[mofunz]

Hey folks - new around these parts, and I can't even search yet!

The biggest weakness of my current system is the room itself, and to be frank, I'm stuck with it for the time being. What are some good techniques for making the most of a objectively terrible room like mine?

[Tyson]

How big is the room, what speakers do you have, do you have any room treatments yet and does the room have any openings to other rooms?

[mofunz]

Size - 10’ x 12’
Speakers - Electa Amator II
Treatments - none. 2 windows without curtains (just blinds), and a burbur (sp?) carpet.
Openings - a doorway that opens into a hallway, directly to the right of the listening position. There’s also a double closet on the right wall, doors removed and stuffed with full bookcases.

[sunnydaze]

If possible, try a diagonal setup in which the speakers are placed across a corner, and listening chair is in the opposite corner.


Edit:   and keep the speakers and listener as far from room boundaries as possible.  As others have stated, this takes the room out of play to a large degree, and increases the ratio of direct to reflected sound.

[toocool4]

Get close and personal with the speakers, in other words near field to minimise the room effect.

[newzooreview]

What is it that you are hearing that you would like to improve?

It looks like those speaker have a rear-firing passive radiator in back. Are you able to get them out from the walls a couple of feet?

Putting yourself in a 6-8 foot equilateral triangle with the speakers and listening position out from the wall (e.g. chair or couch also not right against the wall) could be a good starting point.

Distance from your head to the each speaker controls the centering of the image. For example, if a known centered sound (e.g., a voice in a mono recording) is sounding shifted to the right of center, then move the right speaker back a little or the left speaker forward a little. The sound appears shifted to the right because you are hearing sound from the right speaker slightly sooner than sound from the left speaker.

Toe-in will typically affect soundstage width and how pinpoint the placement of instruments is. I've found it works a bit differently for every speaker, but in your case it will be an advantage to try them toed in so that each faces you directly (looking at the speaker you only see the front of the speaker, not the sides). That would give you the least reflected sound from the walls interfering with what you are hearing. That may give you imaging or soundstage that you don't like, so toe them out in increments to see what that sounds like in comparison.

Put a good thick carpet or rug with pad beneath it on the floor. Floor reflections in a small room really matter and are the easiest to treat.

[dB Cooper]

Headphones

[mofunz]

If possible, try a diagonal setup in which the speakers are placed across a corner, and listening chair is in the opposite corner. And keep the speakers and listener as far from room boundaries as possible.  As others have stated, this takes the room out of play to a large degree, and increases the ratio of direct to reflected sound.

The diagonal approach is interesting - would I want to avoid another symmetrical orientation?

What is it that you are hearing that you would like to improve?

Thanks for the suggestions! I think my biggest issue is upper low end boom. I am in a triangle with the speakers like you suggest, and they are toed in a fair amount - the imaging seems good to my ear, but I’ll bet that it’s off-center, favoring the left side.

Get close and personal with the speakers, in other words near field to minimise the room effect.

Can an amp impact how effective this setup can be? As in, do some types of amps have trouble at low enough power for proper near field?

Thanks all! I’m surprised no one has mentioned acoustic panels - are those of any use in my scenario?

[sunnydaze]

Not sure what you mean by "would I want to avoid another symmetrical arrangement".......

A picture is worth 1000 words, view some of these images for what I mean re: diagonal setup.

https://www.google.com/search?q=diagonal+speaker+setup&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS813US813&sxsrf=APq-WBv5-mYudnI-TDYZG-zkyCmOCvSR0A:1643514666737&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGhZOfydj1AhUFZDUKHYSPA1cQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1396&bih=656&dpr=1.38

I have done it in some difficult rooms and it has been effective.   Worth a shot, especially if you can keep the speakers and yourself away from walls.

[mofunz]

Not sure what you mean by "would I want to avoid another symmetrical arrangement".......

A picture is worth 1000 words, view some of these images for what I mean re: diagonal setup.

I mean arranged perfectly symmetrical to the corner, I think like this example - https://images.app.goo.gl/7GdkdoAiArUtX4V9A

Right now they are symmetrical to the back wall, and wondered ignorantly if I’d be trading one problem for another.

[eichlerera1]

I have a 13'long X 13'wide X 8'high room.
1) Near field listening.
2) Thick pad and carpet.
3) Bass tube traps in corners (I used large, rolled up carpets).
4) Covered walls and ceilings with diffusing material.

Worked like a charm.....

[Tyson]

I have a 13'long X 13'wide X 8"high room.
1) Near field listening.
2) Thick pad and carpet.
3) Bass tube traps in corners (I used large, rolled up carpets).
4) Covered walls and ceilings with diffusing material.

Worked like a charm.....

Excellent advice.

[toocool4]

Thanks all! I’m surprised no one has mentioned acoustic panels - are those of any use in my scenario?

I did not mention acoustic treatment as you said you have a small room, any acoustic treatment that really has the horsepower to work will take up more space. Hence making your room even smaller.
But yes acoustic treatment would help.

[dpatters]

I have a secondary system in my home gym. Basically a 15x15 room.




GIK bass traps, corner traps, and PI Audio diffusers.

Works pretty well.

Don P

[sunnydaze]

I mean arranged perfectly symmetrical to the corner, I think like this example - https://images.app.goo.gl/7GdkdoAiArUtX4V9A

Right now they are symmetrical to the back wall, and wondered ignorantly if I’d be trading one problem for another.

Who knows?   

Try it and see.  And yes, I used symmetrical when I did it, and any photo / drawing I've seen was symmetrical.

[JLM]

Welcome! 

All good suggestions, but all are bandaids for a poor room as you stated.  I assume your room is 8ft tall (standard height).  Recommend reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction", he's a renown acoustician.  All rooms have bass resonances, especially small ones.  Somewhat counter intuitively smaller rooms have fewer resonances (bass peaks/dips).  They can easily be calculated, just divide the room dimension in feet into 1130 (the speed of sound in air in feet per second) to give the frequency.  So your room would have primary resonances at 94Hz, 113 Hz, and 141 Hz with other resonances at multiples of those.  As you can see 3 x 94 is equal to 2 x 141 (widest dimension and ceiling height).  A rug with padding underneath would help this.  Orientation of loudspeakers or listening position will have no effect on these peaks/dips, it is purely a function of room dimensions. 

If possible vary the distances between front and side walls (the ideal is in a 5:8 ratio).  Effective absorbers, like GIK (find them here at Audio Circle) 244 bass traps are 6.5 inches thick so yes would make the room even smaller.  Hope your loudspeakers are simple monitors (single driver or 2-way sealed/ported designs that would work best in a near field setup to allow the drivers to act as a point source). 

Fortunately for me was able to design my dedicated listening room when we built 17 years ago.  It is 8ft x 13ft x 21ft and well insulated.  In accordance with Toole I have multiple subwoofers (the most effective way to tame in-room bass peaks/dips) and ten GIK 244 2ft x 4ft panels.  In my room the panels make little difference, but in other rooms they make an immediate improvement.

Before you invest heavily in treatments, etc. recommend measuring the room.  REW (Room Equalization Wizard) is a free DSP (Digital Signal Processor) but does require a computer and a good microphone.  It's not easy to learn but is powerful and you can adjust the output to "dial out" the peaks/dips.  I've tried a couple of DSP's here in my room with mixed results according to me and my small audio club.  Warning: you can easily fool yourself into some weird settings and as Earl Geddes (another respected acoustician) says physical means of correction are the best.

[Letitroll98]

I have the same room.  Two setups work.  Speakers well out into the room 1/5th of the front wall width from the side walls, 1/3rd of the length into the room, then adjust for preferences.  Listening position close to the back wall with heavy treatment.  My back wall is the open closet full of clothes and boxes with an open doorway next to it.  Absorption at first reflection, bass traps in corners behind speakers.

Second is the diagonal suggested before.  It you get this right you can get imaging far outside of the speakers, even as far as the corners.  Diagonal is the preferable placement if you can't do a lot of treatment.  Diagonal also frees up more floor space for secondary listening chairs or office desk etc.  All the best on whatever you decide.

[mofunz]

Very much appreciate everyone’s advice - I have some homework to do!

I think I’ll try the diagonal first …

[Mikerodrig27]

Mofunz, there isn't a prefect remidy for a small room I would think diffusion would be key. Also, thick traps. Like 5" thick. The thing to consider is that any treatments that you make/buy will carry on into your next listening space. I would think that having the door open to the hallway would help a little.

Here is a calculator that you can estimate your room modes with:

https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=12&w=10&h=8&ft=true&r60=0.6

Listen nearfield to omit room issues. Choose speakers that are more directional.

dpatters, those Von Sweikert speakers are pretty sweet. I have an old pair of VR-4's that I need to commit to fixing up. The woofers were shot, magnets falling off etc. I measured some Dayton RS-225 which ended up being a perfect replacement (improvement actually). Now I gotta piece the speakers back together.

[pompon]

Here my room 9.5x12 x 8 (ceiling)

This can you give you some idea ...