AudioCircle

The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Topic started by: MaxCast on 19 Jan 2016, 01:31 pm

Title: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: MaxCast on 19 Jan 2016, 01:31 pm
Axpona April 15-17, Rosemont, IL

http://www.axpona.com/
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: JLM on 19 Jan 2016, 02:34 pm
Besides buying a T-shirt (got plenty now), can we come up with some sort of Audio Circle identification (using our AC nicknames) to recognize each other at this (and other) shows?

Feel so bummed out discovering afterwards that someone from AC was at the same show on the same day and may have walked right past them.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Big Red Machine on 19 Jan 2016, 03:27 pm
How about a meet and greet Friday at some location and time?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: TomS on 19 Jan 2016, 03:40 pm
I'll be there
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 19 Jan 2016, 04:31 pm
ACA will be on the 2nd Floor in The Sheffield Room with Modwright, Skogrand Cables, & Triangle Art.

It's going to be FUN.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: ted_b on 19 Jan 2016, 04:51 pm
How about a meet and greet Friday at some location and time?

Pete, I agree.  I'll see you sometime, at some location.

If I do another DSD seminar we could meet there and throw $h!5 at me.

Seriously, an AC Friday evening would be fun.  Lobby at 6pm?  Something like Hofbrau?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 19 Jan 2016, 07:16 pm
What is this location and time?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: ted_b on 19 Jan 2016, 07:20 pm
What is this location and time?

Well, the thread is only 7 (now eight) posts old so not too much info yet.  In the post directly before yours I threw out 6pm in the lobby, for maybe a trip to the HofbrauHaus (down the street a mile or so; we did that a couple years ago).  That's the net of it.  If you have a better time or location I'm sure we can work it out.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 19 Jan 2016, 07:47 pm
Oops. I'll probably have to pass at that location. (Food issues) Sounds like fun though :thumb:

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 19 Jan 2016, 08:04 pm
I'm in.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Gopher on 19 Jan 2016, 08:04 pm
LampizatOr will be there in room 654 where we will debut our dedicated music server, the DSD Komputer in play with one of our DACs (probably a golden gate).

Confirmed room partners will be Vapor and Verrastarr.

Love to catch up with some of my AC peeps while we're there!
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: JLM on 19 Jan 2016, 09:52 pm
What about the folks who can only make it for a day or can't all come to a dinner out?  Could someone post a fillable/printable AC name tag or set up next to the registration desk with AC stickers?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: ted_b on 19 Jan 2016, 10:20 pm
Oops. I'll probably have to pass at that location. (Food issues) Sounds like fun though :thumb:

The lets do something else.  Drinks maybe, or just a get together in some unused ballroom or at the Westin bar.

JLM, I doubt if Axpona folks will let us make addtl name tags, and the registration process asks for standard first name last name stuff, no real chance for forum monikers.  We need an AC meeting place.   Or ask everyone to go to the drug store and get "Hello My Name Is" tags and put our AC moniker on it and put it on our shirts/jackets.  If I remember, the Axpona badges are lanyard type (hanging from the neck).
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 19 Jan 2016, 10:33 pm
You guys can all come to our room. :)
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: JLM on 19 Jan 2016, 11:00 pm
Ted, was thinking of a secondary table (maybe self-serve) next to to the registration area.

Perhaps AC sponsors could provide stickers/whatever for AC members. 

Last year I rode with a friend (500 miles round trip) and we did the show in a day, so no time for an extravagant meal afterwards.  Don't know how many others are in the same boat.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: tesseract on 19 Jan 2016, 11:52 pm
Wayne Myers and I will be reporting for HTS again this year. HofbrauHaus is a great place to order shots for your friends.   :icon_twisted: :whip:
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 20 Jan 2016, 12:51 am
The lets do something else.  Drinks maybe, or just a get together in some unused ballroom or at the Westin bar.

JLM, I doubt if Axpona folks will let us make addtl name tags, and the registration process asks for standard first name last name stuff, no real chance for forum monikers.  We need an AC meeting place.   Or ask everyone to go to the drug store and get "Hello My Name Is" tags and put our AC moniker on it and put it on our shirts/jackets.  If I remember, the Axpona badges are lanyard type (hanging from the neck).

I'd be happy to meet up for drink! I'm just... a pain with food and it's annoying for me especially.

Sticky tags seems like a decent idea. Maybe someone would like organize purchasing stickers online that have the audio circle logo on them, and sending them out for a few $ ?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: MaxCast on 21 Jan 2016, 02:31 pm
How about an AC sponsor have the stickers in their room.  Try to meet at a certain time Friday and Saturday.  Who has a big room??
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: enjoythemusic on 22 Jan 2016, 10:06 am
Look fwd to attending AXPONA and will keep an eye for when/where to meet-up. FYI: There's a great Chicago pizza place around the corner (behind the McDonalds). Am sure many exhibitors would love to have us meet there, yet what about pizza and beer instead :)
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: JLM on 22 Jan 2016, 12:52 pm
Look fwd to attending AXPONA and will keep an eye for when/where to meet-up. FYI: There's a great Chicago pizza place around the corner (behind the McDonalds). Am sure many exhibitors would love to have us meet there, yet what about pizza and beer instead :)

You're thinking of Giordano’s.  It's a local chain that make wonderful deep dish pizza.  Easy walking distance from the hotel, just walk out the front and turn left - two doors down.  Ate there last year (and at other Giordano's in years past). 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 22 Jan 2016, 02:27 pm
We do. :)

We'll be in Sheffield Room.

How about an AC sponsor have the stickers in their room.  Try to meet at a certain time Friday and Saturday.  Who has a big room??
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: ted_b on 22 Jan 2016, 03:02 pm
Hugh,
I look forward to seeing you again.

Thanks for the offer to be an AC meeting place.  Here is my proposal:  Hugh brings a stack of "Hello My Name Is" name tag stickers and we use them for AC identification.  We put our AC username/moniker on them and place them on our shirts, independent of our Axpona badges.  That way we id our Audio Circle brethren walking the halls, regardless of meeting them at some dinner locale.

The Sheffield ballroom is located on the "second level" (I have that in quotes cuz the Westin floor plans makes it look like it is below the lobby?), but I remember only the "lower level" (shown below the second level) as being below the lobby.  Anyway...we'll find it.
http://iplan.meetingmatrix.com/Apps/Explorer/WSCHIOH/en/imperial/default?start=true#/itemId/248713
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Triode Pete on 22 Jan 2016, 06:10 pm
How about an AC sponsor have the stickers in their room.  Try to meet at a certain time Friday and Saturday.  Who has a big room??

We'll be in the large Dearborn Room (across from the front desk) along the large Volti Lounge area, if you want to assemble there...

In the large Dearborn Room,  will be Volti Audio, BorderPatrol Audio Electronics and vinyl being played on the brand new Well Tempered Royale 400 turntable. Of course, the entire Cable Loom will be by Triode Wire Labs.

We'll also be on the 3rd floor in Exhibit Room 314, with Vinnie Rossi and Volti Audio 

I hope to meet & see some of you guys there!

Cheers,
Pete
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: TomS on 22 Jan 2016, 08:35 pm
We do. :)

We'll be in Sheffield Room.
So are you bringing the big boys (ugh Seraphims)?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 22 Jan 2016, 09:19 pm
Yes Sir. :)

So are you bringing the big boys (ugh Seraphims)?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 22 Jan 2016, 09:20 pm
Ted,

Likewise.

I could do that. :)

How many do you think we may need?

Hugh,
I look forward to seeing you again.

Thanks for the offer to be an AC meeting place.  Here is my proposal:  Hugh brings a stack of "Hello My Name Is" name tag stickers and we use them for AC identification.  We put our AC username/moniker on them and place them on our shirts, independent of our Axpona badges.  That way we id our Audio Circle brethren walking the halls, regardless of meeting them at some dinner locale.

The Sheffield ballroom is located on the "second level" (I have that in quotes cuz the Westin floor plans makes it look like it is below the lobby?), but I remember only the "lower level" (shown below the second level) as being below the lobby.  Anyway...we'll find it.
http://iplan.meetingmatrix.com/Apps/Explorer/WSCHIOH/en/imperial/default?start=true#/itemId/248713
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: ted_b on 22 Jan 2016, 09:25 pm
100 pack at NewEgg is $2 (shipping sucks).  Maybe local Office supply place.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 22 Jan 2016, 09:27 pm
I can afford that. :D

100 pack at NewEgg is $2 (shipping sucks).  Maybe local Office supply place.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 22 Jan 2016, 09:38 pm

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135683)

I have no idea how to make this look good. Stickers online aren't overly cheap. This place (http://www.stickeryou.com/2/products/custom-stickers/335/) would be like $30 for 48 stickets at 2.5"w.

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: ted_b on 22 Jan 2016, 09:40 pm
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135683)

I have no idea how to make this look good. Stickers online aren't overly cheap. This place (http://www.stickeryou.com/2/products/custom-stickers/335/) would be like $30 for 48 stickets at 2.5"w.

But I think it would be confusing if we all wore Folsom badges!!   






:)

(edit: actually I take that back.  I think it would be a hoot if we all wore FOLSOM badges!!  Then folks would have to stop us in the halls and ask us if we were really FOLSOM.  And it would also test our memories........oh god!
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 22 Jan 2016, 09:43 pm
Ha Ha Ha
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 22 Jan 2016, 09:46 pm
Just got a box of 2"x4" label.

We are set. :)
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 22 Jan 2016, 09:55 pm
I'm willing to contribute to the custom stickers.

Think about how cool it would be to get some new members on here!

I wouldn't mind if they all said Folsom, good advertisement :) But in general it might be more pleasurable for us if they don't.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 22 Jan 2016, 10:20 pm
How about this? ;) :)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=135688)

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 22 Jan 2016, 10:37 pm
Meh.. I want new members! I think it would be impressive. I'll see if I can get the logo touched up by a Photoshop nerd. And then maybe I'll just pay for the stickers.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: enjoythemusic on 28 Jan 2016, 01:12 pm
Hi, my name is Steven and I'm a longtime PS nerd (over 12 years experience). E-mail me the graphics and i'll make it all purty for ya  8)   Will leave it as a PSD so you can easily change the text for name insertion/change. Tag me via Contact Us on bottom of page www.EnjoyTheMusic.com
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 9 Apr 2016, 03:37 pm
Is Sunday a good day to attend? Do vendors pack up their room early? Which day is normally the busiest?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 9 Apr 2016, 05:43 pm
I think I emailed Steve.

Rush 3 day for the stickers. It's about $60 for 30 of them. They might have to be delivered to Axpona or to someone who's going to be home Thursday but at Axpona in the morning, and if I did order would anyone want to help pay? They'll have the AudioCircle logo.


Actually I think the rush is for printing. I'm not sure I can get stickers so soon. May have dropped the ball unless I find a local place.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 15 Apr 2016, 02:40 am
Alright, looks like I'm going to make it over on Sunday!

Which ones are the must see rooms? I'm also counting on early show reports from the first two days to help lead the way  :D
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: EdRo on 15 Apr 2016, 10:24 pm
Has anyone hung out at the Lampi/Vapor/Veristarr room yet?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 15 Apr 2016, 10:39 pm
Yes. Vapor speakers sound good. They're also not trying to kill anyone with power like some of the locations.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 15 Apr 2016, 11:26 pm
Has anyone hung out at the Lampi/Vapor/Veristarr room yet?

It was great. Except for the rack.  :lol:

No really, beautiful rack and great sound! Better than I remember those speakers the first time round.

Those $3k Salks in the basement are killer too. Lampi DAC in that room too

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dB Cooper on 16 Apr 2016, 02:16 pm
Who doesn't appreciate a beautiful rack.

On a somewhat more serious note, this is an Axpona thread... Day 1 is in the bag, and there's not a single photo (and few comments about) a room yet??? Somebody but have brought at least a smartphone camera??? Help us live vicariously, Axpona peeps.

I like JLM's idea about AC name tags. The crazed look in the eyes isn't a reliable enough indicator. Just did a quick google and Avery makes printable labels. They're not expensive. Will look into this for CAF in July. I'm sure Gary would be OK with that.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dB Cooper on 16 Apr 2016, 02:32 pm
-accidental duplicate-
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Triode Pete on 16 Apr 2016, 02:50 pm
Who doesn't appreciate a beautiful rack.

On a somewhat more serious note, this is an Axpona thread... Day 1 is in the bag, and there's not a single photo (and few comments about) a room yet??? Somebody but have brought at least a smartphone camera??? Help us live vicariously, Axpona peeps.

I like JLM's idea about AC name tags. The crazed look in the eyes isn't a reliable enough indicator. Just did a quick google and Avery makes printable labels. They're not expensive. Will look into this for CAF in July. I'm sure Gary would be OK with that.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141331)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141332)




A couple pics... Sorry, I'm trapped & can't get out!... But I'm loving it!

Cheers,
Pete
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: martinr on 16 Apr 2016, 04:26 pm
Here's the first Friday mini review I've seen:  http://www.enjoythemusic.com/AXPONA_2016/AXPONA_2016_Show_Report/Friday.htm
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 16 Apr 2016, 04:59 pm
I am an awful photographer, and I hopped rooms very selectively. But the other highlights were the Von Schweikert room, and LeHave audio.

Today I want to revisit Spatial (couldn't get an adequate impression based on the music being played and didn't want to interrupt a serious audition). And then I'll more systematically work through the rooms.

Oh, and on the headphones side. The new Mr Speakers electrostat headphones were great, as were the new IEMs from Alo Audio.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 16 Apr 2016, 05:39 pm
Congrats to Salk for the early nice feedback
http://www.stereophile.com/content/axponas-solid-start#g6LCmxpX3FwTQgbH.97
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Art_Chicago on 16 Apr 2016, 08:03 pm
Although song 3 are not shown.

The Salk power monitors is an awesome all in one package with kickass bass for their size.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 16 Apr 2016, 09:01 pm
Although song 3 are not shown.

The Salk power monitors is an awesome all in one package with kickass bass for their size.

They're a great deal for the package they are. Low bass isn't very distinct, but isn't real blown out either; the fact that they do it at all with notable volume is an achievement.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: gnostalgick on 16 Apr 2016, 10:46 pm
My girlfriend & I think that Ilies Sound (room 638) is the best value of the show. Also it was one of the few rooms that didn't hurt her ears (after a while) & the only room we really enjoyed all genres of music in.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Big Red Machine on 16 Apr 2016, 11:33 pm
AC'ers please identify yourselves if you come into 432. Im hiding in the corner DJing
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Art_Chicago on 17 Apr 2016, 01:43 am
I really like the rooms at the lower level,  second year in a row; and room 432 rules even though it is on the 4th floor.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 17 Apr 2016, 01:52 am
I really like the rooms at the lower level,  second year in a row; and room 432 rules even though it is on the 4th floor.

Really? Salk's big room was sounding pretty good but the rest where just trying to pound you with drums.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Big Red Machine on 17 Apr 2016, 02:14 am
Really? Salk's big room was sounding pretty good but the rest where just trying to pound you with drums.

Seriously. You can't be serious....
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Art_Chicago on 17 Apr 2016, 02:30 am
Really? Salk's big room was sounding pretty good but the rest where just trying to pound you with drums.

Really, indeed!  They did not "pound me with drums".
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 17 Apr 2016, 03:26 am
Seriously. You can't be serious....

Not a joke. It's like a drum competition from the first floor down. Jim had a nice vinyl piece with a female singer when I was in his big room. It sounded good. He's got no reason to avert showing a multitude of qualities by just trying to bust melons with dynamics in drums. Then he switched to the monitors that are pretty nice, and for the price probably unbeatable in their category. They significantly better than at least half the rooms.

Several of the manufacturers are fighting awful AC noise which may explain the choices; trying to get something going with positive attributes.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Vinnie R. on 17 Apr 2016, 05:39 am
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141331)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141332)


A couple pics... Sorry, I'm trapped & can't get out!... But I'm loving it!

Cheers,
Pete


More here (with some pics!) from the room I'm sharing with Pete / Volti, and the other room

I'm in with Harbeth 40.2's:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142422.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=142422.0)

It has been a very busy show on Saturday... hope to see more AC'ers on Day 3  :beer:

- Vinnie
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 17 Apr 2016, 01:27 pm
Any surprises so far, something that caught somebody's ear?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Art_Chicago on 17 Apr 2016, 02:15 pm
Any surprises so far, something that caught somebody's ear?
I spent only a day, so attended only a small number of the rooms, but ELAC for $ 500/ pair sounded pretty good. 3-way with the concentric drivers. Andrew Jones did examplary job as a showman.

Salk power monitor was another winner.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 17 Apr 2016, 02:18 pm
Those ELAC speakers aren't surprises due  to the Andrew Jones hype surrounding them. But damn they sound good. Those new monitors at $500 are killer, as are the B4 ($179!?!?) and the B6 (on the less crowded Peachtree room).

LeHave had a grew single driver sound and killer vinyl setup. I left them one of my LPs (Serge Gainsbourg "History...") because it sounded so good there. 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: goskers on 17 Apr 2016, 02:51 pm
I was able to spend most of Friday and a couple hours on Saturday at the show.  Here are some rooms which stuck out to me in no particular order of preference.

1) Duke of Audio Kinesis.  Great soundstage which didn't completely collapse when moving off center.  Not important to all but a benefit of waveguide usage.
2) Volti/Rossi LIO.  The smaller setup upstairs sounded terrific. 
3) ELAC UniFi.  I first heard these at CES.  Remarkable what is being done for 500 a pair.  I would encourage everyone in the industry to stop in for a listen.  These guys are setting the bar for value. 
4) MBL.  They had the best looking room of the show.  If anything, the engineering involved is very impressive.    Worth a visit just to see the setup.
5) Spatial M3.  These sounded very good.  For someone looking to get into the high end game these should be on the short list.

My .02
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: S1NN3R on 17 Apr 2016, 08:07 pm
Shout-out to Axpona rm322. Thank you for letting me sit in after hours. Amazing group of people, great sound. Keep rockin' guys ;^)
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Afterimage on 17 Apr 2016, 08:28 pm
A lot of the rooms sounded bright/hard to me.  I know show conditions are tough on these guys, but a lot of stuff I would never want to own based on what I heard at the show.  As for the best rooms.   Rossi's with the Harbeth was the best for me.  Very smooth sound.  Salk and Revel also sounded pretty good.   
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dminches on 17 Apr 2016, 08:37 pm
More so than in prior years I found that there were very few bad sounding rooms.  There are always a bunch of ear piercing setups but I thought this year had a ton of great sounding rooms including:

1 - Paragon audio with Doshi and Wilson
2 - Both Modwright rooms with Ryan speakers and another brand I can't remember
3 - MBL
4 - Salk room on LL
5 - Scenium (sp) with ARC amps
6 - Rossi and Harbeth
7 - Rossi and Volti

I am sure there are more.  Really good show this year.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Art_Chicago on 17 Apr 2016, 09:01 pm
More so than in prior years I found that there were very few bad sounding rooms.  There are always a bunch of ear piercing setups but I thought this year had a ton of great sounding rooms including:


I am sure there are more.  Really good show this year.

Agree-- I attended Axpona in 2013,2015 and now, and this one is noticeably better in average, imho.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 17 Apr 2016, 10:20 pm
If I could have found Jim Salk before the show ended and I needed to leave, there was a good chance I'd have left with those new  $3k. Wow. Those and Elac were steals of the show.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Tomy2Tone on 17 Apr 2016, 11:23 pm
If I could have found Jim Salk before the show ended and I needed to leave, there was a good chance I'd have left with those new  $3k. Wow. Those and Elac were steals of the show.

Wow, that good huh Roscoe?  Do they compare to any of Jim's other speakers?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Factorz on 18 Apr 2016, 12:19 am
Great day at the show today. My third year going and I only had 1 day to explore so I tried to be a little more organized and selective to what rooms I wanted to hit. Still wish there was a little more diversity with the music played and more rooms encouraged visitors to make requests. I can only take so many classical or slow jazz tracks, but I might be alone on this thought. My favorite rooms

Vapor Audio/Lampizator: I know I'm bias since I own a pair of Cirrus, but the room sounded great and it was good catching up with Ryan. Also nice to meet Gopher in person.

Salk: The Salk 3 were really impressive and this is a room I wish I could have played a request.

Elac: Unreal the performance you get with these. 

Sony: Both rooms sounded really good to me. Love the bass on these.

Odyssey: As always a great sounding room. Wish I could have spent more time in there, but it was packed each time I tried.
 
Hopefully it was a good show for all the vendors. Does anyone know if Tyler Acoustics were there? I always enjoy his room, but could not find him listed anywhere.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Don_S on 18 Apr 2016, 12:37 am

5 - Scenium (sp) with ARC amps

I am sure there are more.  Really good show this year.


5 = Scaena with two Audio Research Reference 75s.  I am not sure if they are the newest (SE) version but knowing Alan, I am sure they had KT-150s in them.

http://scaena.com/speakers.html
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Afterimage on 18 Apr 2016, 12:38 am
Great day at the show today. My third year going and I only had 1 day to explore so I tried to be a little more organized and selective to what rooms I wanted to hit. Still wish there was a little more diversity with the music played and more rooms encouraged visitors to make requests. I can only take so many classical or slow jazz tracks, but I might be alone on this thought. My favorite rooms

Vapor Audio/Lampizator: I know I'm bias since I own a pair of Cirrus, but the room sounded great and it was good catching up with Ryan. Also nice to meet Gopher in person.

Salk: The Salk 3 were really impressive and this is a room I wish I could have played a request.

Elac: Unreal the performance you get with these. 

Sony: Both rooms sounded really good to me. Love the bass on these.

Odyssey: As always a great sounding room. Wish I could have spent more time in there, but it was packed each time I tried.
 
Hopefully it was a good show for all the vendors. Does anyone know if Tyler Acoustics were there? I always enjoy his room, but could not find him listed anywhere.
As for the music, yes a lot of classical and jazz.  They tend to play it safe with only good recordings.   I would like to hear how a lot of these systems sound with pop/rock.   
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 18 Apr 2016, 12:48 am
Wow, that good huh Roscoe?  Do they compare to any of Jim's other speakers?

That good. Some Salk had been a bit hot or miss with me. I could appreciate them but not what I was looking for. I'm the other hand, I've loved the Exotica 3 and these new speakers!
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: ragnar01 on 18 Apr 2016, 05:52 am
Just got home from Chicago after a 7 hr drive, lots of time to discuss and debrief on AXPONA2016.

2nd year in Chicago for the full 3 days. Lots of fun and lots of stuff to think about.

Highlights:
For us, the best of the big boys seemed to be the big Legacies with a couple of rooms playing the larger YG Acoustics speakers in 2nd place and possible the GamuT room in 3rd. Most of the other big ticket, nose bleed systems were....nice..but not drop dead outstanding.

We were very impressed by the Spatial M3Turbos, the Sonists (again), both of the Volti rooms (again for the big units) and the Salk rooms. The basement Salks (powered mini monitor) and the Exotica3 (?) were very pleasing but the upstairs room with the $2500 slim tower in purple veneer was very tempting - very nice sound and a beautiful look. Salk weren't really on my radar before but now I will have to pay more attention. VinnieRossi/small Harbeth was smooth and very easy to listen to...also tempting. Andrew Jones' new mini 3ways ....there are no words - if the $1000 mini towers perform as expected compared to the mini monitors....wow. Another interesting room was the mini monitors with the add on electrostatic supertweeters stuck on top - interesting sound that needs more investigation.

Biggest smile was again from the Sanders room - how do they hide the musicians behind that birch pattern drapery. Second year running that this room had the best sound...if and only if your head was in exactly the right spot while sitting in the 2nd chair.  Another smile inducing room was Exasound playing multichannel DSotM through 5 Maggies - sublime.

Biggest disappointments - new MartinLogan panels - way too loud and not sure if it was the choice of music or just me, but to me there were bits in the high end that were actually painful - other people didn't seem to flinch and were praising the detail but after being a ML person for 30 years, I was extremely disappointed. MBL room was also way too loud and their choice of music (live rock played at concert+ levels) was offputting. Just because you can play at concert levels and still present all of the details in the recording doesn't meean that you should.

WTF? - aircleaner guys from Ukraine - hope they have better luck next time, never a good thing to see a technician sitting cross legged on the floor trying to feed new wiring through the side of the case with a soldering iron smoking on the floor beside...sigh. Went back Sunday morning and they had one speaker sort of working - nothing to write home about and definitely not ready for prime time....but, they were enthusiastic so hopefully we will see more in the future. WTFx2 - Synergistic Research with their resonance controlling buttons and mini rf sensitive resonators??? - I think I could hear a difference but what is going on here - presentation and subsequent sales pitch seemed pretty snakeoilish to me.

General comments - despite a previous poster, we thought there was a much greater diversity of music this year and many more rooms had the ability to play requests (mainly through larger Jriver libraries or Tidal connections) I had to Shazam way more tracks this year and most of the familiar tracks were requested by room visitors. There were a few rooms where the selection was (too) limited - usually if the system was vinyl or CD only and these rooms are starting to feel ...dated...! Best marketing room - CambridgeAudio - free sparkly wine or beer with refills offered for the road(hallway)! Regardless of anything else we heard, CambridgeAudio retains mindshare! All other manufacturers should take note and copy this techniquefor 2017! :-)

Overall, it was worth the weekend trip and we are already looking forward to next year.

Ragnar the Latvian
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Afterimage on 18 Apr 2016, 12:03 pm
^^^ I was the one of the ones that commented on the limited types of music they were playing.  I was only there for 4 hours, so that is just a snapshot and more than likely coincidental on the type of music I heard, which was only audiophile jazz and classical type recordings.   You spent a lot more time there so your take on the show music is a way bigger sample size for sure and more accurate than mine. 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dminches on 18 Apr 2016, 01:22 pm
I didn't think the music was narrowly focused at all.  There were some rooms that weren't really playing "music"  just stuff that they think makes their equipment sound good.

In one room the play list was:

Metallica
Miles Davis
Neil young
Lou Reed
Hank Mobley
Rickie Lee Jones
Pink Floyd
Oscar Peterson

And they played that on reel to reel, vinyl and digital files.

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Factorz on 18 Apr 2016, 01:48 pm
I agree that only having 1 day might have skewed my view, but I did not experience the musically diversity others did. Has anyone seen anything on attendance being up or down? The vendors I talked with said Saturday was packed, but Sunday was very slow.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dminches on 18 Apr 2016, 01:52 pm
Given the volume of people that attend on Saturday it is the day that the vendors are the least flexible with respect to music selection.  Friday and Sunday are always better for that.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: JLM on 18 Apr 2016, 01:56 pm
Attended Sunday this year (Saturday last year).  So only some rooms were crowded, but it seemed that the number of vendors was down from 2015.  Our strategy this year was to limit the number of rooms to those that we had interest in (which worked much better).  This allowed us more time to chat with exhibitors.  Unfortunately the Salk Power Monitors weren't being played when we were there. 


My practice for shows is to hope to simply get an impression.  So my notes are very sparse:

Poor sound - Tannoy (bass thumps, midrange thick in places), LX mini (Fostex room/thin sounding)

Meh - ATC, AVA/Salk room, Peachtree, ProAC

Good sound (with conditions) - JBL Everest (needed moderate levels in large room to open up)

Good sound (no conditions) - Emerald Physics (nice sounding but expensive), MidWest Audio Club (Mandolin/cheap kit), AudioKinesis (good dynamics), Sonus Faber (only OK with lots of McIntosh), PSB (with MQA), KEF Blade

Impressive Sound - Endeavor Audio Engineering, Salk Song 3, JansZen, Joseph Audio (smooth), Spatial M3 Turbo S (dynamic, good imaging), MBL (best of show), ELAC (Unifi/best value of the show)
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Apr 2016, 02:02 pm
In no order my favs were:

ELAC - No matter what the cost is these really make me wonder why I spend so much money on this stuff.

AudioKinesis - Fully balanced sound the way it should be. 

Spatial M3 Turbo after hours using the Vinnie Rossi LIO.  This was incredible!  Thanks for attending Vinnie and thanks to TomS for bringing his LIO!   :thumb:  Oh, should also thank Clayton Shaw for letting us take over his room for a bit and crank it.   :green:  These speakers really are the shizz. 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: rklein on 18 Apr 2016, 02:11 pm
In no order my favs were:

ELAC - No matter what the cost is these really make me wonder why I spend so much money on this stuff.

AudioKinesis - Fully balanced sound the way it should be. 

Spatial M3 Turbo after hours using the Vinnie Rossi LIO.  This was incredible!  Thanks for attending Vinnie and thanks to TomS for bringing his LIO!   :thumb:  Oh, should also thank Clayton Shaw for letting us take over his room for a bit and crank it.   :green:  These speakers really are the shizz.

What was the LIO configuration that Tom brought?  Which amps were used?

Thanks,

Randy
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Apr 2016, 02:25 pm
What was the LIO configuration that Tom brought?  Which amps were used?

Thanks,

Randy
Tom has the AVC/Tube, Mosfet Amp, Dac and phono.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jab on 18 Apr 2016, 02:32 pm
Best sounds at the show IMO and in no particular order-Von Schweikert/VAC-Elac-Gershman/Lamm-Gamut-DCS/Dynaudio/Aurender-Endeavor/Audio Alchemy-Aurum Cantus-live performances.  The Aurender servers and music players were everywhere.  Worst sound of the show= nightmare room interaction and the chatter that occurred btwn reps and a single audience member while the music played. 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: mr_bill on 18 Apr 2016, 02:35 pm
Best sounds at the show IMO and in no particular order-Von Schweikert/VAC-Elac-Gershman/Lamm-Gamut-DCS/Dynaudio/Aurender-Endeavor/Audio Alchemy-Aurum Cantus-live performances.  The Aurender servers and music players were everywhere.  Worst sound of the show= nightmare room interaction and the chatter that occurred btwn reps and a single audience member while the music played.

Hi Jab
What Dynaudio model was playing?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 18 Apr 2016, 02:51 pm
Also agree that the ATC were underwhelming, which was odd since I have heard their active speakers sound amazing. I want to heard them again in Music Direct's showroom. I was also disappointed in the PSB T3, which I had heard sound great at a previous show (AXPONA 2015, IIRC). They are another that I will revisit in a dealer's showroom. I'd recommend not basing opinions of either on how they sounded at AXPONA.

I was surprised by how good the Harbeth 40.2s sounded in the LIO room set up by Vinny. Last time I'd heard them in that size room, they over-dominated it. Great set-up job to make them sound great in such a small space.

Now time to start playing with my new Chord Mojo!!
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jab on 18 Apr 2016, 03:07 pm
Hi Jab
What Dynaudio model was playing?

 It was the small stand mounted Confidence C1 Platinum ($8750). Powered by the Octave V80 SE Integrated ($10900) Aurender A10 ($5000) and N100H ($2700) with the dCS Debussy DAC. Cables were the Nordost Valhalla 2.  A Clearaudio Innovation Basic was present, but I didn't hear it in use.  One of the few rooms I didn't want to run out of and in fact was VERY musical. 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 18 Apr 2016, 03:09 pm
It was the small stand mounted Confidence C1 Platinum ($8750). Powered by the Octave V80 SE Integrated ($10900) Aurender A10 ($5000) and N100H ($2700) with the dCS Debussy DAC. Cables were the Nordost Valhalla 2.  A Clearaudio Innovation Basic was present, but I didn't hear it in use.  One of the few rooms I didn't want to run out of and in fact was VERY musical.

Agreed that it was a nice sounding room. Liked it better than other Dynaudio I heard at the show. Those and the Joseph Pulsars (not at the show this year) are some great options if one wants to spend that kind of money on standmount speakers.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jab on 18 Apr 2016, 04:12 pm
not to change the subject but what music artists recording demo offered great dynamics and image float that you might use in your own system?   Isn't Shazzam great!

Mine were (excluding the usual Dire Straits, Keith Don't Go, Steely Dan, etc);

No Sanctuary Here-Chris Jones

Bass and Drum Intro-Neils Lofgren

Open Me Slowly-Rena Jones

Use Me-Junior Wells

Down In The Hole-John Campbell
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 18 Apr 2016, 05:08 pm
What a nice day I had at Axpona on Sunday. Came excited and left with a smile and some tired ears. Here are some early impressions and I will upload some pictures later and yes, I caught some good ones of AC industry contributors "dancing" :-)

This was my first show ever, but after taking Tyson and Pez' entry level course in attending audio shows over the last few years, I felt properly prepared. I'm now even more amazed how they could cover so much ground and do the live write ups.

It turned out Sunday was a perfect day to attend with easy access to the best chair in most rooms. If you only have one day to attend - go on Sunday. Not only that, show up early and use the pre opening hours to go to the headphone room. They were welcoming me and my friend early with open arms and by the time of the official opening time, we had listened to most headphone setup of interest and were ready for the speaker rooms. Plus listening first to headphones set a really good reference level to compare the big stereo systems with.

Surprise numer 1: I actually really liked headphones. 
Problem number 1: of course I liked one of the more expensive one combined with an expensive dac/ amp the best.

Surprise number 2: high end portable audio interfaces suck. Even the vendors said, let's not use that one because the user interface is too clunky and hard to use.

Surprise 3: I probably could have guessed this one but since I'm new to headphones, I didnt realize that stock cables are that poor. Dana cables had a stock cable vs. their own cable A/B test and the difference was enormous. It was kind of going up one price level in headphones by just swapping the cable.

There was also a big difference in performance depending of the amps/dacs used. Interestingly, one or two of true headphone vendors in the room didn't have any good dac/amps (and one other even had an AVR) so they kind of undersold the performance. But I guess it worked out OK anyways, since they loaned out multiple models to the booths that had the good set ups.

After ticking off the headphones, our strategy was to avoid any rooms with loud music or too much hifi sounding analytical high frequencies to save our ears as long as possible. In other words, we skipped all the super expensive systems until the very last which was a good move. After having just attended one day, I will now call BS on anyone claiming they can hear micro detailed differences of specific equipment used after three days that some reviewers seems to be able to extract. Yes, you'll definitely hear the character of the System/room set up, what you like or dislike of the system/room , but that was pretty much the only  things at least my untrained ear could distinguish after a couple of hours. After hitting the loud rooms in the afternoon it started to feel the same thing as barhopping trying out different beers. Big difference in the beginning and in the end it all seems to be mixed together.

Scratching my head number 1: one of the double refrigerator sized speakers had so much cabinet vibration they had put multiple pillows underneath and behind.  This was clearly visible to the audience. It vibrated kind of like an old washing machine during the rinse cycle. First of all, why does a speaker costing that much even have that poor vibration and if it does, why wouldn't the vendor come better prepared? Isn't the goal to actually inspire sales? I need to look up the name.

I need to continue the write up later, so to round it off, here is my Best thing of the show: The absolutely best thing was the opportunity to meet and talk to the designers themselves which probably is also the reason I found most of the smaller vendor's room more engaging.

To be continued.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jab on 18 Apr 2016, 05:08 pm
I especially enjoyed the Legends of High-End Audio moderated by Jim Hannon from TAS and featured a discussion by Dan D'Agostino, Kevin Hayes from VAC, Frank Van Alstine and Dave Wilson from of course, Wilson Audio.  Paul McGowan was supposed to be a speaker but he was stranded at the Denver Airport (snow storm).   The discussion topics included how they got their start and the future of hi-end.. 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jtwrace on 18 Apr 2016, 05:12 pm
the future of hi-end..
What's the future of high end?  Did they all agree? 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 18 Apr 2016, 05:17 pm
I especially enjoyed the Legends of High-End Audio moderated by Jim Hannon from TAS and featured a discussion by Dan D'Agostino, Kevin Hayes from VAC, Frank Van Alstine and Dave Wilson from of course, Wilson Audio.  Paul McGowan was supposed to be a speaker but he was stranded at the Denver Airport (snow storm).   The discussion topics included how they got their start and the future of hi-end..

And that's probably one of the reason to not only go one day since I missed all the interesting seminars. Did they tape it? Hope they did.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jab on 18 Apr 2016, 05:29 pm
What's the future of high end?  Did they all agree?

One only need to look around the room at the demographics to realize that it could get bumpy (majority Middle Aged white men). But the prevailing truth and goal was, to remain passionate about the music and to continue the technical search to bring the recorded experience as live to you, in the comfort of your living room.

Yes, they were recording the hour or so long talk.. I'm sure it'll pop up on utube or avshowrooms at some point.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: opnly bafld on 18 Apr 2016, 10:08 pm
Also agree that the ATC were underwhelming, which was odd since I have heard their active speakers sound amazing.

ATC SCMs are not a "wow" in the showroom and hate them a month later speaker, they are a speaker that you appreciate more and more as you listen to them.*  IME, as with all good speakers, amplification can make a significant difference.


*of course no speaker fits everyone's taste and preferences  :wink:
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 18 Apr 2016, 10:18 pm
ATC SCMs are not a "wow" in the showroom and hate them a month later speaker, they are a speaker that you appreciate more and more as you listen to them.*  IME, as with all good speakers, amplification can make a significant difference.


*of course no speaker fits everyone's taste and preferences  :wink:

Actually, I really liked the smaller passive ATCs last year, and am not sure why the room this year didn't sound as good. Sometimes larger speakers work against us in small rooms.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: opnly bafld on 18 Apr 2016, 10:23 pm
What speakers were they showing?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: roscoeiii on 18 Apr 2016, 10:28 pm
What speakers were they showing?

The Active 40s.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 18 Apr 2016, 11:37 pm
ATC's room was so fatiguing I lasted maybe 30 seconds, maybe only 10.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: opnly bafld on 18 Apr 2016, 11:56 pm
ATC's room was so fatiguing I lasted maybe 30 seconds, maybe only 10.

Can't speak for the 40As, but the Passive HiFi series certainly aren't fatiguing.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 19 Apr 2016, 01:37 am
I'm not making a proclamation that it was the speakers. I just couldn't be in the room.

In fact I think speakers are almost always the innocent ones when it comes to fatigue.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: goskers on 19 Apr 2016, 01:48 am
Foot in mouth evident on next page. 
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 19 Apr 2016, 02:14 am
Part of me is saying, just be nice... But honestly, go take a class in English; and if not at least re-read what I wrote. I don't appreciate sarcasm that's dishonest by redefining what someone else said; it's insulting.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: goskers on 19 Apr 2016, 02:26 am
My apologies.  Long day and my reading obviously failed.  Smart ass retracted accordingly.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 20 Apr 2016, 05:50 am
So this was my first time at Axpona. This won't be a short post, I'm going to say a fair amount, including some mini reviews.

Overview:

I arrived Thursday night. I road the shuttle to the airport, Lou from Daedalus was on it as well (wasn't sure it was him at the time). Being tired from flying and then running around using Uber taxi (also a first time thing) to hit up a few grocery stores to get some supplies for the days so I wouldn't have to run off to a restaurant every-time I wanted real food, I was pretty tired and went to bed early.

If you're staying at the hotel I highly suggest grabbing some food to have at the hotel. Even if you're there all three days like I was, you're very limited on time to spend paying attention to everything. And that is even walking out on many rooms that are simply just to painful to be in.

My big hopes were to learn about what gear sounds good that I've never heard, which would be the majority of it there. Honestly I thought I'd get exposed to a lot of very impressive sound, and some 'meh' stuff. Well, I was wrong.

Overall nearly all of it sounded bad; mostly real bad. It was such a huge eye opener to find out why people like certain gear, and how the gear is designed to sound. I'll go over more of that in a minute. It seemed like there was a competition between the large expensive setups with who could lay down the hardest drum beats to send people running from the rooms on the lower and main level, as a preview of what the show was like.

I'm going to contact Axpona people to talk a little bit about VIP passes. They are worth it if you get them early. If you don't have a hotel room the VIP room might be useful if there's literally no where else to sit but otherwise it didn't have windows and was sort of small with some simple tables and chairs. The wine and cheese night was about the only excuse to use it. As far as the semi private sessions for listening went they were really useful if they went well; and by that I mean it's important for the manufacturers to take them seriously; which wasn't always the case. But I think that's Axpona's fault, as I didn't get the impression manufacturers really knew the whole deal. Also your semi private events where back to back within 0 minutes so it wasn't exactly possible to make it to both for a good 30 minutes. The reason that's fairly important is because if there's two, maybe three, VIP's you want a chance for everyone to get in two test tracks ideally, while playing with volume etc.

The dichotomy of sound: Macro Expensive & Not:

Something became very clear listening to basically all of the big to mega buck systems. They basically have no interest in authenticity to the recording. That's right, you can't hear anything that indicates a recording process really at all. It doesn't matter what is being played. There's no reason to call them refined at all. My first thought is man... they're terrible. But clearly some people like them. They offer something very different. In general they make about everything you play on them sound somewhat like a live performance instead of a recording. Clearly that's what a lot of people like, or at least the sensation is alluring enough to captivate a lot of people. It's my new term, macro, to describe things that have this intention.

And for these macro setups anything that isn't largely a somewhat hot recording won't sound too good. Classical does ok. But for example in one that will remain nameless I had a file uploaded from my USB drive and people literally left the room and would come in and leave immediately. It sounded awful. It's a pretty good recording that I'm use to sounding beautiful. Guess what it was? Sufjan Stevens - Chicago, from the Illinois album. It's not a friendly song for stereos, that's a reason I use it. But it's delicate and gorgeous on a good stereo. Right about now you should be thinking, what's a good stereo if hundreds of thousands of dollars won't do it justice? Good question... That's why I'm using this macro definition that's more of an insult to what I consider good.

Now I want to make it clear that it's possible that in a different setting I may not have come to this conclusion of the dichotomy because it would be hard to conclude not because I think it would be untrue.

The Good and The Bad: some reviews. I'm leaving many rooms out because they are not that interesting to talk about; and they were probably not good if I left them out. I did miss a couple of rooms (very few).

ATC: I couldn't even stay in the room it was so harsh on the ears. Sad, I've always wanted to hear the speakers. People say they're very linear so that made me want to hear them.

Audio Alchemy & Endeavour : This was one of the best rooms at the show by far. With less money than the price of the speakers in the Thrax room, they were giving very close to performance that might have just been the difference in source for the most part. I think the depth was less but that might have been because the speakers were rather near the wall. Plus the electronics likely were not quiet as nice given some inherent limitations to small and affordable. However congratulations to Peter for such a cohesive budget system that really has the brawn of drive to actually get some solidity to the image. The speakers sound with bass is superb. Lief was there to talk with about them. He explained why they don't sound like your average ported speaker and he sure was right. They may not be super complicated speakers, appearing fairly normal, but their performance cannot be dismissed. It's no wonder why Albert swooped him up before anyone even knew about him!

Would I own the system personally? No. The speakers yes, but the electronics are a bit of personal taste. While they've got really good drive and less grain than almost every classD item at the show, they don't have timbre and the vibrato-tremelo I was looking for the whole show. It was better than just about every other room however, still. For someone that isn't in a position to make their own stuff, if their focus is on solidity, sound stage, and some authenticity of linearity then the Audio Alchemy is a little system that isn't touchable by much of anything in the low price range. However like I said it's personal taste because you can buy other types of sound for the same money.

Overall I'm so glad I checked it out, and I thought Lief was a great forum member to meet, and great asset to VSA.

Audio By Van Alstine: This was a Salk room as well.

My apologies for not introducing myself, but the music was loud so Frank couldn't really hear me talking, and I didn't know other members were present. Wayner is the only person that has a pic up on the forum, and I didn't see him.

Frank was nice enough to play a test track for me. The Super Songtowers were playing. The sound was near what I'd want, but not quite there. I firmly believe with some power conditioning it would've been good sound. The speakers sounded pretty capable, but overall it was a little thin and fatiguing in the room. The thing was I could hear a fair amount of what I'd want to hear trying to come through, but not quite making it. Frank will tell you power conditioning is BS, but particularly in this setting I believe it would have made the room comparable to some other notable good rooms.

Audio Kinesis: Duke's speakers and lots of Atma-Sphere gear.

I asked Duke to play a track from Karl Jenkin's version of Stabat Mater. (track 9). It filled the room. The swarm bass creates such an amazing immersion into any sort of chamber, organ, orchestral, etc, type music that's pretty damn awesome. On another day I even stopped by to hear something else and Brian described a track as having bass that comes up from the earth, and he was so right! Another wonderful display of the swarms ability to remove the silly notion of being able to describe bass from different speakers, orientation, whatever.. it just... is.

It was rather clear that Duke's design goals with the speakers were met. There was zero room treatment, and even less of a reason to have it in the room due to his intelligent design that eliminates early first reflection and over-dispersal of highs. Despite having a compression driver I didn't find the sound to be overwhelming from the tweeter at all. In fact my biggest critique of the room that I believe was the number one reason why anyone came in and went out pretty quickly was that there wasn't enough treble! Later I asked Duke about the resistors across binding posts on the back and he explained they allow some tuning, and he had tuned down the tweeter because he likes it that way.... I highly suggest not doing that for the next show. Throw it into the advertising pitch as a possibility.

Sadly while they said it would be fun to throw my amp into the system, it didn't materialize because it was the first day and everyone was tired (I was tired, but I'll overcome it to get exposure to another system with my amp). Perhaps another time, I think it could be a blast to hear what his speakers could do with it.

Blue Circle Audio: I've known about them for awhile, and I happen to know some problems they have with products. But at the market place they blew some serious smoke up someone's ass... someone I know, who is super smart with electronics. His only comment was, "I can't believe they can sell any of those things."

Border Patrol/Volti:

I didn't stick around here too long. The bass was some kind of super abnormally awkward plywood sheets slapping on the floor sound. Overall there wasn't really any redeeming point of interest. It wasn't a macro system, and wasn't refined. The only reason I'm mentioning it, is to contrast the other Volti room that was good.

Odyssey:

One of the best rooms. It was somewhat the opposite of the Audio Alchemy/Endeavour room. Klaus's stuff did better on vibrato/tremelo and timbre than nearly all the show. But it didn't have the solidity and drive. It was very low fatigue level. In fact it was one of the easiest rooms to listen to period. Klaus likes to tout how amazing his prices happen to be. Well, I've got to agree that for the price you can get a very enjoyable system to listen to, and without fatigue. You just get to enjoy the music! For a comparison another easy to listen to room was MSB, where even a cord might cost more than Klaus's entire system.

It isn't a linear system but it's not wildly off, it's no macro system. There is a little bit of refinement. I'd of course like it if you could get some drive, body, and solidity into it. However if you do that I can only see the price tag achieving those big numbers that so many people can't deal with. That sad he should probably raise his prices anyway; hint, they'd still be affordable. His whole system was under $10k and it was the most expensive he's ever brought to a show. He kills it for a tight budget.

MSB Technology:

Another top of the show. I guess I'm a fan of their DAC's now. However I think the amps have a little bit to be desire still, given that I think they're slightly weak handed. The thing was this room wasn't fatiguing, offered some decent refinement, imagining, medium solidity, decent vibrato/tremalo, etc... it was rather well rounded and livable. I'd probably change amps, but overall it might be the best room given total performance. What I think is crazy is the assumption it takes the money that was in the room to pull off the sound... it doesn't. But that's a long story and might involve DIY.

ENIGMAcoustics:

Clearly they're rather good speakers, maybe very good. The bass might have been a touch more than real (I think Srajan had the same thought). Do those things on top do much? Couldn't tell you. The enormous flat speaker wires made the monitors look like they grew dreadlocks. There was (another, oh god...) a drum track playing and it was too loud to stay for long. I don't even know what electronics were in the room. Fatigue factor despite volume wasn't high, however.

Meniscus:

Worst of entire show? Probably. GOOD LORD it hurt my ears in there. And it wasn't even loud. It's really too bad because I wanted to hear a Jeff Bagby design they had. Guys, really, get some not total shit electronics for the next show if you want to sell speakers.

MadiSound:

Very nice guys to talk to. They even had a little after hours type thing. Sadly they brought Linkwtiz speakers I don't give two nickles about. Sure they're good for little things that cost nothing but you have to bi-amp, and the miniDSP just isn't that great. In order to really make them good you'll dump too much money in and then hit the limitations of the super inefficient low power handling smaller driver. I'm sure they're someone's cup of tea because they do a list of impressive things for very little if you're miniDSP willing and buy rather cheap amps from china, in technical manners, but they don't have what I need to keep me listening.

Spatial/Anti-Cables/Red Dragon:

Another budget performance. They aren't as easy going as Klaus's setup, or as refined, but they were a surprise. The speakers are fairly revealing, fairly linear, and fairly friendly. Priced very low. The Red Dragon, with a bad name and image, uses the Pascal module. It's pretty cheap compared to other classD using a big dog module. And it's a bit smoother than other classD around at the show. I can see why it's a favorite of a number of people, over say ICE and Hypex; whom both didn't sound as smooth in any of the systems. Way tighter budget than even Klaus can do you? Consider this combo if you have the requirement of some easy listening and want to start out with a decently rounded setup.

Triode/Volti/LIO:

I already gave a larger review over in Pete's thread. Overall one of the top performance at the show. No fatigue, transparent volume device, nice imaging, etc. And Pete was a real nice guy who saw my CD and asked if I wanted to hear it.

Daedalus:

Lou was down in the market place with his new isolation feet, the DiD's. He gave me a demo by taking them out from underneath a DAC and headphone amp, and putting them back in. It was abundantly clear they changed the sound. Lou isn't blowing smoke when he says it. I'm so glad he gave me the demonstration. It's funny because I actually noticed DiD's all over the show. The systems with them did lean towards a bit more refinement.

Sadly I'm not a headphones guy. They increased clarity so much on the higher registers that I could hear so much more information that was useless while wearing headphones... all that information is ques for imaging and such on a normal stereo but there is no such thing with headphones! The voices and other parts of the demo songs he played were however improved an obvious noticeable amount. The Modwright gear I was not a fan of however. It might have been a refreshing amount linearity, but it wasn't easy to listen to. Very dry, low body, tone was thin.  Maybe it was just the headphone amp, I don't know. The real performers were the DiDs. Thanks to Lou for that, he's making the right choice to try and get the word out about them.

Shunyata/Exemplar :

Shunyata had their new mid-budget power conditioner along with some large single driver speaker in a room. It was medium quality overall sound. For the show it was a better room than most, but not in the top. Still we're talking better than a majority. Frankly the conditioner just wasn't enough. The speakers however seemed like they had some potential. They're the size of a fridge from the 60's however. It was refreshing just to hear something a bit different that wasn't too fatiguing to chase people out.

Tidal:

Almost a macro system. People were really into it. Personally I thought it sounded like it was on the verge of being a macro system, but some sort of weird gimmick gave it enough refinement that it almost sounded authentic. I didn't want to spend the time to dissect what the hell was giving it the bizarre sound that made it so different. Gimmicky really is the word I'd use. It sure seemed like perhaps the speakers had some potential because there was depth to the sound stage. The room was too small. It seemed to have a faked timbre, but vibrato/tremalo wasn't a wash like the full blood macro setups. It was fairly smooth. Overall I wouldn't ever pay the prices for something so... bizarre.

Harmon/Levinson:

The dealer was nice enough to play the big Harmon speakers with a test track. Unlike so many critics around here I thought the sound was decent. My biggest complaint is it sounded way too smoothed out. On another forum I'm being called a nut because I'm blaming it largely on the capacitors that I know smooth out sound in speakers, that each Harmon speaker has a few dozen of inside of them. They rob a live edge to sound, it's not that hard to hear. It's like a micro mute of super small information. I think Harmon might actually be pretty damn smart with their design but the crossovers need better parts. The electronics might need some power conditioning or something, however, because I expected a slightly better drive and more solid imaging. For the price? Well, no, I wouldn't. But I think there's more potential there that might be possible.

Egglestonworks/ModWright:

No one was in this room, for a good reason. How much money does it cost to sound that terrible? :duh:

Wilson/dCs/Doshi/Transparent:

Macro setup. Bad sound. Very 2D, very hallowed out sound. Not many people were in the room, nor stayed around. When I went up to the XLF speakers I put my hand against the lower bass cabinet and they certainly are very deadened. However the music coming from the upper drivers sounded as if the inside of cabinet was an echo chamber. This was a massive disappointment. A lot of people thought that. The only reason I'd want any of it would be so I could sell it. I have to imagine some of it could possibly be redeemed in another setup someway somehow.

D'Agostino/Wilson

Macro setup. Even with the Strombank I found it fatiguing. Less refinement than any other macro setup (which they don't go for anyways). Also more drums but this time they were showing off what 800wpc feels like to hear in a small room. That sucked. One person literally ran out of the room. Then they talked about how they could hurt people and that those in the front were bold to sit there. It was stupid. The sound was so macro, it was tone rich, but that was it.

However out of the room a D'Agostino something another was on display. The ring around the green meter moves as a volume control. Despite all the talk surrounding too-expensive of enclosures, I thought it was pretty damn sweet.

Woo Audio:

If you like headphones I thought the little AC powered cube, WA7, with the see-through top was a really good all in one for a price that isn't crazy.

Salk/Wells

The Exotica and active monitors both sounded good. This room was easy to listen to, had some refinement. I don't know about bass performance, but overall it was pleasant to be in at all times. I'm not a fan of DSD, so when the vinyl was playing it was best. The electronics did not provide enough solidity for my tastes, even while the vinyl was playing, but for someone into very easy listening they'd be a pretty happy customer as the setup was able to hang a nice lady singers voice mid air pretty well, while being rather seductive.

The active monitors do much lower and louder bass than you'd expect. However it was just middle of the road quality lower bass, but the fact they do it all raises their entertainment factor an awful lot. Their performance should make other active speaker people go back to the drawing board. They sounded better than the vast majority of rooms at the show.

Jim was very friendly, great guy.

Atma-Sphere/Classic Audio Loudspeakers:

Well, I was there early, and excited to hear what field coils sound like in those big ass boxes. Unfortunately in this case the setup was a macro setup that was heavily tilted to vocals. The sound was horrifying. It was like a god was trying to burst your ears by singing to you. They didn't do anything right. And the fellow, whom was nice, that was running it couldn't hear very well so I have to wonder if these types of speakers old guys like, because they can't hear well...

MBL:

I heard numerous people say it was the best the setup has ever sounded... What???? It was awful. It was really loud. It was a macro setup to the fullest. At night they played a Reel-to-Reel party and I'm not sure why given the fact the RTR didn't help what sounded like oodles of noise in the system, annoying loud volume, and lots of fatigue. The whole system has some sort of weird breathiness to it that prevents the images from being very solid like. The tone was meh, despite being a macro setup. The only thing it really did was making a partially large sound stage (where did the rest of it go?). But that was larger than life anyways so it was weird.

VSA/VAC:

I had a VIP session there. The speakers sound very capable. They had more depth to a sound stage than maybe everything at the show. However the VAC amps basically put the whole system into a macro category. It was as if the DAC and speakers wanted to show some refinement but there wasn't any. The drive and solidity of what the amps could do was not good. They were all tone, and it faded as the volume decreased. It wasn't what you'd call linear. This was a disappointment. It was so obvious to myself and others that the speakers wanted to shine, but the dumpy VAC gear wasn't going to let it happen. Not a good pairing... It would be nice to have go the Pass amps from upstairs down to the room and have a real audition.

Now someone from VSA might come in this thread and argue about the air conditioning. Well, sure, it was annoying. But I'm sorry, a really good amp that's linear and has good drive and solidity will shine straight through that noise. The music comes to you at any volume, and sound the same at all volumes. Maybe if it was some really cheap little system barely able to do anything would I think a little AC noise was a reason to excuse the sound, but not at this price level. I'm a snob, for anyone that doesn't know, and as much as I understand people must like the macro since they keep spending money on it, I don't; I think it's ridiculous. To me there's way too much fun in hearing all the details, having the linearity to really be intimate with the singer, appreciate the styles of mastering, on and on... There's so much more to music.

Magico:

Another one of my VIP sessions. Unfortunately the amps, CAT, where a macro nature. They had qualities that solid state could offer, and where on average a little smoother than other macro setups using solid state. But I could literally hear the speakers trying to convey more refinement than even the VSA speakers. It may or may not be excessive, I don't know. The system wasn't nearly linear enough to be fair to the Magico speaker's abilities. It sounded slightly better on Vinyl for some reason, over RTR, mostly because fatigue was lower. My suspicion is that the RTR would have sounded better if something in the chain it went through, or it, had some power conditioning.

It was another room where I wanted to go grab the Pass amps and bring down to try them with the speakers. Overall it was still somewhat nice to listen to. Fatigue however was too high for extended listening, and the tension between speakers clearly not meant for what the CAT's wanted to do, got old.

Thrax:

Hidden, you may have missed it... Very good room. Sadly fatigue was a little more than I think is acceptable, with a little hair of grain, which masked some tone. But the linearity of the room was awesome. Drive, solidity, imaging, was very good even from far away and off axis. It may have had the most potential of any room. I believe the amps far out classed MSB. The source was a TT, so I can't compare digital with MSB. I believe the speakers were better than MSB as well. They were so talented for being what appeared to be almost a simple old MTM with known SEAS drivers, and an unknown tweeter buried deep within the box with an interesting wave guide to let out the sound.

The room sounded like it could do macro if the recording was one that sounded that way, or a very refined album. It didn't seem to have an end to talent.

Vapor/Lampizator:

I think I spent the most time in here. There's a number of Lampizator guys! But Lampizator probably had the most DAC's at the show. Even the head-honcho Lukasz showed up.

The sound at first was a little bright, and yet still pretty good. Later in the evening a few of us played along with Ryan's scheme for trying to make a judgement call on a tweak that goes between the speaker and the speaker cable. We wrote down on cards if we thought we heard them a few times, and then talked about it (I assure you it was much more fun than I make it sound, laughing, jokes). Ryan thought they were probably foo-foo but ended up noticing the difference and preferring them. These devices seem to move the fatigue level back a notch and improve a lot of the overall refinement. You could simply pick out information better, that otherwise might be masked by a little bit of punch from a little bit of a piercing sound edge to the music. Just to say I suspect the hotel's power had something to do with the little bit of edge that was too much. The fellow who brought the amp said it's been considered easy going compared to a lot of other amps, and that very well could be the case in another setting.

We listened with my amplifier that I brought along. All fatigue/edge/brightness vanished; it's got serious filtration in it that's not hampering of capability. My amp took awhile to settle in, once it did I got a lot of what I was use to but not all of it. The imaging was "spot on" as someone mentioned. It did some nice depth work, tone, etc. But as the volume increased all of the attributes bloomed. That was different for me, because it's not the case in several other systems. The source, the Golden Gate Lampi, seems to change a bit as volume increases. I won't go into details but unfortunately I only got a few second of one of my test songs, PCM, not DSD, and it sounded better to me but really is too hard of call to make with only a few seconds. With the music from the server it was a little more clear how different recordings could be; the other amplifier added a bit of thrill to everything so even some of the lower quality tracks on the server were a bit funner with it.

My personal feelings about the Lampizator DAC is that DSD is much too soft for me, and I prefer a much more linear DAC in general. It seems that Lampizator DAC's are a great choice for easy listening because they're able to steer an entire system towards a pleasant sound; but it's too easy for me in combination with low fatigue gear. The sound of the Lampi also seemed to improve some as volume climbed, which is why I prefer a more linear DAC/volume control since low level sometimes is the right level for me. Perhaps the non-volume controlled version would change my mind. I don't know what the Lampi uses for volume, that might clue me in. And I'm not sure what the output impedance was but it could have been slightly high for my amp.

Compared to other DSD at the show, the Lampizator seemed to make it much smoother by comparison - this was true in other rooms as well. It has a very delicate touch that anyone - even me who's not into DSD - can appreciate. That touch is revealing and gives a soothing attack and decay. It's no mystery why Lampizator has become such a success. While I say DSD is too soft, the reality is that even while that's true so many other DSD DAC setups were soft and fatiguing at the same time. And for my personal tastes, even while the Lampi could do 3D depth, I needed a more solid image that I suspect PCM may do with it.

At some point in the future I really would like to get to evaluate some Vapor speakers with a different DAC, and my amplifier. What I heard was very promising. The speakers seemed very willing to produce very different sounding music and make it clear just how different music can be in recording and mastering. When you are off-axis to them they don't sound like an echo chamber like the XLF's did. I think Ryan's work at shape and special dampening techniques really pay off because the music doesn't get that "out of a box" sound to it as you move to a position to really only hear one channel directly. I'm so curious what the Nimbus and Aurora sound like now, after being convinced that the laminated plywood with his dampening treatment is a win. Perhaps at the same time I'll get a better feel for bass response if it's with a stiffer sounding DAC. As is it sounded very well blended into the music so it wasn't sticking out like a sore note, but I couldn't tell about impact ability from the tracks we played.

To sum it up about the speakers themselves, they seem multi-talented. The drivers integrate very well together, the sound of them all is very cohesive. They weren't giving me the slam-bam session I found all over, but showing me a lot more about the music down to the recording and mastering process. That's always a goal of achievement for any stereo I'd want to hear.

A big Thank You to Ryan and the Lampizator guys for the entertainment and chance to hear a little bit of what Ryan and Wayne heard during the Perfect Storm review with my amp.

*On a funny note, it seems like they all have Uber's from Dave. You guys should bring one to shows, it would be good for the room! (baring SMPS based electronics in the setup) 

Salk/Wells Mini:

The 3K speakers were in here. Honestly I think they could be better than Supercharged SongTowers. The veneer is beautiful as always with Jim's stuff. Better yet the drivers sound so integrated among each-other. That's why I think they might be his best budget speaker fairly easily. It's a winner of a speaker.

The room however suffered from some loss of focus with imaging. It was medium quality for the playback. But that doesn't mean I couldn't hear things I liked more than the AVA/Salk room; because I did.

Meeting People:

I met lots of people while I was there. Not one meeting was a sour one. The funniest thing is having a generic idea of what everyone would look like, and how wrong you can be!

Did you know Jeff Rowland is near 7ft tall?

Duke LaJune is a very nice guy to talk to, and better looking than that hermit photo he uses for his avatar.

Ric Schultz has a double, as in literally there's another guy named Ric Schultz with the same spelling. And they've met.

Doug Schroeder is tall, and was a good guy to converse with. He was pretty busy running room to room trying to get notes down about his test tracks.

Lars Kristensen from Raidho is really funny because he hates DSD. He gave a little lecture on it to some guy trying to get a track played from his USB drive. Luckily I got to stop it by holding up a CD and requesting a track. But he's also very informative and talked a lot about his speakers, the stands, manufacturing, markets, etc. (couldn't tell how good the speakers were, maybe wonderful, but the amp was close to tone dead and not too smooth)

Alon Wolf didn't mind answering my question about Magico's unique crossover at all.

I met numerous other AC members, all were friendly and happy to meet other AC'ers. Too bad I didn't get name tags ready. Next show :wink:

Back To Sound, of The Show:

Why was it so bad everywhere? The number one thing I can think of is the quality of power. The hotel is likely a noisy environment with lots of Wifi, ice makers, etc, to begin with. Then I have to ask, is that an excuse? Should the quality of the power be the one factor that entirely makes or breaks a stereo? Well, several rooms proved that it doesn't have to be. And some even had conditioning of sorts and it didn't do a lot. So I guess I don't have an answer... is it possible most gear isn't that great? or that the only way to achieve "greatness" is to make a macro style? BTW I thought the macro styles sounded laden with noise (in the electronics, not artifacts).

I actually feel bad for most of the speaker makers. So many of them probably make at least decent speaker, but how would you know if you can't sit in front of it long enough to decide, let alone assess if its good assuming it's matched with the correct electronics. Personally I've never experienced a speaker so horrific that it was painful to listen to when hooked up to a good stereo, so I wonder if that was the case with any at the show? Maybe the field coil setups in Classic's room.

So, am I crazy? I just browsed through Stereophile's different coverage days where they loved so many rooms I thought were flat out awful... That sentiment sums up everything pretty well. Maybe I just don't understand the hobby.






Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Russell Dawkins on 20 Apr 2016, 06:50 am
Refreshingly candid and detailed. Thanks for your perspective and effort in laying this out for us.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: G Georgopoulos on 20 Apr 2016, 07:05 am
well,jeremy,good on you mate!,you have put everyone on notice!,good is not good enough!... :thumb:
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dB Cooper on 20 Apr 2016, 01:15 pm
My observation of show systems (aside from cost that is often beyond all reason) is that there seem to be an ever-increasing number of "one-trick-pony" systems: Systems that do one thing really, really well- and everything else somewhere from 'meh' to horribly- but the designer is so into some one particular aspect of reproduction that they toss out everything else to get that one thing right. And it seems (to me anyway) that the more costly the system is, the more likely it is to have this problem. My thing when I walk into a room is: Is my attention drawn to the music, or is it drawn to the system? If the latter, I wouldn't be happy with it for long, no matter how well it did one particular thing. It may 'grab' you short term, like the system they played just a wee bit louder back in the days when there were audio stores, but eventually you'll tire of it. And maybe this is why experiences of different systems by different listeners vary so wildly- we all 'hear' differently so we agree/disagree with the 'presentation'- but if there were even two systems that were 'perfect', by definition they'd have to sound the same, right?

The thing that has surprised me at recent shows is, how often there is an inverse relationship between the cost of a system and what I would personally consider (for want of a better word) as 'musicality'. For instance (and this is totally personal taste/YMMV territory), the big Legacy multi driver systems have always been 'hear the system' experiences for me, leaving me cold, whereas the simple two-ways in the Audio Note UK room 'disappear' for me and draw me right in- to the music. I cheerfully admit that for someone else, it may be the exact opposite.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jriggy on 20 Apr 2016, 01:57 pm
Pardon my opinion/question here but Im wondering why you put this post in the Equipment reviews circle and not the AXPONA 2016 show report thread...
I see that you are giving an opinion/analysis of compiled gear, but it is in show conditions, generally where rooms are evaluated somewhat differently than reviewing a piece of gear or few... I see that it somewhat fits here but I see it as more of a show report than an equipment review. It will probably not be seen/read as much than if it was in the AXPONA thread (maybe thats your reasoning :wink:).
Just a thought but thanks for the good read.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: GentleBender on 20 Apr 2016, 02:28 pm
Thanks for your candid and honest opinion. I honestly have been enjoying Vapor's Auroras with Odyssey's Cyclops/Suspiro phono stage. I can sit/lay anywhere in the small room and still enjoy great sound. No longer have to deal with a small "sweet spot" that disappears if you turn your head.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 20 Apr 2016, 03:08 pm
So this was my first time at Axpona...
Egglestonworks/ModWright:

No one was in this room, for a good reason. How much money does it cost to sound that terrible? :duh:

...

I am interested in knowing more about this room please.

Thanks,
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 20 Apr 2016, 03:49 pm
Pardon my opinion/question here but Im wondering why you put this post in the Equipment reviews circle and not the AXPONA 2016 show report thread...
I see that you are giving an opinion/analysis of compiled gear, but it is in show conditions, generally where rooms are evaluated somewhat differently than reviewing a piece of gear or few... I see that it somewhat fits here but I see it as more of a show report than an equipment review. It will probably not be seen/read as much than if it was in the AXPONA thread (maybe thats your reasoning :wink:).
Just a thought but thanks for the good read.

I wanted a separate thread. And I can't start one in the "shows" section (only admins can start a thread it appears). I put a lot of time into that... so I'm a little sour it was merged.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dminches on 20 Apr 2016, 03:52 pm
I thought both the Wilson/Doshi and Egglestonworks/Modwright rooms sounded excellent.  2 of the best of the show.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: gnostalgick on 20 Apr 2016, 04:14 pm
   Thanks for the great write up Folsom.  I agree with you on the preponderance of 'macro' systems; my girlfriend got sick of them about two hours in.  Interestingly, we found the smaller MBLs in the Jolida room to sound much better/more natural/less fatiguing than the big set up.  Harbeth/LIO was also really easy to listen to.  Did anyone else hear the Ilies panel/woofer set up?  We were impressed but I'm looking for a second opinion.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 20 Apr 2016, 04:29 pm
I am interested in knowing more about this room please.

Thanks,

Here's the setup. (http://www.stereophile.com/content/axpona-jasons-friday-finish#5cK8rEDoq6BAjz4d.97)

It hurt my ears. It was a very high fatigue level, too much to stand. Stereophile is right that it wasn't too transparent. It simply wasn't offering anything at the time that would make me stay. I have no doubt that some parts of it could be good, maybe great, but I wouldn't stay to find out.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Art_Chicago on 20 Apr 2016, 04:31 pm
   Thanks for the great write up Folsom.  I agree with you on the preponderance of 'macro' systems; my girlfriend got sick of them about two hours in.  Interestingly, we found the smaller MBLs in the Jolida room to sound much better/more natural/less fatiguing than the big set up.  Harbeth/LIO was also really easy to listen to.  Did anyone else hear the Ilies panel/woofer set up?  We were impressed but I'm looking for a second opinion.

well I find folsom's review rather disagreeable, because I like majority of the rooms I visited, and it was the best show sound-wise out of 3 Axponas I attended.   It might be a rare case when I agree with Stereophile's assessment.  :D
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dminches on 20 Apr 2016, 04:33 pm
Art, I agree with you.  I thought there were more good sounding rooms this year than in any of the past 3.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Vinnie R. on 20 Apr 2016, 04:33 pm
All,

I just want to give a big 'thank you' to everyone who visited either room 336 (Vinnie Rossi LIO / Harbeth) or room 314 (VR LIO / Volti / Triode Wire Labs) and posting your impressions.  We really appreciate it and hope you all have a fun show! 

Newport Beach, CA is next for us for us - please bring music that YOU enjoy (USB stick, CD, LP) and are familiar with to test/demo systems.  I wish more attendees brought some demo tracks that they love to the room.  Doesn't matter the type of music as long as you know it well and enjoy it.  If others don't - no problem.  They'll get a turn next if they bring something to play.

As a (small) exhibitor, these shows are expensive! - so I want to know what can be done better to make the best showing that I can when you come to our room.  Otherwise, it is a waste for us AND you.  I appreciate all the feedback. 

Thanks again!

Vinnie
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dminches on 20 Apr 2016, 04:37 pm
Vinnie, both your rooms sounded excellent.  Congrats on LIO.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Don_S on 20 Apr 2016, 04:45 pm
All,

I just want to give a big 'thank you' to everyone who visited either room 336 (Vinnie Rossi LIO / Harbeth) or room 314 (VR LIO / Volti / Triode Wire Labs) and posting your impressions.  We really appreciate it and hope you all have a fun show! 

Newport Beach, CA is next for us for us - please bring music that YOU enjoy (USB stick, CD, LP) and are familiar with to test/demo systems.  I wish more attendees brought some demo tracks that they love to the room.  Doesn't matter the type of music as long as you know it well and enjoy it.  If others don't - no problem.  They'll get a turn next if they bring something to play.

As a (small) exhibitor, these shows are expensive! - so I want to know what can be done better to make the best showing that I can when you come to our room.  Otherwise, it is a waste for us AND you.  I appreciate all the feedback. 

Thanks again!

Vinnie

Vinnie,

You are already well down the right path encouraging visitors to play their own demo tracks.  It is discouraging how many manufacturers have gone to music servers they barely understand and don't know how to support a USB stick. Fewer and fewer are supporting CDs.  If I can't play familiar music then I can't evaluate a room. Especially considering some of the poor demo choices vendors make.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 20 Apr 2016, 04:57 pm

As a (small) exhibitor, these shows are expensive! - so I want to know what can be done better to make the best showing that I can when you come to our room.  Otherwise, it is a waste for us AND you.  I appreciate all the feedback. 

Thanks again!

Vinnie

A display of modules would have been really cool. The sound was good so that's not a problem. Perhaps a pairing with some budget speakers would be nice, or maybe switch back and forth between them for fun. Surely people save money by going with the LIO the negates a big amount of other boxes, cords, rack size, etc, etc... so why not show them just how good it can be with some speakers under $10k, maybe even $5k.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Hugh on 20 Apr 2016, 05:08 pm
Here's the setup. (http://www.stereophile.com/content/axpona-jasons-friday-finish#5cK8rEDoq6BAjz4d.97)

It hurt my ears. It was a very high fatigue level, too much to stand. Stereophile is right that it wasn't too transparent. It simply wasn't offering anything at the time that would make me stay. I have no doubt that some parts of it could be good, maybe great, but I wouldn't stay to find out.

Thanks.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 20 Apr 2016, 05:08 pm
As mentioned earlier this was also my first show. While I didn't even get close to hear all of the rooms, my expectations is that every system at the minimum would sound good. Many did sound really good and only a few sounded bad. However, I'm with Folsom on this one . When hearing systems costing that much, I was expecting the system not only sound good but really be in the best I have ever heard category. There were only a few rooms that I had the feeling of wow I never want to leave type of feeling. But again, our preferences are all different so it's great that there are so many options out there for all of us.

Klaus of Odyssey put it nicely, figure out where your preferences fall on the spectrum between analytical/detailed vs emotional. Once you figure that out, just ignore the type you don't like. Wouldn't it be nice if each room had a sign on the door clearly saying what sound they are aiming for?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Vinnie R. on 20 Apr 2016, 05:15 pm
Guys,

Thanks for your feedback! 

Quote
A display of modules would have been really cool. The sound was good so that's not a problem. Perhaps a pairing with some budget speakers would be nice, or maybe switch back and forth between them for fun. Surely people save money by going with the LIO the negates a big amount of other boxes, cords, rack size, etc, etc... so why not show them just how good it can be with some speakers under $10k, maybe even $5k.

Hi Folsom,

In room 336, we were switching between 3 different Harbeth models.  The approx. prices were:

40.2's - $15k
SHL5_plus - $7k
P3ESR - $2100

Speaking of budget speakers - after hours we ran TomS's LIO to the Spatial M3 Turbo open baffle speakers.  $2600.  Really?
I asked Clayton again, and he said yes.  Wow!    BIG sound at a killer price!

Thanks again for listening, and all your suggestions - we'll try to make it better next time!  :thumb:

Vinnie
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 20 Apr 2016, 05:19 pm
Oops, I guess I missed the two smaller speakers.

The Spatials are a surprise. I've heard several things like them before but they got it right this time.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Vinnie R. on 20 Apr 2016, 05:29 pm
duplicate post - sorry
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Vinnie R. on 20 Apr 2016, 05:29 pm

If Klaus is reading this - sorry I got too tied up in my room and couldn't find yours and say hi.  I love visiting his room for a good listen, and seeing his enthusiasm.  And I save money because his big bear hug saves me a trip to the chiropractor to fix my back - just sayin'  :thumb:

Vinnie
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jhm731 on 20 Apr 2016, 06:21 pm
TAS Show Report:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/steven-stones-2016-axpona-show-report/
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: dminches on 20 Apr 2016, 06:45 pm
TAS Show Report:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/steven-stones-2016-axpona-show-report/

Stone and I must have similar ears since I agree with his "best of" selections.

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: reillyzing on 20 Apr 2016, 07:04 pm
Folsom, in the Odyssey room, was it the Kismet Liquid speakers, Candela preamp and Khartago monos that you heard? Thanks.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Big Red Machine on 20 Apr 2016, 07:08 pm
If Klaus is reading this - sorry I got too tied up in my room and couldn't find yours and say hi.  I love visiting his room for a good listen, and seeing his enthusiasm.  And I save money because his big bear hug saves me a trip to the chiropractor to fix my back - just sayin'  :thumb:

Vinnie

Roger that
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141621)
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 20 Apr 2016, 07:15 pm
Folsom, in the Odyssey room, was it the Kismet Liquid speakers, Candela preamp and Khartago monos that you heard? Thanks.

I'd verify with Klaus what was uesd. They had dressed up shiny face-plates so they were not as familiar as the pics on his site.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: TomS on 20 Apr 2016, 07:21 pm
Folsom, in the Odyssey room, was it the Kismet Liquid speakers, Candela preamp and Khartago monos that you heard? Thanks.
He was using the Kismet speakers, not the Liquids when I was there Friday, as they were unfortunately damaged in transit.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: reillyzing on 20 Apr 2016, 07:24 pm
He was using the Kismet speakers, not the Liquids when I was there Friday, as they were unfortunately damaged in transit.
Oh geez, what a drag to deal with right before a show..Thanks.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: jtwrace on 20 Apr 2016, 07:25 pm
Speaking of budget speakers - after hours we ran TomS's LIO to the Spatial M3 Turbo open baffle speakers.  $2600.  Really?
I asked Clayton again, and he said yes.  Wow!    BIG sound at a killer price!
Vinnie
You guys need to team up for a room.   :thumb:
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: JLM on 20 Apr 2016, 09:47 pm
How many of you did I walk past?  The more I read this thread the more I wish folks here would post selfies or the registration desk would issue name badges.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 21 Apr 2016, 05:01 am
Promised some pictures:

This is how excited Duke gets when asked to talk about his swarm concept
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141656)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141655)

Klaus practicing blowing thank you kisses for all the awards he will win:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141657)

Klaus politely listen to a random question if he thought a competing amp would be a good match with B&W speakers. BTW: Note all the room treatment.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141658)

Andrew Jones holding a lecture on building good & cheap speakers. His room almost looked more like a lecture hall with 3 rows of chairs in a small room. It was full most of the time.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141663)

Vinnie Rossi showing off his "spinning vinyl on the finger" skills:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141664)

Triode Pete doing some stretching to get ready to dance to Uptown Funk. BTW: What are those two things hidden on the bottom shelf?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141665)

As you can see, it was a lot of fun at Axpona!
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 21 Apr 2016, 05:13 am
MBL - the best looking room (but far from best sounding). I have to admit that the dark room with the light on the radial-strahler and all those massive amps, not to mentioned the sub towers, looked really great. One visitor had a 3-5 year old girl with her to the room. It took about 2 min until the girl was crying and had to leave - likely due to the loud and fatiguing volume. I lasted about 3 min. It sounded OK, but too fatiguing for my ears and I couldn't really hear a good stereo image

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141666)

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Triode Pete on 21 Apr 2016, 01:52 pm
Promised some pictures:



Triode Pete doing some stretching to get ready to dance to Uptown Funk. BTW: What are those two things hidden on the bottom shelf?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=141665)

As you can see, it was a lot of fun at Axpona!

On the bottom LHS was the LIO external power supply used for heating the 300B cathodes, and Vinnie is also using it to charge the ultracaps in the LIO (replaces the stock power adapter as well).  On the bottom RHS was the CD transport with Vinnie's battery power supply under it... Hence, why I was on knee loading "stretching" to load the CD...

Cheers,
Pete
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Folsom on 21 Apr 2016, 03:21 pm
Half a million to make kids cry... Great advertising pitch.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 21 Apr 2016, 03:37 pm
Pete - calling it stretching makes it a much better story 8)
Anyways, It was really nice to meet you. The room was great and I really liked that you threw in all kind of music to give us a good feel for the system. It didn't matter what you played, it still sounded good. Even when you cranked it up loud, still sounded just as good with no fatiguing issue. Lots of emotion in this system. Thank you for a great show! Next time I need to make sure to stay longer.

I really would have liked to hear Vinnie's  setup with the spatials as they tried in the after hours. Consider this my first lobbying attempt to try to get invited to the after party next year  :D
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Vinnie R. on 21 Apr 2016, 03:41 pm

I really would have liked to hear Vinnie's  setup with the spatials as they tried in the after hours. Consider this my first lobbying attempt to try to get invited to the after party next year  :D

Hi Odal3,

You got it!  I really want to hear those Spatials with the LIO DHT PRE in the mix, and if we're talking next year, there will be
other surprises by then!  :eyebrows:

Thanks again for visiting / listening - and yes, Pete has a nice mix of music to keep it fun as always!

Vinnie
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Triode Pete on 21 Apr 2016, 04:37 pm
Pete - calling it stretching makes it a much better story 8)
Anyways, It was really nice to meet you. The room was great and I really liked that you threw in all kind of music to give us a good feel for the system. It didn't matter what you played, it still sounded good. Even when you cranked it up loud, still sounded just as good with no fatiguing issue. Lots of emotion in this system. Thank you for a great show! Next time I need to make sure to stay longer.


Hey Odal3,
Edited as per your suggestion!!! Thanks!

It was a pleasure to meet you as well!  :thumb: I'm glad you enjoyed the tunes!

Cheers,
Pete
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: md92468 on 21 Apr 2016, 05:26 pm
Speaking of budget speakers - after hours we ran TomS's LIO to the Spatial M3 Turbo open baffle speakers.  $2600.  Really?
I asked Clayton again, and he said yes.  Wow!    BIG sound at a killer price!

Believe it or not, Vinnie, the M4s (little brother to the M3s) are $1000 less and give you quite a bit of the same sound signature and performance...I've had the M4 Turbo Ss for a few weeks now, and they just keep getting better and better. it's a great time to be an audiophile on a budget.

Very glad the LIO is doing well for you...when we met and spoke at RMAF in 2014 you had a display prototype to tease us, but we didn't get to hear it (although I did get a really cool t-shirt out of the deal ;). As an early Red Wine customer, I can only imagine how great it sounds with the M3/4...hope to find out one day.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Vinnie R. on 21 Apr 2016, 07:26 pm
Believe it or not, Vinnie, the M4s (little brother to the M3s) are $1000 less and give you quite a bit of the same sound signature and performance...I've had the M4 Turbo Ss for a few weeks now, and they just keep getting better and better. it's a great time to be an audiophile on a budget.

Very glad the LIO is doing well for you...when we met and spoke at RMAF in 2014 you had a display prototype to tease us, but we didn't get to hear it (although I did get a really cool t-shirt out of the deal ;). As an early Red Wine customer, I can only imagine how great it sounds with the M3/4...hope to find out one day.

Hi md92468,

Thank you - and the M4's sound like a steal!

Hope you can make it to the Newport Beach, CA show or the RMAF this year!

Vinnie

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 22 Apr 2016, 02:54 am
If you're not bored of my biased ramblings yet, here is some more:

Odyssey

My expectations for the Odyssey room was sky high before the show so I wanted to make sure to get there early in the day to allow a long listen.

Room was treated on corners and sides plus cloth hanging down over equipment table. While some rooms where packed with chairs, this room only had 3 chairs. One middle front and 2 right behind - I guess to really make sure it was set up for the best possible sound...and it surely was nice.  I asked to hear something crazy good when I had the sweet spot, and he put on a depressing song I had never heard before, and WOW! We're now getting into the goose bump category. They almost had to push me out of the chair since I didn't want to leave. Yes, it was that good. I'm not that good explaining sound, so I will shamelessly steal this from Hometheatershack: "Klaus also knows how to set up a room at an audio show. This year he gave us the most expansive soundstage, absolutely wall-bursting, with precise imaging, a room I just wanted to stay in and have fun with. Odyssey Audio's room this year is definitely THE SOUNDSTAGE AND IMAGING ROOM OF THE YEAR for AXPONA 2016." I couldn't agree more. Definitely one of the best room of the show.

(BTW: They have many nice photos from a lot of rooms: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/gtg-clubs-associations-audio-fests/147546-audio-expo-north-america-axpona-2016-show-report-2.html#post1435010)

Shortly after we left the Odyssey room, we ventured over to hear the Wilson Audio Alexx room. It just happened that they played the same  song we had just heard in the Odyssey room (Riders on the storm). My friend and I just looked at each other and the magic we had just experienced over at the Odyssey room, where nowhere to be found.
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: Odal3 on 22 Apr 2016, 03:42 am
Vapor

The Vapor room was another room I had looked forward to. I really really wanted to hear one of their big speakers, but the room was probably too small for them so I hope I will get another chance soon.

Anyways, what was presented was very good too. The cabinets are absolutely amazing. The pictures posted online doesn't do them justice. You have to see them in person. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a good listen. There was a couple in the room at the same time as us, and it looked like they were doing the final listen before making a purchase decision. I didn't want to disturb too much but after listening to only strings for a very long time and when they politely asked to repeat the violin intro for the 2nd or 3rd time, we were running out of time since it was late Sunday afternoon and had to move on. So I'm probably the only one who can say that I have only heard vapor speakers playing 200-250hz and higher and have no idea how their famous low-end sounds.

Next time, this will be the first room I will go to.

Anyone know when and where the bigger master pieces will be on display?
Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: klaus@odyssey on 22 Apr 2016, 04:17 am
Folsom, Odal et al...thanks a mill guys...blush...

Anyway, my thoughts and 6 cents:

1.  The show itself was stellar, one of the best in the last years...sound was more than good, (somehow hit the wow setup for myself), and having had the Liquids go down  was a blessing in disguise(and I had them in my trailer, driving the 3 hours myself, unpacking them myself, setting them up myself...I'm an idiot), as the Kismets just gelled with the room...and busyyyyyyy...Sunday was the only day where the room wasn't full pretty much all day.  Incredible traffic.

2.  It was also spectacularly successful for us...and thanks to all of our existing and new customers who again will make my life work-centric in the next months...guys, I've got to take my baby out more than the paltry 400 miles from last year.......aaaaaargh.

3. Nitty gritty for this thread:  Folsom did an absolutely fantastic and necessary job in defining ahead of write ups as to his bias, taste, and definitions....guys, I don't want to be a dick,  but after each and every single show I read hundreds of comments, how you like this or how that room was insufficient, etc....meaningless...nice that you have this opinion carved out for yourself in what is also a quite meaningless, usually a minute or two exposure to certain gear, exposure of equipment x, y/ z....of course you want to opine on what you heard...it's our hobby, and dammit, communication is fun,  but if you take this seriously, and you have a best 5 or top ten list etc., then at least be upfront about your preferences and / or honest about listening to only a fraction on what people spent a lot of money, time, work, and (hopefully) love to set up.......just saying.....

4.  Back to Folsom....I'm completely with you as to what you're into...quick explanation on my side, and, of course just for Odyssey gear as I can't speak for others....with the biasing of the amps, and the on-axis changes of the speakers in a true nearfield situation like Axpona, I'm actually able to change the character somewhat, and within reason.....I'm preaching especially the biasing part for decades, and I'm still amazed how many completely ignorant manufacturer there are.....so, I completely, 100 % agree with HTshack, and am grateful they picked up upon this...focused straight as an arrow on tone, huge and layered 3 d staging, and goosebumps....on the other hand, more detailed outlines and "drive" would have been easily achievable,  but that's not what I was after, as I wanted to show that this 3D presentation is indeed possible in a shitty hotel room....

5. There is still wayyyy too much snobbism in this hobby....it's a hobby industry, and while music and good performances can lift one's mood and soul, it's not world peace or a cure for cancer...be proud, but don't be arrogant.....

6. Actually, the room only had 2 chairs...the 3rd was for myself, in my little corner, but some  always, always, always stole it every time I got up to change a record......bastards

7.  The VPI Avenger is nice, nice, nice

8 And yes,  papa bear has to admit,  he's a hugger.....and Vinnie, I'll get you in Newport...a promise and a threat, heheheheheheee

9. Is this freaking real ????  All our icons gone in the last year or two, and now Prince ???  OK, guys in their 70's and 80's,  understood, but this stream of musical giants of all ages is getting too much.....


Rock on,

Klaus

Title: Re: AXPONA 2016 April 15-17
Post by: mirekti on 5 May 2016, 01:20 am
...and if we're talking next year, there will be
other surprises by then!  :eyebrows:

Will you post somewhere what else is in the pipeline or it is to early to say?