AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100

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gryphongryph

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AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« on: 24 Apr 2019, 08:37 pm »
I posted this question in another forum without any replies, so I thought I would try here as well.

What amp would you recommend of these two, AVA Vision Set 400 or the Belles SA-100 amp, to be used with either a Don Sachs pre amp or a Supratek Cabernet pre, my speakers are Graham Audio LS 5/9.Would very much appreciate your input on the two amps, especially how they fair with tube pre amps.What is the sound difference between them and is there a quality difference?
I know that the Belles is much more expensive, but I can maybe make a deal on a demo unit, that puts it into the same price bracket as a new Set 400.I don’t like clinical sound, or thin upper mid/treble, I prefer rich and organic sound with clarity, but never harsh,also it is very important for me to be able to listen for many hours without any fatigue.
Hope to hear from some members that have or have heard either amp.
Thanks.

Big Red Machine

Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #1 on: 24 Apr 2019, 08:49 pm »
Well if the stereo Set 400 is anything like the mono 600's then it is a clear winner. The Mono's at Axpona were fantastic with the Alta speakers.

Belles is always good but I have not heard these so cannot comment.

gryphongryph

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #2 on: 25 Apr 2019, 01:12 am »
Thanks for you input, I am having problem getting a grip on the sound of the 400, the reviews are scarce and have been with equipment I am not familiar with.
How would you describe the sound, do they sound good on low volume, and what other amps would you compare them too ?

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #3 on: 25 Apr 2019, 03:29 am »
Thanks for you input, I am having problem getting a grip on the sound of the 400, the reviews are scarce and have been with equipment I am not familiar with.
How would you describe the sound, do they sound good on low volume, and what other amps would you compare them too ?

Ok, I did the review on the SET 400 on this forum for Frank.  It has a beautiful sound.  It has a lush mid range and leans just a hint on the warmer side.  It is smooth sounding without fatigue.  Cymbals sound natural.   Vocals have good texture.  Bass is powerful and controlled.  What more do you want to know?  I paired it with a $10K BAT tube preamp, and a $5K Luxman DAC.  Speakers were Magnepan 1.6's with dual subs.  It held its own with my older Pass X250 amp.  Of course, YMMV.

The only Belles that I have heard and know well is the Hot Rod 150A and I was not very impressed.  A good friend of mine had one.  But that is an older model.

AVA has a 30 day return policy, no risk there!

opnly bafld

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #4 on: 25 Apr 2019, 12:30 pm »
You might want to look at the Belles Aria integrated amp (if you don't already have the preamps mentioned).
I had one paired with ATC SCM 11v2s and it was very good; there is a thread on another forum where members are using it with a variety of speakers to good effect.
New it is under $2k and can be found used from about $1200 -1400.


gryphongryph

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #6 on: 25 Apr 2019, 06:23 pm »
How would the Set400 work with Supratek pre, as the pre has very high gain?

avahifi

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-10
« Reply #7 on: 25 Apr 2019, 06:35 pm »
What is your preamp gain in dB or volts?

Note that we can set the gain on the SET 400 lower if needed. We just need to change one resistor value per channel.

It would be helpful if you can supply us with the numbers for your preamp.

The SET 400 has a voltage gain of about 25 which is pretty much standard industry gain.

Frank

gryphongryph

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #8 on: 25 Apr 2019, 07:27 pm »
Thanks Frank for chipping in, I have sent a mail to the company, but because of time difference, it may take some time to get an answer.

gryphongryph

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #9 on: 26 Apr 2019, 04:44 am »
The pre amp is adjustable from 0-25dB.

avahifi

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #10 on: 26 Apr 2019, 12:44 pm »
Do you mean adjustable using volume control settings and that the actual gain of the line stage is 25 dB?

If so, then you will not have much actual use of the volume control with a normal gain power amp such as ours.

Thus, when you order the SET 400, please specify that we set the amp gain down to accommodate your higher than normal gain preamplifier.

No extra charge for this service.

Frabnk

gryphongryph

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #11 on: 26 Apr 2019, 01:53 pm »
You Can adjust the input on the preamp.

RonN5

Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #12 on: 26 Apr 2019, 02:22 pm »
Question....if you set the amp gain down (by adding resistors?) so that the preamp volume can be turned up between 9-12....does changing the amp gain result in any negatives to the sound....or is the sound the same as if the gain remained at your original factory spec?

gryphongryph

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #13 on: 27 Apr 2019, 09:19 am »
Not sure if the sound quality would suffer.
Frank, can you say how many Watts the set 400 is biased into class A ?
Thanks.

avahifi

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Re: AVA Vision Set 400 v Belles SA-100
« Reply #14 on: 29 Apr 2019, 08:33 pm »
Changing the SET 400 overall gain down for you if requested won’t change the sound except to perhaps improve the overall signal to noise ratio of the system.

This is because the thermal noise from your preamp is a constant so if you use its volume control for a louder signal output to make up for a lower gain amplifier, the signal gets larger but the noise from the preamp line section (which is after the volume control) does not change.  Thus better signal to noise ratio overall.

Frank