New member introduction

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JayR

New member introduction
« on: 10 Oct 2022, 08:24 pm »
Hi

I am a new member and have questions about OB speakers. Please chime in.

My current system is

NAD M33 / Devialet D200
Rega RP6
Sony SCD777ES
AudioPhysic Virgo 25
Audience/Duelund/Siltech cables

We will be setting up the system in a new house we are building. It’s a modern design with open floor plan living/dining area opening into the kitchen/entry/bedroom areas.

It’s approx 25 feet wide by 35 feet long.
Ceiling height is 9.5 feet.
Concrete floors.
Steel fireplace buildup between areas designated for speakers.
Floor to ceiling windows/sliding doors along the long wall.
One floor to ceiling window and opening to the kitchen along the other long wall.

As you can guess, the room will present a good challenge to setup a stereo system. It’s not a dedicated listening room.

I am thInking of trying out OB speakers to minimize room interaction as much as possible. Unfortunately, I won’t have much options with room treatments except roll down shades for all the windows, big wool carpets on the floor, furnture, and a rack for equipment.

Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Jay

JayR

Re: New member introduction
« Reply #1 on: 11 Oct 2022, 01:27 am »
Some pictures of the new space




















AllanS

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #2 on: 11 Oct 2022, 11:47 am »
Welcome aboard!
It may present challenges but what a blank canvas to work with!  I’m guessing you have window treatments in mind. Covering the glass might be the hardest part.  I’d never want to block the views!

JLM

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #3 on: 11 Oct 2022, 12:56 pm »
Welcome!

Not sure why you believe OB would work better.  Floyd Toole (well respected acoustician) in his book "Sound Reproduction" (3rd edition) recounts his personal challenge of dealing with a room with lots of glass (and monitor style loudspeakers). 

JayR

Re: New member introduction
« Reply #4 on: 11 Oct 2022, 02:27 pm »
Welcome aboard!
It may present challenges but what a blank canvas to work with!  I’m guessing you have window treatments in mind. Covering the glass might be the hardest part.  I’d never want to block the views!

Yes. We will have drop down shades for all the windows. Not sure how they will affect the sound as they are primarily woven material for light control.

JayR

Re: New member introduction
« Reply #5 on: 11 Oct 2022, 02:32 pm »
Welcome!

Not sure why you believe OB would work better.  Floyd Toole (well respected acoustician) in his book "Sound Reproduction" (3rd edition) recounts his personal challenge of dealing with a room with lots of glass (and monitor style loudspeakers).

As I understand it, sound waves along the plane of the baffle on which the drivers are mounted are nulled out. This results in a figure 8 wave propagation for OB speakers. I guessed this would reduce reflected sound in a room like mine with a lot of reflective surfaces.

Am I misunderstanding it?

Thanks.

Tyson

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #6 on: 11 Oct 2022, 02:34 pm »
As I understand it, sound waves along the plane of the baffle on which the drivers are mounted are nulled out. This results in a figure 8 wave propagation for OB speakers. I guessed this would reduce reflected sound in a room like mine with a lot of reflective surfaces.

Am I misunderstanding it?

Thanks.

You are correct - OB's have less interaction with the side walls than box speakers.  They also have an easier time with bass in a room, too.

Mr. Big

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #7 on: 11 Oct 2022, 04:26 pm »
Like all speakers room acoustics matter, so no matter the speaker work on the listening area front and side walls. OB speakers work well in tough rooms but you still need some care to get the most out of them for what you are spending your money on. I uses Electrostatics for years and why I liked them about zero coming from the from their sides, so you could move them very close to the side walls with little bounce back from the side walls. So both speakers are good for them and the Stats exceptional in that area. I really like the OB speakers as far back as 1970's when the DQ 10 was released and from the midrang on up it was an open baffle design. Was designed to look like a Quad ESL 57 speaker and sound open as the Quad.

JayR

Re: New member introduction
« Reply #8 on: 11 Oct 2022, 04:40 pm »
Like all speakers room acoustics matter, so no matter the speaker work on the listening area front and side walls. OB speakers work well in tough rooms but you still need some care to get the most out of them for what you are spending your money on. I uses Electrostatics for years and why I liked them about zero coming from the from their sides, so you could move them very close to the side walls with little bounce back from the side walls. So both speakers are good for them and the Stats exceptional in that area. I really like the OB speakers as far back as 1970's when the DQ 10 was released and from the midrang on up it was an open baffle design. Was designed to look like a Quad ESL 57 speaker and sound open as the Quad.

Understood. In my case, I don’t think the distance to the sidewalls are that much of an issue as it is a large room. I would expect at least 5-6 ft from the speaker to the sidewalls. My issue might be all the reflective surfaces on the sidewall.

DaveWin88

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #9 on: 11 Oct 2022, 04:44 pm »
My setup has one speaker 2 foot from one sidewall and 5 from the other, and it just works. My box speakers always had cancellation issues. So yeah OB all the way.

 btw GIK does sell free standing treatment that could be used when doing some critical listening, then stored away?

JayR

Re: New member introduction
« Reply #10 on: 11 Oct 2022, 06:44 pm »
My setup has one speaker 2 foot from one sidewall and 5 from the other, and it just works. My box speakers always had cancellation issues. So yeah OB all the way.

 btw GIK does sell free standing treatment that could be used when doing some critical listening, then stored away?

Freestanding treatment is definitely something I could look into. We could move it in/out as you mentioned.

jnschneyer

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #11 on: 11 Oct 2022, 07:24 pm »
Welcome.  My own experience leads me to say do not drive yourself crazy over your room and its acoustic inadequacies.  If your room was exceptionally small, then, yes, you'd have to think more carefully about speaker type and size.  Fortunately, you don't have that issue.  Its size alone will mitigate (in my experience) the fireplace, lack of symmetry, and abundance of glass.  My current room is approximately 15' x 30' with 9' ceilings.





I'm including a picture so you can see the room's many acoustic sins.  As you can see, it is asymmetrical, there is a big window behind the speakers, a glass-doored cabinet between the speakers (albeit somewhat recessed), a largish tv on the wall to the side of the right speaker, a small false wall behind the left, an open stairway, and nooks, crannies, and hard surfaces abound, yet the speakers do all the things good speakers in good environments are reputed to do.  They image with scale, clarity, and detail; the soundstage is wide, high, and deep; they reveal all sorts of micro detail without ever sounding dry or clinical; the bass is full and rich without being exaggerated or boomy; the mids are mellifluous; the highs are clear and bright or sweet as the instrument or music calls for; and, more than anything, they sound like music, they move me as music should.  They sound, in a word, if I may use such a non-descriptive adjective, quite literally, wonderful, in that they truly evoke a sense of wonder.  It may be that, were I able to amend all the room's issues, my speakers would shine even more brightly (that's a lame metaphor, not a description of their actual sound).  Maybe.  However, I can tell you with absolute certainty, however glorious they might sound in an acoustically ideal environment, they sound beautiful in their current compromised setting.  My previous speakers, Dynaudio Heritage Specials, a small stand-mount box speaker, in this same room, also sounded great.  The man who built my amp also has his X5s in a considerably larger, asymmetrical, open-floor-plan room with very large floor to ceiling windows looking out on a spectacular mountain range, the room filled with the accoutrement of living (as one would expect in a living room), and he assures me his system also sounds great.  My long-winded point in all this is to say, if you listen to the strictures of hardcore devotees of sound propagation and acoustic mitigation, you can drive yourself bonkers fretting over your room's supposed shortcomings, or even (let's give science its due) actual, measurable, shortcomings.  Don't.  Your room is beyond fine.  It's even good, and will accommodate whatever speakers you eventually put in it.  Fill the room with the stuff of living.  I strongly believe, whether we're sitting attentively still or moving about the room otherwise engaged, the music should be where we live, among the things and people that make up our lives.  Not everyone will agree with this.  Regardless, Spatial speakers will sound excellent in your room, as will box speakers.  As I said, I loved the Dynaudios in my room.  I prefer the Spatials because they do everything the Dynaudios did with the addition of a level of scale and openness the Dynaudios couldn't achieve.  In either case, my room proved to be no hindrance, and neither will yours.       

« Last Edit: 11 Oct 2022, 08:32 pm by jnschneyer »

JayR

Re: New member introduction
« Reply #12 on: 11 Oct 2022, 09:54 pm »
Welcome.  My own experience leads me to say do not drive yourself crazy over your room and its acoustic inadequacies.  If your room was exceptionally small, then, yes, you'd have to think more carefully about speaker type and size.  Fortunately, you don't have that issue.  Its size alone will mitigate (in my experience) the fireplace, lack of symmetry, and abundance of glass.  My current room is approximately 15' x 30' with 9' ceilings.





I'm including a picture so you can see the room's many acoustic sins.  As you can see, it is asymmetrical, there is a big window behind the speakers, a glass-doored cabinet between the speakers (albeit somewhat recessed), a largish tv on the wall to the side of the right speaker, a small false wall behind the left, an open stairway, and nooks, crannies, and hard surfaces abound, yet the speakers do all the things good speakers in good environments are reputed to do.  They image with scale, clarity, and detail; the soundstage is wide, high, and deep; they reveal all sorts of micro detail without ever sounding dry or clinical; the bass is full and rich without being exaggerated or boomy; the mids are mellifluous; the highs are clear and bright or sweet as the instrument or music calls for; and, more than anything, they sound like music, they move me as music should.  They sound, in a word, if I may use such a non-descriptive adjective, quite literally, wonderful, in that they truly evoke a sense of wonder.  It may be that, were I able to amend all the room's issues, my speakers would shine even more brightly (that's a lame metaphor, not a description of their actual sound).  Maybe.  However, I can tell you with absolute certainty, however glorious they might sound in an acoustically ideal environment, they sound beautiful in their current compromised setting.  My previous speakers, Dynaudio Heritage Specials, a small stand-mount box speaker, in this same room, also sounded great.  The man who built my amp also has his X5s in a considerably larger, asymmetrical, open-floor-plan room with very large floor to ceiling windows looking out on a spectacular mountain range, the room filled with the accoutrement of living (as one would expect in a living room), and he assures me his system also sounds great.  My long-winded point in all this is to say, if you listen to the strictures of hardcore devotees of sound propagation and acoustic mitigation, you can drive yourself bonkers fretting over your room's supposed shortcomings, or even (let's give science its due) actual, measurable, shortcomings.  Don't.  Your room is beyond fine.  It's even good, and will accommodate whatever speakers you eventually put in it.  Fill the room with the stuff of living.  I strongly believe, whether we're sitting attentively still or moving about the room otherwise engaged, the music should be where we live, among the things and people that make up our lives.  Not everyone will agree with this.  Regardless, Spatial speakers will sound excellent in your room, as will box speakers.  As I said, I loved the Dynaudios in my room.  I prefer the Spatials because they do everything the Dynaudios did with the addition of a level of scale and openness the Dynaudios couldn't achieve.  In either case, my room proved to be no hindrance, and neither will yours.     

Awesome setup.

Thank you for commenting about your system, room, and experience. Gives me hope that good sound might be possible. Much appreciated.

Manolo

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #13 on: 12 Oct 2022, 12:13 am »
I think the Spatial Audio speaker will work there perfectly. I have An open space -very similar to yours- living area, where I move my stereo rig when I have audio friends over and works wonderfully. HI have the M4 Triodes. And if you visit Linkiwitz Lab site you will also see that their listening room is very similar to yours. They also produce OB loudspeakers. And btw, that house looks super and obvious you used an Architect with good taste.

Manolo

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #14 on: 12 Oct 2022, 12:28 am »


Here is one photo of Linkiwitz house where thy showcase their speakers.

DaveWin88

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #15 on: 15 Oct 2022, 04:40 pm »

Here is one photo of Linkiwitz house where thy showcase their speakers.
This picture speaks volumes on the whole OB benefits. I like the design behind Linkiwitz. I'm guessing they sound pretty amazing?

Tyson

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #16 on: 15 Oct 2022, 04:53 pm »
This picture speaks volumes on the whole OB benefits. I like the design behind Linkiwitz. I'm guessing they sound pretty amazing?

The Linkwitz speakers do sound very good (like all well designed OB speakers).  However, the Spatial speakers are quite a step up in sound quality. 

DaveWin88

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Re: New member introduction
« Reply #17 on: 15 Oct 2022, 09:47 pm »
Lets not even talk about the price :)