TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps

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matt_garman

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1000 on: 11 Aug 2014, 12:09 am »
Of course not. I ordered a TPA3116 amp from Sure Electronics this morning. It does seem that the brightness and sibilance does subside as these amps break in. The Panasonic OSCONs really do a nice job with these Texas Instruments amps. I would try adding a couple more and see what happens. Like Salis Audio said, you'll probably get more bass, but not in the sense that it will be more boomy or flabby. This, of course, will depend on the frequency range of your speakers.

Rhing, what's the count of tpa311x amps that have passed through your hands now?  :)

The problem with these being so cheap is it makes it too easy to rationalize buying 10x more than I need.

I'm up to: two YJ blue/black, two Ybdz "Wiener", the original Sure 3110, and now on order: the new Sure 3110, Sure 3116, and two mono DUG group buy boards.



rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1001 on: 11 Aug 2014, 03:53 am »
Let's see...

3x Sure TPA3110, filter-less
3x Yuan Jing TPA3116 blue amps
1x  SMSL SA-36A Pro TPA3118 amp

1x. Sure TPA3116 on order

There's some method to the madness as these amps are affordable and really help those in experimenting without fear of losing a lot of money. I cut my teeth on modifying Sonic Impact T-amps that sold for $39, and everyone thought those were a steal.

By the way, my wife has scheduled an intercession for amplifier addiction.
« Last Edit: 11 Aug 2014, 12:38 pm by rhing »

ClefChef

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1002 on: 13 Aug 2014, 10:45 pm »
Here are couple of builds:

The first one is preamp-power amp set with remote, on/off trigger control. The preamp is based on relay stepped attenuator, the power amp on modified Audiobah board.
The second one is "integrated" version.




The diminutive 3116 is now a stand-in for LDM300b during hot summer months - the sound quality is that good.

Poultrygeist

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1003 on: 14 Aug 2014, 01:11 am »
Here's my 3116 mounted and internally wired to an Astron power supply. The Astron takes it to another level.



Poultrygeist

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1004 on: 14 Aug 2014, 02:02 am »



lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1005 on: 14 Aug 2014, 09:22 pm »
How are you guys doing the face plate labeling? It looks 'sweet' :thumb:

Poultrygeist

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1006 on: 15 Aug 2014, 09:44 am »
How are you guys doing the face plate labeling? It looks 'sweet' :thumb:

Nothing special in my case, just small stick on letters.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1007 on: 16 Aug 2014, 04:54 pm »
I just wanted to note that it is an easy and very worthwhile improvement to the YBDZ/Wiener board to swap the inductors for the Bourns 9.3A ones. I am clumsy and not very skilled at tricky manoeuvres on small PCBs, but it went smoothly. You have to bend over a couple of the capacitors which are sticking up and mount the inductors so that they sit partially above these. I stuck loads of Blu-tack on and between the inductors to provide some damping as they felt a little wobbly and I was worried this might affect the sound.

Needless to say the replacement provides a very good improvement in sound quality. I don't think the big Coilcraft ones would fit unfortunately, but these are great. I really like Elna Cerafine 220uF 25v too.  :)

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1008 on: 16 Aug 2014, 06:41 pm »
I just wanted to note that it is an easy and very worthwhile improvement to the YBDZ/Wiener board to swap the inductors for the Bourns 9.3A ones. I am clumsy and not very skilled at tricky manoeuvres on small PCBs, but it went smoothly. You have to bend over a couple of the capacitors which are sticking up and mount the inductors so that they sit partially above these. I stuck loads of Blu-tack on and between the inductors to provide some damping as they felt a little wobbly and I was worried this might affect the sound.

Needless to say the replacement provides a very good improvement in sound quality. I don't think the big Coilcraft ones would fit unfortunately, but these are great. I really like Elna Cerafine 220uF 25v too.  :)

To fit the big Coilcraft inductors, you would have to remove the neighboring output filter film caps and reinstall them from the underside of the amp. That's what I did with my Yuan Jing blue amp, and it worked out well. You might even have to move the power supply decoupling caps to the other side.

That said, the Bourns are fine inductors too and the difference between the CoilCrafts and the Bourns might not be significant enough to change them.

Please include photos to help others who might be interested in performing similar mods.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1009 on: 17 Aug 2014, 12:05 am »
Rhing, I bow to your greater modding skills - those are fine suggestions to mount the Coilcraft. I should probably be more adventurous but hey, the Bourns sound great and doing it this way was just so easy (considering big inductors/compact board).

I'll try to take some photos tomorrow but my wife has borrowed the good camera and gone away for a short trip, plus the board is mounted in a box. So photo quality might not be so helpful. Anyway, I make no claim that my way was the only or the best possible.

BTW, have you got your transformers set up yet? I don't do so well at keeping up with the diyaudio thread, but would be interested in any results relating to transformers if you don't mind posting here too.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1010 on: 17 Aug 2014, 11:24 am »
Best photos I could get without unmounting the board and I try to minimize this to avoid weakening where I have wires soldered to SMD pads to go to transformers (I don't want the pads to lift). I'm sure it could be done much neater than this, but the quality of the sound I'm getting leaves me satisfied. :D



rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1011 on: 17 Aug 2014, 12:43 pm »
Rhing, I bow to your greater modding skills - those are fine suggestions to mount the Coilcraft. I should probably be more adventurous but hey, the Bourns sound great and doing it this way was just so easy (considering big inductors/compact board).

I'll try to take some photos tomorrow but my wife has borrowed the good camera and gone away for a short trip, plus the board is mounted in a box. So photo quality might not be so helpful. Anyway, I make no claim that my way was the only or the best possible.

BTW, have you got your transformers set up yet? I don't do so well at keeping up with the diyaudio thread, but would be interested in any results relating to transformers if you don't mind posting here too.

Talk is cheap, and modding is always easier said than done. Actually, you did an admirable job fitting those Bourns inductors into such a confined space. I'm sure you'll hear the subtle improvements that the new inductors make on your amp. I find that the Bourns and CoilCraft inductors allow more fine detail to come through.

My CineMag input transformers are due to arrive in a couple days. CineMag builds these to order, so it took about two weeks for them to fulfill the order. Maybe in hindsight, I should have spent the extra money and purchased the Jensen JT-11P-1. When the CineMags come in, I will use them with my modified YJ blue amp. I'll remove the caps and solder the transformer leads into the thru-holes closest to the TPA3116 IC.

In the meantime, my new Sure TPA3116 amp arrived and I installed it on a makeshift chassis. Unfortunately, when it was time to connect the amp to the power supply, the Switchcraft 2.1mm x 5.5mm DC power connector wouldn't fit into the on board DC power connector. So I had to solder in a 2P terminal block and wire in a mating Switchcraft DC power connector. I also added four 2,200uF/25V Panasonic FM electrolytic caps for off board power supply capacitance.



I have to give this amp some time to settle in, but in stock form, it's very impressive and sounds better than the YJ blue amp in stock form. It does have slightly more hiss than my modified YJ blue amp.

Markvdv

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1012 on: 17 Aug 2014, 01:23 pm »
Worse then current YJblueblack is hardly possible, but stock Sure3116 does try hard :) I bet it is worst sounding TPA3116 completely stock, because you already had to mod speaker output :D

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1013 on: 17 Aug 2014, 02:35 pm »
Worse then current YJblueblack is hardly possible, but stock Sure3116 does try hard :) I bet it is worst sounding TPA3116 completely stock, because you already had to mod speaker output :D

You bring up a good point. If you look at the photo of the Sure TPA3116 amp in my post, my speaker connections from left to right are L CH + , L CH -,  R CH + , R CH - while the speaker connections are labeled as + , - , - , +. KJA 2013 on the diyAudio.com thread raised the issue of out-of-phase speaker connections following the board labels. Hopefully, Sure Electronics will correct this.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1014 on: 17 Aug 2014, 03:48 pm »
Talk is cheap, and modding is always easier said than done. Actually, you did an admirable job fitting those Bourns inductors into such a confined space. I'm sure you'll hear the subtle improvements that the new inductors make on your amp. I find that the Bourns and CoilCraft inductors allow more fine detail to come through.

Cheers - kind words. The improvement did not seem subtle at all. The word 'detail' does not really capture what is going on now. Every note or sound that comes through just seems incredibly rich and complex. Every recording I play is infinitely fascinating. When I started playing with these amps a few months ago (after a few years off DIY after my kid was born) I had no idea it could go to this kind of level. The only minor drawback is that the studio polish on many recordings just seems so in your face now.

But you are right... talk is cheap.  :wink:

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1015 on: 17 Aug 2014, 05:55 pm »
My expectation is that with using the CineMag input transformers, I will hear more of the music like you are. Some people on these forums abhor detailed descriptions, so I use the word "detail" in the broadest sense. With the upgrade in output filter inductors, especially with low DCR and high current capability, I hear more timbral detail, complete notes from attack to decay, and greater transients. You are correct that with the refinement in the amp's performance you can hear more shortcomings in the recording and/or mastering, if there are any. That's probably why I find myself lately purchasing high end vinyl like the Analog Productions RCA Living Stereo remastered recordings and the Music Matters Blue Note remastered 33.33 RPM LPs. However, I haven't brought myself to purchasing the Electric Recording Company LPs selling for over $600 USD.

I just attended the California Audio Show featuring some very high end gear, and my friend and I agreed that a properly implemented TPA3116 amp can stand on its own with many of the amps we heard. I think that's the draw of these amps--that they can perform at a very high level at a fraction of the cost of more expensive amplifiers. The trick is matching speakers with these amps.

Folsom

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1016 on: 17 Aug 2014, 07:26 pm »
My expectation is that with using the CineMag input transformers, I will hear more of the music like you are. Some people on these forums abhor detailed descriptions, so I use the word "detail" in the broadest sense. With the upgrade in output filter inductors, especially with low DCR and high current capability, I hear more timbral detail, complete notes from attack to decay, and greater transients. You are correct that with the refinement in the amp's performance you can hear more shortcomings in the recording and/or mastering, if there are any. That's probably why I find myself lately purchasing high end vinyl like the Analog Productions RCA Living Stereo remastered recordings and the Music Matters Blue Note remastered 33.33 RPM LPs. However, I haven't brought myself to purchasing the Electric Recording Company LPs selling for over $600 USD.

I just attended the California Audio Show featuring some very high end gear, and my friend and I agreed that a properly implemented TPA3116 amp can stand on its own with many of the amps we heard. I think that's the draw of these amps--that they can perform at a very high level at a fraction of the cost of more expensive amplifiers. The trick is matching speakers with these amps.


Do you have a pre-amp buffer? The transformer will act like a pre-amp buffer in many ways. I don't know what I'd prefer, DC coupled buffer or a transformer. There's super high end gear that uses transformers, and lots that does not.

dboy

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1017 on: 17 Aug 2014, 08:15 pm »
Personally, I'm a sucker for passive solutions but then I've never had the resources to experience any super high end stuff. As a total amateur at this, I like the idea of passive on many levels too... keeping things simple, natural sound, easier to DIY, less to go wrong over time, less parts to buy so you can afford better quality ones, etc...

Eg. I got my isolating transformers wound with OCC wire for a few quid extra. When I bought 'em a few years ago (for the DAC) I probably would not have heard a huge difference, but I'm pretty sure that decision is paying off now. The more the resolution of the system improves, the more those little decisions matter, I think, especially when the guiding philosophy is simplicity.

I could be talking out of my rear though!  :green:

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1018 on: 17 Aug 2014, 09:01 pm »
I decided I liked the sound of one of my modded YJ Blue/Black boards enough to put it in a permanent housing. My decision was the smallest possible box I could stuff it into. The Sure Amp box from PE was the ticket! The fit is extremely tight, and required a little surgery to the box for the switch and power input jack. The footprint of this finished amp is smaller than a dollar bill!

Here's the results:

Board after several mods


Case I chose


The board with all connection ready for stuffing!


The finished product






 

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #1019 on: 17 Aug 2014, 09:58 pm »

Do you have a pre-amp buffer? The transformer will act like a pre-amp buffer in many ways. I don't know what I'd prefer, DC coupled buffer or a transformer. There's super high end gear that uses transformers, and lots that does not.

I have an Audio Research LS7 tube line stage with unbalanced outputs. My objective is to use both differential inputs in each channel for better noise rejection and improved sound quality by eliminating input capacitors. dboy and another UK member of the diyAudio.com thread have had great results using transformers in their DAC or amp inputs.

I decided I liked the sound of one of my modded YJ Blue/Black boards enough to put it in a permanent housing. My decision was the smallest possible box I could stuff it into. The Sure Amp box from PE was the ticket! The fit is extremely tight, and required a little surgery to the box for the switch and power input jack. The footprint of this finished amp is smaller than a dollar bill!

Very nice work lacro, and great use of the Sure Electronics case.