[Dmason]

K+H 80.  The new Genelec 8 and G series w TI amps as well.

[Rocket_Ronny]

For my money I would go with Anad's suggestion of the JBL 708p. Well actually, I would go with the JBL 705p and mate it with my Rythmik FM8s. The 705s have the same tweeter and cross over at the same frequency. Will not play as loud but when crossed to the subs should come pretty close and they should image better. A poor man's M2.

Rocket Ronny

[poseidonsvoice]

For my money I would go with Anad's suggestion of the JBL 708p. Well actually, I would go with the JBL 705p and mate it with my Rythmik FM8s. The 705s have the same tweeter and cross over at the same frequency. Will not play as loud but when crossed to the subs should come pretty close and they should image better. A poor man's M2.

Rocket Ronny

I’m all for implementing subs (in multiples) but I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that the 705p’s will image “better” than the 708p’s given JBL’s extraordinarily consistent polar response curves of the entire line of
M2, 708, and 705 series. The 708’s will just reach higher peak SPL’s and have better dynamics vs. the 705’s, given the larger 8inch woofer. A particularly important point is that the compression tweeter on the 708 and 705 are the same and the waveguides are similar with a small shift in the crossover point (its lower for the 708).

Basically if you put the M2, 708p, 705p on a carousel and were blinded with regards to which speaker was playing you would have a hard time telling them apart unless the particular recording was dynamic enough (or had deeper bass content) to illustrate the differences in woofer size.

The whole notion of a “narrower baffle makes for a better imaging speaker” stems from a forum here on AC that I try to avoid 
 

Best,
Anand.

[JDUBS]

Hey guys, thanks for all the input.  I had the 708's on my radar for a while....I just don't like the fact that the crossover is active.  It mentions it can handle 192khz input but does it process at that sample rate? 

I mean, I get all the "its transparent!" comments that I've seen re: the M2s.  But, I've been loving upsampling to DSD512.  And that kind of goes out the window with something that converts A->D and / or has a max input of 192khz.

Also, the AES input for the digital...ugh.

But, I do have the LSR308s and like them quite a bit.  But they are an all analog design.  The waveguide is exceptional and the bass is ok.  I think the 708s would definitely take it to the next level...but at the "expense" of integrated A->D / max digital input of 192khz.

-Jim

[poseidonsvoice]

Hey guys, thanks for all the input.  I had the 708's on my radar for a while....I just don't like the fact that the crossover is active.  It mentions it can handle 192khz input but does it process at that sample rate? 

I mean, I get all the "its transparent!" comments that I've seen re: the M2s.  But, I've been loving upsampling to DSD512.  And that kind of goes out the window with something that converts A->D and / or has a max input of 192khz.

Also, the AES input for the digital...ugh.

But, I do have the LSR308s and like them quite a bit.  But they are an all analog design.  The waveguide is exceptional and the bass is ok.  I think the 708s would definitely take it to the next level...but at the "expense" of integrated A->D / max digital input of 192khz.

-Jim

Jim,

The LSR 305 and 308 have an analog input either XLR or 1/4 inch TRS then that signal gets converted to digital and DSP/crossover is done in the digital domain before being converted back into analog again ahead of the transducers (tweeter/woofer) -> http://rdimitrov.twistedsanity.net/blog/show.php?entry=JBL%20LSR305%20Teardown%20and%20Analysis

The 708 and 705 have both analog and digital inputs. The analog input and conversions that occur thereafter are analogous to your LSR 308 (although much more high end). The only difference is that the 7 series ALSO offers a digital input which has a max 192khz ceiling.

If you have a dac with DSD 512 capability you can always use the analog inputs on the 705/708 as you have been with your LSR series.

I suggest an audition. An all “analog” active crossover gets complex really quick and it is time we accept that digital has come a long, long way.

Best,
Anand.

[JDUBS]

Jim,

The LSR 305 and 308 have an analog input either XLR or 1/4 inch TRS then that signal gets converted to digital and DSP/crossover is done in the digital domain before being converted back into analog again ahead of the transducers (tweeter/woofer) -> http://rdimitrov.twistedsanity.net/blog/show.php?entry=JBL%20LSR305%20Teardown%20and%20Analysis

The 708 and 705 have both analog and digital inputs. The analog input and conversions that occur thereafter are analogous to your LSR 308 (although much more high end). The only difference is that the 7 series ALSO offers a digital input which has a max 192khz ceiling.

If you have a dac with DSD 512 capability you can always use the analog inputs on the 705/708 as you have been with your LSR series.

I suggest an audition. An all “analog” active crossover gets complex really quick and it is time we accept that digital has come a long, long way.

Best,
Anand.

Oh, lol!  Totally didn't know that about the 308s.  They're in my 2nd (computer only system) and just get used on youtube videos and the like.  Never used for critical listening.

My main system is active with no dsp in it...and the advantages of upsampling to DSD are quite obvious (my wife, who rarely listens even commented....unprompted at how good Spotify was sounding when it was being upsampled to 512).


But, yes, definitely need to find a pair to audition....easier said than done, though.

-Jim

[JohnR]

The LSR 305 and 308 have an analog input either XLR or 1/4 inch TRS then that signal gets converted to digital and DSP/crossover is done in the digital domain before being converted back into analog again ahead of the transducers (tweeter/woofer) -> http://rdimitrov.twistedsanity.net/blog/show.php?entry=JBL%20LSR305%20Teardown%20and%20Analysis

Interesting link. The chip appear to do the conversion directly from PCM to PWM though (i.e. no DAC)? http://www.st.com/en/audio-ics/sta350bw.html

[JohnR]

My main system is active with no dsp in it...and the advantages of upsampling to DSD are quite obvious

Um, upsampling is DSP ...

Anyway, FYI the KH120s that were mentioned earlier have an analog active crossover.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Anad makes great points as always, but....

The whole notion of a “narrower baffle makes for a better imaging speaker” stems from a forum here on AC that I try to avoid

It has been MY experience over the decades that narrower baffles will help produce a more 3D image, while wider baffles brings forward the soundstage, makes individual images flatter and bigger, while the space between instruments has more grunge, and is less realistic. I did not read this on AudioCircle but heard this on many speakers. This effect would be less noticeable on the many systems I see pictures of since their soundstage is so compromised by virtue of the system setup.

However, enter the wave guide. This did shock me with the SP Tech minis as imaging was way better than I would have thought. The Gedlee Nathan's I owned for a couple weeks had a very large wave guide and imaged very well with respect to the sound coming from the wave guide. It was the woofer that let the imaging suffer due to it's size.

The GR Research Super Vs with it's large mid woofer does way better than the Nathans, probably due to it being open baffle. It images very well.

So while there are exceptions to the rule, in my books, I can judge a book, or speaker, by it's baffle.   

Rocket Ronny

[BigguyinATL]

Another consideration for a powered monitor should be the M&K MPS 2510P from MKsound.  These guy have always sounded great!

http://www.mksound.com/active-monitors/mps-2510p

[poseidonsvoice]

Anad makes great points as always, but....

It has been MY experience over the decades that narrower baffles will help produce a more 3D image, while wider baffles brings forward the soundstage, makes individual images flatter and bigger, while the space between instruments has more grunge, and is less realistic. I did not read this on AudioCircle but heard this on many speakers. This effect would be less noticeable on the many systems I see pictures of since their soundstage is so compromised by virtue of the system setup.

However, enter the wave guide. This did shock me with the SP Tech minis as imaging was way better than I would have thought. The Gedlee Nathan's I owned for a couple weeks had a very large wave guide and imaged very well with respect to the sound coming from the wave guide. It was the woofer that let the imaging suffer due to it's size.

The GR Research Super Vs with it's large mid woofer does way better than the Nathans, probably due to it being open baffle. It images very well.

So while there are exceptions to the rule, in my books, I can judge a book, or speaker, by it's baffle.  http://www.audiocircle.com/Smileys/audiocircle/sm_lyellow.gif

Rocket Ronny

No problem, we'll agree to disagree then! And the Nathan's are a far cry from Geddes' standard nowadays anyway. You are more than welcome to listen to the NA12's currently at my house or the JBL 708/M2's (don't know which yet for my basement!). I recently listened to the NX Oticas, and in my honest opinion, what they lack is in image specificity not in soundstaging. The NA12's have both but are limited to the seated listeners. You can walk around with the NX Oticas (due to the wider vertical dispersion) but since I don't get up and walk around during my listening sessions (or for theater), I don't care for that feature. The NX Oticas are more of a soft focus, whereas the Geddes NA12 is a fine, well delineated focus. Different systems and rooms were used in this comparison so it should be taken with a big bucket of rock salt 

I've never listened to the Super V's but there are some fine gentlemen in NC who own a pair so perhaps I should ping them for a listen...

Best,
Anand.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Did you end up getting the M2s?    It would not surprise me as you are a hardcore addict. If you have all three of the speakers you mentioned can you comment a bit more on them, comparison wise?

Rocket Ronny

[LesterSleepsIn]

I heard these Triangle Elaras today in a local Stereo shop, very impressive. They have great detail and impressive bass that holds together at loud volumes. And they will play loud and will fill the room. I can only compare them to my Audio Engine A5s and the Peachtree M24s but the Triangles are better but ... more expensive, $800. Also, like the M24s, they are turntanle ready.

http://www.triangle-fr.com/en/elara/ln01

[JDUBS]

Um, upsampling is DSP ...

Anyway, FYI the KH120s that were mentioned earlier have an analog active crossover.

I mean, obviously, but that's not what's relevant in this context.  I wasn't speaking about upsampling ahead of hitting the speakers.

-Jim

[Doublej]

I heard these Triangle Elaras today in a local Stereo shop, very impressive. They have great detail and impressive bass that holds together at loud volumes. And they will play loud and will fill the room. I can only compare them to my Audio Engine A5s and the Peachtree M24s but the Triangles are better but ... more expensive, $800. Also, like the M24s, they are turntanle ready.

http://www.triangle-fr.com/en/elara/ln01

I could not find anything that would indicate these are powered. Did I miss something?

[opnly bafld]

http://www.triangle-fr.com/en/activeseries/ln01a

[Jonathon Janusz]

You are more than welcome to listen to the NA12's currently at my house or the JBL 708/M2's (don't know which yet for my basement!).

I will be keeping an eye out for your opinions after you get the soon-to-be basement system up and running, although I know it will likely take some time to get the "new" system as dialed in as the current one.   

I recently listened to the NX Oticas, and in my honest opinion, what they lack is in image specificity not in soundstaging. The NA12's have both but are limited to the seated listeners. You can walk around with the NX Oticas (due to the wider vertical dispersion) but since I don't get up and walk around during my listening sessions (or for theater), I don't care for that feature. The NX Oticas are more of a soft focus, whereas the Geddes NA12 is a fine, well delineated focus. Different systems and rooms were used in this comparison so it should be taken with a big bucket of rock salt 

If the NX Oticas behave similarly to Danny's other OB designs, I would be confident in saying that they CAN have an exceptional image specificity, but that particular aspect of the presentation is VERY dependent on exactly how the room is treated.  As Danny demonstrated for me years ago at a slow-ish LSAF, even with a room full of treatments, moving a diffusor just a centimeter (or less) can swing this attribute significantly one way or the other, depending on what the end user's preference is for how they want the sound in the room to work.  Sometimes I think that maybe one of the secrets to OB speakers isn't that they "take the room out of the equation" as much as they just change how one has to integrate the room into the equation.

I've never listened to the Super V's but there are some fine gentlemen in NC who own a pair so perhaps I should ping them for a listen...

I haven't had a chance to hear them yet myself, but if someone near you has a pair of the coaxial-based Spatial open baffle speakers, they might be a similar enough speaker to get a feel for a "point source" two-way open baffle design?

[poseidonsvoice]

Did you end up getting the M2s?    It would not surprise me as you are a hardcore addict. If you have all three of the speakers you mentioned can you comment a bit more on them, comparison wise?

Rocket Ronny

Nope, but I did listen to the M2’s. They are yes, rather remarkable and remind me most of my Geddes NA12 (which are unavailable and I am the sole and only owner). Given that the 708 is closest in line to the M2 and that the prodigious bass response is not required for my basement (along with the expense), it makes sense to me to go for the 708’s and add multiple subs if necessary. The DSP tweakability of the 708’s is really tricked out so one can play until the cows come home.

First things first. We need to finish building our basement!

Best,
Anand.

[tdogzthmn]

I too was curious about trying some powered monitors in my primary listening system and acquired a pair of Mackie HR824 mk2's for a good price.  I was pleasantly surprised by how full and musical they sound.  They have been in constant use for less than a week but I've been continually delighted by how they sound, so much so that its hard to stop listening some times.  My next move was to buy a minidsp unit which will apply room correction and impulse response correction to bring even more clarity and detail out of the music.  I don't have much experience with pro audio gear but the Mackies seemed to have a lot of desirable features like a servo controlled woofer, passive radiator, solid aluminum front baffle and a mix of balanced and unbalanced connections.  Definitely one of my better hifi purchases and they are likely to remain my primary listening speakers for the foreseeable future.

 

[zoom25]

I too was curious about trying some powered monitors in my primary listening system and acquired a pair of Mackie HR824 mk2's for a good price.  I was pleasantly surprised by how full and musical they sound.  They have been in constant use for less than a week but I've been continually delighted by how they sound, so much so that its hard to stop listening some times.  My next move was to buy a minidsp unit which will apply room correction and impulse response correction to bring even more clarity and detail out of the music.  I don't have much experience with pro audio gear but the Mackies seemed to have a lot of desirable features like a servo controlled woofer, passive radiator, solid aluminum front baffle and a mix of balanced and unbalanced connections.  Definitely one of my better hifi purchases and they are likely to remain my primary listening speakers for the foreseeable future.

You're going to love the HR 824. I have the Mk1's and they can go loud with ease. I use them for mostly TV and movies. Never fatigued by them.