AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: WillyP on 23 Jul 2020, 09:30 am
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Hi all,
What is the best way to connect an iPhone (or iPad) with Lightning output to a Bryston DAC, such as the BDA-3.14 or the SP3? I am asking this because of my interest in iDAGIO and Primephonic streaming services and they are not natively supported by Bryston.
I know that it is possible to use an Airplay emulator with the BDA-3.14 but there also other options. There is a connection kit for HDMI and perhaps also for connection to the SPDIF or USB ports.
Important for me are sound quality and ease of use. Video quality would be a nice bonus in case of an HDMI connection kit.
Who can tell me more?
WillyP
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Hi all,
What is the best way to connect an iPhone (or iPad) with Lightning output to a Bryston DAC, such as the BDA-3.14 or the SP3? I am asking this because of my interest in iDAGIO and Primephonic streaming services and they are not natively supported by Bryston.
I know that it is possible to use an Airplay emulator with the BDA-3.14 but there also other options. There is a connection kit for HDMI and perhaps also for connection to the SPDIF or USB ports.
Important for me are sound quality and ease of use. Video quality would be a nice bonus in case of an HDMI connection kit.
Who can tell me more?
WillyP
A lightning to usb adaptor should allow you to connect your iPhone to most USB DAC for playback. However unless the iOS app and the service both offer/support 24-bit content you'd likely be better off using the airplay emulation. iOS natively is limited to 16bit 48khz, the same resolution as airplay and offers the advantage of being wireless. WhatHifi wrote a pretty detailed article about it here
https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/how-to-play-hi-res-music-your-iphone-0
Chris
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A lightning to usb adaptor should allow you to connect your iPhone to most USB DAC for playback. However unless the iOS app and the service both offer/support 24-bit content you'd likely be better off using the airplay emulation. iOS natively is limited to 16bit 48khz, the same resolution as airplay and offers the advantage of being wireless. WhatHifi wrote a pretty detailed article about it here
https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/how-to-play-hi-res-music-your-iphone-0
Chris
I’m pretty sure a standard lightning to USB cable won’t give you a digital output. For that you’d need an Apple camera kit. I’m not sure about newer nor current iPhones, but my iPhone SE (original version) needs a camera kit to use my Audioquest dragonfly.
The link didn’t say to use the camera kit, but the pics show it. It’s the short white cable with the larger than usual usb end.
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A lightning to usb adaptor should allow you to connect your iPhone to most USB DAC for playback. However unless the iOS app and the service both offer/support 24-bit content you'd likely be better off using the airplay emulation. iOS natively is limited to 16bit 48khz, the same resolution as airplay and offers the advantage of being wireless. WhatHifi wrote a pretty detailed article about it here
https://www.whathifi.com/us/advice/how-to-play-hi-res-music-your-iphone-0
Chris
Thanks, Chris, for your reply. A resolution of 16 bit / 48 kHz is fine for me. Which Airplay emulator would you advise, Shairport-Sync or Shairplay? I have no idea what the differences are between the two.
WillyP
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I’m pretty sure a standard lightning to USB cable won’t give you a digital output. For that you’d need an Apple camera kit. I’m not sure about newer nor current iPhones, but my iPhone SE (original version) needs a camera kit to use my Audioquest dragonfly.
The link didn’t say to use the camera kit, but the pics show it. It’s the short white cable with the larger than usual usb end.
Thanks, Stu, for your reply. I was aware that a Camera Connection Kit would be necessary for the Audioquest Dragonfly. Sometimes there are bundles available. The Audioquest Dragonfly is Apple MFi-approved and so is the Bryston BDA-3.14 when Airplay is used, but I am not sure if this is the case when there is a direct connection between the iPhone and the Bryston DAC.
WillyP
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Thanks, Chris, for your reply. A resolution of 16 bit / 48 kHz is fine for me. Which Airplay emulator would you advise, Shairport-Sync or Shairplay? I have no idea what the differences are between the two.
WillyP
Shairport-sync
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Hey Willy P
If you have access to a Raspberry Pi Ropieee XL includes Shairport-sync.
Better experience if you install Ropieee first, update it to latest version reboot as prompted then move slider over for XL upgrade rebooting as prompted.
Then access web interface and enable Shairport-sync with DAC connected to USB works for me. I am using a Pi4b.
Cheers
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@Chris, thanks.
@Jerry, thanks for your suggestion. I already have a BDA-3.14 DAC / Streamer, with built-in Raspberry Pi 3 board, so I can use the Shairport-Sync option.
WillyP
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Any BDP or BDA owners using AirPlay or Apple Music Streaming? What is your opinion on the performance?
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I have a BDP pi used on an outdoor system that I utilize shairport-sync to stream music via an iPhone or iPad (either from local music files or apps like Spotify) which sounds ok but it certainly sounds better in mpd playing USB files although I’d surely love it if the pi could stream files from my BDP2 that’s on the same network.....Hint Hint Hint to Mr Chris
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The Bryston BW-2 and BW-2 Mini wireless speakers both have Spotify Connect built-in and I wouldn’t mind if the BDA-3.14 had the same option. Is it difficult to incorporate Spotify or Spotify Connect in Manic Moose or Nutty Narwhal?
WillyP
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I have asked various versions of this question of iPhone as a direct digital source that bypasses the iPhone/iPad/iPod's DAC and uses an external DAC, in my case the DAC in my Preamp, and rarely get confirmation.
An Oppo I own is a great experience even allowing me to use the Oppo remote to control the iPod I have connected.
"The HA-1 passes Apple's "MFi" certification and is compatibile with the latest iPod, iPhone and iPad to be used as the digital audio output accessory of these devices. By tapping directly into the digital audio signal of these devices and converting the audio to analog using the high performance SABRE32 Reference DAC, music from your favorite portable device will sound its best."
As I researched a preamp for a new 2-channel room I had trouble getting a strait answer. As far as I can tell most preamps with a USB DAC allow connection from your iPhone/iPad/iPod via the Apple Camera Connection Kit. This should bypass the i device DAC and allow me to play my Apple Lossless files I've saved in iTunes using my preamps USB DAC, although not with the control of the HA-1. I wonder why so few manufacturers offer this. License fees? There are a lot of Apple owners out there, granted the HA-1 is a headphone amp with preamp capability.
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dp
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I have asked various versions of this question of iPhone as a direct digital source that bypasses the iPhone/iPad/iPod's DAC and uses an external DAC, in my case the DAC in my Preamp, and rarely get confirmation.
An Oppo I own is a great experience even allowing me to use the Oppo remote to control the iPod I have connected.
"The HA-1 passes Apple's "MFi" certification and is compatibile with the latest iPod, iPhone and iPad to be used as the digital audio output accessory of these devices. By tapping directly into the digital audio signal of these devices and converting the audio to analog using the high performance SABRE32 Reference DAC, music from your favorite portable device will sound its best."
As I researched a preamp for a new 2-channel room I had trouble getting a strait answer. As far as I can tell most preamps with a USB DAC allow connection from your iPhone/iPad/iPod via the Apple Camera Connection Kit. This should bypass the i device DAC and allow me to play my Apple Lossless files I've saved in iTunes using my preamps USB DAC, although not with the control of the HA-1. I wonder why so few manufacturers offer this. License fees? There are a lot of Apple owners out there, granted the HA-1 is a headphone amp with preamp capability.
Thanks for your extensive reply. On the Apple website, I found three possible options:
Lightning to USB Camera Adapter (USB-A)
Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter (USB-A and USB-C)
Lightning Digital AV Adapter (HDMI)
For me, the sound quality is the most important. My DACs have inputs for both USB and HDMI.
Which option will give me the best sound quality?
WillyP
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I think the USB option would be the best for SQ. I'd like Bryston to verify this, but on the BDA-3 and such, I think only the USB is asynchronous (using internal clock), while the all the other inputs like SPDIF/optical/AES are synchronous to the incoming clock?
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I bought this one Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228906)
It allows you to charge your device while in use without putting a draw on port for power. USB-C to device is available as well. Works fine with my old iPad Air 2
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Thanks, Jerry, for the answer. Can I ask which USB cable you have used? And which DAC?
WillyP
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Good Day Willy
Used it with my BDA-3 before selling it. Haven't tried it on my BR-20 but see James T is doing it. I keep my streamer that supports Roon connected USB on BR-20 until it goes Roon Ready. (hate moving my 80 pound speakers)
I have an old iPad Air 2 and worked fine with pictured adapter. The problem is control with the Air 2. The control feature using switch control doesn't see Air 2, does see wifes iPhone XR so assume its because Air 2 is old (2014). Good old Apple.
My Mac Mini is too old to run Big Sur so trying to decide whether to update iPhone and use the old XR for Apple Music Lossless playback or buy a Mac Mini M1 use remote app which I know will work also (have read this also up converts everything on Roon community). Have also tried my Apple TV 4k 2nd gen connected to BDA-3 HDMI input but didn't like sound as much as when connected USB from iPad.
Wasn't paying close attention and didn't notice if everything is unconverted using iPhone or iPad (don't think so but) like it is on my PC. PC connects HDMI to my BR-20 (with HDMI Extenders) up converts everything to 24/48.
Have two type of USB cable one the the Monoprice Monolith 6' and the other is a AudioQuest - Cinnamon 1.5m. When using my BDA-3 and Lumin Streamer I did find the AQ USB a little better. Haven't had a chance yet to meet with audio buddies to do blind listening tests as it was very close. I did try to compare Monolith in comparison to off the shelve USB cables and noticed it right away. That one the wife agreed on but that was still using Allo Pi equipment to feed my RME Dac with Roon. Prior to buying the BDA-3.
(These off the shelve cables have been sitting in drawers maybe as much as from 10-20 years...)
Being in IT I have to wonder that USB cables sound better but my ears are my ears...I have tried Network cables and made no difference, I do like shielded NIC cable better but that isn't a sound thing that's an interference thing. You need managed switches to see stuff like that. Something to think about in smart homes I have 27 wireless clients so tend to hardwire everything where possible.
FYI
Recovering from concussion so still some brain fog and balance issues. I only mention as it affects memory too...
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Hi bokko
Any advice on how to implement Switch Control. I have tried a few times with one IPAD to another with no luck? :scratch:
james
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Chalk my answer up to happy wife happy life.
At step were you add device with bluetooth her XR was visible by it's name to my XR. At this point I stopped see above ;-)
Just assumed it worked, my Air2 was too old. With my old iPad it was not not visible to my XR at that step 10.
Real PIA I mean a PC or Mac works with apple remote app but everything is up converted, iPad, iPhone have control issues.
Back in the day you could control phones and iPads with the apple remote app would leave my iPhone 3 and later 4 attached to Harmon Kardon portable speakers at cottage or outside at pool. Used someone elses phone to control my phone which was running apple music. You both had to be on same wifi network that was it. Apple never leaves well enough alone. That being said I have 2 factor authorization enabled may that's why...
https://www.alphr.com/control-ipad-remotely/
Step 10 is where XR is visible and Air 2 is not.
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Which source do you choose?
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229077)
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I did try the ApowerMirror, the Zoho Assist one is just too expensive. Both seem more remote support based.
The apowermirror did connect but no audio and with costs involved not really wanting to pay for something like this. It works controlling my PC but no help to me.
Using the Apple Remote to control my PC to access Apple Music there (PC is already on running for Roon) but at that point only next and volume control is available Probably playlists too.
I still need to go to listening room to change playlists, etc (2nd screen on PC is cloned to my TV, controlled using a bluetooth keyboard with touchpad built in.) so is fine when in room.
Now on PC looks like my new video card does support up to 24/ 192 at least the HDMI input Called Bryston BR-20 reports to windows it does. So accessed setting in iTunes and increased to 192k. Sure enough it does, but still just up converts everything to 24/192 not staying bit perfect. To me the same songs that I have just been listing to on BR-20 streamer or Roon via my streamer just sound much better. Even switching back to iPad via USB again sounds a much better than HDMI.
Not sure what causes that as my Sony UBP-X800M2 connected to another BR-20 HDMI input playing SACD's sound just a good as same files I ripped to DSD. (Native light is on too when playing SACD's)
With iPad I do see that sound remains bitperfect in case people aren't sure how to check other than display on BDA or BR you touch the fancy ~ representing apple lossless.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=229078)
A buddy who is my go to Apple Guru is on east coast with his Dad's setup isn't having much luck getting his Switch Control working either. Dads stuff is an iPad Pro and iPhone 12 maybe they broke something in last update. Perhaps the way its written. Why even use Bluetooth to me WiFi would be better. I'll keep poking around.
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James it would be external but you need to do a Bluetooth connection first to select it as I read it.
I then see name of iPad Air 2 on Bluetooth add screen on my iPhone and it says its unsupported when selected.
Can't get to point where the black screen comes up and you would select device like a step is missing or must be done prior to this.
Have tried several more apps Apowermirror and teamviewer both kill apple music audio on connecting. Both record session so space hogs. Join.me used to work per some forum posts but did not work for me. Meeting was fine screen sharing not.
Guessing apple changed something the Switch Control article is from 2019...
Sorry I didn't try myself before sending. Apple stuff usually works.