Dune (2021) - WOW!!!

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WGH

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #40 on: 31 Oct 2021, 07:30 pm »
Nolan and Villeneuve are uncompromising artists pushing the limits of their craft, they make movies that appeal to the masses but not necessarily for the masses.

I'm sure we have all heard or own stereos that can play music so loud and clear without distortion that the music doesn't sound loud all until you try to speak to another person. Wide dynamic swings are enjoyable and we cherish recordings that are able to reproduce what real life sounds like.

Dune has such wide dynamic swings, from Jessica's whispers to the 11 channel blast of bagpipes as House Antreides arrives on Arrakis. Since Dune is mixed for state-of-the-art theaters your home theater needs to be of the same caliber to achieve the WOW! effect the director intended. I tend to rant on to my friends that the Dune soundtrack is an integral part of the film. Yes the film is still enjoyable at home but 1/2 of the film's emotional impact will be missed if your system is not up to the challenge.

Think of the latest big budget films as a opportunity to update your home theater. I found a use for the unused amps in my electronics closet and repurposed them for surround and Atmos channels for a system total of 1740 class AB high current watts. The Salk and Triad speakers can handle the wide dynamic swings effortlessly without distortion and Dune was just as enjoyable in my home theater as in the movie theater, dialog in both settings was always clear and distinct.

You guys have 2 years and 45 days before Dune Part 2.   

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #41 on: 31 Oct 2021, 08:37 pm »
WGH, the problem is most of the movie theaters in the U.S are not state of the art and I do not see most of them upgrading anytime soon with the loses they have taken due to covid and streaming.

Also, there are people with the latest AVR's that have reported the same issue.

We pay a lot of money to see Dune in an excellent movie theater (almost $70 for 4 people) only to not be able hear a lot of the dialog.  That is total BS.  I don't care who the director is.  It just shows he does not care about the audience.  If they cared, they would make 2 sound tracks.  We should have asked for our money back and walked out.  And the music was overwhelming.  It could have been toned down a bit and not lost its impact.  How about let good acting and screen play set the tone.  The music did  not need to play during scenes with whispering.

WGH

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #42 on: 31 Oct 2021, 10:21 pm »
Also, there are people with the latest AVR's that have reported the same issue...
....The music did  not need to play during scenes with whispering.

I'm not surprised that people with new AVR's are having problems. I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me? With 11-channels going during the bagpipes scene each channel gets 13.6 watts, no wonder dialog suffers, distortion numbers probably hit their peak, the sound gets nasty and your wife tells you to turn it down and now you still can't hear the dialog.

There is a $1000 Marantz 7-channel AVR with 50 watts per channel with 2 channels driven  :duh:

The Anthem MRX 740 and MRX 1140 use a combination of class AB and D amps so they actually have a chance to sound good. Their surround decoding and clarity is far superior compared to my old Outlaw 7.1 processor.

The center channel speaker plays a huge role determining if the dialog is understandable. I'm on my third center channel speaker. The first was a small JBL 2500 with a metal dome tweeter. The second a  RAW Acoustics HT2C Center Speaker w/ Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter. Both were ported and added a chestyness to male voices, clarity suffered.

I got lucky and saw a Salk HT2C in the Trading Post and grabbed it. The HT2C is a perfect center channel speaker. The Seas W18 drivers are precise, the RAAL tweeter is super clear, both drivers are unbelievably quick which is a necessity for human speech. The speaker is sealed so there in no artificial bass either. The center channel gets 120w from a used AVA Insight 3-channel amp, many AVR's don't have that many watts for all 5 channels. The Salk HT2C would probably disappear with only 13.6 watts from the expensive Denon. No dialog? Yea, blame it on the soundtrack.

I don't have any answers to the current dilemma of movie enthusiasts putting thousand of dollars into a home theater and it still can't accurately play the newest films. It will probably always be a hobby of trying to catch up.

wushuliu

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #43 on: 1 Nov 2021, 01:41 am »
Nobody wants a history lesson in a movie, even about a mythical universe.  Leave all the intricacies of politics and social convections to the book and just film the adventure. 

Unfortunately the politics, the environmentalism, and the complex cultural history are what make the book special. The adventure part by itself is just another outsider-becomes-messiah; after all the book was written right after Lawrence of Arabia took the world by storm.

I thought the movie was a mixed bag in that Dilleneuve is a brilliant visual artist and master of tone. This is the best *any* adaptation could possibly look and sound. The downside is the movie is so afraid of touching the important plot nuances that it just breezes through characters with minimal set-up. Anyone who has not read the book won't even scratch the surface of what's going on.

They could have easily fleshed key areas out. Hell, cutting half of Paul's visions of Zendaya would free up a couple minutes. And really that's all you need. Just a few clean, clear, minutes sprinkled throughout to show the audience what's *really* at stake. You'd be surprised at how much a few seconds of well-placed exposition and emotion can anchor a film if it's done well.

But they didn't. Because Legendary was too afraid to bankroll shooting the whole film at once and decided to make just the first part. Which meant making it as marketable as possible. That's more or less been confirmed in reporting.

So all in all, it's a visual feast. Not much more than that, but hopefully it will inspire people to read the book. Now that Part 2 has been greenlit I hope more effort will be made to flesh out the plot.

Bendingwave

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #44 on: 1 Nov 2021, 02:33 am »
I'm not surprised that people with new AVR's are having problems. I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me? With 11-channels going during the bagpipes scene each channel gets 13.6 watts, no wonder dialog suffers, distortion numbers probably hit their peak, the sound gets nasty and your wife tells you to turn it down and now you still can't hear the dialog.

There is a $1000 Marantz 7-channel AVR with 50 watts per channel with 2 channels driven  :duh:

The Anthem MRX 740 and MRX 1140 use a combination of class AB and D amps so they actually have a chance to sound good. Their surround decoding and clarity is far superior compared to my old Outlaw 7.1 processor.

The center channel speaker plays a huge role determining if the dialog is understandable. I'm on my third center channel speaker. The first was a small JBL 2500 with a metal dome tweeter. The second a  RAW Acoustics HT2C Center Speaker w/ Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter. Both were ported and added a chestyness to male voices, clarity suffered.

I got lucky and saw a Salk HT2C in the Trading Post and grabbed it. The HT2C is a perfect center channel speaker. The Seas W18 drivers are precise, the RAAL tweeter is super clear, both drivers are unbelievably quick which is a necessity for human speech. The speaker is sealed so there in no artificial bass either. The center channel gets 120w from a used AVA Insight 3-channel amp, many AVR's don't have that many watts for all 5 channels. The Salk HT2C would probably disappear with only 13.6 watts from the expensive Denon. No dialog? Yea, blame it on the soundtrack.

I don't have any answers to the current dilemma of movie enthusiasts putting thousand of dollars into a home theater and it still can't accurately play the newest films. It will probably always be a hobby of trying to catch up.

Its 150 watts for 2 channels driven in stereo. It doesnt say but I highly doubt its 13.6 watts for all channels driven its probably more like 100watts each when all 13 channels are driven.  It does not split 150 watts into the rest of the channels.

Most AV receivers will put its greatest power in 2 channel stereo mode while the surrounds have slightly less power.

Also I didnt really care for the movie it was kind of slow and boring in the beginning.

artur9

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #45 on: 1 Nov 2021, 03:17 am »
Unfortunately the politics, the environmentalism, and the complex cultural history are what make the book special.
I was wondering how they would do the dinner scene and disappointed to find out its not in there.

Maybe they can add it later.
I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me?
I have a Krell Cinema Showcase rated 110W/ch all 7 channels driven.  Someone on another thread said that was a ridiculous spec because no one needs that much wattage on 7 channels.  Now along comes Dune :-)


WGH

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #46 on: 1 Nov 2021, 03:35 am »
Its 150 watts for 2 channels driven in stereo. It doesnt say but I highly doubt its 13.6 watts for all channels driven its probably more like 100watts each when all 13 channels are driven.  It does not split 150 watts into the rest of the channels.

You are correct, I did the math wrong (a little knowledge is a dangerous thing) . Each channel probably gets between 50 - 100 watts but after looking for answers it seems everyone is guessing since manufacturers don't publish specs. Then I found the article below. The video is a must watch if you are into watts.

This Audioholics article is geek approved:

Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/receiver-back-panel-power-ratings

The wide dynamic swings in Dune like 110 watts per channel, it makes the effects instantaneous and effortless. Based on the article your Krell probably puts out more than 110 watts per channel.

My Salk speakers are 88dB and the Triad Atmos and surrounds are 84dB so more power is always appreciated at my house.

Letitroll98

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #47 on: 1 Nov 2021, 08:20 am »
And to be clear, it's in the high end theaters that viewers are reporting difficulty hearing dialogue.  In my local old timey low tech theater the soundtrack was perfect, no issues at all.  So this is not a lack of quality equipment issue.

Tyson

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #48 on: 1 Nov 2021, 03:03 pm »
I have a somewhat different take on it.  In real life, have you ever been in a situation with overwhelmingly loud sound?  You can barely hear yourself think, let alone be heard if you try to talk.  To me, these moments in Dune with the sound overwhelming the dialog actually replicated this experience quite well. 

SoCalWJS

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #49 on: 1 Nov 2021, 03:51 pm »
I'm not surprised that people with new AVR's are having problems. I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me? With 11-channels going during the bagpipes scene each channel gets 13.6 watts, no wonder dialog suffers, distortion numbers probably hit their peak, the sound gets nasty and your wife tells you to turn it down and now you still can't hear the dialog.

There is a $1000 Marantz 7-channel AVR with 50 watts per channel with 2 channels driven  :duh:

The Anthem MRX 740 and MRX 1140 use a combination of class AB and D amps so they actually have a chance to sound good. Their surround decoding and clarity is far superior compared to my old Outlaw 7.1 processor.

The center channel speaker plays a huge role determining if the dialog is understandable. I'm on my third center channel speaker. The first was a small JBL 2500 with a metal dome tweeter. The second a  RAW Acoustics HT2C Center Speaker w/ Aurum Cantus ribbon tweeter. Both were ported and added a chestyness to male voices, clarity suffered.

I got lucky and saw a Salk HT2C in the Trading Post and grabbed it. The HT2C is a perfect center channel speaker. The Seas W18 drivers are precise, the RAAL tweeter is super clear, both drivers are unbelievably quick which is a necessity for human speech. The speaker is sealed so there in no artificial bass either. The center channel gets 120w from a used AVA Insight 3-channel amp, many AVR's don't have that many watts for all 5 channels. The Salk HT2C would probably disappear with only 13.6 watts from the expensive Denon. No dialog? Yea, blame it on the soundtrack.

I don't have any answers to the current dilemma of movie enthusiasts putting thousand of dollars into a home theater and it still can't accurately play the newest films. It will probably always be a hobby of trying to catch up.
Solution: (for me anyway)

Buy a HT Receiver with RCA Outs for at least the FL/FR channels and use an external amp as they traditionally use/need the most power, followed by the CC (possibly an external amp for that as well). Makes it pretty easy for a decent HT Receiver to drive the rest of the channels. Most of the time.

routlaw

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #50 on: 1 Nov 2021, 05:16 pm »
FWIW I have never owned an AVR, nor do I plan to either. I do however own a dedicated Pre-Pro (my third) which drives either mono blocs (1000 WPC 4 ohm load) for the RF & LF and other amps that have the capability of delivery 600 WPC into a 4 ohm load which includes the center channel all fully differentially balanced designs from input to output. Speakers are Genesis with all metal cone drivers and ribbon tweeter.

Its not the gear, its a movie that was released with a poorly mastered soundtrack for dialog.

Its awesome that some of the members here have been to movie theaters and been able to hear the dialogue but that was most likely due to the fact the movie theater "raised" the level of the center channel knowing there was an issue. Its quite easy to do.

nature boy

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #51 on: 14 Nov 2021, 09:09 pm »
Saw Dune in my local theater. Thoroughly enjoyable, very true to the novel too. Will crank on the Hans Zimmer soundtrack to give my system a workout this week.

NB

artur9

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #52 on: 15 Nov 2021, 02:55 am »
I found the soundtrack a bit distracting.  I'm not a huge percussion fan.

Otherwise, the movie was great.  The design elements outstanding, Timothy was very good.  Momoa definitely stole the show :-)  Faithful to the book, with sensible tweaks to translate to a new medium.

And no voiceovers, yay!

Carlman

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #53 on: 17 Nov 2021, 04:11 pm »
Pretty solid movie.  I had to hookup a Roku and add it to my system to watch it.. and that means my receiver decided that "TV-On-Air" was the sound I wanted.  I have no idea where that choice came from.. but I changed it to DTS 7.1.  I had no issue with dialogue, everything was fine.  I had the sub dialed-in perfectly.. so all the boom-booms had weight without bloom.  All the music and sounds were well delineated... nothing got in the way of other frequencies in general. 

The movie itself was enjoyable and a nice ride.  I really enjoyed the original.. which was a weird mix of a cheesy sci-fi and cerebral/trippy.  This one pulled it all together and balanced all of those elements well.  My only issue was with Paul.  He was youthful but becoming a man in the original... in this one it was like millenial-esque... where a really wimpy boy was becoming a less wimpy guy of some sort.  Felt limp to me.  Plus when he said 'you good?', that stood out... reminder that it's 2021.. and Aquaman is flying now.  I don't know... just some odd bits that kind of ruin the fantasy of the movie for me.

But overall, definitely worth watching on a big screen/system.  My screen is 9' in a 14x28 room.. so proportionately kind of a medium theater.  Watching this on a regular 50" or smaller TV and regular speakers would not be as enjoyable for me.  I needed it all..  I gave it about a 3.5 out of 5.

Watching this made me realize my old HT receiver sounds good overall.. just confusing and weird to get it to work right.. and that's mainly because there have been dozens of different 'standards' released since it was purchased.

I'm just happy that now blu-ray DVD's are getting cheaper because the new '4,k' Blu-ray's are taking the front stage.  The sound quality on BR is adequate for me.  The video is great, not sure what other details I'd want to see.


Vince in TX

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #54 on: 17 Nov 2021, 04:49 pm »
I'm about to screen it again for a friend shortly.   I've watched it a few times already, but haven't watched it since I hooked up the Odyssey Kismets to the front speakers (one stereo for L/R, and one mono for C).   Free Guy sounded incredible, so I'm looking forward to the re-screening.



Vince in TX

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #55 on: 17 Nov 2021, 04:59 pm »
I'm not surprised that people with new AVR's are having problems. I went to Crutchfield to see what the specifications were for the most expensive AVR they carry.
The Denon AVR-A110 is $5999.00, it is a 13.2-channel home theater receiver with Dolby Atmos with 150 watts per channel with 2 channels driven. Are you friggin' kidding me? With 11-channels going during the bagpipes scene each channel gets 13.6 watts, no wonder dialog suffers, distortion numbers probably hit their peak, the sound gets nasty and your wife tells you to turn it down and now you still can't hear the dialog.
...

I solved this problem by taking the front channel off the AVR (Marantz SR8015) into separate amps, and then bumping the center channel up a couple of decibels.   I have more than one friend who's said I've spoiled them and that they can't go back to a commercial cinema anymore.    :thumb:




pyroch

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #56 on: 24 Nov 2021, 05:35 pm »
The book is equally as good, but lacks audio :)

simoon

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #57 on: 24 Nov 2021, 08:25 pm »
I'm a big fan of the original movie. May have to venture out to the theater to see this version.

While the David Lynch version is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me, I don't think it was very good. And it was pretty far from the book.

It did look great, though.

I actually thought the 2000 Sci-Fi miniseries was quite a bit better, and much closer to the book.

But both the original movie and the miniseries did not cast the part of Paul very well. He is only 15 when the story starts, and described as small for his age.

As someone who has read all the books, and the original 3 books several times, the 2021 version is so much better than the original.

Chewbacca

Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #58 on: 24 Nov 2021, 09:10 pm »
I am a HUGE fan of Dune. My favorite book, my favorite story. I've read the original 3 books a few times, and am in the middle of Dune Messiah right now... When I heard they were doing another movie on the original book, I was both happy and sad. Mainly sad actually. Reasoning being, I saw the original movie when I was maybe 6 or 7. Then the miniseries soon after it came out, so maybe 10 or 11? Then when I was about 15 I decided to read the book. I had VERY little memory of the movie/miniseries, so I was able to create all the characters, scenes, random things.. GlowGlobes, Thopters etc. in my head. I had a VERY clear idea of what everyone, everything, every scene looked like in my head... and I LOVED it!

I didn't even want to look at the cast initially, because it would ruin the picture I had in my head of each character... Then I saw that Hans Zimmer was doing the score. That alone sold me on it... I took a look at the cast, was EXTREMELY impressed! VERY similar to how I imagined them. Then I got tickets as soon as I could for the IMAX to get the best seats in the house. Made SURE I didn't see a single preview! So I went into the movie not knowing anything!... and I have to say... I LOVE IT! I think they did almost as good as they could have on it. My really ONLY gripe is that Paul is a total WIMP! Yes, he was supposed to be small. He's not, he's tall, but outrageously and unbelievably skinny... He was literally one of the best warriors in the universe at the age of 15/shortly after... all that training would have put on some muscle. Like c'mon... Have the kid hit the gym for like a MONTH at least lol!

I've seen it once in the theaters, and three times at home on HBO. Going to watch it again with my parents this weekend and the Oticas handling the score! :green:

The only Movie remake of a book that I've liked as much is Lord of the Rings... My favorite movies, and second favorite book/s. Depending on how they handle the other movies, these may pass up LOTR!

artur9

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Re: Dune (2021) - WOW!!!
« Reply #59 on: 25 Nov 2021, 04:39 pm »
Reasoning being, I saw the original movie when I was maybe 6 or 7. Then the miniseries soon after it came out, so maybe 10 or 11?
The movie came out in 1984 and the miniseries in 2000.  Did you see the movie on tape/disc?

I think the 2021 movie is pretty darn good. 

In terms of casting, I'm not sure how possible it would be to cast a scrawny 15yo in the main role and then have them blossom in time for the second act.