AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: mrotino332 on 11 Nov 2021, 03:16 pm
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I guess I'll be the first one to ask but other than the X4 not having a powered woofer, what is the real difference between these models? I've had the X5 for the past year and a half and it is an amazing speaker and the main reasons I purchased it over the other models was the high efficiency, 8 ohm load and self powered woofer.
From what I can tell the X4 is 4 db less efficient, most likely has different brand midrange (Beyma) and woofer (Beyma) and maybe also has different crossover parts. The price on the website between these models is the same so I'm wondering what the pros and cons are for both for any new prospective customer? I'm really just curious on why one would pick either model over the other as the cost is the same.
For me as I mentioned I wanted the higher efficiency and powered woofer as I like to adjust the bass loudness to my liking so prefer the ability/flexibility to tune it based on the speaker location. One of my amplifiers stays in Class A for speakers above 5 ohms so that was another consideration.
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Well, the drivers are different and it's passive. From what you say your speakers currently meet your needs, so enjoy! How would they sound by sonics, perhaps Clayton could tell you or post here, if there is a difference at all, I like the passive designs.
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I would think they probably sound quite similar. The difference in drivers probably comes down to application over performance.
The X5 probably has better bass performance given that it is DSP controlled and driven directly from the amplifier.
A lot of people, myself included, aren’t thrilled with electronics in speakers. In 5 years if you lose the plate amp, you have a bricked speaker. There isn’t anything to guarantee a replacement.
A passive version allows you to enjoy most of the X series without worrying about plate amp issues.
If you are a level headed person you can enjoy the X5. Some of us are too neurotic.
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Yes, the X4 and X5 sound very similar. Many of our X5 customers that own low powered SET need the extra high efficiency and 8 Ohm characteristics that the X5s provide. But, most audiophiles own higher power, push-pull tube or solid state amps and would prefer to have a passive version, so we produce both.
Clayton
spatialaudiolab.com
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I was really excited to see the news of the X4. I know "active is the future", but I would prefer a passive, and I'm dying to hear the X4's now if they ever come in stock at J&J in San Jose. Clayton, any chance of that?
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I was really excited to see the news of the X4. I know "active is the future", but I would prefer a passive, and I'm dying to hear the X4's now if they ever come in stock at J&J in San Jose. Clayton, any chance of that?
Yes - we plan to get J&J a pair once full production starts.
Clayton
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I have a 400 W Lyngdorf 3400 solid state amplifier (moreover with a totally adjustable frequency response) but i would never ever renounce to the active low bass woofer: the flexibility the X3 and X5 allow is stellar and i adjust them depending on the music i listen to. Since X4 and X5 are priced the same, i recommend listening prior deciding.Trust your ears. And if you can't, i would personally lean towards the active X5. Remember also that the higher sensitivity of the X5 allows an incredibly good low level listening. IMHO.
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As @squeedle,
I was really excited to see the news of the X4. I know "active is the future", but I would prefer a passive...
and am wondering if the X4's would provide an "easy load" for my small PASS amp... Clayton, any chance you could please let us know what the minimum impedance value for the X4's is?Remember also that the higher sensitivity of the X5 allows an incredibly good low level listening.
This is a very important characteristic in my book too, @StefanS! How significant is the 4dB difference in this regard, please?
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I called Spatial yesterday with the intent on ordering the X5 in Sapele. I spoke with Cloud who was very gracious with his time. He highlighted the differences between the X4 and X5. I am going to order the X4. I was told that money used for the subwoofer amp is now in better crossover parts in the X4. I was also told the woofer in the X4 is better than the X5. The X4 has only 3 feet instead of 4 and does not come with the Gaia II feet, 3 Gaia feet make it unstable. I would try to put Gaias on anyway. I can live with the tradeoff of a bit less bass extension of more refinement up the frequency range. Now the question becomes what finish to get. Spatial had a new painter that does a better job with automotive paint. The customer can now pick any automotive paint color in satin for $300.00 more than the hardwood option. Gloss is still significantly more because of the extra labor involved.
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Cloud is the man. He's preternaturally patient, gracious, and informative. I'm on the horns (I swear I was not making an audio pun) of the X4 or X5 dilemma right now. I had a good listen to the X4s with the Don Sachs Valhalla and was so impressed by the sound and moved by the music, I was ready to swap my current system for that pairing right then and there. That, of course, wasn't possible, so, rather than be content and stick with the revelatory sound I'd just heard, I decided I should give the x5s a listen. As a rule, I find Plato annoying and the Socratic method a highly questionable means of arriving at the truth, but sometimes I think he's right, that having choices is one of the primary obstacles to humanity's happiness. If Spatial Audio made only the X4 or X5, the decision would be made, the speaker purchased, happiness achieved. But, no, we must have variety, which leads to choices and forums and the neurotic dithering of perspective buyers like me. To be fair, as with the case of Rthomeint, Cloud did nudge me toward the X4, with several sensible-sounding reasons for doing so. My will to perplexity was not to be so easily deterred, however, and, for good or ill, Clayton has been good enough to find someone in my area willing to let me hear his or her (not sure which) broken-in X5s. Before I go, I just want to add how generous I've found the audio community to be in this regard. They are remarkably ready to take the time to share their experiences and do things like invite perfect strangers into their homes to help someone make a decision that has no impact on them whatsoever. I could speculate as to the reasons for this behavior, but it's probably enough just to say I'm grateful. With any luck, and a little backbone, I'll arrive at a decision and be able to contribute something actually helpful to those facing this same choice in the future. Here's to knowledge, decency, and the pursuit of happiness (cue the anthem).
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Yes - we plan to get J&J a pair once full production starts.
Clayton
Clayton, any update on this? I think J&J still only has X3 in stock.
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Clayton, any update on this? I think J&J still only has X3 in stock.
Hi Squeedle,
We have had an ongoing heavy load of X4 orders since we showed it at the Capital Audiofest last November, but we are finally almost caught up, so we build a pair for J&J as soon as possible.
Clayton
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...so we build a pair for J&J as soon as possible...
If I can audition the X3 there, will that give me a fair idea of how the X4 sounds? Anything to keep in mind?
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If I can audition the X3 there, will that give me a fair idea of how the X4 sounds? Anything to keep in mind?
For sure - they sound very similar.
Clayton
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For sure - they sound very similar.
Clayton
Clayton,
I messaged you here on Tuesday and Wednesday at your website...both same message.
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I called Spatial yesterday with the intent on ordering the X5 in Sapele. I spoke with Cloud who was very gracious with his time. He highlighted the differences between the X4 and X5. I am going to order the X4. I was told that money used for the subwoofer amp is now in better crossover parts in the X4. I was also told the woofer in the X4 is better than the X5. The X4 has only 3 feet instead of 4 and does not come with the Gaia II feet, 3 Gaia feet make it unstable. I would try to put Gaias on anyway. I can live with the tradeoff of a bit less bass extension of more refinement up the frequency range. Now the question becomes what finish to get. Spatial had a new painter that does a better job with automotive paint. The customer can now pick any automotive paint color in satin for $300.00 more than the hardwood option. Gloss is still significantly more because of the extra labor involved.
Remember when I debated with X4 or X5 there is mentioning of Gaia feet included for X4. Just checked Spatial X4 page it’s there.
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Cloud is the man. He's preternaturally patient, gracious, and informative. I'm on the horns (I swear I was not making an audio pun) of the X4 or X5 dilemma right now. I had a good listen to the X4s with the Don Sachs Valhalla and was so impressed by the sound and moved by the music, I was ready to swap my current system for that pairing right then and there. That, of course, wasn't possible, so, rather than be content and stick with the revelatory sound I'd just heard, I decided I should give the x5s a listen. As a rule, I find Plato annoying and the Socratic method a highly questionable means of arriving at the truth, but sometimes I think he's right, that having choices is one of the primary obstacles to humanity's happiness. If Spatial Audio made only the X4 or X5, the decision would be made, the speaker purchased, happiness achieved. But, no, we must have variety, which leads to choices and forums and the neurotic dithering of perspective buyers like me. To be fair, as with the case of Rthomeint, Cloud did nudge me toward the X4, with several sensible-sounding reasons for doing so. My will to perplexity was not to be so easily deterred, however, and, for good or ill, Clayton has been good enough to find someone in my area willing to let me hear his or her (not sure which) broken-in X5s. Before I go, I just want to add how generous I've found the audio community to be in this regard. They are remarkably ready to take the time to share their experiences and do things like invite perfect strangers into their homes to help someone make a decision that has no impact on them whatsoever. I could speculate as to the reasons for this behavior, but it's probably enough just to say I'm grateful. With any luck, and a little backbone, I'll arrive at a decision and be able to contribute something actually helpful to those facing this same choice in the future. Here's to knowledge, decency, and the pursuit of happiness (cue the anthem).
Admire your true spirit and do let us know your impressions and decision.
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Seems Spatial Audio has changed the pricing so that the X5 is $250 more than the X4.
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Seems Spatial Audio has changed the pricing so that the X5 is $250 more than the X4.
Right - they were both the same price, shipping with Gaia II feet included. But as noted above, the Gaia feet don't easily fit the X4, so they are no longer included.
Clayton
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Right - they were both the same price, shipping with Gaia II feet included. But as noted above, the Gaia feet don't easily fit the X4, so they are no longer included.
Clayton
Can we get a picture of the base on the X4 so we can see the feet that ship with the speaker?
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I got this covered!
The bases of the x4 are in the pics below. Appear to be ~3/4" thick steel which makes sense to add mass to the base of the speaker and keep it from tipping. Very impressive build quality on these speakers.
The Spikes or Cones are in a tripod config and you can see the rear countersunk machine screw with hex head. This makes toe in changes a breeze, just tilt the speaker back from the baffle and rotate Left to Right and drop the front back down.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238659)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238660)
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I got this covered!
The bases of the x4 are in the pics below. Appear to be ~3/4" thick steel which makes sense to add mass to the base of the speaker and keep it from tipping. Very impressive build quality on these speakers.
The Spikes or Cones are in a tripod config and you can see the rear countersunk machine screw with hex head. This makes toe in changes a breeze, just tilt the speaker back from the baffle and rotate Left to Right and drop the front back down.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238659)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238660)
Thanks for the pictures. I was trying to figure out if I could install a set of Gaia IIs I already have. With a single point contact in the back is the speaker stable?
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Could a tripod set of GAIA be done? Probably unless you have a big dog or kids hitting your speaker. I would say if that is the case shut the door because that would give me a heart-attack!
Now should you use GAIA or is the use of GAIA feet a deciding factor between an X5 and X4? I would say thrust in whatever Cloud and or Clayton advise based on your room and your gear. So if they advise X4 I see no reason why that would not be correct being that the X4 is the same to equal price of the X5.
If you have your heart set on using GAIA I would look at Herbies Giant Gliders and how they interface with the provided spikes of the X4. I am an Isoacoustics fan and have Orea under all of my gear except a Pass X250.8 and have no issues using the Herbies instead of GAIA. If you take the 2 apart and see the designs you might be more comfortable using the Herbs as well.
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Can we get a picture of the base on the X4 so we can see the feet that ship with the speaker?
I also would like to see a picture of the bottom of an X4 speaker showing the spike location/pattern.
Also, what size bolt/thread is used?
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Thanks for posting the photos - very helpful!
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You do not need more pics. See the rear hex screw that is the rear spike. The 2 front are on the left and right of the baffle. Thread pitch I dont know but the spikes are the same as on my timber nation rack and look like the Dayton Audio spikes. Probably M6 if I had to guess.
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Doesn't appear to be the most stable base.
If I do get these I will have to keep a close eye on my English Mastiff and make sure he knows his boundaries :)
He is only 4 months and already 85 pounds.
Here is a pic of his 6 year old grandpa, 'Trump' @290 lbs and 36" @ shoulder with mail carrier:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238726)
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The base is very stable for its intended purpose which has nothing to do with equestrian use.
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Here is a pic of his 6 year old grandpa, 'Trump' @290 lbs and 36" @ shoulder with mail carrier:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=238726)
OMG. I suppose an apt name for a big dog! 8)
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Yes, the X4 and X5 sound very similar. Many of our X5 customers that own low powered SET need the extra high efficiency and 8 Ohm characteristics that the X5s provide. But, most audiophiles own higher power, push-pull tube or solid state amps and would prefer to have a passive version, so we produce both.
Clayton
spatialaudiolab.com
since the x4s are 2 or 2 1/2 way, even with their fairly similar sound, which one has the ever so slidely fuller midrange with a littlebit more body?
i´ll take everything i get for my not so well recorded alternative music.
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The X4s are fairly tolerant to so so recordings. The amt crossover on the X4 is smooth and forgiving and I was able to listen to hard rock or metal when in the mood without being driven out of the room.
I have listened to Five Finger Death Punch, Alterbridge, Seven Mary Three acoustic albums and all are enjoyable.