AudioCircle
Industry Circles => GR Research => Topic started by: Captainhemo on 22 Jul 2014, 05:26 am
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Not sure how interesting this will be but figured I'd post it anyhow....
I'm starting with one dual 12" OB H-Frame, can't afford to do them both right now . This will replace my current sub, a CSS Quartet 10 ( 10" SDX 10 driver and 2 10" PR;'s). Eventually I'll build the 2nd H-Frame and have them config'd in stereo.
So, I started with 4 panels, 27" x 15" x 3/4"
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102623)
I laminated these into 2 panels
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102624)
Next the panels were trimmed to size ( 26 3/4" x 13 3/4" and 3/4" x 1/2" dados were cut for the baffle and braces
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102625)
I cut the baffle 26 3/4" x 14" (an extra inch wider for the dados), routed the 11" holes for the woofers and put a small roundover on the rear side of each cutout. Braces were cut 14" x 6 1/2". Also laminated a base and a top plate that I left long so I could trim it off after I glued it in place
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102626)
Next I dry fit it all together to make sure there were no issues
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102627)
After that it was time for some glue
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102628)
I had to use screws instead of clamps to glue the top plate on, I don't have long enough clamps :(
Plan was to let the glue set up and then get the flush trim bit out and zip off the excess.... problem..... my flush trim bit only has a 1" cutting blade :duh: Had a 2" one sent out this afternoon. So instead, I did some sanding and put a 3/8" round over on all the inner edges of the cabinet. I'll add 3/4" roundovers to all lthe outer edges once I get the new flush trim bit and can cut off the excess from the top plate. Note, I'm just dong the round overs on the cabinet for appearence.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102629)
-jay
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Hi Jay.
Nice project.
Nice step by step slideshow.
Anxiously awaiting the next pictures of your project.
Guy 13
Hopefully in the following threads
you will mention the following:
What finish the wood?
Spikes or rubber feet?
What make + model of plate amplifier.
What make + model of drivers?
Will the drivers be firing in opposite directions.
Will it have fron and/or back grills.
So many questions, now I can't wait for answers.
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I agree with Guy, Jay. [Must be cuz we both have Asian wives. :lol:] That's a nice looking project you've got going.
I'm still fairly new to OB speakers, so could you educate me a bit? Where will the amplifier be placed?
Big question: What are the advantages of an OB subwoofer over a sealed subwoofer (assuming the same drivers and amps are used)?
Michael
If I should ask these questions in another thread, by all means someone redirect me. :oops:
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:lol: you guys are funny. I saw Guy's post over in another circle regarding your wive's the other day too.
No worries about asking here Micheal,, heopefully a few others will chime in to
As I understand it, with the OB subs, you'lll get much more detailed, accureate "clean" bass. A lot less boom which is something I am really hoping for. With the servo controlled drivers, you aren't supposed tolose the "impact" either , just some SPL compared to the sealed versions. I'm sure someone else will provide you with more details but that's a start
Supposed to be amazing for audio which I have really migrated towards since building my OB7's. I just very rarilly watch movies any mre , pretty much all 2 (2.1) ch audio so the OB subs seemed the logical choice
Don't get me wrong , it is not that the OB7's don't sound good for HT use, I just have lost all interest in it. I do still wastch the occasional movie with my neice but other tan that, nada.
Sure am looking forward to hearing what the OB subs will do
-jay
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I agree with Guy, Jay. [Must be cuz we both have Asian wives. :lol:] That's a nice looking project you've got going.
I'm still fairly new to OB speakers, so could you educate me a bit? Where will the amplifier be placed?
Big question: What are the advantages of an OB subwoofer over a sealed subwoofer (assuming the same drivers and amps are used)?
Michael
If I should ask these questions in another thread, by all means someone redirect me. :oops:
Hi Jay and Michael.
Yes, that's must be it, we both have Asian women. :lol:
I am sure some AC members will/can tell you what are the advantages
of Open Baffle versus Sealed or vented.
If I've choose Open Baffle it's not because the sealed (Servo or not)
is inferior in sound.
It's because they are different and I like something different,
plus to me, the OB sound better, at least with what I have now.
However, OB need more room, therefore later,
when I am confine into a smaller apartment,
I might (If I have no choice) go with (Several) small sealed subwoofer.
I don't want to answer for Jay, but I think the plate amplifier will be
in a separate box.
Now, I am out, I will let Jay do the writing and posting
with hopefully, lots of nice pictures.
Guy 13
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What made you do a h- frame over a w- frame? Thanks for the picts it's looking good.Keep us posted.Paul
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Where will the amplifier be placed?
The amps for OB subs are typically in a separate box (or no box at all). One of the problems with most sealed subs is that the amp is attached directly to the box, making it subject to lots of vibration. Not a good thing.
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The amps for OB subs are typically in a separate box (or no box at all). One of the problems with most sealed subs is that the amp is attached directly to the box, making it subject to lots of vibration. Not a good thing.
Hi Early B.
I thought that solid state amplifier were not subject to vibration.
(Tubes amplifier, yes...)
Does that means it would be better if my subwoofer ss amplifier were in a seperate box away from all the powerful boom boom of my subwoofer?
It's the first time I hear something like that.
Of course even after 66 years,
I have not heard everything about everything.
Guy 13
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Hi Early B.
I thought that solid state amplifier were not subject to vibration.
There is an huge audiophile accessory business based on vibration reduction. Many of us who have experimented with vibration isolation devices have noticed sonic improvements, even with solid state amps. With tube amps, it's obvious to want to control vibration, but the same is true for SS amps. Imagine a SS amp's internal parts vibrating incessantly. What impact would that have on the sound (recall that sound is vibration that we hear)? This vibration issue is magnified exponentially with an amp attached to a subwoofer cabinet.
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There is an huge audiophile accessory business based on vibration reduction. Many of us who have experimented with vibration isolation devices have noticed sonic improvements, even with solid state amps. With tube amps, it's obvious to want to control vibration, but the same is true for SS amps. Imagine a SS amp's internal parts vibrating incessantly. What impact would that have on the sound (recall that sound is vibration that we hear)? This vibration issue is magnified exponentially with an amp attached to a subwoofer cabinet.
Hi Early B.
If it's not good or even so bad,
why 99% of the speaker manufacturers attached their ss amp to the enclosures?
I wonder if I detach my ss plate amplifier from my H type subwoofer enclosure
by how much the sound will improve ???
Guy 13
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Hi Jay.
Sorry to hijack your thread like that,
but while we wait for your next set of pictures,
we have nothing else better to do than... Well, what we are doing now.
If you want, you can hate me...
Guy 13
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why 99% of the speaker manufacturers attached their ss amp to the enclosures?
That's easy -- the target market for subwoofers is comprised of 99% non-audiophiles. Only people like us would consider separating the plate amp from the cabinet. There are other reasons to do so, but we have derailed this thread long enough.
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Looks great so far! :thumb:
Ever since Danny introduced the V-1 I have been wanting a pair of these OB subs. It's amazing to me how even a fairly simple cabinet design can still be so much work. Sadly, I am not cut out to be a wood worker.
I would be real interested in the weight of the finished cabinet with and without subs.
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What made you do a h- frame over a w- frame? Thanks for the picts it's looking good.Keep us posted.Paul
Figured I'd make them "match" my OB7's, an H Frame seemed a better fit . Usually when I see Danny use them paired with a speaker, they are in stand alone H Frames or built into the speakers cabnets in an H Frame.
Ever since Danny introduced the V-1 I have been wanting a pair of these OB subs. It's amazing to me how even a fairly simple cabinet design can still be so much work. Sadly, I am not cut out to be a wood worker.
I would be real interested in the weight of the finished cabinet with and without subs.
I think jparkhur is working on a simple flat pack for the H frames, might want to contact him and see where they stand.
Even without the base attached yet, it is heavy. With the panels doubled up , the weight piles on fast. Approx 3/4 sheet of MDF in this cabinet. According to the UPS shipment details, the packae weights 62 lbs so add a good chunk of that too .
Hi Jay.
Sorry to hijack your thread like that,
Guy 13
No worries, post away :lol:
As for the amp, I just built an open box to houe it in. I am going to put some small rubber feet on it and try it both ways... sitting ontop of the enclosure as well as on the ground to see if I notice any difference. I kind of doubt it, but you never know
-jay
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Jay, Really nice look on these. Can't wait to here what they do for your system, I'm curious if they smooth out your room a bit and how much better the bass is.
Keep the pictures coming, I really enjoy them :thumb:
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Jay, Really nice look on these. Can't wait to here what they do for your system, I'm curious if they smooth out your room a bit and how much better the bass is.
Keep the pictures coming, I really enjoy them :thumb:
Hey Greg, any word on your project ? Been anxiously awaiting to see how they are going to look :)
-jay
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This is what I want to replace my sunfire jr with.
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Really excellent H-Frames, Cap. They look to have been inspired by the black pair Peter J made and posted pics of here awhile back (the top and bottom of the frame extending past the vertical side panels). I'm using W-Frames at the moment, but when I get around to making H's, I'm making mine in a similar design (but without the extended top and bottom), also doubling up on the MDF for the panels, and the baffle as well, just to make sure. Doubling the horizontal brace seems unnecessary, I think. What do you say Danny?
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No need to double up the horizontal brace.
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Really excellent H-Frames, Cap. They look to have been inspired by the black pair Peter J made and posted pics of here awhile back (the top and bottom of the frame extending past the vertical side panels). I'm using W-Frames at the moment, but when I get around to making H's, I'm making mine in a similar design (but without the extended top and bottom), also doubling up on the MDF for the panels, and the baffle as well, just to make sure. Doubling the horizontal brace seems unnecessary, I think. What do you say Danny?
Once the new flush trim bit arives (need a longer one), that top panel will be trimmed down to the overall width .I did see the pics you mention, I think they were actually made by Ruben (post #59 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=125667.40 ) and really liked them, thought about going the same way but I want these towers to have a similar shape to the OB7's (at least from the front) so there will only be the wider base. I did not double up the baffle or the braces.... thought about doing the baffle but figured with the dados and the little area of baffle left exposed, there would be little room for any movement /resonance once the drivers are installed. It's very solid as it it is
Not much I can do until that bit arrives .... this afternoon I did finsih up the open box for the amp Gone back to the Duplicolor paint for the finish but going a little draker than the OB7's , figured the darker color would be more versitile if I ever decide to change spekaers in the future . Color is called Metallic Graphite.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=102743)
-jay .
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Hey Greg, any word on your project ? Been anxiously awaiting to see how they are going to look :)
-jay
Derailing your own thread huh :lol:
All parts are apparently cut out and paint should be happening now? I can't wait either, I'm really looking forward to getting them home so I can put them together.
I will keep you posted, thanks for asking.
Greg
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You're right Captain, they were Rubens. Damn memory! You're probably right about the baffle as well. With so little baffle area left once the woofers are mounted, not much left to resonate. Once again, I ask for Danny's input.
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You're right Captain, they were Rubens. Damn memory! You're probably right about the baffle as well. With so little baffle area left once the woofers are mounted, not much left to resonate. Once again, I ask for Danny's input.
I thought I answered your question in post number 18. Did I miss a question?
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You answered the question of not needing to double the horizontal brace. This one concerns whether or not the baffle would benefit from being doubled. Thanks Danny.
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You answered the question of not needing to double the horizontal brace. This one concerns whether or not the baffle would benefit from being doubled. Thanks Danny.
You could if you wanted to, but I don't see a benefit. There isn't much there but a frame when you cut the mounting hole out of it.
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With an H frame like the Super-V, the frame is just big enough for the woofer (13" square) and then there is a four sided box mounted to it. So it is very solid.
(http://gr-research.com/mis/superv1.jpg)
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Good enough for me. Plus, Jon's new H-Frame flat pack is made with a 3/4" baffle. I know you prefer MDF to Baltic Birch in general Danny. Any reason to go with BB in an H-Frame?.
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Good enough for me. Plus, Jon's new H-Frame flat pack is made with a 3/4" baffle. I know you prefer MDF to Baltic Birch in general Danny. Any reason to go with BB in an H-Frame?.
The BB will be fine for the H frame application. I like them about the same in this application. The side panels are not excited as to resonate. They are more prone to flexing under the pressure they see. So the BB works fine.
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Ok, here's some more progress fianlly... took a week and a half to get the router bit I needed.
Note, pay attention to what you are ordering... the bit arrived and it was only 1/4" shank with a 2" cutting blade !! I can't believe they even make such a thing but serves me right for not paying attention . Anyway, needless to say, I had to trim the top panel very slowly and couldn't put too much presuare on that bit, was really worried I was going to bend/sanp the bit.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103137)
But I did get it done with some patience
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103138)
Next I removed the temporarily installed base after marking it with a couple reference points for lining it back up once I was ready to permanently attach it.. I then rounded ove the corners with a 3/4" round over bit and also did the upper edge
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103139)
Next I took the 3/4" round over bit to the outer edges and also to tpe top panel of the cabinet
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103140)
After giving it all a thorough sanding I reaattached the base this time using a nice layer of glue. I had thought about making the base removable but really didn't see a need for it... permanent it is.
There is one little knick in the upper right corner (verwed from front) that I must have done with the router, will have to touch it up tomorrow.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103141)
Slipped out to HD this eve and picked up a piece of 1/2 MDF so I'll whip up a grill frame tomorrow afternoon and maybe get the magnets set in place. Not sure I'll even use a grill but better to have it and not use it rather than want it and not have it :lol:
-jay
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Nice Job :thumb: Someday I hope to make a pair myself.
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Nice Job :thumb: Someday I hope to make a pair myself.
Thanks man. I'd have liked to have done a pair at the same time but couldn't swing the funds so doing 1 H Frame at a time. Hopefully it woun't be tooo long before I can do the 2nd .
Ok, grill frame....
1st I cut the piece of 1/2" MDF to the size I wanted for the grill. Sized it so it would sit 1/2" insded the cabinet outer edges on the sides and top, it will site down on the base at the bottom. Once I had that cut, I marked out the 6 locations for the magnets and then used a 1/8" drill bit to drill right through each spot. With my low vision, I find doing it this way is much easier than rasfering the measurments to the cabinet, plus I can use the through holes later. Once I'm done and the magnets are epoxied in, I can just fill the little holes with either a little glue or wood filler.
Once the holes are all drilled I clamp the grill blank in place on the cabinet, spacing it equally on both sides then use the same 1/8" drill bit to mark the cabinet at each spot.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103196)
After each hole is marked on the cabinet, I remove the grill blank and proceed to drill the holes for the magnets. In this case I had planned on using 1/4 x 1/4 N52 cylinder magnets (thought I had some) but after looking closer at what I had on hand, I found I only had 3/16 x 1/4 N52's which are going to have to do. I'm sure using 12 ( 6 in cabinet, 6 in grill frame) will work fine, these little guy are surprisingly strong.
After drilling the holes in the cabinet, I epoxy the mangents in place. I usually smear a little wood filler over each one just to fill in the "edge" around each magnet. Run a piece of 120 grit over each one using a block after it drives.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103197)
Now it is on to the frame itself. I decided to leave the frame 1" wide on the edges. It's 15" wide so a 13" cut out should work great... I left the bottom frame 1.5" thick for something later. Befroe routing out the holes, Ir ounded each corner and then ran a 3/8" round over around the outside. Then I routed out the large holes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103198)
After this, it's just a matter of getting rid of the little pieces left over in the middle. Time to put those little 1/8" holes I drilled all the way through to use again. I use them to run a #6 x 1" wood screw through and attach a guide for a flush trim bit to cut out the little excess pieces. This works well as long as you aren't distracted and thinking about other things :duh: Note the little blooper in the lower left corner, don't ask what I was dong cuz I can't tell you. At least it is only a grill frame and some MDF saw dust mixed with some glue easily filled it in.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103199)
I wanted to finish this up this eve but I'm going to let that patch cure overnigh before I run a 2/8" rond over around the inner edge of the frame
-jay
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I really like the proportions of your H-Frame. They're about the same as those of the flat pack Jon is now offering, except that yours has a doubled thickness MDF top. I've been envisioning an H-Frame along the same lines, but for anyone thinking of also making their own frame (though Jon's flat pack makes that unnecessary) with this difference: Instead of attaching the grill frame to the front edge of the double-thickness top and side panels, I was going to make the outer 3/4" panel of the top, bottom, and sides extend past the inner 3/4" panels by 1". Then a grill frame could be made slightly smaller than the inner dimensions between the top & bottom and two sides, and inserted into the front cavity, making it (with the thickness of the grill cloth, and Velcro to hold the grill in place) about flush with the outer panels, like speakers from the 60's and into the 70's (picture the AR-3). Just an idea.
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Jay your grill is exactly what I was thinking about. Have you decided on a color or veneer.
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bdp24
Yeah, the dimensions I used are pretty much the same as the Super V H frame....Side panels are 3/4" taller as I didn't stagger the braces , just ran the dado straight across and also the extra 3/4" from the douoble layer top panel
Leaving the ouoter panels a bit wider to create a recess for the grill would work and probably look prety cool :thumb: I'd prefer the magnets over the velcro as they are never seen... just remember to make a little tab or something to remove the grill, those little magnets are strong and with the frame inside a recess, it may prove awkward to remove without something to grasp. You could also do as Jon suggested over in his flatpack thread ... make the cabinet as is and make a full sized grill . Just omit the round over on the outer edges of the H frame and make the grill frame pretty much flush . I did exactly that onthe XSL Encores for my neice and I like how the look.
monte ,
I wanted the grill frames "match" my OB7's. The H frame will be painted in the same Dupli Color Metallic paint I used for the OB7's but the next darker color , which is called Metallic Graphite . Back on page 1, there is a picture of the amp box painted in it. Figured by going darker, the subs would pretty much go with anything if I shold ever decide to change speakers.... not likely for some time though . The 7's are in Metallic Charcoal but you can see the "look" should be similar
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=77757)
-jay
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Looking really good there Jay.
Mike
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Fixed up that little mistake from yesterday and put a 3/8" round over on the inside edge of the grill frame this morning
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103223)
Epoxied in al lthe magnets
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103224)
Gave the whole thing a light sanding and poped it on the H frame. Amazing little magnets, that thing snaps into place. As with any of the magnets I've used, once it's in place, yo can shift it slightly from side to side for fine adjustment if yo are a detail freak
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103225)
Now just need to roll a coat of paint over it and wrap in grill cloth :beer:
-jay
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Now just need to roll a coat of paint over it and wrap in grill cloth
Jay - Am following your build with great interest. If you wouldn't mind, appreciate if you'd post a few pics showing how you wrap and fasten the cloth to the grill frames. My woodworking skills are pretty fair, but my grills are nothing to write home about. The outside looks fine, but when pulled off, the inside looks somewhat amateurish. The corners throw me off, pleats... gathering... folding... have not found a technique that doesn't bunch up the fabric when I turn a corner.
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Jay - Am following your build with great interest. If you wouldn't mind, appreciate if you'd post a few pics showing how you wrap and fasten the cloth to the grill frames. My woodworking skills are pretty fair, but my grills are nothing to write home about. The outside looks fine, but when pulled off, the inside looks somewhat amateurish. The corners throw me off, pleats... gathering... folding... have not found a technique that doesn't bunch up the fabric when I turn a corner.
Afraid I'm in the same boat man. Mine always look good fromthe front, but I always tell people just don't turn them over and look at theback :lol: Honestly, I'm embarrassed by the back of them
Not really sure what the answer is maybe someone who is good at upholstery can give us some pointers .
I know some guys use the spray adhesive instead of staples, was thinking of trying that but I just don't see it being sstrong enough and it doesn't help the issues with the corners. If I can do any better with the back of this, I might actually show the back but no promises !!
-jay
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Afraid I'm in the same boat man. Mine always look good fromthe front, but I always tell people just don't turn them over and look at theback :lol: Honestly, I'm embarrassed by the back of them
Not really sure what the answer is maybe someone who is good at upholstery can give us some pointers .
I know some guys use the spray adhesive instead of staples, was thinking of trying that but I just don't see it being sstrong enough and it doesn't help the issues with the corners. If I can do any better with the back of this, I might actually show the back but no promises !!
-jay
Hi Jay.
I saw my cabinet maker installing the grill cloth on my V1
and on the back he uses some liquid adhesive
and with a cloth iron with just a little heat even out all the wrinkles.
It does a nice job.
Guy 13
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Gave the whole thing a light sanding and poped it on the H frame. Amazing little magnets, that thing snaps into place. As with any of the magnets I've used, once it's in place, yo can shift it slightly from side to side for fine adjustment if yo are a detail freak
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103225)
-jay
Jay,
I was thinking along the lines of Ed's suggestion about insetting the grill but that really looks good.
Mike
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Captain---The reason I was thinking of Velcro is because the magnets are so attracted to each other that getting the grills back off after they are inset into the H-Frame might be a problem. Velcro holds, but without the strong magnetic pull. I would never be using H-Frames without grills, so the look of Velcro wouldn't be an issue. Speaking of grills, I watched a friend of mine while he put new vintage reproduction grill cloth on my '67 Fender speaker cabinet; he stapled the cloth onto the back of one of the short ends of the grill frame and then stretched the cloth as tightly across the length of the grill as possible, stapling the other end of the cloth to the back of the other end. Then he did the same across the width. He told me the longer the length of cloth, the more it stretches (makes sense), so length first is the way to do it. With a pair of scissors he cut into the corner at a 45 degree angle, then cut off the extra material (to get rid of the bulk), and folded and stapled the cloth onto the frame. The stapler he used was pneumatic, with staples having a depth of about 1/2". The cloth now sags just a little in the middle, but it is much thicker and less stretchy than the cloth anyone here would use, and was very difficult to pull even as tightly as it was. I would pull the cloth as tightly as possible without ripping it---the 3/4" MDF grill frame won't bend from the pull of the cloth.
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Jay,
I was thinking along the lines of Ed's suggestion about insetting the grill but that really looks good.
Mike
Thanks Mike hoping there will be enough metallic in this paint to get some of the same contrast that I get with the OB7 grills when the light hits the paint. I actually considered going with the same color on the subs , was a bit torn between the contrast and the versitality of going darker (goes with anything) . The decision was made for me when I found out that this paint is no longer available in Canada but I did mange toi find a few cans of the metallic graphite so boought them. I could have ordered the same charcoal I used previously but Jegs wanted close to $20 / can for the shipping alone !
bdp24,
I hear you on the magnets, wondered if that might be an issue with a recessed grill. I even wonder if the velcro would cause problems...if the grill is actually flush or below the surface of the outer panel, it could prove really hard to remove. Don't really see how you'd grab it
Thanks for the clothng ideas. I've never had any issue withe geting the cloth nice and tight ( thin stuff) just those dam corners are messy . Was thinking of 45'n the excess in the corners already, may have to give it a try. There are some tutorials ouot there too
-jay
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Some of the speakers in the 60's and earlier with inset grills actually had nothing holding them in place except the friction of the frame and cloth against the inside edges of the cabinet. When I got my first pair of real hi-fi speakers (AR 4ax's) I wanted to look at the drivers, and I just (carefully!) put a butter knife into the space between the grill and the cabinet and pried the grill off. No harm done, but I was kind of surprised by how crappy the drivers and baffle looked. No one would want to listen to speakers with the grills removed back then if it meant having to see the hideous looking baffle (glue smears, ugly particle board, not MDF), woofers and (especially) tweeters. The irony is, grill cloth back then was so thick (like burlap!) and acoustically non-transparent that the speakers would have sounded better without the grill cloth between the drivers and our ears. The frequency response was tailored to compensate for the cloth, but still.
For these H-Frames, I won't be removing the grills after they are put in place anyway, so I'm not concerned about the appearance of the Velcro. Grills mounted to the front of the frames, such as yours, are unquestionably much easier to add without having to modify the frames. I just really like the old school look of AR, KLH, Dynaco, Advent, Klipsch (they are STILL made with inset grills), etc., speakers, with the grills flush with the front edges of the cabinet. For those getting Jon's H-Frames, the inner side panels and horizontal brace can be cut back an inch, and grill frames made to fit in the recess, for those who also like the old look. Either way, these are fantastic subs, aren't they?!
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Here's the grill frame with a coat of paint, just some Satin Black Behr Premium Primer/Paint
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103495)
I went to the local store that usually carries the cloth, found out they are moving and have cleared everything out and aren't bringing any more in until after the move. I had to order a yard from Vancouver, hopeuflly it will show up by Fridday
Cabinet all primed up with Bulls Eye 123. primer/sealer , this stuff seems to adhere extemely well to the MDF
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103499)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103497)
I picked up a bag of these M8 x 13mm threaded inserts , going to give them a try instead of the inserts that come with the spikes
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103498)
Gong to get the top coat on in the next day or so.
-jay
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Great job, looks like its going to turn out VERY nice!..... :thumb:
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Great job, looks like its going to turn out VERY nice!..... :thumb:
Thanks Perry :)
After I last "talked" to you, I did a bit more research on the Poly Diffusers and found a thread in the GIK circle where Bryan recommended a diffuser behind each OB speaker. Decided to give this a try and it is working well. Planning to eventually replace with a couple of the PI Audio diffusers but for now these are staying put
Anyway , sprayed the top coat on this afternoon. Here is a shot of the Metallic Graphite trying to show how much it changes in the light, had to sue the flas as it was already sundown when I took these
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103534)
And here are a couple of the cabinet itself
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103535)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103536)
I'm pleased with the resuults, I''ll grab a coule shots tomorrow afternoon when the sun is poking through the back door of the garage.
Now I just need that grill cloth and more importantaly, a delivery from my buddy who has the packages from Danny ,.. right Holmes ? :lol:
-jay
-
Jay, looking good. Those early Christmas presents are fun to open. Keep up the good work .
Paul
-
Damn, those look fine!!! Just curious, how did you apply the sealer? What brand paint did you use for the metallic Graphite?
thanks,
tom
-
Jay, looking good. Those early Christmas presents are fun to open. Keep up the good work .
Paul
Paul,
Yes they are ! Looking forward to it
Tom,
I found a can of the BullsEye 123 primer/sealer in a spray bomb so I used that.. however, the 1 can I picked up was not enough so I went back and decided to get a liter can which was about 3 times the quantity of paint for the same price. I rolled it on and just gave it a light sanding with a block .
The paint is made by Dupli Color
-jay
-
That sub turned out great Jay, nice job. I will likely be spraying my next project with rattle cans, I pickup up some Duplicolor metalcast to practice with, painting has never been my strong suit but I am encouraged by your excellent results.
Best,
Ed
-
Hi Jay.
May I say that the color of your enclosure is not my favorite color.
(I prefer lighter color, but that's your choice and I really respect that.)
That's being said, I love your wood work and the paint job.
I wish my subwoofers would look as nice as yours.
I think with front grill it will makes a better looking enclosure,
that's what mine are missing.
I am riveted to my computer's screen to see and enjoy the end result.
Guy 13
-
That sub turned out great Jay, nice job. I will likely be spraying my next project with rattle cans, I pickup up some Duplicolor metalcast to practice with, painting has never been my strong suit but I am encouraged by your excellent results.
Best,
Ed
Hey Ed, thanks for the comments. if I can give you one tip for painting, it would be prep, do lots of block sanding and get everything as good as you can With every project, I do more prep and end up with better results. Learning my lesson :)
Not sure if anyone else is using it , but I was really impressed with how well that Bulls Eye 123 primer/sealer aheared to the MDf and it covered very well too. I let it dry overnight and then give it a quick sanding with a block and some 240 , then a final pass with 400.
Guy, no worries, everyone has different tastes in color. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I almost went to the same color as the OB7's which is a shade lighter, almost silver in the light. Unfortunately, I can't get that paint in Canada anymore but did manage to find some of the graphite so that really helped make the decision . This stuff will stand out pretty well in the natural light I think
As for the grill, well , here you go
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103584)
I'll post a bit more about the fiasco with the grill cloth tomorrow, need to jump inthe shower and have a Corona after, maybe even a couple, time to relax :beer:
Oh, figured I'd share this too as I know there are a few dog lovers out there.... Roxy likes to hang out inthe garage and watch the projects progress, crazy dog even stays in there when I'm running the table saw or router !!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103585)
-jay
-
Jay, those look great! I like the grills, gives them a nice finished look especially with the softened inside corners.
I think Roxy is just keeping a watchful I on you, you know in case you make mistake and need to be saved :o
-
Hi Jay.
I really like how your grill look like.
I would like to do the same with my enclosures,
but unfortunately, it's too late now.
I have to tell you a little secret,
I've hired your pouch to spy for me on how to do wood work.
He will report to me, when he know how to use the computer.
Next step, the woofers ?
Guy 13
-
Handsome cabinet AND dog! The grill looks as good as the cab, and keeps listeners from thinking about the sub's "guts" too much. Now, after you install the woofers, let us know what you think of the sound, the ultimate point of all the work.
-
Excellent job Jay. Your OB H-frame cabinet looks great! :thumb: I'm anxious to hear your report on how it sounds
once you get the components installed and have a chance to test it.
Ron
-
Thanks for the comments you guys, really looking forward to getting it up and running.
Funny about the dog Greg, she definitely likes to keep an "I" on things and now I know why Guy !! Guess we'll know why a couple boxes of Milk Bones arive from planet Viet nam huh ? :lol:
Cody698, I found this which may interest you,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1H3_uv2uE
I tried to do the same basic thing as the video shows but am still too ashamed to show the rear , not pretty. My biggest mistake was not using quie a wide enough piece of cloth, had I made it an inch or two wider to start with, it would have been much better, I ened up having to really stretch the sides over to just get a staple in . Lesson learned for the next one.
With the much more flexible grill cloth we typically use, you still can end up with a bit of a problem in the corners but I just used a little bit of adhesie on a q tip right at the corner on the rear which helped a lot
-jay
-
Jay, do the speakers and amp come in kit form or do you buy them separately.
-
Jay, do the speakers and amp come in kit form or do you buy them separately.
Seperately, but, just give Danny a call and he will set you up with all the components you need. remember too, if you are only doing dual driver OB (H, W, U frmes), not triples, he has the new 8 ohm drivers coming in shortly
-jay
-
I believe I read that the 8 ohm 12's would be in around the end of Aug.
-
Cody698, I found this which may interest you,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQ1H3_uv2uE
Thanks for posting this. The video is interesting and the miter corners look like a good approach when the sides of the grills meet at a rectangular corner.
Did you use this method with the slightly rounded corners you have on the H-Frame?
-
Thanks for posting this. The video is interesting and the miter corners look like a good approach when the sides of the grills meet at a rectangular corner.
Did you use this method with the slightly rounded corners you have on the H-Frame?
Yes I did, or at least I tried .... . As mentioned, I really didn't cut the original piece wide enough, if it had been a couple inches wider it wold have looked much better as I could have trimmed up the rear so much nicer.
With the rounded corners, you do still get a lttle bunching, but if you really pull it and use just a dab of adhesive on the back right at the corner, it works quite well.
This is embarragsing, but :wtf: I have no clue as to why I struggle so much doing these....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103661)
-jay
-
If somebody asks to see the back of your grill,throw them out. Good job
-
Hi Jay.
If you don't like the way the back of your grills look like,
I can relieve you of the shame you might suffer when your friends
will see the back,
by taking them away from you. :lol:
Nice job, if I was you I would be proud, look nice from the front. :thumb:
I don't even have myself any grills, even after two years of the original built.
Next step, the drivers ?
Guy 13
-
Yes I did, or at least I tried .... . As mentioned, I really didn't cut the original piece wide enough, if it had been a couple inches wider it wold have looked much better as I could have trimmed up the rear so much nicer.
With the rounded corners, you do still get a lttle bunching, but if you really pull it and use just a dab of adhesive on the back right at the corner, it works quite well.
This is embarragsing, but :wtf: I have no clue as to why I struggle so much doing these....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103661)
-jay
Jay,
As long as it works what does it really matter? After all, you don't see the back side of the grill frame.
Mike
-
yup, I hear what you guys are saying and you are right, it looks good from the ront and it will finction as planned. I guess it is more about improving each time I build one of these and while the wrapping did go better, it did not come out as I had hoped, in that way it is disappointing.
When I look back at what I did with the N3 grills, (my fist grills) the improvement is dramatic, I really need to redo those for my folks but again, they also look fine from the front.
Guy, depending on how your cabinets are finished, it may not be overly difficult to do frames for them. If they are veneered, you can always get those push in/on type fastners , if painted you could use a similar technique that I used and clamp the frame in place before drilling small through holes to mark the locations of the magnets. Once the magnets are in place, it would be a matter of touching up the paint and a little cut polishing
-jay
-
yup, I hear what you guys are saying and you are right, it looks good from the ront and it will finction as planned. I guess it is more about improving each time I build one of these and while the wrapping did go better, it did not come out as I had hoped, in that way it is disappointing.
When I look back at what I did with the N3 grills, (my fist grills) the improvement is dramatic, I really need to redo those for my folks but again, they also look fine from the front.
Guy, depending on how your cabinets are finished, it may not be overly difficult to do frames for them. If they are veneered, you can always get those push in/on type fastners , if painted you could use a similar technique that I used and clamp the frame in place before drilling small through holes to mark the locations of the magnets. Once the magnets are in place, it would be a matter of touching up the paint and a little cut polishing
-jay
Hi Jay.
When it comes to woodworking or DIY projects,
I am a BIG ZERO.
I don't have four fingers and one thumb, I have five thumbs per hand.
The Vietnamese cabinet maker uses those little push in the hole devices
and they never hold in place the grills,
what I did to solve that annoying problem is to add lots of Velcro strips around the grills,
it holds everything in place, but it also create a gap,
but looking at the grill from the front, it does not show, same as yours.
So, no problem, I'm happy.
As for the grills on my V2 Ferrari red speakers,
I have the cloth, I have the Velcro, I am only missing the 1/4" MDF or plywood, which is inexpensive
on this planet.
The only other thing missing I the courage or the get and go to start the project.
Like I say before and I am repeating myself (Normal I am an old fart) next step, the woofers.
Guy 13
-
Sorry man, yup, next step is the woofers, just been a slight delay in getthing them ( nothing to do with Danny btw) but soon enough, soon enough :)
-jay
-
Got my parts from my buddy at the coast about a week ago so I've put a bit of time on the subs and am loving them :drums:
First, here a few pics
After installing the drivers, I cut all the no rez, 8 pieces 6.25" x 13" and 8 pieces 6.25" x 11". I then cut a 1.25 strip of the foam (leaving the dampening layer) off each piece to leave clearence front and back.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104492)
Here is the rear after the no rez. The upper side pieces of no rez were just slid into place until the wires were actually sodered. I used the quick clips on the driver to make sure I had all the wiring correct before sodlering.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104493)
Front view after it's all soldered up. We went and forgot the shrinktube :duh:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104494)
Used a handy 4-pole quick connect for the wiing to the amp which I got from Danny with the rest of the parts
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104498)
Grill with the GR logo of course
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104495)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104496)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104497)
The H Frame has blended so seamlessly with my OB7's it's amazing. It actually seems like I have no subs, but all the suden the OB7's reach way down deep. I was telling Ron that the bas from the H Frame is very similar to the mid bass produced by the 4 M130X drivers in each OB7. It is so clean and well defined, the detail is wonderful, brings a whole new "layer" to the music that I didn't even know I was missing. Plus, at moderate and lower listening levels, pretty much all the boom is gone from ny room , it starts to creep back in a bit when I start rolling over the volume dial but I'd imagine that is mostly due to the lack of treatment in my room.
My previous sub was based on the SDX 10 driver which is a push/pull (XBL2 motor) driver and I always thought it sounded pretty good. It actually does sound prety good compared to some other subs I have heard but it's not in the same league by any means as this design.
Truely impressive Danny :thumb:
-jay
Oh, if I am not using the RCA outs, should I have the amp's low pass slope set to EXT/12 or does it matter ? . Funny, with some music I prefer the EXT/12 setting, with other music I prefer tje 80/24
-
Great job Jay. Now get to listening.
-
Oh, if I am not using the RCA outs, should I have the amp's low pass slope set to EXT/12 or does it matter ? . Funny, with some music I prefer the EXT/12 setting, with other music I prefer tje 80/24
The EXT/12 setting means the crossover slope is 12db per octave and controlled by the crossover dial on the amp.
The 80Hz/24 setting adds an additional 12db per octave slope at 80Hz plus whatever you do with the dial.
The 50Hz/24 setting adds an additional 12db per octave slope at 50Hz plus whatever you do with the dial.
There is no right or wrong setting.
-
The sub not only blends sonically with the speakers Jay, but cosmetically too. Very nice! Did you put spikes on the bottom of the H-Frame?
-
Thanks guys,
Danny, I'll continue to play with it and see what works best then, I know it probably shouldn't be but it is a bit confusing when one isn't used to making these adjustments to the slope
bdp24, yes, I did install inserts in the base for the spikes, just haven't threaded the spikes in yet althugh they are sitting right here, Once installed, the base height of the H Frame will be equall to that of the OB7.
-jay
-
Jay,
Looks really good. What is the purpose of the 4-pole quick connect?
Mike
-
Jay,
Looks really good. What is the purpose of the 4-pole quick connect?
Mike
Quick connect/disconnect the amp from the cabinet :lol: Sorry man, couldn't resist !
2 driver coil leads, 2 servo coil leads, just the one connector. The female side of the connector is permanently installed in the side of the amp enclosure , the leads coming from the cabinet are attached to the male side
http://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-nl4mp-speakon-connector-4-pole-panel-mount--092-052
http://www.parts-express.com/neutrik-nl4fx-speakon-spx-cable-connector-4p--092-190
Works well
-jay
-
Hi Jay.
Really nice work.
Now with those subwoofers you will be able to really enjoy the classic:
Fanfare for a common man !
Guy 13
-
Quick connect/disconnect the amp from the cabinet :lol: Sorry man, couldn't resist !
Ha Ha, you funny man :icon_lol:
Didn't realize you needed 4 wires for the servo units. Did you hard wire the leads to the cabinet so you only have one connection or did you put a female connector on the cabinet as well then make the connecting wires an interconnect with male connectors on both ends? Or would that degrade the signal?
Mike
-
Your entire speaker system looks great Jay! You did an excellent job building all of them. :thumb: Only wish that I lived close enough so that I could see and hear them in person. Thanks for posting pictures during the build for everyone to see.
-
Ha Ha, you funny man :icon_lol:
Didn't realize you needed 4 wires for the servo units. Did you hard wire the leads to the cabinet so you only have one connection or did you put a female connector on the cabinet as well then make the connecting wires an interconnect with male connectors on both ends? Or would that degrade the signal?
Mike
Not sure how much the extra connector woould degrade the signal, but no, I didn't put a female connector in both the cabinet and the amp enclosure. The wires are just hard wired into the cabinet with the male connector that plugs into the amp enclosure.. For movng, the wires and connector actually will coil up and sit inside the lower rear "box" ... not that I am planning on movng theiis much, it is friggin' heavy.
Ron, thanks for the comments man, I too really wish we were closer so we could hang out, would be cool :beer:
-jay
-
Not sure how much the extra connector woould degrade the signal, but no, I didn't put a female connector in both the cabinet and the amp enclosure. The wires are just hard wired into the cabinet with the male connector that plugs into the amp enclosure.. For movng, the wires and connector actually will coil up and sit inside the lower rear "box" ... not that I am planning on movng theiis much, it is friggin' heavy.
Ron, thanks for the comments man, I too really wish we were closer so we could hang out, would be cool :beer:
-jay
Hi Jay.
I have hard wired my V1 top and bottom because the Rythmik plate amplifier is attached to the enclosure,
therefore, no need to use those nice looking connectors.
Danny supply them to me with the purchase of the V1 but never used them.
I know the audio purists will be horrified when I tell them that my V1 are on wheels,
but I will not break my back moving those super heavy monsters
and since the little Vietnamese are no help for me,
because they cannot lift anything heavier than a bowl of rice, I cannot rely on them for help
and I have to do it myself.
Guy 13
-
Jay,
beautiful looking system..................Any chance we can get a listen on you tube like Ron did, love to hear them sing..
-
Nice Work Jay,
I have had the pieces cut for a pair of OB subs for a couple of years now. I think you just inspired me to build them up and order the amps and woofers.
I have boxes already built and the aluminum woofers on hand for a pair of Rythmik sealed servo subs too. But after having the Super V's in my room for a year, the OB bass still has my heart.
I'm also a little jealous of your diffusors. :green: Not sure what they are made of but I like the shape!
-
Jay,
beautiful looking system..................Any chance we can get a listen on you tube like Ron did, love to hear them sing..
Strange as it may seem these days, I actually don't have a camera that records decent sound.... I've been trying to get a decent sounding video using all the different devices we have here for a while now but not having much luck. My neice actually just got one of those mini, and I mean mini, video cameas but the sound is awful. Ron told me he used an HD camcorder , I'll have to try and borrow one.
nickd,
I'm already hooked on the OB subs too, I'm so happy with the results :)
The diffusers were an experiment..... hoping to replace them one of these days with some of Dave's (PI Audio) diffusers.
The poly's were easy to make (after exploding the first attempt made with 3/16 ply) I ended up making the fronts out of fiberboard ( I believ you guys down in the US call it masonite?) with a 2/4" plywood back. They are bent in 1/3 of a circle, have a 7" segment height, and the interiors are stuffed with rockwool.
Used a circle calculator to determine all the measurements
http://www.1728.org/circsect.htm
Using a couple of rachet style tie downs and a few well placed blocks, the panels weren't difficult to bend and then fasten to the bevel cut plywood just using screws
Guy,
I will hae to have a listen to that !!
-jay
-
... not that I am planning on movng theiis much, it is friggin' heavy.
I'm really curious about what the final weight is for it. My single sealed servo sub came out to be around 54 pounds if I remember correctly.
Your's looks heavier. It looks killer too! :thumb:
Now I really want one! :drool: :bounce: :notworthy:
-
Hey corndog71, thanks man :)
The boxes of parts Danny sent were listed at 65 lbs according to UPS,, not sure what all lthe packing itself would have weighed but I wouldn't think ovelry much. I used about 3/4 sheet of 3/4" MDF
I've never heard one of the sealed servo subs so unfortunately, I can't make any ccomparsions for you
-jay
-
Hi Jay.
My V1 are about 90+ pounds each,
that because all the walls are double thickness and the top part and bottom part are separated
and the Rythmik plate amplifier is built in.
That's the reason why they are still on rollers, I protect my spine.
Guy 13
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=104602)
-
Hi Jay.
My V1 are about 90+ pounds each,
that because all the walls are double thickness and the top part and bottom part are separated
and the Rythmik plate amplifier is built in.
That's the reason why they are still on rollers, I protect my spine.
Guy 13
You must have ued that lightweight MDF :lol:
-jay
-
Here are a couple videos
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=128434.new#new
-jay
-
Hi Jay.
Just want to say thanks for the nice thread and pics.
I have my own set of GR woofers being delivered across the Atlantic, can't wait to have them finished.
I am in the process of making the frames, and have been using your build as inspiration, as I quite liked the slots in the sides for the baffle.
My own two frames have been glued, and will now need some sanding and filling, before I start priming them.
Cheers
Mikkel
-
hey Priest
Glad you are finding the thread helpful :)
Using the dado's in the side panels makes assembly a lot easier, not to mention probably adds some streangth. I even thought about adding an extra 1/2" to the top and bottom of the baffle and cutting a dado in the top and bottom panels as well but in the end , didn't go that far.
When you're all done, post some pics for us You are going to love these, still find it amazing !!
BTW, I've got the 2nd frame done and recently placed the order for the parts so soon both will be up and running :hyper:
-jay
-
Hey folks
Here is a brief update. I finally placed the parts order with Danny for my 2nd H-frame. Received them all last week and this past weekend I got it all assmebled, so..... it is up and running 8)
Right away, there were a couple things very apparent 1. significantly more "wieght" behind the bass , 2. An increase in both the depth and width of my sound stage, this I was not expecting at all. I shot Danny a mail about this and he said he has had similar experiences, he suggested playing around with the dampening settings as they can have an effect on the size of he stage (I'm trying the low setting out now Danny).
I know bass is supposed to be omni directional but adding the 2nd H-frame definitly seems to be creating more movement in the reproduction, you really notice a drummer going from one side to the other now. This was present before but not to the same deree.
I listened quite late on Saturday night and didn't seem to notice much difference comapred to the single H-frame at low volumes but, listening late again last night ( the subs now has some time on it) I'd have to say there is even more behind the bass at low levels. Guess the bass just seems more dynamic with more ooomph
As I mentioned to Danny, I'm finding the pair very impressive !!
Here's a couple of piccs, one without grills, one without
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110117)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=110118)
-jay
-
Jay, I remember when you started on this journey.... at least here at the GR Research Circle. Man have you come a long way, look at that nice set up, the speakers and subs look great together and I bet it sounds wonderful now. :thumb:
-
Awesome report! This is what I'm looking forward to! :bounce: :rock:
Just have to wait to see what my bonus will be before I pull the trigger on the drivers, No Rez, and an amp.
They look great too. :thumb:
-
I really like the grilles on the subs. I'm sure they sound great!
-
Jay,
That's one heck of a setup :thumb:. I'm jealous (but I'll get there eventually :eyebrows:).
Mike
-
Jay,
nice looking and sounding (I'm sure) set up.
Guy 13
-
Thanks fellas, I appreciate all the comments.
Corndog, you're going to love your subs, they are wonderful, and with the 8 ohm woofers, you'll be able to get a bit more output.
Greg, I was sitting here listening to some tunes tunes on Sunday night and was remembering the exact same thing. Back when I was trying to decide between the AV and N3 series. I had built my first sub that summer and figured I could do a speaker upgrade , I had a set of Fluance HT speakers. I did a google search and found Danny (GR Research) and from there found AC .
Been lots of fun not only learning, building and listening, but also getting to know many of you guys :beer:
To the next step !!
-
To the next step !!
Which is? Enquiring minds want to know ...
-
Which is? Enquiring minds want to know ...
Sit back, pop a cold one,, maybe two, and enjoy the music !
After that, who knows :scratch:
-jay
-
I just noticed the amp stands. Great idea! Gives me some ideas. :idea:
-
I just noticed the amp stands. Great idea! Gives me some ideas. :idea:
Yeah they were just quickly thrown toether with some scraps of 1/2" MDF and leftover 2x2's from a dog house project. A few quick cuts, some router work, and some black paint . Simple but they work just fine, and my Minibuss found a home on the bottom shelf of one
-jay
-
Nice work, Jay!
I am really looking forward to get my own pair up and running.
Painting starts in the weekend (mother-in-law is visiting, so I have to have something to do :lol: ).
The amps are almost ready, one is finished, the box is ready for the other one.
Cheers!
The Priest
-
I just noticed the amp stands. Great idea! Gives me some ideas. :idea:
You don't want to get the Rythmik plate amps too far from the Servo drivers. In fact, the closer the better.
-
What is 'too far'?
I have kept as much as possible of the cabling from the plate amp itself, so how much speaker cable would be too long? 1 meter? 2?
Cheers,
ThePriest
-
What is 'too far'?
I have kept as much as possible of the cabling from the plate amp itself, so how much speaker cable would be too long? 1 meter? 2?
Cheers,
ThePriest
Good question. Danny has commented on the question before, maybe he will now.
-
Wow Jay!
Are you trying to catch up with Mike? :green: Nice set-up :thumb: It looks like it's a fairly small room for all those speakers, must sound awesome.. What are the big black boxes on the wall, is that room treatments? Also, is that a Crown power amp sitting on the floor?
-
What is 'too far'?
I have kept as much as possible of the cabling from the plate amp itself, so how much speaker cable would be too long? 1 meter? 2?
Cheers,
ThePriest
Shorter is better. I use a SpeakOn connector at the end of the factory wiring coming off of the amp. Then plug that into the female SpeakOn that gets mounted to the back of the H frame.
-
I thought I read in one of the threads that a few feet was okay for leads to the H-frame. Mine are 4' using the 16 ga solid copper Danny sells. I use the same connectors Danny mentions but I have the cables soldered direct tothe H-frame and the male plug at the end. Then I mount the female side in the amp box.
Larry
The room is It is 18' x 12', wish it were a couple feet wider. Those are poly diffusers behind the OB7's which I hope to eventually replace with some "MR T" diffusers from PI Audio. Nope, no Crown amp
-jay
-
A few feet is okay. Shorter is better.
-
I thought I read in one of the threads that a few feet was okay for leads to the H-frame. Mine are 4' using the 16 ga solid copper Danny sells. I use the same connectors Danny mentions but I have the cables soldered direct tothe H-frame and the male plug at the end. Then I mount the female side in the amp box.
Larry
The room is It is 18' x 12', wish it were a couple feet wider. Those are poly diffusers behind the OB7's which I hope to eventually replace with some "MR T" diffusers from PI Audio. Nope, no Crown amp
-jay
12' IS a very common room width. My room is a little wider at 13, but I too would love a foot or two more on each side of the left and right front speakers. My dream room would have a 10' ceiling, with the width and depth in the "Golden Ratio" proportions (see the Cardas site for details) of 1 : 1.6 : 2.6, which would make the width and depth 16' and 26' respectively. Dream is right! The only rooms like that I've been in are the ones Brooks Berdan built for his hi-fi shop (Brooks Berdan Ltd. in Monrovia, CA) and his son Brian Berdan just built for his new shop in Pasadena, CA, Audio Elements. Those dimensions give the most even spread of room modes and lowest resonant signature possible in an enclosed space.
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I am slowly building one of these sub cabinets with an eye to finishing and ordering the electronics in a month or so. For the outer walls I am using 2 pieces of 3/4" MDF to get a 1 1/2" wall. I am using 6 1/2 " as the depth of each woofer well as per the plans but want to make the outer of the 2 MDF pieces 1 " wider to give a 1/2" overhang on each end to frame a grill cloth. Will extending the depth of each woofer well by 1/2" seriously change the sound? I can give up the 1/2" extension - I just think a frame around the grill cloth would look nice. Or should I adjust the size of each wall piece so that the final depth is still only 6 1/2" with a grill attached"?
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I am slowly building one of these sub cabinets with an eye to finishing and ordering the electronics in a month or so. For the outer walls I am using 2 pieces of 3/4" MDF to get a 1 1/2" wall. I am using 6 1/2 " as the depth of each woofer well as per the plans but want to make the outer of the 2 MDF pieces 1 " wider to give a 1/2" overhang on each end to frame a grill cloth. Will extending the depth of each woofer well by 1/2" seriously change the sound? I can give up the 1/2" extension - I just think a frame around the grill cloth would look nice. Or should I adjust the size of each wall piece so that the final depth is still only 6 1/2" with a grill attached"?
I had the exact same idea for my W-frames, and extended the outer 3/4" MDF layer 1" past the inner layer at the front, to allow for an inset 3/4" thick grill frame. It gives the cabinet the look of the 50's-60's (and even 70's) speakers, like Klipsch, AR, Dynaco, Advent, etc. speakers had (Klipsch STILL has that look in it's classic series). That style cabinet (with the grill inset into the front of the cabinet) went out of favor when research discovered the problem of diffraction caused by the sound from the drivers reflecting off of the front edges of the cabinet, solved by having the front baffle not inset into the cab. At subwoofer frequencies, however, diffraction is not a concern. That 6-1/2" depth is a compromise between supporting the lowest possible frequency while not creating too much of a cavity resonance. The depth of the driver cavity doesn't have to be exactly 6-1/2"---You can make it an inch shallower or deeper without incurring a serious penalty in sound quality or quantity.
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Thanks. Just what I needed to hear since 1 of the boards is already glued into place.
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You may have already noticed this, but there is one mistake in the plans for the H-Frame. The dimension given for the depth of the frame is 13.5", which is incorrect. It is actually 14"---6.5" for each driver cavity plus 1" for the baffle thickness. Unless I'm misunderstanding something!
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I think the Super-V only used a 3/4" baffle making the depth 13.75". I don't see the point of making the baffle any thicker as there is really no panel there to resonate, the coutouts and drivers pretty much take up the whole area.
If you've got the material , making it thicker isn't going to hurt but not necessary.
-jay
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I think the Super-V only used a 3/4" baffle making the depth 13.75". I don't see the point of making the baffle any thicker as there is really no panel there to resonate, the coutouts and drivers pretty much take up the whole area.
If you've got the material , making it thicker isn't going to hurt but not necessary.
-jay
The 1" spec for the baffle came not from me but from the plans for an H-Frame found in the listing for the GR-12-16FR driver on the GR Research website. I brought it to the OP's attention only in case he is building his H-Frame from those plans, and wanted to let him know that if he uses the 13.5" spec to cut his top piece, it will be 0.5" short. That 13.5" spec, were it to be correct, and assuming that both driver cavities are indeed 6.5" deep, would require the baffle be 0.5" thick, surely not something Danny would suggest.
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I mentioned it only in case the OP is building his H-Frame from the plans found in the GR-12-16FR driver's listing. If he uses the 13.5" spec to cut his top piece, it will be 0.5" too shallow.
Ahh, you're right, hadn't seen those plans before. Good catch. A bit different than the Super- V drawing
-jay
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Error noted and corrected.
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Error noted and corrected.
I think you missed the note at the top of Pg 3 Front View. It is currently "Top panels is 16” wide and 13.5” deep" and if I understand correctly it should be "Top panels is 16” wide and 14” deep"
gab
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I think you missed the note at the top of Pg 3 Front View. It is currently "Top panels is 16” wide and 13.5” deep" and if I understand correctly it should be "Top panels is 16” wide and 14” deep"
gab
Also noted and corrected.
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Where are the H-Frame Plans available. Thanks Guys, ZAK
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:duh: :duh: I found them. Are there any advantages of going with three per side. Thanks ZAK
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Where are the H-Frame Plans available. Thanks Guys, ZAK
You can find them here http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/H-frame%202.pdf
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Thanks mlundy57, I found them. Thanks ZAK
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Shorter is better. I use a SpeakOn connector at the end of the factory wiring coming off of the amp. Then plug that into the female SpeakOn that gets mounted to the back of the H frame.
Where would you mount the connector at the back of the H-Frame?
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Where would you mount the connector at the back of the H-Frame?
You can mount the connector on the inside back corner of the side panel.
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Are there any advantages of going with three per side. Thanks ZAK
More output and overall , you'd be working each driver less to reach a given SPL so less distortion/cleaner. At normal listening levels ( relative I know) mine are being worked very little
-jay
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Thanks Captainhemo for info. Your setup is awesome, and I'll bet it sounds incredible. ZAK
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I will finally join the servo sub club. I will also start with a dual 12" H-frame and I'm very excited to get started! The second one will be added at a later point. Will use this build to improve my poor wood working skills. If all goes wrong, my back-up plan is of course to buy the the nice looking CNC cut frames you offer.
Captainhemo -
I noticed on the GR Research drawing that the brace location is off-set between front and back but it looks like the dado you cut is straight across? Is the only difference the total height of the H-frame - 26 3/4" vs 26"?
Thanks again to you and everyone else who has shared their builds for the inspiration!
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Saves you .75" in height if you offset them.
The ones I've been building (these and the CNC ones) use the exact same size "chamber" front and rear, 13" x 13" instead of the 13" x 12.25" you get with the offset braces.
You're in for a real treat with these subs :beer:
jay.
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Thanks Jay!
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I am hopefully building one of theses as well as got hold of a370 servo amp here in Uk which is rather rare.
Not decided on what to build yet. I would love to build H frame open baffle but dont really have a lot of space for it and it will probably end up in corner of the room. Will this limit the performance of this sub?
I also have pretty much ideal sealed box for my current sub about 50 liter 2 cu ft or so in size. If I just get servo driver for it it will save me lot of hassle. What is the main difference between sealed and OB?
I am using N3's on end of amp camp. Listening on low levels most of the time - late night so spl is not an issue. Just want to add bit of extra dimension to the bass.
Thanks
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I can send you an amp and woofer or woofers. No problem.
The open baffle subs need breathing room. Near a corner is not going to give you good results.
Our sealed box SW-12-04 servo woofer needs just 1.5 to 1.8 cubic feet of air space. You might be able to use your current box for them if the through hole for the woofer is no bigger than 11" across. You can also line the inside of your box with a thin layer of MDF to stiffen it up and take up a little air space at the same time.
It sounds like the sealed box version might be more ideal for your application.
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Hi Danny.
Thanks for quick reply. Just measured the box again and it seems like it is around 2cu ft without the driver (not sure if you take this into measurements or no) I am not sure if I can add any braces as it already have 2 braces going accross and it is all build from 1" material (bought already built so not sure what it is - looks like something solid not MDF). Box is bery solid and braced very well hence I was thinking it should work. Hole is tiny bit over 11" so it should work ok.
I think I will go with sealed for now due to the cost involved with shipping and tax etc. You should really open some european branch Danny as there would be definitelly lots of interest for the Subs and kits.
Now I just need to find second hand driver and get some cheap courier from Us to Uk :-)
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Danny wrote:
Near a corner is not going to give you good results.
Danny, what's the minimum distance from a corner?
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Danny wrote: Danny, what's the minimum distance from a corner?
The open baffle subs really need to be out from the corner three feet or more. And treating the corners with some tube traps of some kind will really help as well.
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Hi Danny.
Thanks for quick reply. Just measured the box again and it seems like it is around 2cu ft without the driver (not sure if you take this into measurements or no) I am not sure if I can add any braces as it already have 2 braces going accross and it is all build from 1" material (bought already built so not sure what it is - looks like something solid not MDF). Box is bery solid and braced very well hence I was thinking it should work. Hole is tiny bit over 11" so it should work ok.
That is actually what I'd call very mildly built. Cutting you some pieces of MDF and gluing them in with liquid nails will really help. And on that I'd line it with No Rez or at least some industrial floor tiles.
I'll get you a shipping quote on Monday.
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That is some awesome build quality in these frames for the OB 12's. I might resurrect my two pairs and rebuilt as you have! How did the final finishing completed set come out and do you have pic you can post?