[abomwell]

Sounds as though you have all the bases covered, Tangram. Nice setup you have there!

Al

[catluck]

I've now owned my M3's since April.  Over that period, listening about 2 hours/day, the speakers have definitely "opened up."  In particular. the much hoped for "holographic imaging" has significantly improved to the point where some CD's are simply remarkable, i.e., Bill Charlap "All Through The Night" and much other jazz (my primary genre).  I also agree that new, upper frequencies did sound a bit rough.  But now music truly "blooms" into the room and is simply ravishing.  The bass is wholly satisfying in terms of presence, pitch, and texture.  I was at a "dinner party" (yeah, I know it dates me) the other night and the hosts owned a music system which they lauded but which, to me, were agnostic to musical values (at best).  They asked me what I thought and I asked if I could be honest with them ("yes").  I discussed soundstage (absent), dynamics (boring), and the lack of resolution/detail that make music exciting.  They asked if they could listen to my system.  I agreed and we decamped to my house (down the street).  I sat them on the couch and fired up the Psvane 845 monos.  Then I played Ted Nash, Art Tatum, Chris Cheek, etc. They sat on the couch stunned at the presentation.  Then they asked me to help them achieve that experience in their home.  I credit the M3's to a huge degree.  Yeah the ancillary equipment is quality stuff but the M3's provide. If you're not getting similar results check and re-check your room set-up because these speaks seem limited only by the room and ancillary electronics (at least with the music I listen to).  BTW, I'm using the 4 ohm taps on the amps.

[jjss49]

i will likely to be selling my m3 sapphires (sapele finish) next month... will prefer a buyer in the nor-cal area (or within driving distance....however you choose to define that  ), so we can avoid shipping

please pm me if anyone is interested, i can pass details

[Audiosaurusrex]

i will likely to be selling my m3 sapphires (sapele finish) next month... will prefer a buyer in the nor-cal area (or within driving distance....however you choose to define that  ), so we can avoid shipping

please pm me if anyone is interested, i can pass details

jjss49
Any particular reason you are selling?

[Tangram]

@catluck Thanks for the feedback. What you are experiencing after months of ownership is what I am hoping for. “Holographic” describes, to me, the holy grail of two-channel soundstage and imaging. Fingers crossed.

One thing I’ve noticed is that it is easy to get acceptable sound as long as the speakers are pulled away from the wall. But to get great sound requires some effort (ruler, protractor, laser level etc.). Making slight adjustments (an inch here, an inch there, a couple of degrees of toe-in) can materially alter the presentation. In my room I am liking the sound most when the listening spot is 1.3X from the tweeters compared with the tweeter to tweeter distance and tweeters are pointed just outside my shoulders. I tried equidistant (as many recommend) but my center image collapsed

Listening to the first side of Norah Jones’ Pick Me up off the Floor last night after fiddling for an hour gave me truly stellar sound. Now if I can achieve close to this on lesser recordings I will be a happy camper.

[franSSS]

I've now owned my M3's since April.  Over that period, listening about 2 hours/day, the speakers have definitely "opened up."  In particular. the much hoped for "holographic imaging" has significantly improved to the point where some CD's are simply remarkable, i.e., Bill Charlap "All Through The Night" and much other jazz (my primary genre).  I also agree that new, upper frequencies did sound a bit rough.  But now music truly "blooms" into the room and is simply ravishing.  The bass is wholly satisfying in terms of presence, pitch, and texture.  I was at a "dinner party" (yeah, I know it dates me) the other night and the hosts owned a music system which they lauded but which, to me, were agnostic to musical values (at best).  They asked me what I thought and I asked if I could be honest with them ("yes").  I discussed soundstage (absent), dynamics (boring), and the lack of resolution/detail that make music exciting.  They asked if they could listen to my system.  I agreed and we decamped to my house (down the street).  I sat them on the couch and fired up the Psvane 845 monos.  Then I played Ted Nash, Art Tatum, Chris Cheek, etc. They sat on the couch stunned at the presentation.  Then they asked me to help them achieve that experience in their home.  I credit the M3's to a huge degree.  Yeah the ancillary equipment is quality stuff but the M3's provide. If you're not getting similar results check and re-check your room set-up because these speaks seem limited only by the room and ancillary electronics (at least with the music I listen to).  BTW, I'm using the 4 ohm taps on the amps.

So nice when a system sings! The more i read the more impatient i am getting!

[jjss49]

jjss49
Any particular reason you are selling?

i recently was fortunate to be able to buy back one of my all time most beloved speakers (the spendor sp100, which i stupidly sold off over a decade ago) and am really enjoying those again in my main system ... i really love the sound of the m3s's but my purpose in pursuing the spatials late last year was to mate them very low powered, super-sweet s-e tube amps, and while i don't at all fault clayton for recommending the m3s's to me at the initial point of purchase given my listening room setup, i will move to a set of x3 or x5's for my next time around with spatials, with their integral, powered woofers taking a load off the main amp driving the upper ranges

clayton is such a terrific guy, knowledgeable and wonderful to deal with, and the m3s speakers are simply amazing in what they do well... for me, i may still keep them yet, but i am inclined at this point to continue down the road in my own hifi journey

[Tangram]

300 hour update.

I’ve burned in. I’ve rolled tubes. I’ve spent hours on speaker placement, toe in and listening position. The room is treated. I’ve measured my room. And…life is good…except…

I can’t tame transient highs on some recordings. I was willing to blame the recording until I played one of the very best-sounding records I own - a 1974 Japanese reissue of Miles Davis’s Someday My Prince Will Come. This is not just one of the best sounding records I own. This is my favorite MD album of all-time.

The first track has Miles using his mute. Honestly, I was quite dismayed by what I heard. Above 80 db (which, let’s face it, isn’t that loud), that trumpet felt like I was at the dentist having a cavity drilled out. It isn’t the recording.

I’ve used a Schiit Loki in my system previously. I am seriously considering the purchase of their Lokius, which is their new six-band tone control. But unfortunately in my room, if I want to listen at “typical” audiophile levels, I’m going to need some EQ.
 

[abomwell]

300 hour update.

I’ve burned in. I’ve rolled tubes. I’ve spent hours on speaker placement, toe in and listening position. The room is treated. I’ve measured my room. And…life is good…except…

I can’t tame transient highs on some recordings. I was willing to blame the recording until I played one of the very best-sounding records I own - a 1974 Japanese reissue of Miles Davis’s Someday My Prince Will Come. This is not just one of the best sounding records I own. This is my favorite MD album of all-time.

The first track has Miles using his mute. Honestly, I was quite dismayed by what I heard. Above 80 db (which, let’s face it, isn’t that loud), that trumpet felt like I was at the dentist having a cavity drilled out. It isn’t the recording.

I’ve used a Schiit Loki in my system previously. I am seriously considering the purchase of their Lokius, which is their new six-band tone control. But unfortunately in my room, if I want to listen at “typical” audiophile levels, I’m going to need some EQ.

Yes, EQ would likely help. EQ can fix frequency response but not the radiation pattern of a speaker which is the major advantage of dipoles.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Mid range is good but there’s room for improvement compared with the little Maggies (which, if I was advising someone new to this hobby who had a limited budget I would recommend without reservation). “Liquid smooth” is the term that pops into my head for the Maggies. The Spatials in comparison are a bit more “ragged” if that makes any sense. I am hoping this will change with time. I also need to continue playing with placement. I think the Spatials’ imaging and soundstage can be improved.

That said, listening to Side One of Rush’s Permanent Waves last night was revelatory. All of the nuances of Peart’s drumming came through and provided such incredible rhythmic drive to the music. Big, big smile on my face. I also played my new UHQR Kind of Blue two nights ago and heard stuff on there that I’ve never heard in the countless times I’ve listened to it. The detail on these speakers is impressive. The pressing probably helped as well!

Just need to be patient and give the speakers (and my brain?) time and I suspect I’ll have a real winner for my room, system, and listening tastes.

I like your honesty about the comparison to your maggies.  I did a home audition of the original turbo model 3's and it was totally blown out of the water by my Magnepan 1.6's with my Pass X250amp and BAT VK51se preamp.  I got lambasted on AC for posting that even though I had a few friends over and they felt the same way.  The spatials could not compete with  the Maggie musicality and midrange.

I am sure that the newer Spatials are way better than the model I  auditioned and would love to compare them again.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the Spatials!

[Tangram]

Yes, it is always a bit risky to point out apparent flaws on a forum devoted to a particular brand or piece of gear because many folks have sunk their hard-earned dollars into them. But this is a very civilized forum that is overwhelmingly frequented by level-headed individuals.

The Spatials are considerably more dynamic than the Maggies, which accentuates the transient highs. Those dynamics and the desire to use my XA30.5 rather than my Parasound A21 Signature are worth the tradeoff. Now I just need to tame those highs.

The Spatials are the equal of the little LRS's in many other ways, now that they have broken in. That's a good thing. I can't comment on the older Spatial models.  I don't believe there is a better deal in audiophile speakers, even with the added cost of aftermarket stands (I use Magna Risers) than the LRS's..

Ordered a Schiit Lokius today. They are way behind so two months before it graces my doorstep. My desire to increase the volume will need to be tempered until then.

[dallaire1]

 Tangram, this is my in room freq response at the MLP using DiracLive to measure. You had said you thought tweeters can be a bit hot on the M3's on some recordings. I have experienced the same, you can see in the screen shot of Dirac the bit of a shelf at 2.5K-4.5K. A solid 2-3db, this is why I engage Dirac Live. it corrects for this area. I have looked at the Peerless frequency response graph and this shelf does not exist so one could assume this is caused by my room interactions or  possible edge diffraction as the driver unit is not obviously tested in the M3 but instead at Peerless labs. Hope this helps you maybe find the right filter if you end up correcting for it, if its even similar in your situation. The dip at 200hz is what it is, again boundary cancelation.

[Daryl Zero]

Yes, it is always a bit risky to point out apparent flaws on a forum devoted to a particular brand or piece of gear because many folks have sunk their hard-earned dollars into them. But this is a very civilized forum that is overwhelmingly frequented by level-headed individuals.

The Spatials are considerably more dynamic than the Maggies, which accentuates the transient highs. Those dynamics and the desire to use my XA30.5 rather than my Parasound A21 Signature are worth the tradeoff. Now I just need to tame those highs.

The Spatials are the equal of the little LRS's in many other ways, now that they have broken in. That's a good thing. I can't comment on the older Spatial models.  I don't believe there is a better deal in audiophile speakers, even with the added cost of aftermarket stands (I use Magna Risers) than the LRS's..

Ordered a Schiit Lokius today. They are way behind so two months before it graces my doorstep. My desire to increase the volume will need to be tempered until then.

There is some cognitive dissonance involved when you purchase high cost equipment.

I also came from Magnepan starting with the LRS and then upgrading to the .7s. I thought I would continue going up the chain but I realized that (1) you aren't going to get the bass with the Magnepans so you have to invest in a subwoofer or two -- I tried a Rel T/5x which wasn't large enough for my room so I'm thinking that subs are going to cost me about $2,400 in all, (2) if I go to the Magnepan 3.7is eventually, that is going to cost me well over $6,000, (3) I will probably have to spend another $5,000 plus on a really good amp to drive them -- I have vintage stuff but it constantly needs work, and (4) you aren't going to get the dynamics with the Magnepans.

I listened to the X5s before buying and they have the sound I want and the fullness. The gear I have to drive them drives them so easily that I barely am turning up the volume. That means I can figure out (hopefully) the best way to drive these guys at the best cost and not spend that much. The stuff I have now even sounds pretty good without any room treatment or attempt to even place these speakers because my room is an office and I can't now. The idea is that I'm retiring in a few years and I will be able to change the room at that time.

So these are endgame speakers for me. I consider myself an enthusiast and not an audiophile as I'm really not interested in the theory or anything. I played and wrote garage band stuff about 38 years ago so I have a good idea or possible memory of what instruments are supposed to sound like. I just want an open, natural sound and these speakers deliver in spades.

The guy I bought these speakers from (and he originally bought them in March of 2021 so they are almost new) had already bought another set of speakers that probably sounded great (although looked ugly) but he was committed and he could afford it. I don't want to pump that much money into this. I got a great price on a speaker that I didn't think I could really afford. The price was just too good so I jumped on it.

I'm glad to have found a forum where like-minded people can discuss things and I love to hear other people agree with my feelings about the speakers but I also think that I could have just stayed with the .7s and the increases in benefit are diminishing above it. So I have no problem with hearing anyone with differing opinions as long as I don't feel I made a huge mistake. I did research this obsessively to make sure I didn't. I also drove 150 miles to hear the speakers (for the first time live) before I pulled the trigger.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Well I had the first version of the M3 turbo's and they  were not nearly as dynamic as my 1.6's.  They also had a midrange suck out and Clayton admitted it to me but said the new crossover would fix that.  I am sure the latest Spatials sound great.  I am hoping to hear them at an audio show at some point in time.

 I really wanted to like the M3's as I was looking to move on from the 1.6's which I still have.  I run them with dual original Martin Logan Dynamo subs that I bought used for under $200 each and they integrate seamlessly..

[geerock]

 I really wanted to like the M3's as I was looking to move on from the 1.6's which I still have.  I run them with dual original Martin Logan Dynamo subs that I bought used for under $200 each and they integrate seamlessly..

Brings back memory when I was trying to get some decent bass out of my 1.7i's.  I was trying out every sub I could find.....all in the 2 to 3k range.  Every one of them muddled up the bass and were way ro slow for the Maggie's.  An old timer (yes, even older than me) working at a local audio shop suggested the Martin Logan Dynamo sealed sub.  $500.
As soon as I plugged it in I knew i had finally found what i needed.  I still use that set up in a second system.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Beings back memory when I was trying to get some decent bass out of my 1.7i's.  I was trying out every sub I could find.....all in the 2 to 3k range.  Every one of them muddled up the bass and were way ro slow for the Maggie's.  An old timer (yes, even older than me) working at a local audio shop suggested the Martin Logan Dynamo sealed sub.  $500.
As soon as I plugged it in I knew i had finally found what i needed.  I still use that set up in a second system.

Yes, the sealed Dynamo subs are great for music and have nice tight, fast and musical bass.  I was surprised at how well they integrate.  I feel the trick to integrate them is to run maggies at full range and cross the subs over at drop off point of the maggies.  Also, do not turn the subs up too loud.  I have thought about getting dual Rythmik subs but they I listen to my system and think why.

However, it would be nice to have a Spatial speaker with 15" woofers so I would not need 2 subs and a Pass X250 amp at 500wpc and 105 pounds to drive them.

[JackD]

Larry

Paul at Anti-Cables is listed as a Demo facility for Spatial speakers so Paul probably has several of the new models you can listen to. Also I still used a pair of Rythmik F12's with my M3TM's and they have 15 inch woofers. 

[Mr. Big]

The Sapphires M3's do not have highs that will tear your head off, if so there is something in your system causing those upper mids and highs to be pushed forward. If it is in the recording then yes, but I own 1,500 recordings in CD format and all the ones I know to sound great and do so on the Sapphires and my last speakers were Quads ESL 63's which I loved and if the Sapphires had remained bright after break-in they been long gone. In my room, I did not like my Quads on spikes, with the Sapphires I did, but I like them much better with no spikes with the front feet that the spikes screw into resting on my carpeted floor. What I like about when they are spiked becomes more so when not.

[Tangram]

The Sapphires M3's do not have highs that will tear your head off, if so there is something in your system causing those upper mids and highs to be pushed forward. If it is in the recording then yes, but I own 1,500 recordings in CD format and all the ones I know to sound great and do so on the Sapphires and my last speakers were Quads ESL 63's which I loved and if the Sapphires had remained bright after break-in they been long gone. In my room, I did not like my Quads on spikes, with the Sapphires I did, but I like them much better with no spikes with the front feet that the spikes screw into resting on my carpeted floor. What I like about when they are spiked becomes more so when not.

Our experiences are our experiences and extrapolating that to others requires caveats and asterisks. We hear differently, our systems are different, our rooms are different, and we listen at different volumes. In my case, I like to listen at 75-85 db, A-weighted, with peaks exceeding 85 db on occasion. This may be louder or quieter than what others listen at, depending on tastes, living circumstances etc. If I listen at 70-75 db, there is no issue with peaky highs. If it was an issue with my system, then shouldn't the problem be with either the recording or the speakers? Why can I listen to one recording at the same volume but with the only change being the speakers and not have the issue if the issue isn't the speakers? I guess you could say that the audio chain is synergistic and that changing one component may affect the way it interacts with another component. Maybe because the bass is so clean on the M3s I am pushing the volume higher than before (bass was previously the limiting factor in my room when it came to listening volume).

I am glad you don't have the same issue. That gives me hope. But I doubt that my all-analog system, with a high end turntable/arm/cartridge, tubes in the line and phono stages and using one of the best Class A amps around, is going to cause the treble problem. Cables? Well, anything is possible but swapping those will be a last resort. Additional room treatments? Again, worth thinking about. But for now, I'm going to take the lazy man's approach and insert a tone control between my preamp and amp. The short-term goal is to enjoy one of my favourite jazz albums of all time again, an album that has sounded sublime on every other speaker I've had in my room. 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Larry

Paul at Anti-Cables is listed as a Demo facility for Spatial speakers so Paul probably has several of the new models you can listen to. Also I still used a pair of Rythmik F12's with my M3TM's and they have 15 inch woofers.

Thanks Jack.  That is who let me take the original M3's home.  I live about 10 minutes from Paul.  I should give him a call.