new obsession... room acoustics

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guf

new obsession... room acoustics
« on: 19 Jun 2012, 10:54 pm »
I'm much rather waste my money and buy cool sexy gear but instead I'm going to follow the suggestions here in this circle. almost everyone says it..... Once purchased people swear by room treatments and now it's my main focus. I'm waiting on some fabric samples but i have 3 larger bass traps coming for behind the sofa, and 2 smaller ones for up front in the corners.  I've been watching tons of tutorials, reading forums, and ordered the better sound book. i figured i'd get the basic panles in then figure out the measurements thing. It's over whelming, I dont know anything about how sound waves travel. I dont know what any of the graphs mean that are posted. I just know I wanna squeeze every bit of quality out of my set up.  I'm not sure what is going on in my room but I do feel fatigued after listening for a while. At first I wanted to just do the basics but then seeing some real kick ass set up's totally inspired me. my constraints are mostly room shape,19 x 13. flexible on other stuff. no waf but a few dog beds to deal with. I never thought the room was so bad until i clapped my hands a few times and heard the terrible echo. so I can only imagine what its doing to the music. here's my current set up. the speakers recently went from being cramped up front next to the tv to being spread out. Still looks cramped but the right speaker is more than 3 feet from the wall. feels much better now. I took a shot of the celling thinking someone may have some ideas for that. any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.







guf 
« Last Edit: 20 Jun 2012, 12:58 am by guf »

mfsoa

Re: new obsession... room acoustics
« Reply #1 on: 19 Jun 2012, 11:24 pm »
Ditch the coffee table if you can

drummermitchell

Re: new obsession... room acoustics
« Reply #2 on: 19 Jun 2012, 11:58 pm »
Looks like a cozy room,I too did the gear thing,then acoustic panels....HUGE DIFFERENCE and for the better.
I started with some tritraps in the corners and a couple of 242's for the first reflections then added as I went.
Probably I should do the measure thing but I'm lazy and it sounds great.
Seems though that bass trapping corners  and first reflections are a must do as a solid foundation to start.
I do wish I had done the panels earlier,not really as I probably wouldn't have acquired all this gear :green:.

You,like I have,now  have both superb gear and panels

gooberdude

Re: new obsession... room acoustics
« Reply #3 on: 20 Jun 2012, 04:37 am »
I like the fireplace    :thumb:

Totally agree with mfsoa, i gave up on having a LR table years ago.  It really helps to get accurate & pleasing sound.  Sad but true   :lol:

That said, my folks have the same table.  Its cool as can be.


Hipper

Re: new obsession... room acoustics
« Reply #4 on: 22 Jun 2012, 08:47 am »
I  take it the 19', left side, is a window. If it were my room and I had no restrictions, I would most likely use that window for the speakers and my listening position would be with my back against the arches wall. I would then use some acoustic foam stuck to panels that would be hung over the windows when I'm listening. I suppose that's not practical though?

Firstly generally speaking, ceilings aren't a big problem as long as they're level and not sloped. It's floors, walls, wall openings, windows and doors, as well as the room contents that need to be looked at.

The first area to sort out is bass. A boomy or otherwise poor bass damages the higher frequencies so get this right and you are well on the way. After that deal with the mids and highs.

When you play a bass sound and walk away and towards the speaker you should hear the bass louder and softer. If you find a location that sounds good to you, that's where you ears should be. You can also try moving the speakers about a bit. As the room isn't symmetrical I wouldn't expect the ideal speaker positions to be symmetrical either. You most likely will need some bass traps but often you need to deal with specific frequencies. Usually that's related to room size but as yours is an awkward shape, measurements are the best way. A simple Radio Shack sound pressure level meter and test tone disc would be a fair guide. The Stereophile Test CD has some suitable test tones, as does their Test CD3.

http://ssl.blueearth.net/primedia/home.php?cat=2

A search should yield some reviews of these discs.

Using more sophisticated measuring methods (like the REW: http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/) is better of course but require a lot of learning and more equipment. Similarly a digital equaliser can do this and help develop your sound but are also difficult to master (I use a Behringer DEQ2496).

Once the bass is to your satisfaction, or at least as good as it can be, you can listen to the other frequencies.

I agree about the coffee table. Sounds will reflect off that and to your ear and perhaps muddy what you hear.

I also feel uncomfortable with the left part of the sofa. Is it possible to remove that and just have a twin sofa facing the speakers? The removed piece of sofa may well absorb sounds on the left side. You also have the problem of sounds reflecting off the left window but on the right they are disappearing through the archway. Both these things affect the symmetry of the sound you are hearing. The solution for the windows reflections would perhaps be some mobile absorbing panels where the reflections occur (sound travels in straight lines like light so all you need to find the location is to have a friend hold a mirror by the window whilst you sit in your normal listening position and look for the speakers reflection - if you have no friends, you'll have to improvise!).

This site seems to have some good basic information:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-kRtNmn7tJWj/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_roomacoustics.html?page=3

The main point is to take your time. It can be frustrating trying to perfect the sound but it is definitely worth it. If you now have the attitude that once the sound leaves the speakers, no matter how good your gear is, it will be affected by the room and its contents you are well on the way. All those ideas of tweaking the system with better cables or support cones etc. will pale into insignificance compared to what room treatment (and, I contend, a digital equalizer) can do.


guf

Re: new obsession... room acoustics updated
« Reply #5 on: 3 Aug 2012, 09:46 pm »
got my second order of acoustic treatment stuff. i went from straddling the front corners with 2x4 panles to corner tri traps on the right to panles on the left and almost cover from floor to celling. and i have 3 monster bass traps on the back wall. following suggestion i also got rid of the coffee table. and am really enjoying the extra space and i'm sure it helps with less to reflect off. 
i am continually blown away with the improvements by simply adding these panles. its so deceiving adding all this stuff to control bass. i dont really care about bass, but magically it cleans ALL the sound up.
 




ricardojoa

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Re: new obsession... room acoustics updated
« Reply #6 on: 3 Aug 2012, 10:11 pm »
got my second order of acoustic treatment stuff. i went from straddling the front corners with 2x4 panles to corner tri traps on the right to panles on the left and almost cover from floor to celling. and i have 3 monster bass traps on the back wall. following suggestion i also got rid of the coffee table. and am really enjoying the extra space and i'm sure it helps with less to reflect off. 
i am continually blown away with the improvements by simply adding these panles. its so deceiving adding all this stuff to control bass. i dont really care about bass, but magically it cleans ALL the sound up.
 




What sort of improvements did you get if you dont mind me asking.

mca

Re: new obsession... room acoustics
« Reply #7 on: 3 Aug 2012, 10:14 pm »
Great panel colors for that room  :thumb:

guf

Re: new obsession... room acoustics updated
« Reply #8 on: 3 Aug 2012, 10:55 pm »
What sort of improvements did you get if you dont mind me asking.

I'll do my best to describe. i can easily listen at much higher volumes and with high volumes the bass is more noticeable. i do notice it change as i leave the sweet spot. it's boomier and less clean but that maybe because of other things. I havent heard a lot of different systems but mine is 100% digital. it sounds less harsh, i want to say warmer but that word is used so much. at first i thought something was wrong with my ears because it sounded so different. on a live recording, its sounds much more live. the drums really stood out. and more separated. i'm not sure how the Bon Iver album stands up to the audiophile standard but as i sit here and listen i'm thinking the mid range is so much more noticeable and clear.

people dont lie when they say it is some of the best money spent.

jimdgoulding

Re: new obsession... room acoustics
« Reply #9 on: 4 Aug 2012, 12:41 am »
With your speakers out where they are, early side wall reflection is reduced.  That's a cool thing.  Plus, havng them out from the wall behind them is a cool thing, too.  You got your equilateral triangle goin on.  I'm thinkin your there already :thumb:.  Ya might try covering your tube screen with some absorbtive panel thing when you're listening to music.  Pull the drape, too, and I would think consider putting an acoustic panel behind it. 

guf

Re: new obsession... room acoustics
« Reply #10 on: 4 Aug 2012, 07:40 am »
With your speakers out where they are, early side wall reflection is reduced.  That's a cool thing.  Plus, havng them out from the wall behind them is a cool thing, too.  You got your equilateral triangle goin on.  I'm thinkin your there already :thumb:.  Ya might try covering your tube screen with some absorbtive panel thing when you're listening to music.  Pull the drape, too, and I would think consider putting an acoustic panel behind it. 

 i'm waiting on some reflective panles on stands for the first reflection spots. so that'll help. I look into covering up the tv. that seems simple enough. thanks for the additional suggestions

JLM

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Re: new obsession... room acoustics
« Reply #11 on: 4 Aug 2012, 09:13 am »
Sorry for arriving late...

You should of read a book or two (Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" and Master Handbook of Acoustics) first.

From 300 Hz down you're best bet is multiple bass sources (3 or 4) to avoid standing wave peaks/troughs (locations change with frequency).  Here's possibly a simplier solution: http://www.spatialcomputer.com/page9/page10/page10.html

Above 300 Hz recommend something like GIK 244 panels (thick high density fiberglass) across front wall and on rear wall with diffusion (moderately loaded book cases) on side walls.

Keep in mind that EQ only works at a single location in the room, but is the finishing touch (if you want to go that far).