|
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- No Cali products....
Mine if I ask why? I would be lying if I didn't say I was a bit disappointed in the X-SLS speakers my wife won but they are not terrible. I was concerned when ordering the X-Statik and VOCE but heard them first hand and knew they sounded very good. I was not disappointed with this purchase at all. The wait for them was agonizing but in fairness to AV123 I threw a couple Black Friday subs in the mix and was the cause of my own delay.
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Yeah, I'm going to get the X-Head v2 soon. Right? :D
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Good points Rich. I wish I was offered the trade in deal. Waiting 10 months is better than 3 years. Maybe it was a public offer and I just missed it. I would have jumped at that in a heart beat. :duh: Oh well, I am sure the HR will be tremendous, I just hope I don't need to wait much longer...
It wasn't public as far as I know - and I have been watching for UFW-12 news pretty much non-stop. That's the one truly disappointing product that I have purchased and the lack of results on top of the YEARS worth of excuses and delays have done more to erode my confidence in the company than almost anything else. Promises and good intentions just aren't cutting it anymore - this has supposedly been a "top priority" for YEARS. If it really is a priority then show me - don't tell me...
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My guess would be all the quality control issues with Cali. I have ordered my parents a full set of X-MTM, X-CS, and four X-LS's for their new house being built that have been sitting in their basement unopened and I fear opening them and seeing bent grills or something worse. I have been using their two (feetless) MFW-15's while waiting for my UFW-12's to get repaired and as of last week one of the MFW's just started humming for no reason. I know the fix but I am not looking forward to removing the amp and doing what I feel should have been done in the first place. I realize everybody makes mistakes and I have had issues with Outlaw, SVS and Emotiva that were all taken care of in a fast and efficient manner, but they just seem to be piling up at AV123 with no end in sight.
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agreed
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"No Cali Products" was on my personal "No" list as well. Just common sense - take a company with known production/delivery issues, add in a new factory, all new personnel, all new designs, etc. and it's just a formula for potential disaster. I'm not saying that all of the products are flawed (some seem quite nice) and I have been on the edge of ordering more than once but just couldn't pull the trigger. Designs kept changing, finishes kept changing, QC issues, just too much up in the air...
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Well FWIW the only issue I've had is a couple bad post mounts for the grills and fortunately this is something I can replace here relatively easily.
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That's made it so difficult - lots of people have had great luck with the Cali products. I just didn't have the personal comfort level that I felt I needed...
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Now that I am out of the umbrella I can disclose this.
My only Cali product is an MFW-15 which I bought because I had a 2fer deal and my UFW-12 was such an utter disappointment.
The MFW-15 that I picked for myself (random box opening) had the following issues:
Extreme hum even on the dedicated outlet (UFW-12 hummed on an aux. outlet as well and was moved next to the rack on a 20a dedicated that I installed for theater components).
One push-in nut pushed out by the faceplate bolt (found resting on the magnet).
A misaligned pole piece on the woofer (av123 sent a replacement).
1 1/2" screw holding woofer in and 7 1".
No seal between the amp/controls/sub box which could cause extreme air leak issues (the "stick a sock in it" problem discovered by me on another customers sub).
A thin layer of owen's corning type insulation inside the box (my opinion is that fiberglass would be a very bad idea for a moving object to get lodged in it).
A hot hot amp.
I fixed all of these problems myself and part of that included buying a $60 hum suppressor bringing my cost of the product up.
Of all the other stuff I owned from them (3 X-cs, 4 X-ls, X-sub, SP3, CD-5, Rocket 760, Bigfoot, Ref .5 x5 (3 for parents) I have only had one other issue (bad driver on 760). That stuff is all China and the issues with one Cali product almost outnumber the total China stuff I own.
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hmm well admittedly I haven't opened mine up...hopefully I won't have to.
It seems to me that over the last couple of years there has been a emphasis to move more and more manufacturing to Cali as opposed to China. China still makes the Rockets but nearly every new product seems to come from Cali. Aside from the QC items you guys mention it seems overall the Cali facility has been a bust. Bad cost estimating and production issues alone would seem to be a good indicator that moving more manufacturing there is not a good idea but never the less it seems they continue to pile on new products.
With all the events in the world....the dollar value in Cali for example it almost seems like perhaps it would be a good idea to find another manufacturing partner and stop the bleeding.
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I've had very good success with av123 products and customer service, though I've occasionally had to work a bit to get calls returned, emails answered etc. But that wasn't a big deal to me. The ongoing HR for the 12 is, well, frustrating. But overall I don't have the complaints many others do.
I also purposely chose to avoid Cali products until they had some time to prove themselves.
I certainly believe they try very hard, and work very hard, to satisfy us....their heart's in the right place.
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Has anyone ever noticed when Chacruz is posting on the Forum that it seems quite coordinated when MLS is on. Chacruz's comments are also very similar to MLS's writing nature, only with a Columbian accent. Could it be possible that they are one in the ...............?
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The UFW/MFW exchange was not 1:1.... I paid cash + UFW for the MFW to settle the warranty claim. Mark was very generous with this offer and I stuck it out for the duration. Except for a hum issue (which I fixed with a $40 isolator) the sub does work as advertised IMO, but the wait was painful.
The No Cali rule is mostly due to all the veneer issues, constantly changing grills/no grills, plant moves shipping delays, etc. I specifically went with a SB MFW 15 to avoid any possible veneer problems.
Also, I have a friend with a 5.0 X systems and they all have veneer issues. At best these are B-stock and he waited over a year for A stock X-MTM's. He's to polite to make a warranty claim and they don't even make the same speakers now. I recommended he buy the X speakers, so I feel somewhat responsible for this and have not recommend another AV123 product since.
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"No Cali Products" was on my personal "No" list as well. Just common sense - take a company with known production/delivery issues, add in a new factory, all new personnel, all new designs, etc. and it's just a formula for potential disaster. I'm not saying that all of the products are flawed (some seem quite nice) and I have been on the edge of ordering more than once but just couldn't pull the trigger. Designs kept changing, finishes kept changing, QC issues, just too much up in the air...
Which products are produced in Cali?
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"No Cali Products" was on my personal "No" list as well. Just common sense - take a company with known production/delivery issues, add in a new factory, all new personnel, all new designs, etc. and it's just a formula for potential disaster. I'm not saying that all of the products are flawed (some seem quite nice) and I have been on the edge of ordering more than once but just couldn't pull the trigger. Designs kept changing, finishes kept changing, QC issues, just too much up in the air...
Which products are produced in Cali?
All X speakers (with the exception of early China runs) + MFW subs (except Rosewood China cabs)
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oops, I just purchased a second MFW-15!
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Has anyone ever noticed when Chacruz is posting on the Forum that it seems quite coordinated when MLS is on. Chacruz's comments are also very similar to MLS's writing nature, only with a Columbian accent. Could it be possible that they are one in the ...............?
WOW...I want to try some of whatever you took to come up with that comment! aa
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This is roughly the same reply I posted at AVS before the thread was deleted. I don't own any AV123 products. I do have an Ascend/Hsu setup which is currently boxed up and for sale, but I'm not bashing one and praising another. My only dealings with them came when my parents asked my opinion on a modest living room setup for them. Upon my recommendation, they purchased a 47" Vizio TV, a Panasonic XR-57 receiver, some in-ceiling surrounds from HTD, and 2 X-LS's, 1 X-CS, and an X-Sub. I recommended AV123 due to their beautiful veneers and positive comments. Since all veneers were heavily backordered at the time, my Dad ended up getting the satin black ones that were supposed to be in stock. After several delays and e-mails from him, they got their speakers. I noticed on the forums that some had tweeter issues or low sub volume issues, but theirs seemed to be OK. Every time I talked to them, I had to hear about how they had not gotten their speakers yet. This left a bad taste in their mouth and kind of made me aggravated since I'm the one that suggested them. I have no doubt MLS is a good guy. I've lurked on their forum for a while now and have seen the comments posted by him and others. I really hope they get it together, and would have ordered some speakers for myself since their looks can't be beat for the price, but with all the issues lately and my limited vicarious experience, I'll have to pass.
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Has anyone ever noticed when Chacruz is posting on the Forum that it seems quite coordinated when MLS is on. Chacruz's comments are also very similar to MLS's writing nature, only with a Columbian accent. Could it be possible that they are one in the ...............?
Too bad this forum doesn't have the "um... No" smiley.
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Try this one ::shake:
Anyone notice Mark wishing us Happy Holidays on his little note over at av123? Is there some American holiday I don't know about? Or does he mean Christmas? That's a long way off...
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I was kind of expecting the forum to reopen today, 48 hours or so since it closed or maybe they will wait until they have all hands on deck to support any new rules.
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I was kind of expecting the forum to reopen today, 48 hours or so since it closed or maybe they will wait until they have all hands on deck to support any new rules.
As noted above, considering the happy holidays part it could be a while. Also considering we're talking about AV123, promise 48hrs deliver in 48 weeks sounds closer to reality, lol. And yes I know there was no "promise" posted there this time, so maybe progress has already started. ;)
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I don't like the tone here. Django could you speak to this. And as far as MLS delivering on a date for his next letter, you might as well be pi__ing in the wind.
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I don't know how to remove this post so it has been edited to almost nothing :thumb:
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I'm surprised you're even married.
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Folks: kindly cease and desist on the personal snubs.
Thanks
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Will do.
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I am starting to think the name itself is poison, anywhere it is mention causes strife and issues. Ugh.
I'll be in the lab if anyone needs me.
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Folks: kindly cease and desist on the personal snubs.
Thanks
For those who may not be paying attention closely, JohnR owns the whole bar here ...
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Folks: kindly cease and desist on the personal snubs.
Thanks
I can't see how to delete my post. Please feel free to.
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Folks: kindly cease and desist on the personal snubs.
Thanks
For those who may not be paying attention closely, JohnR owns the whole bar here ...
Ummm ... did someone mention booze? Tanqueray and Tonic ... oh yeah double lime please! aa
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I am starting to think the name itself is poison, anywhere it is mention causes strife and issues. Ugh.
I'll be in the lab if anyone needs me.
I think the issue is really one of internal conflict a lot of us face. To a person, it seems, everyone who has met or spoken to mls thinks the world of him. They want him and his company to succeed. They also really like the value equation he offers. Great looks, great sound, modest price. The various issues bump up against all that, and create emotional responses. If the issues existed at a company without a compelling leader like mls, and without high value product, I don't think we'd be discussing this at all because that compay would have been history long ago. As it is, it seems like 70 to 80% of us kind of ebb and flow in our attitudes towards this stuff. A smaller percentage of folks stay loyal or stay annoyed all the time. Thus the stage is set for conflict.
Someone (mfine?) said "fix the issues with deliveries, QC, etc., and the forum issues will go away" (heavily paraphrased). No truer words have been spoken.
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I am starting to think the name itself is poison, anywhere it is mention causes strife and issues. Ugh.
I'll be in the lab if anyone needs me.
I think the issue is really one of internal conflict a lot of us face. To a person, it seems, everyone who has met or spoken to mls thinks the world of him. They want him and his company to succeed. They also really like the value equation he offers. Great looks, great sound, modest price. The various issues bump up against all that, and create emotional responses. If the issues existed at a company without a compelling leader like mls, and without high value product, I don't think we'd be discussing this at all because that compay would have been history long ago. As it is, it seems like 70 to 80% of us kind of ebb and flow in our attitudes towards this stuff. A smaller percentage of folks stay loyal or stay annoyed all the time. Thus the stage is set for conflict.
Someone (mfine?) said "fix the issues with deliveries, QC, etc., and the forum issues will go away" (heavily paraphrased). No truer words have been spoken.
Good post. I think just about everyone except the loyalist of the loyal think that the issues are with the company, not the forum. The forum can use some tweaking but a total close down is just weird... I will still buy from av123 ( if the loony ever comes back ) because all the product I have purchased (with the exception of x-head) has been stupendous value...
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I don't believe that there would even be an AV123 today if not for the forum. Marks personality is what has enabled the company to grow, and the forum has been his way to communicate. Face it, would anyone place an order for a product, no matter how good the value, knowing it could take a year to receive it? Only Mark could pull that off, as he has proven many times already. Take away the forum and what's left, another ID speaker company. Imagine the field day they would have over on AVS if their was no AV123 forum. People would post over there about late deliveries, qc issues, etc., and the shite would hit the fan big time. Mark can sort things out on his own forum, and has done so. Things really fell apart, IMO, the first time Mark tried to take a break from posting. No matter how competent his staff is, they are not Mark, and can't do what he does. It will be interesting to see what he does next, but short of solving every issue his Co. has in a hurry, I think he really needs his forum. I know I miss it!
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Let me know when someone creates an AV123 refugee thread outside the Manufacturers Mall...
Once Mark begins to reply to every one of these posts, I suspect the open tone of this thread will change for the worse. It's really been quite refreshing to read some of these (mostly) respectful POVs without the blind loyalist slants.
... but perhaps it's time we move on (outside the MM)
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Or to say it another way before I was banned there, the forum is the life blood of their business.
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I haven't seen a post from Mark in this thread since he shut down the forum. Maybe he's through with the internet... :-)
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Let me know when someone creates an AV123 refugee thread outside the Manufacturers Mall...
Once Mark begins to reply to every one of these posts, I suspect the open tone of this thread will change for the worse. It's really been quite refreshing to read some of these (mostly) respectful POVs without the blind loyalist slants.
... but perhaps it's time we move on (outside the MM)
Well, now that he has shut down the forum he can't very well ban us can he :lol:?
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on AVS .... by CETA1
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093387&highlight=av123+forum
We will be back on line soon.
Hugs and Kisses,
MS...
We are fixing our BOM costs. So confusing..
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Last edited by CETA1; Today at 08:50 PM..
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on AVS .... by CETA1
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093387&highlight=av123+forum
We will be back on line soon.
Hugs and Kisses,
MS...
We are fixing our BOM costs. So confusing..
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Last edited by CETA1; Today at 08:50 PM..
Is this a joke?
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All those hugs over the years......now it's on to kisses.
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Hello refugees!
Where to start. Its been an interesting couple of weeks as I decided to start frequenting the forums more now that I ordered the Ninja elite encore upgrades for my x-SLS.
-Bad news started with the delay by not having the crossover boards when the tweeters arrived.
-Then finding out the x-LS was essentially discontinued; so much for having new LS surrounds one day.
-Then attempting to call and get an x-CS to try to at least have a matching front stage, never got past the answering machine, never got a call back. What a poor way to have a phone ordering system.
-So I keep up on the status of the encore upgrades via the av123 forum, which is now non-existent due to some odd reasons by MLS.
-But its not over. Tried to join over at TweakCity's forum. Maybe the products I would purchase one day, as budget and performance are a high priority. But no, my account I tried to register was removed with no reason than I didn't meet some mysterious requirements, which I've searched and can't find a reason why I'd be removed, other than some crackdown on spammers. Replied to the webmaster: acct removed email, still no response.
-On top of all that, I get the feeling the x-series as we all knew it is likely headed to the chopping block, that is the x-SLS, x-CS, and x-MTM.
I don't know how much longer I can hold out. The ninja upgrades I have on order were with the intent I'd go all x-series. With that in doubt, I feel like I should cancel the upgrades and look to offload my SLS for a 5.1 system I can actually build up to -which I feel bad for Sean- but I have no room or use to stay with 2.0 speakers. I really enjoy the SLS, and I think Mark is an incredible guy, but the issues with the company, the negative publicity of customer service issues (which one stated earlier are not always started by people who haven't tried to contact CS first), unkept promises, delays, etc, maybe I should find a different speaker company to do business with. I really hope I don't have to.
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Or to say it another way before I was banned there, the forum is the life blood of their business.
Bingo.
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-On top of all that, I get the feeling the x-series as we all knew it is likely headed to the chopping block, that is the x-SLS, x-CS, and x-MTM.
How many short lived speaker lines would that make for AV123 over the last 4-5 years?
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Let me know when someone creates an AV123 refugee thread outside the Manufacturers Mall...
Once Mark begins to reply to every one of these posts, I suspect the open tone of this thread will change for the worse. It's really been quite refreshing to read some of these (mostly) respectful POVs without the blind loyalist slants.
... but perhaps it's time we move on (outside the MM)
Wow, lots of negative stuff in this thread and this remark really cracks me up for obvious reasons.
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-On top of all that, I get the feeling the x-series as we all knew it is likely headed to the chopping block, that is the x-SLS, x-CS, and x-MTM.
How many short lived speaker lines would that make for AV123 over the last 4-5 years?
?? Should a company always remain stagnant?
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I think everyone gets it by now...
This thread continues to come perilously close to being like getting evicted from your home for the amount of garbage on your lawn then dragging all the same garbage to your new house in a new neighborhood...
Explore AC folks, give this stuff a rest or take it to PM and e-mail if you really just HAVE to discuss it...
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I think everyone gets it by now...
This thread continues to come perilously close to being like getting evicted from your home for the amount of garbage on your lawn then dragging all the same garbage to your new house in a new neighborhood...
Explore AC folks, give this stuff a rest or take it to PM and e-mail if you really just HAVE to discuss it...
Well put. Please, let's put it to rest for the time being.
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Gee, if only there was an internet forum devoted exclusively to AV123, then maybe everyone with an opinion could go there to have this discussion............
Oh yeah, I've been exploring the various circles, this IS a pretty cool place!
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-On top of all that, I get the feeling the x-series as we all knew it is likely headed to the chopping block, that is the x-SLS, x-CS, and x-MTM.
How many short lived speaker lines would that make for AV123 over the last 4-5 years?
?? Should a company always remain stagnant?
I would hope that a speaker company would think enough of their product to manufacture it for a year or two. They are speakers not computers or other high tech devices that would be obsolete with-in that time frame.
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I think everyone gets it by now...
This thread continues to come perilously close to being like getting evicted from your home for the amount of garbage on your lawn then dragging all the same garbage to your new house in a new neighborhood...
Explore AC folks, give this stuff a rest or take it to PM and e-mail if you really just HAVE to discuss it...
I'm not going to disagree with you but I would add something. What you said +It's like getting evicted from our home and being (politely) asked not to talk about it... even if we are beating a dead horse...
And ac is pretty interesting :wink:
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Wheres Jinx? :) I know that I haven't posted much over at AV123 but do have a really nice system (760's-250's-450's-BF) that was delivered on time as promised.
The one thing that irks me to no end though is Marks inability to ship in a timely manner in the FS section. I was just pm'ing a fellow that has waited 7 weeks for a pr of Minis that was promised to be shipped within a week. He stated after all the excuses that he was fed up and wanted his money back. Only thing is that Mark wasn't replying to his PMs, emails or phone calls. I know he has a lot on his plate but come on. I have a perfect feedback at Ebay and Heatware, (500+ total) and if I tried to pull that crap I would never have a buyer again.
Anyway that is a rant I needed to get off my chest. Nice to see everyone here and I hope that Mark can get everything sorted out.
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I feel ya django, and understand the frustration some guys are talking about, there's a lot to be frustrated with in this situation....but we both know there's no end to the "talking about it" it just keeps going around and around in a circle while the pro and con parties beat their chests, alternately rising and falling in temperature as either side gets aggravated or someone new runs in to pour some more gas on the fire...
I also encouraged those that want to talk about to do so, just offline...
I can also block this thread from appearing to me, guess that's another way to approach it...either way I'm not trying to squelch people's right to bitch, just offering a point of view from an AC regular who also frequented the av123 forums....
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I feel ya django, and understand the frustration some guys are talking about, there's a lot to be frustrated with in this situation....but we both know there's no end to the "talking about it" it just keeps going around and around in a circle while the pro and con parties beat their chests, alternately rising and falling in temperature as either side gets aggravated or someone new runs in to pour some more gas on the fire...
I also encouraged those that want to talk about to do so, just offline...
I can also block this thread from appearing to me, guess that's another way to approach it...either way I'm not trying to squelch people's right to bitch, just offering a point of view from an AC regular who also frequented the av123 forums....
If a social network is needed maybe they can set up a Facebook "AV123 Therapy" group . You can complain away there as anything goes :wink:
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I feel ya django, and understand the frustration some guys are talking about, there's a lot to be frustrated with in this situation....but we both know there's no end to the "talking about it" it just keeps going around and around in a circle while the pro and con parties beat their chests, alternately rising and falling in temperature as either side gets aggravated or someone new runs in to pour some more gas on the fire...
I also encouraged those that want to talk about to do so, just offline...
I can also block this thread from appearing to me, guess that's another way to approach it...either way I'm not trying to squelch people's right to bitch, just offering a point of view from an AC regular who also frequented the av123 forums....
If a social network is needed maybe they can set up a Facebook "AV123 Therapy" group . You can complain away there as anything goes :wink:
Good one Tom.... :lol:
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If a social network is needed maybe they can set up a Facebook "AV123 Therapy" group . You can complain away there as anything goes :wink:
Actually, I think there is (or was) a Facebook group set up for av123. Not sure if it has ever been used much though.
As for complaining, clearly some of the posts are just that. But I think most of us are honestly trying to understand the issues more than anything, and in doing so we tend to offer up things that we think need improvement. I ultimately think that Art's dirty laundry analogy is a good one though. No real sense in trying to re-create a tiny piece of the av123 forum here. Certainly lots to see and do here. I'm already adding toys to my list of things that I don't need and shouldn't purchase but probably will anyway.
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I found a guy in the Salk forum who's considering selling his HT3's! I would love to have a pair of those.
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Hello. :)
where am I ? ;)
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I agree that I don't want this to turn into an AV123 bashing. I still very much support and hope AV123 can regain their glory. I am just really frustrated with what has been going on there and waiting for my products to be fixed. I am glad we have a forum here (and I have been actively hanging out here the last few days; way better than AVS) where we can voice our frustration without the guilt trip of being accused of trying to hurt Mark's feelings. That is never my intent, but we all have feelings and the ones who blindly defend Mark's should be considerate of others as well, but more times than not they tend only to see Mark's point of view. We all have problems in our life. I have had my house completely burn down, watched my sister-in-law deliver a stillborn girl, dealt with the death of my Grandfather and lost two dogs in the last two years among other things. I am not saying that for pity, but to make the point that we all face challenges every day, whether it be your kids, parents, significant other, jobs, money, cars, disasters, etc. Personally, I feel I have given Mark a lot more respect than he has shown me over the last couple years, but the thing is, I still think he is a great guy. He may feel the exact opposite about who has shown who more respect, I don't know. I am sure he feels swamped and stressed, but we have all been there and some are right now. Given the circumstances, 3 subs that don't work for the last 2 1/2 years, another sub that requires "surgery", and continued missed promises, I don't know any other company I would be so patient with or supportive of and that is a testimony to what I think of Mark as a person. I do understand its just audio equipment, so I really think I have kept my anger in check. My frustration has less to do with Mark and AV123 then the two or three forum members that won't allow others to post their frustrations or troubles without getting a lecture about what a great guy Mark is and how we should be more sensitive to his needs. What about our needs? Do we not count? I am not asking for anything that wasn't promised to me over and over and over again. Like I said, I don't want this to turn into an AV123 bashing, I just want somewhere that I feel I can openly discuss my frustration with the situation, without being called out as some kind of bad person. Looking forward to letter #2.
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Good post Jed....I want them to succeed too and will continue to support them. Hopefully things will make a turn for the better soon.
This is really my first experience with AC and I can say I am quite impressed and have also spent a great deal of time here over the last few days. I feel more comfortable posting here than some forums.
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Well I thought that the forum would be up today...but not. So joined up...after lurking here for years...I think I joined up once when I was Santosha, couldn't can't recall my pass and the email addy changed...
I do look forward the "letter" and really just want to spend my GC already! :icon_lol:
Also looking at the other forums besides AC, AK, SH, AA, but av123's forum was cozy...at least in the past. never got into TCA...yeah av123 lite, maybe emotiva's
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AC is a nice forum - I've lurked here for years and finally signed up as I've been changing my handle over the net.
Not maybe as active as I would like, but there are a lot of the original AV123 members over here as they've moved on.
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hey guys,
i am here, just quietly lurking.
MLS is a good guy.
i think the forum downtime is a bad idea (for his buissness).
i hope things smooth out for him. i would hate to have to tell people about the ancient/extinct AV123 company that made my mini's as i get older.
shoutout to the ATL krew.
i got all ur #'s i believe we will have to get together over a brew soon
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Just got my order number from SVS. This is going to be a perfect match for my Rockets:
(http://www.svsound.com/pb13ultra_rosenut_grillon_basic.jpg)
(http://www.svsound.com/pb13ultra_rosenut_grilloff_basic.jpg)
Oh, and it ships this week :wink:
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I will still buy from av123 ( if the loony ever comes back ) because all the product I have purchased (with the exception of x-head) has been stupendous value...
I wont. The delays are one thing, but I wont purchase anything from a company if I think there's a better (worse?) than average chance I'll get a product that has QC/design problems. Air leaks, amp problems, hums, electronic problems, veneer problems, shipping damage problems. No thanks.
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SP,
You'll like that sub. I've had mine for about 6 months now.
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I guess time will tell as what MLS's plan was for shutting down the forum .
I for one used the forum for info on AV123 speakers before I bought them as well do many others .
1) Many people post there looking for local members to audition the speakers.
2) Many people use the forum for trouble shooting therir system when they put a system together.
It's not like going to your local Audio shop and asking for assitance.
The forum members are a very improtant tool for MLS so I'm sure it will be back up soon.
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I hope av123 forum comes up soon.
I need to show off my new HDTV :D in the "pics of your speakers" thread or somewhere...
This sucks ... i FINALLY get it, after like 2 yrs of research and jokes on the forum etc :) and get the pics ready, etc and av123 goes down... :(
sorry for sounding kinda selfish.
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Just saying hello. :D
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Go on man, post the pics here!
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Just saying hello, as well.
Jim C
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I hope av123 forum comes up soon.
I need to show off my new HDTV :D in the "pics of your speakers" thread or somewhere...
This sucks ... i FINALLY get it, after like 2 yrs of research and jokes on the forum etc :) and get the pics ready, etc and av123 goes down... :(
sorry for sounding kinda selfish.
Congrats Nishan..... actually I think your upgrade is significantly MORE important than the AV123 forum status :icon_lol:
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I saw that ship going down months ago and I jumped off with the swiftness. I regret ever purchasing items from the company. There are some amazing small business out there and I wish would have chosen more wisely which one I would have given my dollars to.
Like Perpetual Technologies and Audio Alchemy before that, AV123's days are numbered.
The funny thing is the very first item that I purchased as a entry into this hobby, was an Audio Alchemy DDS III. It died within a year and when it did, I found out that the company was out of business. It's like what Shirley Bassey said, it's all just History Repeating.
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Also looking at the other forums besides AC, AK, SH, AA, but av123's forum was cozy...at least in the past.
Cozy. That's a pretty accurate word to describe the forum.
I saw that ship going down months ago and I jumped off with the swiftness. I regret ever purchasing items from the company. There are some amazing small business out there and I wish would have chosen more wisely which one I would have given my dollars to.
Like Perpetual Technologies and Audio Alchemy before that, AV123's days are numbered.
While I was kicked off the ship a few weeks back and have had to go through my AV123 forum withdrawal (it really is like a drug), in most cases I don't regret buying their products. My Mini's and X-Omni's are terrific speakers, especially given their prices. So, while my enthusiasm for the company has waned, their products often speak for themselves.
As for the days being numbered, I hope not, but I'm curious to see what the future holds.
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Hey, everybody! I checked the forum again today with no love, so I saw everybody seemed to be hanging around here, and I've lurked around the GR-Research circle long enough. . . so. . . :)
For me, at least, I just hope I don't lose track of a lot of the great folks I've chatted with over at av123 in the past. The product may have got me in the door, but the people are what got me to hang around and make myself comfortable.
Just killing time in a hotel room in Chicago (in town on business for most of the week). I'm kind of bummed because I actually got pics (now sitting at home in WI, so I still can't share yet. . .) of the pair of GR-driver Rythmik subs I just got. I was ready to get them up for folks to see when the forum shut down. I didn't get a lot of listening in yet with the duals, but so far I'm very happy and the second one really started to bring that effortless bass I felt at Bob's GTG into my little room. :D
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I saw that ship going down months ago and I jumped off with the swiftness. I regret ever purchasing items from the company. There are some amazing small business out there and I wish would have chosen more wisely which one I would have given my dollars to.
Like Perpetual Technologies and Audio Alchemy before that, AV123's days are numbered.
The funny thing is the very first item that I purchased as a entry into this hobby, was an Audio Alchemy DDS III. It died within a year and when it did, I found out that the company was out of business. It's like what Shirley Bassey said, it's all just History Repeating.
I actually don't regret a single purchase I made at AV123, but then again I bought all my stuff almost four years ago, and all of it was from the China factory. Although I've owned better speakers in the past (my old 2-channel rig), my RS1K's that currently share music/HT duty have given me countless hours of enjoyment. They're actually pretty amazing considering the price paid. They'll be even better when I get the Ninja upgrades. The (original) UFW-10's that I just sold were fantastic for the money.
All that said, I had the chance today to buy again from AV123, but the MFW's just seem to have too many issues and I don't like having the door to "our house" (as it's been called) slammed in my face. To me the entire operation seems to be in question, especially since they're an ID company and this is Christmas season. This strangeness HAS to be costing them sales. It didn't look good, so I bought from SVS. Funny, I don't feel the least bit guilty 8)
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I'm wondering just how long Mark plans to keep his forum shut down. He runs the risk of alienating so many potential customers and old time friends, I just don't get it. How long do you think it will take to go through the various stages: surprise, concern, confusion, frustration, anger, and finally indifference. I myself am halfway between confusion and frustration, I really hope no one gets to indifference. Once people stop caring, they won't visit/buy. Not good...
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I think the recent, non-voluntary, multi-day outage of both the forum and the main website demonstrated that a few days without a forum isn't going to cause the company to take a huge hit or drive everyone away.
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I need to show off my new HDTV :D in the "pics of your speakers" thread or somewhere...
Cool Nish, go ahead and post it here in the Home Theater circle.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=60.0
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I'm wondering just how long Mark plans to keep his forum shut down. He runs the risk of alienating so many potential customers and old time friends, I just don't get it. How long do you think it will take to go through the various stages: surprise, concern, confusion, frustration, anger, and finally indifference. I myself am halfway between confusion and frustration, I really hope no one gets to indifference. Once people stop caring, they won't visit/buy. Not good...
Not very long :wink:
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I think the recent, non-voluntary, multi-day outage of both the forum and the main website demonstrated that a few days without a forum isn't going to cause the company to take a huge hit or drive everyone away.
That was involuntary, beyond anyone's control. This current shutdown has a purpose, one which wasn't made totally clear. With the former shutdown no one would really reach the anger stage, as it was accidental. i agree a few days isn't a big deal, that's why I was asking "how long". A week, two weeks, down till after New Years?
Ending his message with "Happy Holidays" didn't give me a warm fuzzy that the forum would be back up anytime soon.
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Not trying to 'jump to conclusions' here, but perhaps this is a mandated 'cool down' period for the forum. Things sure seem to have just gone off the rails over at AV123.
perhaps my theory of a mandated 'cool down' period was not too far fetched. :D
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Ending his message with "Happy Holidays" didn't give me a warm fuzzy ...
I'm not reading anything into that....
....to me Happy Holidays applies from TG to NY. that's just Mark wishing all a good season, nothing more.
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I decided to wait till I "calibrate" the TV a bit and take some screen shots and a few "whole system" pics and post them here. expect some pics in a day or two.
I don't like the ones I took already. I took them in haste and feel like they don't do justice to how it actually looks ...
Rich: warning: It's not a Vizio ;)
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Ending his message with "Happy Holidays" didn't give me a warm fuzzy ...
I'm not reading anything into that....
....to me Happy Holidays applies from TG to NY. that's just Mark wishing all a good season, nothing more.
OK.... maybe you're right. For a guy who used to post all over the place, not just on his own forum, he's been mighty silent since pulling the plug. I hope at least he's having a good time during his break!
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I have to say one thing. Well, a few things. Aside from all the complaining, badly promised delivery dates, product malfunction, and the like, Mark has given me personally great products for the dollar. If he just wouldn't try to please everyone and promise the moon, all would be fine. If the products he recently rushed out to please orders were more tight lipped and available when they were ready, all would be fine. Life is short and I feel he tries to cover the whole spectrum of audio. You just can't do that. I like Mark, as a person, and a businessman. He, just like all of us businessmen, tries to please too much. I know his heart is in the right place but there at the end, I believe it started getting to him. Step back guys, this is an audio forum, not a guide to live by. Be kind to Mark, be kind to your fellow members, and enjoy the music. I took Mark to the airport in Huntsville and had a great conversation with him. It wasn't about amps or speakers, it was about life and how he looks at it. Business owners are going through tough times.
Not only has Mark provided me with nice products, but he has also been very encouraging to me at times when I didn't expect it. This is not a Koolaid drinkathon, it's the truth. I personally have been awakened by this whole thing and plan on selling all of my gear on Audiogon. Again, be at peace with Mark, yourself, and sit back and enjoy the music.
Robert
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I saw that ship going down months ago and I jumped off with the swiftness. I regret ever purchasing items from the company. There are some amazing small business out there and I wish would have chosen more wisely which one I would have given my dollars to.
Are you the same person who got the great deal on the used aura note/piano black minis from an av123 forum member? If so, was there something specific about the minis that you did not like, were they simply too much bass for your townhouse, or did you sell them because you felt av123 would not be around to support them? Not trying to stir up anything, just curious, since I bought a pr. of minis on the used market, and they have performed outstanding. Also their finish/veneer/style (satin rosewood), give them the look of a much more expensive speaker.
Thanks,
John
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I personally have been awakened by this whole thing and plan on selling all of my gear on Audiogon.
Robert
Robert,
what kind of awakening did you go through that made you decide get rid of all your audio gear? and by "this whole thing" do you mean the closing of the av123 forum?
care to share a bit? I'm just curious.
Step back guys, this is an audio forum, not a guide to live by.
Robert
yet it seems that's exactly what you describe in your post. sorry if i misunderstood.
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Rich: warning: It's not a Vizio Wink
Duh :duh:
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Don't worry Rich .
I've got 3 scattered about the house . :)
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Call me a speculator ... I've mentioned this elsewhere ... Perhaps the plan all along was out with the old in the new. Perhaps he wanted to get rid of us :cry: Every little bird needs to leave the nest at some point. I guess I just wish he would have waited until I felt I had the wings to do so.
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How long do you think it will take to go through the various stages: surprise, concern, confusion, frustration, anger, and finally indifference.
I guess I'm at the confused stage. Or more curious at this point. Time will tell. :?
Meanwhile, let's all take the time to check our interconnects for oxidization. :)
Bonk
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I will be very curious to see the traffic on the forum when it comes back up. Controversy drives people to the site. If they buy I do not know, but getting them there is step 1. This past spring, iirc, there was a big flame war on avs started by someone with delivery issues on a sub I believe. It was a drawn out bloodbath, like we often see. As it progressed av123 saw record # of registered users and guests for several days in a row. A few days after it ended #s dropped - close to half of what they had been in the midst of the controversy. I don't think #s have been close since. Now the forum closing seems to be a relatively hot topic on most every audio forum out there. I have to believe that lots of folks who never tried to visit av123 have been on the regular site and are waiting anxiously to see what the hell all the fuss is about with regard to the forum.
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Bonk - I just saw the Ebony Mini's in your sig. Do you know where the other 2 pair are? I managed to convince Mark to build me a pair as a "Santa Shifter" gift a few years ago (and really had to beg but everything else was Ebony and he took pity on me). I had to pre-pay in full to him pesonally and it took about a year and a half but when they were finally ready he let me know that he had to build at least 5 pair on the line to make it happen. So I have #1, Mark indicated that he kept a pair for himself, you make 3, that leaves 2 out in the wild somewhere...
They look great next to my Ebony LS-6's :thumb:
That's one of the things that makes it so hard to give up on Mark and AV123. I have been the recipient of his personal brand of kindness way back in the day and it's just upsetting to watch things unravel...
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I'll have the wings, once my order finally arrives. Color me between anger and indifference. The latter will come when I can stop going through the av123 forum, pathetically hoping for some tiny bit of info about possible delivery date. Tried all the proper channels. Either no response or "won't be any later than.....". Well, I have been through too many "later thans". It's sad when you just quit asking, because even when you get an answer, it doesn't mean anything. Yea, I know, I can always get a refund. That is not what I wanted. I wish this company well. I do. Some how I have some kind emotional involvement with them. Question my sanity at times. I'm here with another user name. Have been with the forum for several years. Have not complained on the internet or otherwise. Enough is enough though.
What I'm wondering, is, do I represent the majority. Those who have not complained before. If I happen to be part of the proverbial tip of the iceberg, that business is an utter and complete wreck.
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Bonk - I just saw the Ebony Mini's in your sig. Do you know where the other 2 pair are? I managed to convince Mark to build me a pair as a "Santa Shifter" gift a few years ago (and really had to beg but everything else was Ebony and he took pity on me). I had to pre-pay in full to him pesonally and it took about a year and a half but when they were finally ready he let me know that he had to build at least 5 pair on the line to make it happen. So I have #1, Mark indicated that he kept a pair for himself, you make 3, that leaves 2 out in the wild somewhere...
They look great next to my Ebony LS-6's :thumb:
That's one of the things that makes it so hard to give up on Mark and AV123. I have been the recipient of his personal brand of kindness way back in the day and it's just upsetting to watch things unravel...
Funny you mention that. As I could tell you if I had access to the forum and my stored PM's. 8)
If memory serves, I had pm'd you and 2 other fellows regarding hitting MLS up to do a limited ebony mini center run.
Once the site gets back up I'll let you know what I find.
Ebony LS6's !!! Me likey. :icon_surprised: I'll trade ya . :D
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I originally had Piano Black ones on order but went back and forth because of the gloss finish (Theater) and the fact that it didn't match anything else. I finally cancelled the PB ones after all the delays - I just didn't want them enough to justify the wait and the cost. I was going to pick up one of Danny's kits and build my own - I had already purchased all of the Ebony veneer (still have it) and then they announced the limited run of Ebony and I had to jump back in...
The Mojo looks spectacular though...
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I really do hope Mark brings up the forum soon with his part 2 letter filled with lots of good info, and we get our answers. I sort of feel like an investor being left in the dark.
Here's to hoping for good news.
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I saw that ship going down months ago and I jumped off with the swiftness. I regret ever purchasing items from the company. There are some amazing small business out there and I wish would have chosen more wisely which one I would have given my dollars to.
Are you the same person who got the great deal on the used aura note/piano black minis from an av123 forum member? If so, was there something specific about the minis that you did not like, were they simply too much bass for your townhouse, or did you sell them because you felt av123 would not be around to support them? Not trying to stir up anything, just curious, since I bought a pr. of minis on the used market, and they have performed outstanding. Also their finish/veneer/style (satin rosewood), give them the look of a much more expensive speaker.
Thanks,
John
Yes, I am and it was a fantastic deal. First, I never wanted Minis, I wanted an Aura Note, but I can't pass up a great deal. At the price, I felt like I was getting an Aura Note with a pair of Minis thrown in for free. I tried to like the Minis because everyone on the forum raved about them. Then I realized that the guys on the forum rave about EVERY speaker Mark puts out.
The Mini's took far too much tinkering. I want to sit back with a glass of wine and enjoy the music, not constantly move speakers around and fiddle with crossovers and level. In my opinion, those powered subs are overkill and the bass was boomy. I practically had those things in the middle of the room and the bass was still fat. I like my bass with punch.
I guess I am just a monitor kind of guy. I like my music ACCURATE. The Minis were NOT for me.
The Aura Note on the other hand is fantastic and the company, April Music, has amazing customer service. I had an electrician blow out my breaker-box and it fried my Aura Note. I contacted the company and they sent me a brand new one.
MLS might be a great guy but I find him to be a real sh*tty businessman. The guy does have TWO failed companies. The promises, the delays, the products he talks about that never come to be, the blown up ULW, UFW, MFW 15s, The X-Amps and X-heads that arrived faulty and the taking of funds before products are even in the country, which he said he would NEVER do again. I could go on. I just chose to not patronize the company any longer.
I will say the X-LS Encore is a fantastic bookshelf speaker but of course he isn't making that one anymore.
In closing, this is all MY OPINION. I am not trying to convince anyone to see things my way nor am I interested in anyone telling me how great a guy MLS. I know a lot of great guys, but being a nice guy doesn't mean I need to or should buy products from you. Nice does not a businessman make.
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Deleting.
(I don't really want to pile on.)
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deleted
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Another problem I have with AV123 is the products being made in China and Colombia. I never thought much about it until the US economy went into the sh*tter. I am going to make a conscious effort to TRY to buy more American from this point on.
My next system will be Bel Canto
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I need to show off my new HDTV :D in the "pics of your speakers" thread or somewhere...
Cool Nish, go ahead and post it here in the Home Theater circle.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=60.0
I got that camera that you recommended (canon a 590). I like it. I'll take pictures of it ... when I get another camera! :green:
Hey Nishan! Hello Vincent! :wave:
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Hello gang. :D
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I switched out the laser in my xcd88 today and feel like a bloody hero! Where's Dweekie and Bionicear , I want a pat on the back!
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Another problem I have with AV123 is the products being made in China and Colombia. I never thought much about it until the US economy went into the sh*tter. I am going to make a conscious effort to TRY to buy more American from this point on.
My next system will be Bel Canto
Buying American is very hard to define and even harder to verify. There is a Honda plant 10 miles down the road that employs 3,000 Americans. Where does Honda fit in "buy American?"
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Another problem I have with AV123 is the products being made in China and Colombia. I never thought much about it until the US economy went into the sh*tter. I am going to make a conscious effort to TRY to buy more American from this point on.
My next system will be Bel Canto
Buying American is very hard to define and even harder to verify. There is a Honda plant 10 miles down the road that employs 3,000 Americans. Where does Honda fit in "buy American?"
Yes it is VERY hard which is why I put the word try in CAPS. At least Honda is employing 3,000 Americans in their plant. How many employees does AV123 have in Colorado?
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Thought maybe you guys crashed this forum for a minute there! :lol:
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Thought maybe you guys crashed this forum for a minute there! :lol:
The AV123 wrecking crew strikes again! Question is... who's next?
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av123 Wrecking Crew...I love it!
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Thought maybe you guys crashed this forum for a minute there! :lol:
lol
:rotflmao:
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I had to go look at porn for a minute...damn you guys. :nono:
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... I know a lot of great guys, but being a nice guy doesn't mean I need to or should buy products from you. Nice does not a businessman make.
Agreed. It's like people just keep waiting and hoping because MLS is viewed as a nice guy and they don't want to hurt his feelings. Is this the business world or play school? You want to play in the big leagues you need to step up... and I don't mean for hugs and kisses, lol. :duh:
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Hey Stephen, Hey Patrick.. :wave:
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I had to go look at porn for a minute...damn you guys. :nono:
Just for a minute? :lol:
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Hey Stephen, Hey Patrick.. :wave:
Hey Nishan! Good to see you around buddy! :D
Looking forward to seeing pics of your new HDTV. :thumb:
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So many good jokes about the minute....nah, too easy... :thumb:
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What's that old song "Just one look, that's all it took..." :lol:
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I need the forum. It was my go-to place for all my questions. Audio, computers, firearms, woodworking... I had a question about changing brake pads today, and I was forced to google it. :-(
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I think what keeps happening is cost over runs are killing MLS's business. Money ain't cheap and with all the shortfalls of opening the first factory in Cali, then the second, and with COG's not what they were, it seems that all monies pre-paid by customers went to finance this new growth. Take a healthy growing Company add these up and throw in a drop in value of the Dollar and you have Disaster. While Mark is a great guy and I think the forum was shut down to relieve some pressure off of his shoulders, unless he puts some of his burden upon someone else plate he won't succeed. It might boost moral and Co. spirit moving a guy up from shipping to CS or take a popular guy from the forums and give him a position, but it is not a business plan. There is no one there in his organization that can fill his shoes that can fill in in his absence from the forum or in his place of business. The knowledge needed isn't nor can be learned from withinit will only come from someone who was a Boss.
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Hi Guys. Is this our new outpost?
As for the buying American thing, I can respect that. However, I think it's worth noting that it wasn't greedy Chinese or Columbian businessmen that put us in this mess.
Personally, I have more concerns about QC than anything else. Not that the Chinese can't make high quality stuff - quite the opposite. But, if you don't tell them extactly what you want, you'll probably get something you don't expect. I know this from experience, but more on the software side.
Having said all that, I am happy my new amps, Odysseys, are made in the US.
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This is not an original idea, but worth repeating I think. If mls hired a full time "communications assistant", if that is a thing, it would help alleviate a lot of stress. The CA would be responsible for seeing everything that gets posted, and letting mls and key av123 staffers know of any posts that needed his personal touch and attention. The CA would screen all other modes of communication, and again give mls the stuff that needed immediate personal answers, while passing on other inquiries to the appropriate folks. Inquiries like "can I auction my ring off on your forum" would have to be met with a polite "no" rather than a personal response from The Man.
This set up would mean that mls loses some of his active participation in the forum. It would also create a layer of insulation between him and his customers, the absence of which makes his company very unique. He would have to give up the famous practice of posting all of his phone #s. The CA would be the gate keeper.
The benefits greatly outweigh those sacrifices, I think. mls would gain tons of time to stay more focused on manufacturing, logistics and R&D without worrying if the forum is going to hell because he is away. I believe ultimately that he'd gain back enough time to be able to just drop by the forum and BS with people a little. Would the reduction in his personal involvement hurt? Maybe. It would be better focused on issues, but less focused on folks who seem enthralled by just being able to talk to the head of a company and feel "connected". While that handful of folks may not like it, I think the forum and potential new customers might be better off because some of those guys do mls no favors in how they "support" him.
Like I said, this is not my idea. I've seen more than a few folks post similar thoughts. I'm not quite arrogant enough to think that what I believe will solve all problems at av123, but it sure seems reasonable to think that this approach would help a great deal.
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I think Mark is somewhat crippled in business with his love for audio and attempting to bring all of his ideas into reality. He has dreams and aspirations to create some great products, but I think he's gotten ahead of himself. I haven't been with the forum that long, but I've gathered that AV123 is firstly a speaker company. Mark's got great people to work with, but with all of these new ventures, he's short on something very important - time... and now money. Mark needs to return to what put AV123 on the map and slowly dabble in the other ideas swimming in his head.
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I need the forum. It was my go-to place for all my questions. Audio, computers, firearms, woodworking... I had a question about changing brake pads today, and I was forced to google it. :-(
I think you'll find all your answers here on AC ...many Circles to check out... 8)
As for brake pads....the go-to guy...Bob in St. Louis (Sports Bar). :wink:
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Yes, I am and it was a fantastic deal. First, I never wanted Minis, I wanted an Aura Note, but I can't pass up a great deal. At the price, I felt like I was getting an Aura Note with a pair of Minis thrown in for free. I tried to like the Minis because everyone on the forum raved about them. Then I realized that the guys on the forum rave about EVERY speaker Mark puts out.
The Mini's took far too much tinkering. I want to sit back with a glass of wine and enjoy the music, not constantly move speakers around and fiddle with crossovers and level. In my opinion, those powered subs are overkill and the bass was boomy. I practically had those things in the middle of the room and the bass was still fat. I like my bass with punch.
I guess I am just a monitor kind of guy. I like my music ACCURATE. The Minis were NOT for me.
The Aura Note on the other hand is fantastic and the company, April Music, has amazing customer service. I had an electrician blow out my breaker-box and it fried my Aura Note. I contacted the company and they sent me a brand new one.
yeah you are right, I forgot how much tinkering it took for me to get them where I can now just sit back and enjoy music with a glass of wine, beer, or cognac, depending on the mood, and not have to mess with any of it...but I kind of like tinkering with things, so maybe it did not bother me as much. I am not a real expert, but in my setup the minis sound very accurate, for the type of music I listen to on them...no boom in my bass. The one thing I don't like is the very small "sweet spot", and how much different they sound when not in it. Just a quick note, there were quite a few professional reviewers who liked the minis also, not just av123 forum people. Anyway, glad the Aura Note worked out for you, and with the proceeds you got for selling the PB minis, sure your overall cost for it was great.
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I'm sorry, but I feel the forums should stay closed till there are products to fill all backorders and every person that has an e-mail owed to them has it answered. There is NO reason that someone has to make a complaint on a public forum to have it answered...It's kinda strange to me that 90 if not 100% of these complaints cannot be rectified by a phone call to CS. That they have to be posted on a public forum to be answered by the owner. There is no need for a CA. There is a need for Product.
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I think Mark is somewhat crippled in business with his love for audio and attempting to bring all of his ideas into reality. He has dreams and aspirations to create some great products, but I think he's gotten ahead of himself. I haven't been with the forum that long, but I've gathered that AV123 is firstly a speaker company. Mark's got great people to work with, but with all of these new ventures, he's short on something very important - time... and now money. Mark needs to return to what put AV123 on the map and slowly dabble in the other ideas swimming in his head.
I beg to differ.
Mark has great ideas that he has brought to reality. And like any business man, mad scientist, tinkerer, or speaker manufacturer, there has to be a place for him to show off what he has in the works and what's coming next. This gives him the feedback which is necessary to gauge how successful a product will be.
On the other hand what he doesn't need is people who make up their own schedules nor frustrated CS people who can't give people the answers they want to hear.
All these other ideas swimming in his head is what he should be concentrating on, thats what grows a business. I say "should" because if the people who were surrounding him did their jobs and were not there only to collect a paycheck, He'd have all the time in the world to do what needs to be done.
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I wonder if the trip to Lucid the see the LS-9's is still on? I have 3 LS-9's on order and honestly would probably cancel if I could get my money back I bought in gift cards a year ago to put toward the speakers. Hell I may be dead or deaf by the time they are built :?, and if they aren't built than I'm out the money I spent on the gift cards?
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I've become an audio geek (or is it nerd?). Stephen's excellent adventure:http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62512.new#new (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62512.new#new)
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I'm wondering just how long Mark plans to keep his forum shut down. He runs the risk of alienating so many potential customers and old time friends, I just don't get it. How long do you think it will take to go through the various stages: surprise, concern, confusion, frustration, anger, and finally indifference.
I'm starting to think this is the plan. Mark mentioned that his unnamed expert explained to him that the forum had morphed into a social network (which seems to be a bad thing). I guess if you have a bunch of idle people hanging around watching your business and commenting it probably gets annoying. Think about: 1000 back seat drivers. I'd go stark raving mad! So perhaps the point is to stay closed long enough for us to go elsewhere and then he will re-open the forum. Only the mega fans will retur., New clients will only hear praise and see the anointed kissing Mark's feet :D (this last part is a joke :nono:).
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I need the forum. It was my go-to place for all my questions. Audio, computers, firearms, woodworking... I had a question about changing brake pads today, and I was forced to google it. :-(
I'm here for ya, if I was on-line at the time.
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I'm starting to think this is the plan. Mark mentioned that his unnamed expert explained to him that the forum had morphed into a social network (which seems to be a bad thing). I guess if you have a bunch of idle people hanging around watching your business and commenting it probably gets annoying. Think about: 1000 back seat drivers. I'd go stark raving mad! So perhaps the point is to stay closed long enough for us to go elsewhere and then he will re-open the forum. Only the mega fans will retur., New clients will only hear praise and see the anointed kissing Mark's feet :D (this last part is a joke :nono:).
Funny how it only became a "social network" when things got ugly.
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Maybe it's time to start an over/under on when the Forum will be back, and/or when the letter will be posted.
I'll take Under -- Christmas
2009!
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I think Mark is somewhat crippled in business with his love for audio and attempting to bring all of his ideas into reality. He has dreams and aspirations to create some great products, but I think he's gotten ahead of himself. I haven't been with the forum that long, but I've gathered that AV123 is firstly a speaker company. Mark's got great people to work with, but with all of these new ventures, he's short on something very important - time... and now money. Mark needs to return to what put AV123 on the map and slowly dabble in the other ideas swimming in his head.
I beg to differ.
Mark has great ideas that he has brought to reality. And like any business man, mad scientist, tinkerer, or speaker manufacturer, there has to be a place for him to show off what he has in the works and what's coming next. This gives him the feedback which is necessary to gauge how successful a product will be.
On the other hand what he doesn't need is people who make up their own schedules nor frustrated CS people who can't give people the answers they want to hear.
All these other ideas swimming in his head is what he should be concentrating on, thats what grows a business. I say "should" because if the people who were surrounding him did their jobs and were not there only to collect a paycheck, He'd have all the time in the world to do what needs to be done.
I agree, but AV123 isn't Sony. Its resources are limited at the moment, so the tinkering, while it may lead to something worthwhile, can only go so far before it starts to take away from the core of the company. Mark has big ideas for AV123, and I hope they all come to pass, but you can't do everything all at once.
The CS may also be a factor, but I'm not very familiar with those issues. I ordered a pair of speakers, and they arrived shortly after. :-)
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There is an AV123 facebook group. I created it. :-) We can create discussions over there too. Only this time I HAVE THE POWER! lol
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Now that's scary!
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I think MLS should resign.....come back unannounced as President and CEO of product design etc or whatever and abandon the forums. He would hate this but it's the only way. As long as he is around there nobody will ever follow the chain of command....they will always want and insist on the top dog and the problem snow balls every time the top dog comes in and fixes things.
IMO
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Another problem I have with AV123 is the products being made in China and Colombia. I never thought much about it until the US economy went into the sh*tter. I am going to make a conscious effort to TRY to buy more American from this point on.
My next system will be Bel Canto
Then you don't only have an issue with av123. You should have a problem with 80% of the stuff you own. Why single out av123?
Yes and I did see TRY.
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I was about to complain abotu AV123, but I erased it and started over. AV123 please get your act together.
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Have you guys checked out Danny's latest experiment? He's definitely thinking outside the box:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61023.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=61023.0)
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62010.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62010.0)
This amazing rendition of the finished product was created by WerTicus:
(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/578/thevenuespb5.jpg)
"Venue" was just a test name - Danny won't be using it for reasons he gives in the thread.
Large version:
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/241/thevenuegx3.jpg (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/241/thevenuegx3.jpg)
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Wow, that looks SLICK!!!!
Btw, CloudStrife-- who won the bet between you and Bob on LSU and Notre Dame? I've been meaning to catch back up on the thread, and obviously haven't been able to recently.
And no mentions of the trainwreck of Tennessee's season are necessary. Or I'll hunt you down and give you a noogie. :D
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The deal was that ND would/wouldn't win 8 games. They are 6-6 with only a bowl game left, so 8 wins is impossible. Therefore I win. :thumb: I gave him an idea of what he could do (dress his entire family up in LSU apparel, face paint and all, and have them sing our fight song), but I'm not sure what he'll do.
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If they also sound like the Linkwitz Orion's, Danny will have a hit!
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Hahaha!! That's awesome!! Bob's a good guy, I wonder how he'll react?
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I suspect Bob will get into it and do something over the top...
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I am starting to get the feeling that I need to find a new audio forum. Yesterday's unexpected shutdown left me a little miffed, and quite honestly I am getting tired of the drama involved with the AV123 community. I have a feeling that I will be spending alot more time here at Audiocircle in 2009, not by choice but out of necessity. It's just not fun anymore. No doubt that I will miss the comrade of many of my friends at AV123, but such is life.
I'm in the same boat, but if you look around you may find a few people who spend time at AC that you know. I haven't had a lot of free time lately, so my forum reading has been severely curtailed anywhere, but I do try to pop in for a quick browse here and up until recently av123 to see if any threads interest me or whatnot. Seeing the forums completely shut down by CHOICE just boggles my mind. Makes me wonder if this so-called forum expert MLS has been talking to made this particular call, as it seems like a really bad decision to me. Most of this has been hashed out in this thread, so I won't say much more than that I've been becoming increasingly disillusioned with AV123 and their ability to produce quality product over the last year, and this latest forum shutdown move is pretty much the nail in the coffin for me. I had been planning an HT system around their 525T product (and more importantly for the sake of this discussion, an announced but not-in-production matching product), but I think I'm going to start looking seriously at alternatives now. I just have no more faith left.
I honestly hope they can turn things around and get back to what made me interested in the company in the first place, but in the meantime, I think I'll spend my money and free time elsewhere for now.
PS: When are you starting the Backpacking thread in the Sport's Bar, SetterP?!
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I'd like to understand more about why a "social network" is a bad thing...seems to me that's what they were shooting for, with their own postings and behavior as the prime example...
Genuine curiosity question here, not av123 bashing...
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Forum is up
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Forum is up
That it is. That pretty much kills this thread/forum... for a few days at least. :P
Anyway one more point that's been touched on needs to be harped on... MLS quit selling product when it is in the development stage, and may never even come to be. Can you go out and buy the concept cars you see at the auto shows? Not until they actually start producing them. If the car companies are poorly run where does that leave AV123?
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Glad to see the forum back up so that I can connect with some friends.
With that being said, it is hard to 'un-ring the bell'. I think I'm gonna stick around AC for a spell. 8)
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Glad to see the forum back up so that I can connect with some friends.
With that being said, it is hard to 'un-ring the bell'. I think I'm gonna stick around AC for a spell. 8)
Yeah, the bloom is off of the rose...
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PS: When are you starting the Backpacking thread in the Sport's Bar, SetterP?!
Ya know Papa, I might just do that. :thumb:
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I like it here. I don't think I'll be leaving any time soon 8)
Slush
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I like it here. I don't think I'll be leaving any time soon 8)
Slush
This is good,,, I love your album picks and have been tweeking my library so please do stick around. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I like it here. I don't think I'll be leaving any time soon 8)
Slush
This is good,,, I love your album picks and have been tweeking my library so please do stick around. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I have to admit that I have been exposed to some excellent tunes from SlushPuppy's picks. He has a very eclectic taste in music, and has expanded my listening habits.
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I like it here. I don't think I'll be leaving any time soon 8)
Slush
This is good,,, I love your album picks and have been tweeking my library so please do stick around. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I have to admit that I have been exposed to some excellent tunes from SlushPuppy's picks. He has a very eclectic taste in music, and has expanded my listening habits.
Yep, i hunger for good n' different and SP's picks are all of that. :D
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
The 2nd part of the letter is up, at least as best as I can tell. It's an addendum to the original post. We'll have to see how some of the changes to the forum work.
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I have also enjoyed getting a glimpse of lots of artists from SlushPuppy. I have to ask though - is there any music you don't like? :D
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
The 2nd part of the letter is up, at least as best as I can tell. It's an addendum to the original post. We'll have to see how some of the changes to the forum work.
Where?
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The 2nd part of the letter is up, at least as best as I can tell. It's an addendum to the original post. We'll have to see how some of the changes to the forum work.
Where?
In the Loudspeakers section in the stickied letter from MLS thread... added to the original post. Looks like part 3 will be the one that makes or breaks it for me. Part 2 is just forum talk.
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The 2nd part of the letter is up, at least as best as I can tell. It's an addendum to the original post. We'll have to see how some of the changes to the forum work.
Where?
In the Loudspeakers section in the stickied letter from MLS thread... added to the original post. Looks like part 3 will be the one that makes or breaks it for me. Part 2 is just forum talk.
[/quote]
Thanks.
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
The 2nd part of the letter is up, at least as best as I can tell. It's an addendum to the original post. We'll have to see how some of the changes to the forum work.
Where?
http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=38849 (http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=38849)
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Much to their surprise they had become a company that people LOVED to HATE…
How typical. Anyone being critical about anything about MLS or AV123 actions has it in for AV123. Pretty standard spin for AV123.
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Mls must have unhuman charisma as many men who meet him seem to fall under his spell and love him. There are a number of the most fervent fans who really seem to be in love with him. I've been wondering about this :scratch:... He's certainly an interesting character. There are flashes of brilliance and he seems capable of great empathy. He seems to have great people skills and is a superb salesman. On the other hand he seems to be gullible, insincere on occasion, melodramatic and erratic. If he could play the clarinet he would be Woody Allen :lol:.
I get the impression that we are witnessing his therapy in real time...
Bottom line is : buy only speakers if they are in stock...
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Guess we'll never see that 2nd letter here huh? Oh well, I don't watch soap operas all that much anyways nor do i hang out in "cry in your beer" bars but it was fun watching this crew while it lasted. :lol:
See ya'all next time. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I would add to this but I don't want SD to get an over inflated appreciation of himself :D...
I like it here. I don't think I'll be leaving any time soon 8)
Slush
This is good,,, I love your album picks and have been tweeking my library so please do stick around. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I would add to this but I don't want SD to get an over inflated appreciation of himself :D...
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I'd like to understand more about why a "social network" is a bad thing...seems to me that's what they were shooting for, with their own postings and behavior as the prime example...
Genuine curiosity question here, not av123 bashing...
Good question. Maybe it just brings a lot of idlers around who have nothing better to do than to scrutinize your every move. If it was just a corporate site I would only go there when I wanted specific information about a product or when I had a complaint or something. As it is I go to av123 everyday and have the time and the inclination to comment on product, business model , personality (see above :wink:), employees . It basically becomes a fishbowl.
Mind you it has served them well in the past and now they object to it because they are getting more criticism for problems. It would be interesting to know if there are more problems as a percentage of overall product or, the percentage is the same but in absolute numbers there are more problems just because they are producing more. On the forum, if complaints are tripled because production has tripled, it looks like a big quality control issue whereas in reality things haven't changed.
Just speculating. Maybe we could have prize for best speculation? :D
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Maybe it just brings a lot of idlers around who have nothing better to do than to scrutinize your every move.
curious. I feel a little irony or deja-vu going on. Wink2
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The 2nd part of the letter is up, at least as best as I can tell. It's an addendum to the original post. We'll have to see how some of the changes to the forum work.
Where?
In the Loudspeakers section in the stickied letter from MLS thread... added to the original post. Looks like part 3 will be the one that makes or breaks it for me. Part 2 is just forum talk.
Thanks.
[/quote]
What a waste of time reading that synopsis. Tell us something we don't already know and when you're going to ship our stuff. :duh:
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The 2nd part of the letter is up, at least as best as I can tell. It's an addendum to the original post. We'll have to see how some of the changes to the forum work.
Where?
In the Loudspeakers section in the stickied letter from MLS thread... added to the original post. Looks like part 3 will be the one that makes or breaks it for me. Part 2 is just forum talk.
Thanks.
What a waste of time reading that synopsis. Tell us something we don't already know and when you're going to ship our stuff. :duh:
[/quote]
Boy I sure agree. After going silent for some time, and if you look at the length of time (start to finish) it took to pull together both letters, more than ample to come out with a plan that addresses all product line issues and delays, even if some of the answers would not be great news, could have put an end to speculation and crafted a deliverable plan to right the ship...I really think that's what people are waiting to hear, and it continues to not be delivered...
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What did everybody expect........a revelation? I think it was Cab who said it best about MLS's modus operandi. Folks, I hate to be the pile on guy but this is nothing new from the Sheriff. You either like the way he does business or you don't.
Just prior to being banned at AV123 on Friday the 5th, I told CS that he sounded like a broken record. I also wrote what my Grandmother used to say about any given situation. She'd say "It's always something".........and folks, it will always be something at AV123. Maybe that's what makes the place.....the drama if you will. You live with that or you don't. MLS won't change. He likes flying by the seat of his pants. Remember, it's the ride. Sos dd. Now I'm off to the chiropractor like MLS.............if you're interested.
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It sure does feel like the many, many of us saying the problems are within the company, not the forum, went unheard.
And that, really, is the problem. They don't seem to be truly listening.
o well....maybe in part 3.
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So, I'm not going crazy. I thought I remembered that, one point of the letters was relevant info concerning the LS's, A and B stock. That is the only reason I kept waiting for them. Never been involved with a business situation like this. I don't think using the forum for delivery information and complaints was ever the way to do things, but I've had no success doing things through proper channels. Either no info, or statements which turn out not to be true, with no follow up. So, I am pathetically reduced to forum involvement to get any tiny scrap of info. Big fan for the last 4 years, many speakers down the road, and would never recommend them to any one. The one hook here is speaker value and it leaves conflicted.
Hope that changes. Wish nothing but good for av123, but...............
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Flip, it's a deliberate strategy called bait and hook.
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I consider myself to be a satisfied customer of AV123 for the most part as I've been fortunate and had only few issues. Having said that I do not understand what the purpose of these "letters" are as they really address little to nothing that anybody is really concerned with. At times they simply seem like the only thing they are doing is fulfilling the need to hear one's self speak....so to speak.
We waited how many days for this??? I don't get it! Once the issues at hand are addressed the problems will greatly decrease IMO.
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If I were in this situation I would be communicating directly with customers, whose information I have by the way, with solutions and commitments to resolve their specific issues, whatever the nature, timing, quality, refunds, etc. Not taking the broadest brush to issues (if that ever gets done in part whatever of the letter) in a forum. This method of broadcast addressing of issues is bound to leave multiple customers wondering about specifics related to their situation and cause even more posting and call traffic than if you proactively did the communication directly to them with concrete solutions.
Meet with my Moderators and give them marching orders on how to manage their respective parts of the forum and do a single policy announcement, then walk away and let them manage to it.
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I don't understand either. About the bait and switch...has crossed my mind, but don't think anyone is being that devious. On the other hand, there has been a definite repeated pattern of responding to simple customer request with long winded explanations that dont' mean anything to the quizzical customer base. I understand the LS9 folks wanting to know. It's been a long time for them. The poor LS b stock folks paid for speakers that the cabinets were already built back in March. These weren't in the development stage. By my uninformed estimate, that leave about 16 to 32 hours labor left to apply finish, install electronics, and package. I know there is more to it than that, but 9 months with no word or just misinformation. ????????? Now, blaming forum behaivor??
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This is good,,, I love your album picks and have been tweeking my library so please do stick around. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
I have to admit that I have been exposed to some excellent tunes from SlushPuppy's picks. He has a very eclectic taste in music, and has expanded my listening habits.
I have also enjoyed getting a glimpse of lots of artists from SlushPuppy. I have to ask though - is there any music you don't like? :D
Thanks guys. You can thank Amazon and that section on every page that says "Customers who bought this item also bought". I've been hooked ever since I first clicked it. I found most of my obscure discs that way. It's amazing how quickly you find yourself in a different musical genre.
Droht,
I got rid of all the stuff in my collection that I didn't like/listen to any more (roughly 400 discs). I now have +/- 1000 discs, and I listen to all of them. If something is in my collection these days, I like it. There was a time when I collected just for the sake of collecting, but now I only keep what I like. But yeah, I do tend to rave a lot about what I'm listening to at the moment :oops: Can't help myself, I love good music.
If all goes well I'll get my speakers unpacked this week and REALLY get back to listening.
Take care,
Slush
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I consider myself to be a satisfied customer of AV123 for the most part as I've been fortunate and had only few issues. Having said that I do not understand what the purpose of these "letters" are as they really address little to nothing that anybody is really concerned with. At times they simply seem like the only thing they are doing is fulfilling the need to hear one's self speak....so to speak.
We waited how many days for this??? I don't get it! Once the issues at hand are addressed the problems will greatly decrease IMO.
Thank you, I thought it was just me. :duh:
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I consider myself to be a satisfied customer of AV123 for the most part as I've been fortunate and had only few issues. Having said that I do not understand what the purpose of these "letters" are as they really address little to nothing that anybody is really concerned with. At times they simply seem like the only thing they are doing is fulfilling the need to hear one's self speak....so to speak.
We waited how many days for this??? I don't get it! Once the issues at hand are addressed the problems will greatly decrease IMO.
Thank you, I thought it was just me. :duh:
Yeah, that was the most re-written, proof-read and spell-checked bit of nothingness I've ever seen.
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I consider myself to be a satisfied customer of AV123 for the most part as I've been fortunate and had only few issues. Having said that I do not understand what the purpose of these "letters" are as they really address little to nothing that anybody is really concerned with. At times they simply seem like the only thing they are doing is fulfilling the need to hear one's self speak....so to speak.
We waited how many days for this??? I don't get it! Once the issues at hand are addressed the problems will greatly decrease IMO.
Thank you, I thought it was just me. :duh:
Yeah, that was the most re-written, proof-read and spell-checked bit of nothingness I've ever seen.
Part 3 isn't any better either. :scratch:
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I think that part 3 was far more insight than part 2. At least part 3 identified an important area in need of change (communication) and outlined some corrective measures. The real test will be in following through and implementing these outlined changes.
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I consider myself to be a satisfied customer of AV123 for the most part as I've been fortunate and had only few issues. Having said that I do not understand what the purpose of these "letters" are as they really address little to nothing that anybody is really concerned with. At times they simply seem like the only thing they are doing is fulfilling the need to hear one's self speak....so to speak.
We waited how many days for this??? I don't get it! Once the issues at hand are addressed the problems will greatly decrease IMO.
Thank you, I thought it was just me. :duh:
Yeah, that was the most re-written, proof-read and spell-checked bit of nothingness I've ever seen.
Part 3 isn't any better either. :scratch:
I feel like I'm reading the same paragraph over and over and ................ :sleep:
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FIRST IT WAS AUDIO UPDATES............
THEN IT WAS LETTERS...................
WHAT WILL IT BE NEXT? STAY TUNED.............. :dunno:
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FIRST IT WAS AUDIO UPDATES............
THEN IT WAS LETTERS...................
WHAT WILL IT BE NEXT? STAY TUNED.............. :dunno:
YOU GOT YOUR FORUM BACK SO WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO WHINE HERE ON AUDIOCIRCLES? :dunno:
edit: looking back you say you got banned from AV123 forum? Well that's an excellent reason in of itself for your behavior here. For as long as it will last that is. :D
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I'm done with AV123 Satrat.
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I'm done with AV123 Satrat.
So why continue to post about them? :scratch: Why don't you simply move on with your life? :scratch: Is any 1 audio company really worth all this grief? :scratch: It amazes me with the choice of gear that's out there why you people allow yourselves to get all wrapped up with needless grief? :scratch:
Get over it and get happy! :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
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Everyone else posts about them, why shouldn't I. This post will probably peeter out soon enough so please don't lose any sleep over this. Sounds like you might be just as compulsive here as the rest of us. Only your hangup is threads you don't like. By the way, I posted at AC on an entirely different subject today. That should show you I'm not just a one trick pony.
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Everyone else posts about them, why shouldn't I. This post will probably peeter out soon enough so please don't lose any sleep over this. Sounds like you might be just as compulsive here as the rest of us. Only your hangup is threads you don't like. By the way, I posted at AC on an entirely different subject today. That should show you I'm not just a one trick pony.
Congratulations! :thumb:
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If I were in this situation I would be communicating directly with customers, whose information I have by the way, with solutions and commitments to resolve their specific issues, whatever the nature, timing, quality, refunds, etc. Not taking the broadest brush to issues (if that ever gets done in part whatever of the letter) in a forum. This method of broadcast addressing of issues is bound to leave multiple customers wondering about specifics related to their situation and cause even more posting and call traffic than if you proactively did the communication directly to them with concrete solutions.
Meet with my Moderators and give them marching orders on how to manage their respective parts of the forum and do a single policy announcement, then walk away and let them manage to it.
Yep. Don't even try go there with these characters... they tell you straight up to communicate via the forum as that gets the best results, but as soon as anyone complains then they want it dealt with privately. They are great at trying to derail the topics and put their nothing concrete spin on things. Just like that infamous MLS letter... that sways from I'm a god, to I suck, to I love you guys, to you evil little buggers. This guy needs therapy, and someone with business skills to run the show. But that's all for now I need to go walk the dog, check on my dying mother, and feed one thousand orphans before designing some speaker cables, and oh my girlfriend just texted me...
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Yep. Don't even try go there with these characters... they tell you straight up to communicate via the forum as that gets the best results, but as soon as anyone complains then they want it dealt with privately. They are great at trying to derail the topics and put their nothing concrete spin on things. Just like that infamous MLS letter... that sways from I'm a god, to I suck, to I love you guys, to you evil little buggers. This guy needs therapy, and someone with business skills to run the show. But that's all for now I need to go walk the dog, check on my dying mother, and feed one thousand orphans before designing some speaker cables, and oh my girlfriend just texted me...
musicman06, the tone of your post is really unwarranted and frankly, not welcome on AC. There's been some healthy discussion here but your post is just cheap and nasty. Please do not do that here again.
620gold - perhaps you could tone it down a bit too please.
[Note: edited from original cryptic post to avoid misinterpretation...]
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I think that part 3 was far more insight than part 2. At least part 3 identified an important area in need of change (communication) and outlined some corrective measures. The real test will be in following through and implementing these outlined changes.
Yeah but he goes way overboard. Too much detail. He'll just get bogged down writing the thing and it won't go anywhere. Just keep it simple, don't re-invent anything. What needs to be done can and has been described in three lines. A five part, multi page (multi-multi) letter is not required and is just a waste of time and a distraction. As my ex-boss used to say"no philosophy, nail the nail" and, infamously, "do it now, think after"...
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I think that part 3 was far more insight than part 2. At least part 3 identified an important area in need of change (communication) and outlined some corrective measures. The real test will be in following through and implementing these outlined changes.
Yeah but he goes way overboard. Too much detail. He'll just get bogged down writing the thing and it won't go anywhere. Just keep it simple, don't re-invent anything. What needs to be done can and has been described in three lines. A five part, multi page (multi-multi) letter is not required and is just a waste of time and a distraction. As my ex-boss used to say"no philosophy, nail the nail" and, infamously, "do it now, think after"...
Agreed, apparently one "Home" is not enough either http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=39326 (http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=39326) :o
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Well, I wish them well but perhaps you know my opinion of Mr Sub?
I think that part 3 was far more insight than part 2. At least part 3 identified an important area in need of change (communication) and outlined some corrective measures. The real test will be in following through and implementing these outlined changes.
Yeah but he goes way overboard. Too much detail. He'll just get bogged down writing the thing and it won't go anywhere. Just keep it simple, don't re-invent anything. What needs to be done can and has been described in three lines. A five part, multi page (multi-multi) letter is not required and is just a waste of time and a distraction. As my ex-boss used to say"no philosophy, nail the nail" and, infamously, "do it now, think after"...
Agreed, apparently one "Home" is not enough either http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=39326 (http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=39326) :o
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Well, after a few days back what is the result of the shutdown and Mark's letter: absolutely nothing. Same old same old... :scratch: