AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Triode Wire Labs => Topic started by: Randy on 18 Aug 2015, 11:19 pm
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A while back I got a DIgital American pc and put it with my CD player. The improvement in sound was immediately apparent. I use a Class D amp. What are the opinions about whether I can expect the same jump in sound quality if I get another one for the amp? Both will be plugged into a PI AUdio minibus which in turn is connected to the outlet by about eight feet of power cables, that are pretty good I think, but not Triode, but I am compelled to take things one step at a time. Will the improvement be marginal or more like what happened with the CD player.
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I don't know but I suspect that you will get the same degree of improvement. A High Current (which you should get for your amps) Digital American made a large difference on my DAC. And then a regular Digital American made another large difference - which I really didn't expect - on my Mac Mini.
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I recently went thru a similar process. I started with the Dig Am. on my DAC. Then went to 7+ (w/ Furu) on my amps. Then inserted an UberBuss. Then completed my system with DA's (HP on Uber). Then speaker cables and IC's. After all were broken-in, my system has never sounded better. More open, detailed and smoother overall.
I changed out all Shunyata PC's (Black Mamba HC/CX or above), Shunyata Hydra H8 v.II conditioner, and Synergistic Research Element SC's & IC's. So not too shabby of gear.
I can't tell you which specifically added the most improvement to my system but all combined it was a definite step-up. Hats off to Pete and Dave E. for their products and great customer service!
Best,
Jay M.
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I concur! I've used a High Power Digital American on 3 different class-D amps or integrated amps now and have been extremely pleased each time. I'm currently using one on a Devialet 200 with the low powered Digital American on my CD transport, all plugged in to my Uber. You have to spend a lot of $$ to beat what Pete and Dave offer. Worse, you can easily spend a whole lot of $$ and still not come close.
Good luck with it!
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MDConnelly - did you ever use the "low powered" DA cable on your Dev 200 and if so what if any discernible differences were there once you inserted the "high power" version?
I have the low powered version on my Dev 200, don't remember if the high powered version was available when I ordered mine or maybe I felt the cost differential wasn't worth it (Us poor Canucks pay 35% exchange rate these days...) despite not knowing first hand what the differences in my system could/would have been. The Dev 200 is a relatively efficient amp design as compared to my former Bryston 7Bs (where I used Pete's 12G American cords) so maybe I thought I could get away with the low powered version?
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Ron - no actually, I didn't use the standard power DA on the Devialet. But before I picked up the Devialet, I did start out using the standard power on a NAD M2 integrated amp before picking up the high power. On that integrated, the high power was an improvement. Greater bass impact and better PRAT which drove a more engaging presentation. Would that hold true on the Devialet? My guess is yes but haven't tried. I did talk with Pete about it and I think he's had at least one Devialet customer that preferred the standard power DA because the bass from the high-power was a bit too dominant in his system. Of course, the Devialet does provide the means to tweak via digital tone controls if needed.
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Thanks, guys.
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Well, well, well a great companion for your Digital American PC is the new PIAudio Digibuss. IMO the best product so far from PIAudio. PM me for info. Scary good.
charles
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PM sent.
Don P.
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My best audio purchases this year were Pete's fantastic power cords. I now have four 7 + on my tube mono amps and both the standard DA and the high powered DA in my system. With each new cord I got a very worth while improvement moving toward the sound of live music and away from hiFi. Curiosity got the best of me and I finally bought a TWL Silver Statement for my Auralic Vega. WOW!!! That cord plugged into the new Furutech GTX wall plug transformed my digital to a level of enjoyment I did't expect digital could ever provide. It's no wonder he ALWAYS gets mentioned as best of show, no matter what audio gear he teams up with at the audio shows. Great service, great product and a really nice guy. Hard to beat that combination.
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My best audio purchases this year were Pete's fantastic power cords. I now have four 7 + on my tube mono amps and both the standard DA and the high powered DA in my system. With each new cord I got a very worth while improvement moving toward the sound of live music and away from hiFi. Curiosity got the best of me and I finally bought a TWL Silver Statement for my Auralic Vega. WOW!!! That cord plugged into the new Furutech GTX wall plug transformed my digital to a level of enjoyment I did't expect digital could ever provide. It's no wonder he ALWAYS gets mentioned as best of show, no matter what audio gear he teams up with at the audio shows. Great service, great product and a really nice guy. Hard to beat that combination.
+1 Big time. I upgraded all of my power cords this year to TWL also. I have a 7+, a 10+, 2 digital Americans and 2 HP Digital Americans. These along with PI Audio UberBuss provide a great foundation for my system.
Don P.
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The combo of TWL and PIAudio is synergy personified. Both as we know alone stand well but together oh my !! Yes the silver statement is a great product.
charles
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I'm enjoying my new Digital American I got just after replacing a PS-Audio Premier with a rather unique UberBuss that I got from PI Audio in early November. This unit has a toggle switch to go between Uber mode and DigiBuss mode. It also has provisions for AC in: either a Frutech Rhodium IEC worth about $110 at VH Audio or a 32 amp Neutrik that is the big brother of the ones on Audience Adept Response and go for under $20. I also have a nice assortment of Duplex receptacles on hand to swap in to replace the 4 S & P duplexes it came with. I have a Maestro on hand as well as 2 new Furutech GTX (d) Rhodium to play with. I promised Dave that I would try to test his claim that for at least some components, these duplexes are every bit as good as the $100+ ones and that the expensive ones should be considered like different spices in the kitchen and give different flavors to the mix. I also promised to give my best efforts to identifying differences between settings by listening, and give him some feedback on the DigiBuss mode and the AC inlet hardware.
I figured on acting like an adult and only making one change at a time to prevent confounding variables from identifying what was happening to the sound. I expected that most settings or cord swaps would make audible changes as my system has become very transparent, but the magnitude of overall improvement with the installation of the Buss was so unexpectedly transformative that I had to postpone testing the different set-up options and establish a new baseline. What became obvious to me after about one day of burn-in and settling in that the overall improvements to my system had actually made CDs sound good - on my system - that I had to finally take them seriously as a source. Looking at the total 'when new' cost of my vinyl front end, cabling , phono stage, footers etc. compared to my digital side, I have kept things in balance at about 30 vinyl dollars to every 1 digital since I got my first Cal Audio player in 1988. I replace the OPPO 95 with a classic SONY SCD-1 sacd player that has been modded to the hilt by some of the crazy engineers whipped on by Positive Feedback about 10 years ago. With that baby in my system, I thought I was in digital Heaven. I have been using the UberBuss in DigiBuss mode and thought it couldn't get any better. I had tried several power cords in the Sony:
PS Audio Premier SC (about $1k/meter 2011)
CPCC Top Gun ($900 2005)
VH Flavor 4
Synergistics Research X2 master coupler avtive PC ($750 2003?)
The Master Coupler provided the best overall sound with the Sony and I thought I had really nailed it until I just had a hunch and bought a Digital American Source level cord for it. Until now, my digital gear has always been dressed in hand-me downs - power cords, footers, tweaks, ICs. I had expected some kind of sonic fireworks from its installation on the Sony, or at least something that stood up proudly and said "here I am - a great new power cord!" but it does not really work that way. In this role, in my system, the Digital American is no showoff in any way, and yet its presence was felt in my system right away as a profound feeling of well-being; that it was time to just kick back an listen and not to waste time or energy by trying to figure out how it got so good. The DA is more like Ben Webster where I was expecting Pharoh Sanders. Digital music now is just so clean. Glare is still there on some recordings but it is so negligible that I have to actually focus on it to find it when playing CDs. On SACDs it is now gone completely. The soundstage is so real it seems impossible to believe it is not analog.
After 3 weeks of listening to the Digital American cord, I think the biggest impact on my digital sound was that it does whatever needs to be done to clean garbage from the music. They will clean up anything and everything. I think this cable is a great match for my old CD player. It certainly is an overachiever.
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My best audio purchases this year were Pete's fantastic power cords. I now have four 7 + on my tube mono amps and both the standard DA and the high powered DA in my system. With each new cord I got a very worth while improvement moving toward the sound of live music and away from hiFi. Curiosity got the best of me and I finally bought a TWL Silver Statement for my Auralic Vega. WOW!!! That cord plugged into the new Furutech GTX wall plug transformed my digital to a level of enjoyment I did't expect digital could ever provide. It's no wonder he ALWAYS gets mentioned as best of show, no matter what audio gear he teams up with at the audio shows. Great service, great product and a really nice guy. Hard to beat that combination.
+1 Big time. I upgraded all of my power cords this year to TWL also. I have a 7+, a 10+, 2 digital Americans and 2 HP Digital Americans. These along with PI Audio UberBuss provide a great foundation for my system.
Don P.
I'm enjoying my new Digital American I got just after replacing a PS-Audio Premier with a rather unique UberBuss that I got from PI Audio in early November. This unit has a toggle switch to go between Uber mode and DigiBuss mode. It also has provisions for AC in: either a Frutech Rhodium IEC worth about $110 at VH Audio or a 32 amp Neutrik that is the big brother of the ones on Audience Adept Response and go for under $20. I also have a nice assortment of Duplex receptacles on hand to swap in to replace the 4 S & P duplexes it came with. I have a Maestro on hand as well as 2 new Furutech GTX (d) Rhodium to play with. I promised Dave that I would try to test his claim that for at least some components, these duplexes are every bit as good as the $100+ ones and that the expensive ones should be considered like different spices in the kitchen and give different flavors to the mix. I also promised to give my best efforts to identifying differences between settings by listening, and give him some feedback on the DigiBuss mode and the AC inlet hardware.
I figured on acting like an adult and only making one change at a time to prevent confounding variables from identifying what was happening to the sound. I expected that most settings or cord swaps would make audible changes as my system has become very transparent, but the magnitude of overall improvement with the installation of the Buss was so unexpectedly transformative that I had to postpone testing the different set-up options and establish a new baseline. What became obvious to me after about one day of burn-in and settling in that the overall improvements to my system had actually made CDs sound good - on my system - that I had to finally take them seriously as a source. Looking at the total 'when new' cost of my vinyl front end, cabling , phono stage, footers etc. compared to my digital side, I have kept things in balance at about 30 vinyl dollars to every 1 digital since I got my first Cal Audio player in 1988. I replace the OPPO 95 with a classic SONY SCD-1 sacd player that has been modded to the hilt by some of the crazy engineers whipped on by Positive Feedback about 10 years ago. With that baby in my system, I thought I was in digital Heaven. I have been using the UberBuss in DigiBuss mode and thought it couldn't get any better. I had tried several power cords in the Sony:
PS Audio Premier SC (about $1k/meter 2011)
CPCC Top Gun ($900 2005)
VH Flavor 4
Synergistics Research X2 master coupler avtive PC ($750 2003?)
The Master Coupler provided the best overall sound with the Sony and I thought I had really nailed it until I just had a hunch and bought a Digital American Source level cord for it. Until now, my digital gear has always been dressed in hand-me downs - power cords, footers, tweaks, ICs. I had expected some kind of sonic fireworks from its installation on the Sony, or at least something that stood up proudly and said "here I am - a great new power cord!" but it does not really work that way. In this role, in my system, the Digital American is no showoff in any way, and yet its presence was felt in my system right away as a profound feeling of well-being; that it was time to just kick back an listen and not to waste time or energy by trying to figure out how it got so good. The DA is more like Ben Webster where I was expecting Pharoh Sanders. Digital music now is just so clean. Glare is still there on some recordings but it is so negligible that I have to actually focus on it to find it when playing CDs. On SACDs it is now gone completely. The soundstage is so real it seems impossible to believe it is not analog.
After 3 weeks of listening to the Digital American cord, I think the biggest impact on my digital sound was that it does whatever needs to be done to clean garbage from the music. They will clean up anything and everything. I think this cable is a great match for my old CD player. It certainly is an overachiever.
Gents,
Thank you for your kind accolades on the "Digital American"... I sincerely appreciate your feedback!
Happy Holidays,
Pete
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I've been TWLed (or it it TPed? ;-) for quite some time now and there's just no going back.
Thank you Pete and I hope you have an absolutely wonderful Holiday season!
Mike
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Another rave review in Audiogon. Here's the link and the full text.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/triode-wire-labs-digital-american-power-cord (https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/triode-wire-labs-digital-american-power-cord)
I've never written listening notes as quickly as I did after I put in these PCs. And it was legible to boot.
These TWL PCs from Pete are the best investment I've made in quite some time. I say that because unlike what I've spent on speaker cables, interconnects, conditioners and the like, these two PCs set me back a grand and I don't regret it one bit. That is an investment, but so well worth it, and a stone cold bargain compared to what's being charged out there.
What good is a great amp or SACD player if you don't (not can't) extract all that is intended from it? When you limit your choices on PCs, you start looking elsewhere for improvements and can end up spending much more than needed to since a "better" pair of speakers or a new amp or source will most certainly set you back more than a decent PC.
The first thing I noticed, like a slap in the face, was just how rolled off my highs were. Everyone comments on how substantial the bass improvement is when getting better PCs but it was the highs that first caught my attention. Open, airy, shiny and shimmering highs with distinct wavering on cymbals as they decayed. That metallic upsetting of the keys of a xylophone along with the note itself. There was a reduction of sibilance with female vocals right down to just what naturally occurs. Piano keys were more percussive as you can now clearly hear the strings struck before the soundboard floats the notes. It's amazing just how essential the highs are to all notes as without them, harmonics and overtones become truncated. I've been in the dark too long.
The above were my impressions with just my SACD player being fed by the TWL PC. With my integrated, everything became more robust but without the bombast. There are now higher levels of presence with very solid underpinnings. I can now appreciate more artistry and intent in the playing with the clearest separation of instruments.
Down in the bass, everything is much tighter and refined, and Pete told me to give a few hundred hours and then tell him about it. These PCs are like an audio bathysphere, taking me down deep into the audio ocean for a really clear look at just what lurks down there. Nothing is artificially magnified, just focused, controlled, tuneful and toned. Big when it needs to be, subtle and distinct when called for. The only limits to the bass are from my monitor but until I live in a bigger space, I won't need a sub.
Needless to say, the silence between notes and cuts can be deafening as everything now stands out, leaving only a kind of inky black between. To paraphrase Downey's character in Sherlock Holmes: "I hear everything, it's my curse." It's most apropos.
Before I sign off, let me address the construction of these PCs. They're beautifully made with connectors that border on eye candy. They somehow assist in quelling noise, both digital and vibrations in ways that are beyond me but if what I'm hearing is correct, it's working. Give Pete a call, there's really no downside as you have 30 days to audition them but as he told me, no one really returns them. :-)
Back with further listening news and all the best,
Nonoise
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Just installed the High Current DA in my Arion hybrid class"D"monoblocks. No turning back. If Arion were smart they would offer this PC with their amps.
charles
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Just installed the High Current DA in my Arion hybrid class"D"monoblocks. No turning back. If Arion were smart they would offer this PC with their amps.
charles
Gents, after experimenting with HC DA against the Std. DA in all components all I can say is just do it. The HC directly compared to the HC version was clearly apparent. Even more natural with an added ease like headroom from your amp.
Tone is better bass is deeper, highs are more natural. Just better in every area. If economics is NOT an issue replace every Std. DA with a HC DA. You'll never look back except for your check book.
charles
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Gents, after experimenting with HC DA against the Std. DA in all components all I can say is just do it. The HC directly compared to the HC version was clearly apparent. Even more natural with an added ease like headroom from your amp.
Tone is better bass is deeper, highs are more natural. Just better in every area. If economics is NOT an issue replace every Std. DA with a HC DA. You'll never look back except for your check book.
charles
Charles, have you heard the same differences on source components as on amps? I totally agree with you when it comes to using the High Power Digital American on amps or integrated - they work wonders on my Devialet Experts. But I've been using the standard Digital American on my CD transport and hear no difference when compared to the High Power version on it - they both sound equally awesome there. Don't have experience on a lot of components, but I think the standard DA works great on most source components that don't require high current.
P.S... Recently got Dave @ PI Audio to build me a new UberBuss with integrated Digibuss outlets AND an integrated TWL Silver Statement PC from Pete. My system has never sounded better.
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Yes the source components improved as well. That is my main point. If one owns Std. DA try HCDA and be happier in every component.
charles
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Charles, have you heard the same differences on source components as on amps? I totally agree with you when it comes to using the High Power Digital American on amps or integrated - they work wonders on my Devialet Experts. But I've been using the standard Digital American on my CD transport and hear no difference when compared to the High Power version on it - they both sound equally awesome there. Don't have experience on a lot of components, but I think the standard DA works great on most source components that don't require high current.
P.S... Recently got Dave @ PI Audio to build me a new UberBuss with integrated Digibuss outlets AND an integrated TWL Silver Statement PC from Pete. My system has never sounded better.
It's all about SYNERGY - some may prefer the High Power Digital American (HPDA). I designed it for higher power consuming components (amps, power conditioners, power bars, etc.) but certain lower power consuming devices (DAC's, transports, servers, preamps, etc.) MAY benefit from its use... The standard "Digital American" is "no slouch", IMHO and I use it on my BorderPatrol DAC with superb results...
My $0.02,
Pete
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It's all about SYNERGY - some may prefer the High Power Digital American (HPDA). I designed it for higher power consuming components (amps, power conditioners, power bars, etc.) but certain lower power consuming devices (DAC's, transports, servers, preamps, etc.) MAY benefit from its use... The standard "Digital American" is "no slouch", IMHO and I use it on my BorderPatrol DAC with superb results...
My $0.02,
Pete
What's the actual difference between the two cables?
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What's the actual difference between the two cables?
The High Power Digital American (HPDA) has a much larger gauge (AWG) and the geometry of construction is different as well.
Cheers,
Pete
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I found the HC to be better on my DAC (EE DAC Plus, at the time) than the regular DA.
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I'll find out how a Digital American sounds on my Lampizator Atlantic in just a few days :thumb:
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I'll find out how a Digital American sounds on my Lampizator Atlantic in just a few days :thumb:
The HC DA sounds really good on my Lampi Amber II. Let us know how you like it on the Atlantic.
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I'll find out how a Digital American sounds on my Lampizator Atlantic in just a few days :thumb:
WHAT??? Your'e getting a Lampi? O.K., now I'm exited for you.
Let us know what you think when you get it, I'd be very curious as to what you think.
Greg
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Gents, after experimenting with HC DA against the Std. DA in all components all I can say is just do it. The HC directly compared to the HC version was clearly apparent. Even more natural with an added ease like headroom from your amp.
Tone is better bass is deeper, highs are more natural. Just better in every area. If economics is NOT an issue replace every Std. DA with a HC DA. You'll never look back except for your check book.
charles
Straight up hitting me with a casual dose of upgraditis :o
Am currently thinking of getting the HP DA to replace my 7+ on my integrated amp.
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Straight up hitting me with a casual dose of upgraditis :o
Am currently thinking of getting the HP DA to replace my 7+ on my integrated amp.
The 7+ is a great power cord, but what integrated are you using? If it has a class D amp section or has an integrated DAC, I suspect the HPDA would make a nice improvement. Of course, with Pete's trial period, it may be worth giving it a compare regardless.
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I just wanted to say that these power cords have made an incredible difference in my system. I am using the regular Digital American cords on both my NuForce MCP-18 and Oppo BDP-83. I am also using the Digital American HP on both an Uberbuss and my Yggdrasil DAC.
I wanted to use the HP cords on my Ncore amps but after I removed one from the DAC and replaced it with a home made cord. I have two HP cords and wanted to see what happened when I plugged in the amps. Boy that was a mistake. I lost the magic which creates the illusion of depth in the sound stage. It was an extremely disappointing result and I instantly had buyers remorse. I took a deep breath unplugged everything and hooked up the uber and placed all the cords on the source components. Hooked up the amps back up to some 1/2 meter PCs i purchased from Welborne and Wow, I got all of my magic back and then some. There is much greater depth to my discs and in some recordings I am hearing the sound stage form further into my listing room. This is a very cool experience.
I have learned two things with my system. One, power cords make a huge improvement and Two, stop wasting money and time trying to create the holy grail audio cable. These cords are so much better than any of my feeble home brew attempts.
Ive had great success with your Power Cables and your 2 meter XLR IC and look forward to lining up some bi-wire speaker cables in the future. (I think those will have a greater immediate impact than 2 power cords for my home built mono Ncore amps.)
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Yes Sire I would strongly recommend you try an HC for your Nuforce amp. The HC Digital worked wonders on my Arion class"D" hybrid mono blocks. was using Digital American before. The 7+ is killer for Ubers BTW.
If you like the cords then also try Furutech GTX duplex outlets ,they have a marvelous synergy.
charles
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So the 7+ would be better than the digital American hp for the uberbuss?
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So the 7+ would be better than the digital American hp for the uberbuss?
In my personal opinion, both "Seven Plus" and "High Power Digital American" are excellent choices for the UberBUSS... The "High Power Digital American" may provide a smudge more lower bass & effortless highs while still remaining "balanced" throughout...
My $0.02,
Pete
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The 7+ is a great power cord, but what integrated are you using? If it has a class D amp section or has an integrated DAC, I suspect the HPDA would make a nice improvement. Of course, with Pete's trial period, it may be worth giving it a compare regardless.
I'm using a Densen DM-10 Mk2 integrated amp. I've corresponded with Pete about this and he thinks that the HP DA would pair well with the Densen and I trust him fully! Will be sending in my 7+ soon :) Can't wait.
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So the 7+ would be better than the digital American hp for the uberbuss?
Maybe. As Pete said a smidgen of bass and top end improvement with HP. My reco would be HP for components 7+ for Ubers. That is what I use personally at home and at the shows.
charles