AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: aniwolfe on 2 May 2023, 03:17 pm
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Hello Audio Circle Members
I am currently looking for a clear, forward sounding NON TUBE based Power Amp or Integrated Amp. I have used Primaluna Evo 300 (tube rolled a lot), Pass Labs XA-25 and LTA 40. The LTA was probably the most forward and detailed but I don't own it anymore. The Pass Labs was too laid back.
Any suggestions New or Used in the $2000-3500 range are welcomed?
I have been researching YBA, Primare, Yamaha, Bel Canto ...if you have any thought on these Brands, let know. But overall looking for any suggestions.
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I'm not sure what forward sounding means but I've been comparing a Naim Uniti Nova and Hegel H390 with my X3s and of the two the Naim is my favorite. In your budget there are plenty of pre-owned Uniti Atoms available that you could try.
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Thanks...Forward presentation...think closer to the music. Low level detail pushed closer to the listener.
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One of the things I like most about the Nova is that the detail in bass notes beats out the Hegel, very controlled and very musical. The Hegel is a tiny bit more laid back in the upper frequencies which comes across as better clarity in the Nova. Beyond the sound characteristics, the streaming and control functions are more evolved with the Nova and the industrial design is a thing of beauty.
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This is a very well reviewed solid state amplifier in your price range made by one of our site sponsors. The reviewer is a professional recording engineer:
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/07/09/audio-by-van-alstine-dva-m225-monoblock-amplifiers-review/
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Slightly out of your price range, but this Esoteric is an exceptionally clear sounding amp:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb4af0-esoteric-a-03-solid-state?refsource=hifishark
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Look at the giant killer LSA Warp-1. $1100 delivered. I am NOT a Dealer for it. Read Steve Stones review.
charles
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Look at the giant killer LSA Warp-1. $1100 delivered. I am NOT a Dealer for it. Read Steve Stones review.
charles
Based on that review...very much what I am looking for. However, I think I might try the Van Alstine Set 120 first...I got a good deal on a brand new unit. If it doesn't wake up the Spatials, I will then try the LSA.
Anyone else with amp suggestions?
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https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649914712-coda-11-power-amplifier-100-wpc-precision-bias-class-a/ Killer bass and speed and musical
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649978227-lsa-voyager-gan-350-as-new/ Newer class D design.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649861619-belles-350a/ Musical and can drive anything
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649974638-pass-xa305/ Pure class will drive your speaker superbly.
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I just pulled the trigger on Orchard Audio Starkrimson Ultra mono blocks. That’s outside your price range, but the stereo unit at $2650 is not: https://orchardaudio.com/product/starkrismon_stereo_ultra_500w_stereo_amp/
If your not in a hurry, you can request to join the amp tour: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/
Or just buy it and return with in 15 days, if it’s not what you’re looking for. There are many reviews in the that thread.
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I just pulled the trigger on Orchard Audio Starkrimson Ultra mono blocks. That’s outside your price range, but the stereo unit at $2650 is not: https://orchardaudio.com/product/starkrismon_stereo_ultra_500w_stereo_amp/
If your not in a hurry, you can request to join the amp tour: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/
Or just buy it and return with in 15 days, if it’s not what you’re looking for. There are many reviews in the that thread.
Tom Martin whom I trust (THE ABSOLUTE SOUND), spoke positively of this amplifier. Might be a great choice.
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I will have a Brand New AVA Set 120 Power Amp tomorrow to test out. We shall see if this fits the bill. Thanks for all your suggestions.
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I am interested in your impressions of the AVA amp. The Set 120 was on my shortlist a while back. If your time with the AVA does not work out you may want to check into the Sugden A21 SE Sig. It is 30 watts in Class A. I alternate between a LTA Z40 and the Sugden on Spatial M4 Triode Masters. I find the Sugden to be a much fuller and relaxed presentation, without loss detail of the LTA Z40. And you don't have to worry about tubes.
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I just pulled the trigger on Orchard Audio Starkrimson Ultra mono blocks. That’s outside your price range, but the stereo unit at $2650 is not: https://orchardaudio.com/product/starkrismon_stereo_ultra_500w_stereo_amp/
If your not in a hurry, you can request to join the amp tour: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/orchard-audio-starkrimson-stereo-ultra-amp-tour.1148415/
Or just buy it and return with in 15 days, if it’s not what you’re looking for. There are many reviews in the that thread.
Thank you for your support. How are you liking the monoblocks?
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I will have a Brand New AVA Set 120 Power Amp tomorrow to test out. We shall see if this fits the bill. Thanks for all your suggestions.
If that does not work out, consider the AVA 225 monoblocks. I reviewed them for AVA. The sound great and are very dynamic. I found them forward sounding in 2 different systems.
The Primare I series integrateds sound great. But they are probably out of your price range. They Cary Audio SL 300.2d Integrated amp sounds great. My son bought on an it is very dynamic and clear sounding. You may be able to find one used as they list for almost $6K.
The Parasound A21 plus is also worth a look. It is much better than the older A21.
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I am interested in your impressions of the AVA amp. The Set 120 was on my shortlist a while back. If your time with the AVA does not work out you may want to check into the Sugden A21 SE Sig. It is 30 watts in Class A. I alternate between a LTA Z40 and the Sugden on Spatial M4 Triode Masters. I find the Sugden to be a much fuller and relaxed presentation, without loss detail of the LTA Z40. And you don't have to worry about tubes.
To my surprise the AVA 120 amp has surpassed my expectations. I enjoyed it much more than the Pass Labs XA25 I owned. Sometimes less is more. The 120 is dynamic, smooth yet detailed and just fun to listen to. I would think it should cost over $3k to be honest. Something to be said about components well designed with less parts. Highly recommended.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253143)
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If that does not work out, consider the AVA 225 monoblocks. I reviewed them for AVA. The sound great and are very dynamic. I found them forward sounding in 2 different systems.
The Primare I series integrateds sound great. But they are probably out of your price range. They Cary Audio SL 300.2d Integrated amp sounds great. My son bought on an it is very dynamic and clear sounding. You may be able to find one used as they list for almost $6K.
The Parasound A21 plus is also worth a look. It is much better than the older A21.
I’m loving the DVA 225s with my X3’s now. Comparing them to the Class D Atma Spheres.
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To my surprise the AVA 120 amp has surpassed my expectations. I enjoyed it much more than the Pass Labs XA25 I owned. Sometimes less is more. The 120 is dynamic, smooth yet detailed and just fun to listen to. I would think it should cost over $3k to be honest. Something to be said about components well designed with less parts. Highly recommended.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=253143)
Wow, that’s a lot of goodness for the price. Don’t doubt that you like it more than the XA25 but I own an XA25 and an XA30.5 and I’m not sure I could ask for anything more. Driving M3 Sapphires. I love the idea of getting better sound for fewer dollars, so good on ya for your discovery.
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I’m loving the DVA 225s with my X3’s now. Comparing them to the Class D Atma Spheres.
Keep us posted on your final synopsis between the two.
Thanks
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A little late to the game here...
I have a pair of X5's which are I believe about 97db efficient.
My current amp is about 20 high quality tube watts. I have been happy with it however this week I put an 80watt solid state amp in the system.
The speakers became much more dynamic with greater grip on the music. This has made me rethink my setup. I do not think that I could live with the particular 80 watt amp long-term as it is a bit bright but it did make me think that there must be an amp out there with the refinement of my 20 watt amp and the dynamics of the 80 watt amp. It might need to be a solid state amp.
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The AVA DVA 225s are just such an amp for me. I've also loved the DAC Megaschino and several GAN amps but I believe the AVA is the best of the bunch.
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A little late to the game here...
I have a pair of X5's which are I believe about 97db efficient.
My current amp is about 20 high quality tube watts. I have been happy with it however this week I put an 80watt solid state amp in the system.
The speakers became much more dynamic with greater grip on the music. This has made me rethink my setup. I do not think that I could live with the particular 80 watt amp long-term as it is a bit bright but it did make me think that there must be an amp out there with the refinement of my 20 watt amp and the dynamics of the 80 watt amp. It might need to be a solid state amp.
Try a different tube amp.
Watts don't mean squat. It's all about build quality. At one point, I had 250-watt solid-state monoblocks with 95 dB speakers. Now I have an 8-watt tube amp and it is far more dynamic than those monos could ever dream of and much more refined.
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Doggie
You don't mention if the 80 watter is integrated of not but I've always been a fan of mixing tube pres and amps. I just got off of using my Don Sachs 300b with his tube preamp. Switched to a Holo Serene KTE pre and I really love the combo as things were just a little too tubey for me. You may consider a tube pre to take out the brightness of that amp if it's not an integrated.
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Doggie
You don't mention if the 80 watter is integrated of not but I've always been a fan of mixing tube pres and amps. I just got off of using my Don Sachs 300b with his tube preamp. Switched to a Holo Serene KTE pre and I really love the combo as things were just a little too tubey for me. You may consider a tube pre to take out the brightness of that amp if it's not an integrated.
It was a Bluesound Powernode Integrated. I bought it to use in a second TV system with some less efficient speakers. On a lark decided to try it in my main system which uses a Lampizator Baltic 3 tube DAC and a Linear Tube Audio 20 watt Integrated amp with my X5s. I have had many, many combinations of tube and SS amps and preamps. With my Spatials I have only used the LTA Integrated so far. It did cross my mind to go back to an LTA Pre with a SS amp. In the past I have favored Pass Labs First Watt amps but they are usually low power.
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Try a different tube amp.
Watts don't mean squat. It's all about build quality. At one point, I had 250-watt solid-state monoblocks with 95 dB speakers. Now I have an 8-watt tube amp and it is far more dynamic than those monos could ever dream of and much more refined.
Just curious. Are you using a 300B amp on Spatials that you own or are you using another brand of speaker?
I have owned many tube amps: from .75 watts to 40 watts. 71A, 45, 2A3, El84 300B, 6550 etc. Once you get much past 20 watts you are moving into "space heater" territory, with multiple output devices per channel. I have owned a couple of 300B amps. It seems that unless you spend a LOT of money ("build quality") you will get a magical midrange but with tapered off extremes ...even if you do get good dynamics.
My only point was that one might also consider wattage when powering Spatial speakers. I cannot make a recommendation for other speakers but I could see benefit with my X5s in at least that one category. The speakers have always seemed refined with spooky clarity but I had never felt them as powerful before now.
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I used a Modwright KWH-225i with my X5's and it was the best of many preamp/amps I tried. It is an integrated with 6922 preamp stage, solid state output stage, and lots of power. The first 25w or so are class A though. With Upscale Telefunkens, it's still slightly on the warm side, which suits my taste. Great amplifier!
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It seems that unless you spend a LOT of money ("build quality") you will get a magical midrange but with tapered off extremes ...even if you do get good dynamics.
Unfortunately, really good tube gear is expensive. Spatial's new 300B tube monos will run $20K and that's literally a bargain. Not sure about the tapered off extremes, though. The brand of tubes matters a lot, and again -- unfortunately, the best tubes are ridiculously expensive and it requires experimenting with them to find the sound you prefer.
My speakers are DIY, not Spatials. The X4 Ultra was my dream speaker, but I couldn't afford it.