[albee]

I have read reviews at Enjoy (hard to decipher) and TNT (best) and still have a question that TS-1 owners/listeners might help me with:  Top end, how does it sound?  

I have seen the plots of both the 207 and 206 and noticed that the 206 has a much more level response past about 10khz.  However, the 207 is the suggested driver for a BR cabinet.

I like "larger" music:  classical, new age, electronica, so upper midrange and topend are important.  There is a lot of zips, zings, and tings in the music I listen to.  

Does the TS-1 deliver?  Would anyone consider them as "laidback" or treble-challenged?  Do they have the raucous midrange blare of Lowthers? Do they have a natural sound or do they tend to sound "wooden" like some lowthers I have heard?  

Thanks.

[Bwanagreg]

My $0.02 as a TS-1 owner.  Please note that all comments apply only after at least 100 hours of break-in.

The treble never strikes me as missing in action. In fact it is very well defined and clean, with amazing transient response. Maybe it's because I had the lowest expectations for the high end, but it really was a pleasant surprise.

I have never heard Lowthers myself, but based on the desciption of the "shout" I would say that (after 100 hours) the TS-1's have only a residual trace of it. Certain flute and upper-mid range piano passages, especially if closely miked, sound too forward. I suspect that some of the sound in my system may be due to my Sovtek EL-34's. I have Electro Harmonix tubes on order to see how that changes the sound. I have been consistently impressed with how the TS-1's reveal changes in equipment, but the downside is that system matching is even more critical. My entire front end (especially the digital stuff) needs to be updated as well, and my room is a bit lively, so I'm convinced that major improvements remain to be gained.

For electronic music (FSOL has been in heavy rotation lately) these speakers really deliver. Even if the extreme top end is reduced in level (I'm over 40 and probably lost some of the top 1/2 octave anyway), I don't care or notice because the extreme clarity and detail in the mid band draws you in so much. Their performance on large-scale classical surprised me. They do tend to make a large symphony a little smaller, but the tonality of strings and brass is dead on and the transient response (especially on percussion) is outstanding. Of course 1812 Overture with cannons, well I won't go there. New Age (I'm not a huge fan but have a few recordings) can highlight the midrange forwardness sometimes, particularly with clarinet (e.g. Enya).

Just my opinion.

[albee]

Thanks for the info.  I'm a boomer and my hearing checks out btwn 12.5 and 14khz.  That's where the 207 seems to start dropping.

Sounds like whatever is going on after break in could be handled with toe-in, cabling, and tube selection.

[Bwanagreg]

That is my take as well. I'll post how the new tubes sound.

Thanks for mentioning cables. I have tried a few different types. My old MIT Terminator 2's sounded bad to me, although the bass response was very good. I tried homemade 30 gauge magnet wire twisted pairs - that was in some respects the best sound I have achieved. The magnet wire smoothed out the upper range and had great imaging, but in the end the weak bass response made me pull them out. I am currently using Cardas Crosslink. They have most of the nice attributes of magnet wire (except the price!), although the soundstage is not as wide. They have the best detail I have heard so far.

There is another TS-1 (Grande) owner who swears by Mapleshade cables. Louis himeself is taken by the Moray James cables he is going to be re-selling. I hope to hear them at Lima. I have never heard such striking differences between cables in my system, so the search continues.

[Bwanagreg]

I got a set of the Electro Harmonix el-34's last week, and have about 12 hours on them, so break-in continues.

Even now, these tubes have almost totally removed the upper-midrange problem I had. It must have been tube glare from the Sovteks. These EH tubes are sweet! The bass is still a bit weak, but I think it is improving. Wow, what a difference! The Sovteks were clearly very ragged in the upper midrange.

I have also been experimenting with sound treatment. I had a source of early reflections between the speakers that were doing bad things, including contributing to my "flute problem" (that sounds bad - my flute is not at issue   I mean, oh never mind ). Another worthwhile incremental improvement. I am now getting the best imaging with a tiny bit of toe-in.

And to think the first thing I thought of when I saw the Electro Harmonix name was the Big Muff Pi guitar fuzz box. Thank god the tubes don't sound anything like that.  

[albee]

Thanks for the update--keep us posted.

How about input tubes?  Any plans there?  Let me know how that upper midrange, treble continues to develop.  Thanks again.

[Bwanagreg]

I am using a cheap AMC hybrid amp (2030s) - no input tubes. I think I've taken this amp as far as it will go. I plan on demoting it to rear channel use in a mixed music/HT system, and will be looking for a better front channel amp. Louis likes the Opera amps and will be using them in Lima. I'm also interested in the little Quicksilver amps, and will be checking out the ASL stuff (I love the one with the big Russian 6C33!). My digital front end is 10 years old and will also be upgraded eventually. This is like remodeling my house - we replaced the front door, noticed how bad everything else looked, and proceeded to completely remodel the house over the next 5 years.

[Bwanagreg]

An update to the upper mid/lower treble comments I made. I still have the AMC (I'm working on the vidoe end of things at the moment), but I made two changes.

A week ago I installed Hal-O dampers on the EL-34s. Yet another source of glare reduced! Also the low level detail is quite a bit cleaner.

Today I added more 8" thick acoustical wedge foam in between the speakers, strategically placed to reduce reflections from shelves in-between the speakers. The foam is placed right next to the inner edge of the speakers. I had a little foam there before (2 12" squares) but added 4 more squares. Wow! The detail I am able to resolve in the soundstage is now the best I've ever heard in my system. Overdubbing and "layering" is now very easy to discern. One of my favorite "test" disks is His Name Is Alive - Home is In Your Head. It's a low budget DIY recording, which means most of the sounds were recorded direct to tape and there are a lot of subtle effects in the mix that can be hard to resolve - not any more! It's always interesting to hear new things in a recording you've had for 12 years.

Next up: a pair of Mapleshade cables should be delivered later this week.

I think Moray James made the comment on this board that people sometimes blame Louis' speakers for problems elsewhere in their system - they are so revealing. It's clear I haven't fully realized their potential yet. Every improvement elsewhere makes a fine sounding speaker sound even better.

[albee]

I use both Mapleshade IC's and speaker cable.  Very happy with them.  Great value for the money.

[Bill Baker]

"I think Moray James made the comment on this board that people sometimes blame Louis' speakers for problems elsewhere in their system - they are so revealing. "

  Yes, they are VERY revealing. I have been running the TS3s in my system with our RAM 301 Signature Hybrid, stock Music Hall CD-25 and silver interconnects. The RAM 301 is also very revealing which happens to bring out a lot of detail from the recordings especially when paired with Louis' speakers. I don't find this to be a "problem" but rather interesting. No detail is lost.

  If you are looking for a warmer presentation, I have found that running the Omega's with a more seductive sounding tube such as the EL34 would soften things up. I have the first of the RAM CD players coming in next week which are 5687 tube based. This should add a bit more warmth.
 We'll see how they pair!!

[doug s.]

greg,

if yer digital front end is 10 years old, replacing it will make ya tink ys died & went to heaven!     there's a *lot* of fantastic-sounding dacs for $200-$800, (depending on model, & if ya wanna diy), that will outperform megabucks digital hardware even only a few years old.  and, it is also sonically competitive w/the *current* spendy stuff.  check this site & elsewhere, for scott nixon's dac, the modded art di/o, the channel islands dac, msb link-dac, just to name a few...

doug s.

[Bwanagreg]

Doug,

I heard a Modwright level I mod of a Perp Tech P-3a (did I get all that right from memory - true geek test stuff) and was pretty blown away. Alas, money is finite. I'm getting a front projection system this week, and then will start listening to surround processors. I hope to get one with (at a minimum) superior sound to my current Adcom DAC in stereo. Then, later, get a really good 2-channel unit.

I haven't heard of the Channel Islands unit. Thanks for the tip.

[doug s.]

greg, if money is an issue, get an art di/o for  ~$100 delivered, then mod it yourself - lotsa info on how to do it.  
http://home.ca.inter.net/~cfraser/DIOFAQ.htm

i had little/no diy experience whatsoever before i modded mine!  :>)  yer total investment will be ~$200, & you'll have something sonically competitive w/anything made at any price...  i'm not saying the modded di/ is best - i dunno, haven't tried everyting.  but it's in the same category as the great stuff - at this performance level personal preferences & system synergy make the difference.  but, for $200, jeez, it's a no-brainer...

doug s.

[Bwanagreg]

Doug,

Thanks for the link. That is a crazy cheap price. Once I finish my other DIY projects (not electronics related) I'll probably give it a try.

[Bwanagreg]

One last update to this thread. I received the Mapleshade cables last week an have put about 20-30 hours on them, both movies and music.

I have tried MIT Terminator 2s, Cardas Twinlinks, homemade twisted pair magnet wire speakers, and now the Mapleshade Clearviews. The Clearviews sounded better than the other three right out of the box. The upper- mid region is extremely smooth and even aggresive sounding movie soundtracks are bearable (if they sounded too smooth I would suspect the speakers were missing something!).  Well recorded movies with good music content sound really nice. I watched part of Crouching Tiger last night and the drum compositions playing behind the fight scenes were so good they distracted me from watching the images. Voices sound incredible as you would expect from this design.

My acid test CD for upper midrange nastiness testing is the Bill Frisell Quartet disk. It has some very tight harmonies (sometimes dissonant) involving trumpet, trombone, violin, and guitar (check out "Convict 13") that spotlight any brightness or other problems in this region. When I was first breaking in the TS-1, using MIT cables and cheap EL-34s, the sound would literally penetrate into my skull (OK, maybe not literally) during certain sections. Ouch! After break-in, and all of the system changes changes documented in this thread, and now the addition of the Clearview cables, the sound is fantastic: smooth, detailed, dynamic, very listenable.

If you have the Omegas definitley consider the Mapleshade cables. This is a great combination.