ModWright Transporter Tube Rolling Thread.....!

grenamc · « **Reply #380 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 09:30 am »

I just thought I would pop in and say hello. I shipped my stock black Transporter to Dan today for truth modding after six months of being indecisive on the matter. So, as I am a complete tube-newb I thought I would peruse this thread a bit. I hesitate rushing straight into rolling, but whether I immediately roll or not, I thought I would say hi since this seems to kind of be the most official MW TP hangout spot I have found.

I should be seeing mine back in a couple weeks all ModWrighted out. Pretty cool that I went full served digital the same year I started playing with tubes. I have to say I am excited!

From reading around, if I want to start rolling in earnest I would be wise to pick up:
5U4G or GB Tung Sol
RCA Clearcaps
GZ34 or 5AR4 Mullard/BB etc - Cool offer you are making Rodney on your BB.
Maybe some 6H30 DR.

I have a curious question - I have recently auditioned some Salk HT3 which some of you are aware of. I have been thinking about a small bitey-nature to the midrange I experienced in the audition and wondered if I could tame it with a warmer than average tube set. It would be a set I would only pull out for recordings that need some softening, and then I would have my detail/neutral tube set for my well recorded stuff. Anyone think this is possible or am I putting too much faith in a tube change? I really don't have a clue the kind of difference to expect between tubes. Newbie Xing!!

-Michael

ted_b · « **Reply #381 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 11:30 am »

Michael,
Hi. An official WELCOME to the MW TP tube rolling club!!

Yes, tube rolling at its extreme (warm sounding rectifier and signal tubes) can really make a difference. IMO you can go too far, even. I'd start with Dan's stock tubes for at least a month, so you have a baseline. you'll be surprised at the wonderful sound. Then, if still curious (of course you will be..

) go inexpensively with some neutral-to-warmer tubes like the black plate 6Cg7's and some 5U4GB's (Sylvania or Tung Sol, both are inexpensive for what you get). Have fun, take good notes, and once again welcome to the Forum.

Philistine · « **Reply #382 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 01:01 pm »

Quote from: grenamc on 23 Oct 2008, 09:30 am

I just thought I would pop in and say hello. I shipped my stock black Transporter to Dan today for truth modding after six months of being indecisive on the matter. So, as I am a complete tube-newb I thought I would peruse this thread a bit. I hesitate rushing straight into rolling, but whether I immediately roll or not, I thought I would say hi since this seems to kind of be the most official MW TP hangout spot I have found. I should be seeing mine back in a couple weeks all ModWrighted out. Pretty cool that I went full served digital the same year I started playing with tubes. I have to say I am excited!

From reading around, if I want to start rolling in earnest I would be wise to pick up:
5U4G or GB Tung Sol
RCA Clearcaps
GZ34 or 5AR4 Mullard/BB etc - Cool offer you are making Rodney on your BB.
Maybe some 6H30 DR.

I have a curious question - I have recently auditioned some Salk HT3 which some of you are aware of. I have been thinking about a small bitey-nature to the midrange I experienced in the audition and wondered if I could tame it with a warmer than average tube set. It would be a set I would only pull out for recordings that need some softening, and then I would have my detail/neutral tube set for my well recorded stuff. Anyone think this is possible or am I putting too much faith in a tube change? I really don't have a clue the kind of difference to expect between tubes. Newbie Xing!!

-Michael

Michael, I've had a Modwright TP for coming up to a year and also have a pair of HT3's. Ted's advice, on allowing the TP to open up with the stock tubes, is spot on - you really need to allow it to open up and stabilize before making any changes.
With regard to what you hear with the HT3's, we all hear differently and I find them to be very fast, detailed and accurate - with no flattering of bad recordings. Others may equate tube rolling with tone controls, I view it a little differently and tube roll to extract as much full spectrum detail and accuracy as possible, and find that the HT3's can handle this very well. When I first had my HT3's I went through a critical period, during which I was not happy with them on certain recordings. After playing well recorded music the sound (particularly on vocals) was very smooth and realistic, consequently I concluded that I was pointing the blame at the wrong culprit - the HT2's were exposing this not creating it! This no longer bothers me as the TP source allows me to listen to these recordings at high volumes without any fatigue. I don't want to hijack Dan's circle, but I would share your HT3 concerns with Jim Salk, Jim is the first to admit that speaker design is a compromise and that no speaker is perfect. Back on the theme - I find the MWTP/HT3 combination works for me, and a good combination of power/signal tube increases the enjoyment.
I have most of the tubes on Ted's list, and I would be more than happy to loan them to you if you're interested.

rydenfan · « **Reply #383 on:** 23 Oct 2008, 03:14 pm »

Michael, it's about time you started listening to me

Glad to hear you are upgrading your stock Transporter, you will really love what it does for your system.

grenamc · « **Reply #384 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 07:51 pm »

LOL. No worries, Rydenfan. When the day comes that I fire up my modded TP and adore it you will be the first person thanked. I agree completely on the issue of waiting a bit before rolling. I was mostly using my post as an excuse to invite myself in to the MW club.

-Michael

kenreau · « **Reply #385 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 07:56 pm »

Quote from: kenreau on 9 Oct 2008, 09:12 pm

Question regarding tube matching. I bought a set of (3)each 6H30 DR's last year to put in my 36.5. It only uses two of those tubes. I have (1) single DR spare. I now own a MWI TP and am interested in exploring some of the tube rolling recommendations I have been reading here (ie using the 6H30DR's).

Do I need to look for a new "matched" pair of 6H30DR's? or just a new single tube to go with my spare 6H30? Is it desired that the two tubes are closely matched?

Thanks,
Kenreau

Just a bump - still looking for feedback on the potential need for matched output toobs for my TP.

Don't bother? Reasonable idea? Only if suffering from audiophile neurosis?

Anyone? Anyone?...

...the Great Depression, passed the... Anyone? Anyone? The tariff bill? The Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act?
-Ben Stein, Economics Teacher in Ferris Bueller's Day Off

Anyone...Anyone?

Thx,
Kenreau

ted_b · « **Reply #386 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 09:47 pm »

Yes, the signal tubes should be matched, if possible of course, but I'll leave the best answer to Dan himself. The fact that you've got three NOS DR's..well, I'd think a fourth separate NOS DR would measure close enough. Used tubes? I'd make sure they're very closely matched.

modwright · « **Reply #387 on:** 24 Oct 2008, 11:10 pm »

The closer the matched the better, but since only one triode is used per channel, you will only hear a balance shift if the tubes are WAY off from one another.

Thanks,

Dan

kenreau · « **Reply #388 on:** 25 Oct 2008, 12:12 am »

Quote from: modwright on 24 Oct 2008, 11:10 pm

The closer the matched the better, but since only one triode is used per channel, you will only hear a balance shift if the tubes are WAY off from one another.

Thanks,

Dan

D'oh! I was afraid of that. They were all reportedly NOS but I never had them measured and validated.

Thanks Dan & Ted!

thalvor · « **Reply #389 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 08:48 am »

Quote from: kenreau on 25 Oct 2008, 12:12 am

Quote from: modwright on 24 Oct 2008, 11:10 pm
The closer the matched the better, but since only one triode is used per channel, you will only hear a balance shift if the tubes are WAY off from one another.

Thanks,

Dan

D'oh! I was afraid of that. They were all reportedly NOS but I never had them measured and validated.

Thanks Dan & Ted!

I would like to share what I have learned from one of Norway’s most knowledgeable tube salesmen. He has sold a lot of 6H30DR's, and of all the 6H30DR's he has tested and sold he has never found two tubes that were not a "match" - that is within 10% variation. The rigorous quality requirements and testing of these tubes in the production process ensures very homogenous tubes.

On the 6H30DR's that has passed all tests one should find two stamps (ink marks). One of the stamps is a civilian quality control. The other is a military quality control. A lot of the 6H30DR's that are being sold doesn't have these stamps - they haven't passed the controls - and should most likely never have found their way to the market. I have bought both types of tubes and can put up some pictures of the differences between the ones with the correct stamps and those without if it is of interest.

rpf · « **Reply #390 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 08:59 am »

Definitely interested in pics.

Thanks!

kenreau · « **Reply #391 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 01:24 pm »

Quote from: thalvor on 27 Oct 2008, 08:48 am

Quote from: kenreau on 25 Oct 2008, 12:12 am
Quote from: modwright on 24 Oct 2008, 11:10 pm
The closer the matched the better, but since only one triode is used per channel, you will only hear a balance shift if the tubes are WAY off from one another.

Thanks,

Dan

D'oh! I was afraid of that. They were all reportedly NOS but I never had them measured and validated.

Thanks Dan & Ted!

I would like to share what I have learned from one of Norway’s most knowledgeable tube salesmen. He has sold a lot of 6H30DR's, and of all the 6H30DR's he has tested and sold he has never found two tubes that were not a "match" - that is within 10% variation. The rigorous quality requirements and testing of these tubes in the production process ensures very homogenous tubes.

On the 6H30DR's that has passed all tests one should find two stamps (ink marks). One of the stamps is a civilian quality control. The other is a military quality control. A lot of the 6H30DR's that are being sold doesn't have these stamps - they haven't passed the controls - and should most likely never have found their way to the market. I have bought both types of tubes and can put up some pictures of the differences between the ones with the correct stamps and those without if it is of interest.

Thanks for the heads up. Great information, please do post the photos as I suspect as the tubes get more popular and values rise, there will be some attempting to pass off the lesser quality non-DR tubes.

Thanks Thalvor!

thalvor · « **Reply #392 on:** 27 Oct 2008, 05:53 pm »

6H30DR's with and without stamps of quality control. Tube on left side with control stamps.

mikel51 · « **Reply #393 on:** 28 Oct 2008, 01:07 am »

I've purchase -DR tubes from Conus and Parts Connection. Both have the stamps, but they don't look exactly the same as the above pictures.

I've noticed that they are pretty well matched on my tube testers....but I have to kind of use the 6922 settings because there are not published settings for these tubes for tube testers.

rydenfan · « **Reply #394 on:** 30 Oct 2008, 07:16 pm »

Has anyone experimented with tube dampers?? I was thinking about picking up some of the Herbie Dampers.

Philistine · « **Reply #395 on:** 30 Oct 2008, 10:31 pm »

Quote from: rydenfan on 30 Oct 2008, 07:16 pm

Has anyone experimented with tube dampers?? I was thinking about picking up some of the Herbie Dampers.

I have a pair of Herbie Dampers that I used to use in my CDP and now use in my TP - very well made and a a great business to deal with. I honestly don't hear a difference with them though.

NickS · « **Reply #396 on:** 30 Oct 2008, 11:13 pm »

I find that evey time I focus on an aspect of my system in some interventional way, I hear a brand new and improved sound.

Just removing the cover from a component or changing a power cord works well for this purpose.

That said, I have Herbies dampers on all of my tubes. I like them a lot.

In the end, it is whatever helps you to focus.

ted_b · « **Reply #397 on:** 30 Oct 2008, 11:17 pm »

I have some Herbie Dampers I used when i had the SWL 9.0 SE pre, but i felt they mellowed out an already mellow pre. Dan, at one point felt the same (i think), but not sure what thinks about them in the TP or 36.5. I had them on the MW TP when I first got it (pics in my gallery)

but couldn't discern any difference. I may try again, though.

At one point Dan was going to try the red tube o-rings but not sure where that went.

Mr P · « **Reply #398 on:** 4 Nov 2008, 10:55 pm »

If anyone is interested, Parts Connexion has 10 pairs of Reflector DR tubes in stock as per their website.

They processed my order so it is actually nine or less pairs now. Ten days ago I received the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate. My original plan was to try it in my Yamamoto 300B amp and then try it in the Transporter. I tried it in the Yamamoto and now I can't take out. The amount of improvement over the NOS Westinghouse 5U4G that was in my amp was significant. The frequency extremes are way more extended and there is a significant increase in bass. I have approximately 100 hours on the tube. Over the next week or so I will force myself to try it in the Transporter. I will let you know how it turns out. For those of you who own the LS 36.5 this may be a tube to consider if it is compatible.

thalvor · « **Reply #399 on:** 5 Nov 2008, 08:15 am »

Quote from: Mr P on 4 Nov 2008, 10:55 pm

If anyone is interested, Parts Connexion has 10 pairs of Reflector DR tubes in stock as per their website. They processed my order so it is actually nine or less pairs now. Ten days ago I received the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate. My original plan was to try it in my Yamamoto 300B amp and then try it in the Transporter. I tried it in the Yamamoto and now I can't take out. The amount of improvement over the NOS Westinghouse 5U4G that was in my amp was significant. The frequency extremes are way more extended and there is a significant increase in bass. I have approximately 100 hours on the tube. Over the next week or so I will force myself to try it in the Transporter. I will let you know how it turns out. For those of you who own the LS 36.5 this may be a tube to consider if it is compatible.

After a long wait I finally got the Emission Labs 5U4G mesh plate too. I have only tried it out in the transporter for a couple of hours, but first impressions are VERY positive! I will come back with impressions on how it stacks up agains the mb gz34 and HW gz37 when it has settled. It is a very tall tube, which I think will preclude it from being used in the LS 36.5. Because of the height of the EML rectifier the transporter no longer fits into my rack and has to be placed on the top shelf.

Here's a pic of the EML in action: