[BrysTony]

I have been considering purchasing either a used ARC Ref 3 preamplifier or a new ARC LS 27.  I have read that some say the LS 27 is close to the Ref 5 and it is better than the Ref 3 but I find that hard to believe.  I would appreciate comment from anyone with knowledge of these two preamplifiers.  A used Ref 3 can be had cheaper than the LS 27.

Tony

[SteveFord]

I'd like to hear the answer as well.

[Elizabeth]

Well as far as money goes, buy the Ref3
The amount the Ref 3 will be worth in five years will be way closer to the current used price, than a new LS27 at new price compared to it's used value in five years.

[BrysTony]

Well as far as money goes, buy the Ref3
The amount the Ref 3 will be worth in five years will be way closer to the current used price, than a new LS27 at new price compared to it's used value in five years.

That's a good point, Elizabeth.  I am leaning toward the Ref 3 but in the marketing sheet on the LS 27, Audio Research says, "...we believe that the LS27 surpasses the performance of the REF3 in virtually every way, making it a stunning value."  I know that is a marketing pitch so I'm hoping to hear from some AC members with knowledge of the two preamps.

Tony

[SteveFord]

Nobody?
I've heard the LS 27 which sounded VERY good - especially the depth and width of the soundstage. 
Better than my Sonic Frontiers?  In those two respects, yes and by a considerable margin.
The LS 27 is also DEAD quiet.
As for LS 27 vs Ref 3, someone else will have to chime in.

[Elizabeth]

The Audio Research preamp I currently own, an Audio Research SP-15 was originally $7,000. retail. I bought mine for $1,500. a few years ago.
I plan on just keeping it around as a cool toy, being an Audio Research and all.
I have another ARC toy, An Audio Research phono, the PH-2. That toy retailed for $2,500 back in the day. That I paid $650 for.
So keep in mind the retail price vs the value for any of the products down the line. I know my stuff will always be worth what I paid, and it is pretty good stuff BTW! (especially with good power conditioning...)
If I would have bought them at retail though.. I would be pretty unhappy at this point owning them... just a point to consider.

[SteveFord]

Elizabeth makes very valid points, as always.
Having said that, I'm told that it's unprecedented for Audio Research to actually claim that one of their products is better than a higher priced, earlier model.
I tried my local dealer hoping that someone would have traded in a Ref 3 but no luck.

[jtwrace]

Elizabeth makes very valid points, as always.
Having said that, I'm told that it's unprecedented for Audio Research to actually claim that one of their products is better than a higher priced, earlier model.
I tried my local dealer hoping that someone would have traded in a Ref 3 but no luck.

Two weeks ago Taylor House in Sherrils Ford, NC had a used Ref 3.  He might still have it. 

[BrysTony]

I am still hoping for input on this one so I thought I would bump it up to the top for one last try. Anyone?.

Tony

[twitch54]

Tony, long time ARC guy here...........

while I have not directly compared the LS-27 to the Ref 3 I have compared (side by side @ Overture, Wilm, De) the Ref 3 to my current LS-26. While I was unable to match component for component with what I have in my own set up I was at lease able to come close (Class A amplifcation, Martin Logan Spire speakers).

Simply put I came away satisfied that I made the right choice in purchasing the LS-26, the difference in sound, barely perceived, if at all to my ears, combined with the sizeable $$ diff made the choice easy.

Back to your situation........if considering the purchase of a used Ref 3 I would be sure that the 'update' to it was done. I can't remeber exactly what was involved but I do remember Dave Gordon (ARC) telling me of it a couple years ago out @ RMAF. So if the choice is a non-updated high hour Ref 3 vs a new LS-27 then by all means the LS-27, with it's factory warranty ! But if your talking a low hour, updated, fresh tubes Ref 3 that could be a different matter all together.

Lastly, depending on all your components in YOUR chain, ie ........ speakers, amplification, source, room acoustics, etc will determine the merits of the Ref 3 vs the LS-27

[BrysTony]

Thanks for all the comments.  I have been going back and forth on this and have just about decided to go with the LS27.  I have heard both the LS27 and the REF3 but it has been a couple of years since I heard the REF3.  I thought both sounded great but I really can't say which was better since they were not side-by-side, time has passed and they were not in the same system.  In addition to the new warranty with the LS27, a plus for the LS27 is the new design of the front panel which matches the cosmetics of the REF40.  I think it is better looking and I suspect that future ARC equipment designs will follow this line which could cause the LS27 to hold its value a little better.

Thanks again for the comments

Tony.

[BrysTony]

I did decide to go with the ARC LS27 and it has been in my system for about a week now.  I am 75 hours into a long break in.  I am very satisfied with the direction that I went.  This preamp replaces my Bryston BP-26 which is a fine preamp but I decided that the lack of HT bypass and remote control of source selection was important to me and worth looking at something else.  The LS27 has these features plus the gain is individually adjustable for each input.  So far I am experiencing a wider, deeper soundstage and less hard edge on the highs.  On some recordings I seem to have a bit more detail, for example, the decay on piano notes.





This is my first experience with tube gear since the 1960's -- so far so good.   

Tony

[SteveFord]

Congratulations!
The soundstage with that unit is kind of astonishing, isn't it?   
Vocals just seem to come out of nowhere.

[BrysTony]

Congratulations!
The soundstage with that unit is kind of astonishing, isn't it?   
Vocals just seem to come out of nowhere.

Thanks, Steve.  Yes, astonishing is a good description of the soundstage.

Tony

[twitch54]

So far I am experiencing less hard edge on the highs.

a long standing Bryston trait IMO

[nickd]

I've been saving for a LS 27 too. I also have the same question,which one is better? My thoughts thus far have been that the Ref 3 may be able to better drive lower inpedance amps (4 tubes in the Ref 3 VS 2 tubes in the LS 27). Since my amp (PBN Audio EB SA1) has a 2.3K balanced input impedance, that might be a deciding factor. Any one using either of these to drive a tough load?

I have always loved ARC Pre amps. Owned a LS II, LS 5 MKIII and a restored SP 3A. Loved them all should have kept one of them at least.

ARC should sponser a circle on A.C., plenty of fans here. Would be nice to to get some insider input on these discussions.