[Hobbsmeerkat]

I finally got the chance to compare my NX Studios to Dannys original units, and also completed my "cheap-o" crossovers to test as well.



Gear:
Source: Surface Pro 3
DAC: Grace Designs 02+SDAC
Pre: Tsakiridis Alexander tube preamp
Amp: GR Research GK-10 chip amp.
Subs: GR Research Dual 8" U-frame
Cables: GR B24 & 16-strand DIY speaker cables Electra interconnects.

Stock Crossover

Crossover cost: Roughly $360

Danny's Studio are where this journey started for me.
Easiest way I can describe them is "real" & "tangible." There is lost of detail and clarity to be found at every level, the upper mids and treble are where they really shine, without ever being hard or fatiguing. They present the music for what it is, and it won't lie to you if you feed it compressed or lower quality recordings.
Imaging is razor sharp and its easy to point out instruments within the soundstage. Layering and separation are locked in.

My only "gripe" is that vocals can occasionally sound "gritty" like a photograph with some film grain, and that they are not very forgiving to poor quality recordings..


"Overkill" Crossover:



Crossover cost: Roughly $1100 (may be more/less depending on sales)

Miflex Copper capacitors and bypass caps, Path Audio resistors, foil inductors. These things are loaded with copper.

The best way I can describe these is "fluid." They offer most of the same characteristics of the stock crossover, but they bring a smoother, richer, more relaxed tone, without losing any of the clarity or detail.
Everything just seems to envelope you, and it's really easy to get lost in the music, everything just has a relaxing tone that even "hot" recordings take on a more balanced tone.

Everything feels less "solid" or "tangible" but it tends to take on a more honey-like fluidity. It just pulls you in and keeps you there.
They are also a lot more forgiving with poor-quality recordings, but will definitely reward you with good quality recordings, especially those with lots of spaciousness and depth in the soundstage.

These were everything I wanted from them. I wouldn't recommend going as far as I did, but for me it was well worth the effort.

"Cheap-o" crossover



Crossover cost: ~$55 (could have been <$35 had parts availability been better)

These were the cheapest parts available on Parts-Express in the values I needed. 22 gauge wire, steel banana plugs, sand-caste resistors, electrolytic caps in the woofer circuit.
A fairly typical setup for most production speakers. (Though they're likely paying $10-15 for parts even lower quality parts)

They measure within 1/5db of the "overkill" crossovers, but they cannot compare to the other crossovers
These suck.. 

Best word I can use is "blurry"...
They have no issues hitting the primary notes, but when it come to anything not front and center, it rapidly looses focus.

In one of my reference tracks, there's a mandolin layered into the soundstage, but on these there's just a vague sound, you almost can't tell it's even there.

Midrange sounds congested & dull.
Bass is sometimes lacking and generally muddy, missing a lot of the texture and tone I know these woofers are capable of.
They make these speakers fall flat on their face and really hold them back.

A fun experiment, but I wouldn't recommend it.

[NoahH]

I love this shootout. Thanks for conducting and posting.

[Tyson]

Yep, pretty much aligns to to my own experiences.

[nlitworld]

I was waiting to hear your comparison with your fuel tanker caps. Any recommendations for an upper end crossover between the stock and the rediculous monstrosity you built? Only asking since my kit should be mailing out any time so there is still time for parts shopping before Christmas 

[Tyson]

Vcap ODAMs are a nice mid-cost option and they are very good indeed.

[mkrawcz]

Vcap ODAMs bypassed with Duelund JDM Silver foil bypass caps on the tweeter of the NX-Studios is absolutely sublime.

[Groundzero]

Will GR ever offer the super premium crossover components directly?

[RonP]

"Cheap-o" crossover



Crossover cost: ~$55 (could have been <$35 had parts availability been better)

oh god that wiring!  I think I picked up something similar at home depot once. 

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Will GR ever offer the super premium crossover components directly?

Not likely, not only are they costly, but they are also not easy to maintain stock, and due to their cost, it's also not likely we'll sell too many. For most of our speakers, they would need to remain external, which is fine for the NX-Otica/Treme but not really ideal for any of our other kits.

It's easier to just call or email us ahead of time for which components you plan to source yourself.

oh god that wiring!  I think I picked up something similar at home depot once. 

Yeah just it's some super-cheap RCA branded 22gauge wire. I have to be careful not to rip the cables off of the terminals cuz, man it's fragile at times..

[Chops]

How can this be a valid comparison?

One baffle is taller than the other (most likely one cabinet is larger than the other as well), the wave guide around one tweeter is a different shape than the other wave guide, not to mention that one wave guide is about an inch or more down on the baffle whereas the other is right at the very top edge of the other baffle.

All of those factors alone are going to drastically alter the sound of each speaker, masking whatever changes the different crossovers make.

[wgraft5]

Thankyou Hobbs.

This is a hard time of year to be saving for the driver kit

That pic show's the difference between the older NX Studio MKI and the newer MKII versions.
I was wondering what the difference is other than height of the drivers?

I probably will upgrade to mostly copper in the end.

Again, thanks Hobbs

[Hobbsmeerkat]

How can this be a valid comparison?

One baffle is taller than the other (most likely one cabinet is larger than the other as well), the wave guide around one tweeter is a different shape than the other wave guide, not to mention that one wave guide is about an inch or more down on the baffle whereas the other is right at the very top edge of the other baffle.

All of those factors alone are going to drastically alter the sound of each speaker, masking whatever changes the different crossovers make.

It's certainly not a perfect comparison. Ideally, I would need to build out a "stock" crossover and then burn them in for 500+ hours for everything to be equal, but I doubt that the small differences in the shape are going to be that drastic in influencing their overall sound, all else being equal.

Here are some pictures of them I took previously before they were finished.





The 2nd picture is somewhat deceiving, the flat-packs are 3/4" deeper than the original cabinets.
Mine also doesn't have an internal crossover which frees up a small amount of airspace as well.

You would have to ask Jay about the differences in the cabinet design/height vs the original cabinets.
I know newer runs since my cabinet are more similar to the older design, moving the tweeter and woofer back towards the top.

That said, I'm just reporting the differences I hear between them. It's not really intended to be scientific comparison.
If I wanted to be scientific, I'd also have controlled for those other variables, and included measurements with each crossover etc.

Maybe in the future I'll look into making a stock crossover and doing proper comparisons, measurements, etc, and have Ron make some recordings with each of the crossovers. We'll see.

Thankyou Hobbs.

This is a hard time of year to be saving for the driver kit

That pic show's the difference between the older NX Studio MKI and the newer MKII versions.
I was wondering what the difference is other than height of the drivers?

I probably will upgrade to mostly copper in the end.

Again, thanks Hobbs

Hopefully, the pics show some of the other differences, but they're not drastic overall, aside from overall height and relative driver placement.
The front baffles on our website have a wave guide that is more similar to the one in the flatpack.

No matter which route you go, you're in for a treat~ 

[Groundzero]

Is there anything you can tell us about those stands? It looks like an 8" servo sub built in?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Is there anything you can tell us about those stands? It looks like an 8" servo sub built in?

Correct. They are a dual 8" U-Frame servo sub stands.
They're a semi-open baffle subwoofer intended for smaller rooms.
With the servo amp built into the towers.

They will easily hit low 20s in medium rooms, but in small/narrow rooms they can hit into the high teens.

They kinda fall short in larger rooms sadly, only getting down to 30-35Hz range. The12"  H-frame subs would be best for anything bigger.

My apartment livingroom is roughly 20x12. I wouldn't go much larger than that with these, unless your room is more long/narrow

They aren't quite as detailed or heavy hitting as the H-frame subs, but still offer much faster, cleaner bass than even my sealed Rythmik L12 subwoofer.

We just got the 8" woofers back in stock last week. The trouble now is getting the amps we need for them, but Rythmik is currently struggling the get any amps made due to the chip shortage. And their next next shipment of amps isnt expected for another couple months..

But we are looking to get custom amps from Rythmik sent to us, but "when" is really dependent on supply chain issues easing as to how fast we can get them made, and make these available again.

[mlundy57]

Is there anything you can tell us about those stands? It looks like an 8" servo sub built in?

You can find a discussion of the stands here in Danny’s circle. Do a search for Best Speaker Stands Ever. A few years ago I built a pair of them as part of a 5.1 music/HT setup. They were paired with X-CS Encores for main and center speakers and a Rythmik F12G (same as servo sub kit 2). I had them at LSAF before shipping them to their new home. They live up to their name

[Chops]

but I doubt that the small differences in the shape are going to be that drastic in influencing their overall sound, all else being equal.

The two different baffles and wave guide designs probably have more impact in sound than one would think.

[Tubefly]

Hi Hobbs,

Wanted to say thank you for doing this comparison. Subtle differences aside, there are those of us here that appreciate the comparisons.

Best, Alan

[Chops]

there are those of us here that appreciate the comparisons.

Best, Alan

Uhh, I didn't say that I didn't appreciate it, just that there's a lot more going on in the comparison than just the crossovers which skew the results.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Uhh, I didn't say that I didn't appreciate it, just that there's a lot more going on in the comparison than just the crossovers which skew the results.

Danny said he doesn't expect the differences in the design to be much of a factor in their sound.

Imo, it's not going to affect the overall clarity or tone, especially to the extent I was hearing between them. In terms of clarity, imaging and soundstage, they were both spot on. A lot of the differences for me came down to how their tone and feel.

Cheap-o crossover aside, the stock and overkill crossovers both have a lot to offer with clarity, detail and spaciousness, but how they are presented is what different.

But it's fine if you still disagree on the matter.
I'm just reporting my experience.

[Redheart]

Thanks for the comparative filter feedback!
I am really interested in upgrading the caps in the tweeters on my studios, but also the inductors!
Does yours have exactly the same DCR values than those on the stock filters?
I have found it's very hard to get!
Also it's hard to find the same mH value for that tweeter inductor.
I am also loving the stock filters that has such speed and dynamics. But if it can reach higher levels of everything, i am All for it.