[robcentola]

Hi all,

I'm asking this on the Salk board as I feel like this side is home and I get  the best advice. I'm pretty sure what the response will be, but I'm lost in the idea of my next move.

Right now I have my loved ST's, with the Peachtree 220/NovaPre. I also have a Rythmik F12 and an Oppo 103. I'm stuck on where the next upgrade is going. I'm set with Salk, but I'm not sure if I should change something else first. For me the VST's are next, without a doubt, but maybe switch something out first? These are my options I've been researching:

1. Get the Veracity St's first.

2. Upgrade the amp. I was thinking either AVA Synergy 240, D-Sonic Mono's, Parasound A21, or maybe W4S?. I would like to stay around $2000-$2500ish.

3. Switch the NovaPre to a DAC with a preamp. Mostly, I'm looking at the the Benchmark Dac2. Again, around 2 grand.

4. Get another F12. The cheapest route.

5. I'm planning on the new Auralic Aries after we hear some reviews, or maybe the updated Salk Streamer. Not sure about that and I'm thinking any of the above will be more of a noticeable improvement.

The system sounds really good, but this hobby is a bit obsessive and constantly on a path for improvement. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks!

[Meicheng]

Upgrading your power amp to a stereo N-Core amp would probably be a pretty significant difference.  James Romejyn here on the boards has an N-Core build service and does an excellent job for little $$.  I tried some of the other Class D amps you mention based on Icepower modules, and would definately recommend the N-Core over any of those.  Good Luck. 

[guf]

I used a dac with volume control for years and was very happy. I would suggest dac and a separate preamp but getting a great dac with volume and then adding a preamp after is an option.

[ricardojoa]

The biggest jump IMO would be speaker and another rythmik.

[Austin08]

I have been swapping in and out a lot of stuffs in my system during the course of +20 years in this hobby. IMO, speakers and preamp would make the most significan impact that you can feel and hear. Of course, your mileage may be different.

[robcentola]

I agree with everyone! Ha. This is not an easy task.

[mresseguie]

Rob,

I have a two or three suggestions.

The first is to put that $2k to $2500 into a separate bank account and add money to it every month until you have enough to buy your dream speakers (SS8, E3, etc.). You'd have to suffer with waiting, but the improvement would be significant. Of course, if you're at all like me, you rush out and spend money on an upgrade as soon as it is feasible. 

The second is to partly agree with ricardojoa. Get another Rythmik sub. I've read too many reviews and personal commentaries to not suggest this. I will buy 2 double 8 Rythmik (or GR Research) subs later this summer. My son will assume ownership of my current sub when he moves to his new apartment in September. (He thinks he's getting the best deal, but I know better.) 

The third is to buy a Pi Audio UberBUSS with the cryogenically treated receptacles for ~$1100 if you do not already own a power contioner. I bought this puppy 2 months ago, and it made a huge difference in my music. I posted in the Pi Audio thread about my experience.

Okay, here's a fourth idea: Combine both two and three. Get your second sub and an UberBUSS.

Best of luck.

Michael

[Early B.]

Start with the sources because they affect every other component. Replace the 103 and also buy the best DAC you can afford. 

[WGH]

Upgrading your power amp to a stereo N-Core amp would probably be a pretty significant difference.

Yes, you are right. The NCore would make a significant difference - but in the wrong direction. Salk speakers and Ncore amps do not mate well. Been there, done that.

Go with the AVA amp, your ST's will sound like you just spent $5000. Unless you have a huge room you will find you won't need the 2nd sub.

Then work on the front end as money allows. I would go for a PS Audio Perfectwave before the Benchmark but at this price level it is imperative to try both on a 30 day trial to see which one you like. The AVA amp also has a 30 day trial, that should help too. If you time your deliveries right you can mix and match to see which has the most bang for the buck.

Wayne

[kingdeezie]

Not to insult anybody here, because there have been reasonable suggestions all around, but where are the room treatment recommendations? 

The OP has a set of nice speakers and electronics, why upgrade those things at all if the room is left untreated?

More important than anything IMO is speaker/room interaction. The source, amps, and tertiary equipment don't mean anything if the speakers aren't being accurately represented in the listening space.

Not for nothing,  if I were looking at upgrading a component with thousands of dollars at my disposal,  and my room wasn't treated, I would get with GIK, and get some advice on room treatments that fit my budget/decor/WAF....

[fsimms]

Yes, you are right. The NCore would make a significant difference - but in the wrong direction. Salk speakers and Ncore amps do not mate well. Been there, done that.

Wayne

In spite of the fact that I love my NCores and think they are the best amps around, I do agree with you Wayne that the NCore might be the wrong way to go.  The NCore is very neutral and clean.  If you have fantastic sounding preamp, Dac and speakers then the NCores will be the best way to hear their full glory.  The only problem is that fantastic electronic equipment is more than most of us are willing to spend on a system.  The NCores, with most reasonably priced gear, will just show their limitations.  Salk speakers will pass through what you put in them.

Bob

[Carl V]

First question I have is what do you want to change & why?
Better resolution...sound stage...dynamics... What do you feel
is lacking?
So, first off your speakers are darned good. However they are
designed to a strict price point...as are all speakers...
so compromises were made, choices made. And has just recently been mentioned
Room treatments....speakers & gear drive the room. You have M-T-M monopoles.
They have a 3/4" tweeter & two decent mid-woofers 5 1/2 inches??? and you have a sub.
Have you done some REW measurements...how is your Sub integrated?

If you provide some answers....the circle as well as builder can reasonably make some
suggestions.

[Frans]

Start with the sources because they affect every other component. Replace the 103 and also buy the best DAC you can afford.

Replace the 103 with what, a 105? It will take a lot more money to improve on that...

[jarcher]

Start with the sources because they affect every other component. Replace the 103 and also buy the best DAC you can afford.

Ding ding ding!  This is the correct answer. The weakest link at this moment is the Oppo 103 as player / DAC. Your DAC idea is on the right track : a benchmark dac2 or if you want something a touch warmer, a mytek 192. Even warmer & cheaper, the TEAC UD 501. For the peachtree gear you have, I'd go for a benchmark dac2 new or used. But don't use it as a preamp : just as a DAC with your existing Peachtree pre. Even good DAC / preamps I've heard are not as good as even a modest preamp. And I've listened extensively to ones such as the Bel Canto units and the Auralic Vega (which is 32 bits). Get the benchmark dac2l (?) - the version without the headphone amp / pre and save yourself $200. Or better yet a used dac2 and save yourself even more and spend the difference on some decent power and interconnect cables.

Some will always argue that speakers need to come first, but you have good speakers. What comes next almost always in my experience is that source.  And in particular digital sources have made the greatest recent improvements. I was stunned how much better my bel canto was vs my Apollo CD player - and the difference was even more dramatic between the BC & the Auralic Vega I'm using now. I have newer Magnepan 1.7s, but my preamp and amp are 20+ year old Conrad Johnson. Well made amps and preamps don't have to be recycled as quickly as digital sources to achieve better sound.

[robcentola]

Holy cow. Thanks guys. This is great advice.

The 103 is nice and serves a lot of purpose. I use the DAC in the NovaPre, but I've been reading so much about DSD that It feels like I'm missing out, hence the new DAC. I also use it for streaming wireless from my laptop via Jriver, or gizmo from my phone. It works flawlessly and sounds pretty darn good. I'm also considering the new Auralic Aries, but to take advantage of the DSD functions......the DAC comes up again.

My room is not ideal. I got the sub for that reason and it has helped, but after everything I read, dual subs would be the way to go. However, that purchase will definitely come with objections from my wife, although she admits my obsession serves her as well.

With the way the room is set up, and with windows everywhere, it's tough for treatments (let alone WAF). I'm positive there would be a great improvement with some bass traps and absorption at least at the first reflection points, so that's a little frustrating. The highs and lows are inconsistent at different volumes and I think treatments would help.

I like the idea of holding out and creating a "dream speaker" account. Hell, I'm already 1/4 the way there, but this two grand is burning a whole in my pocket. I'm positive you all know what I mean.

Please don't get me wrong; I think my system sounds great, but I know it could sound better. SOMETIMES, it does become slightly fatiguing at the high-end and I associate that with either the DAC or the room (or both). We're renting a house, so I have to also consider the next room when we purchase a house. Yes, acoustics are going to play a major role in that decision, so I'm trying to look ahead too.

Again, thanks for everyones input. I'm not sure if I'm any closer to making a decision, but I realize I have more to think about. In the meantime, I'll throw another 150 bucks into that savings account, so maybe I'll be one step closer to the SS8!

[robcentola]

Carl- I set the sub up by ear. Crossed at about 50, but 80 if we ever use the system for movies. I find myself adjusting settings all the time depending on the music. Sometimes too much, other times not enough. I think I might just pay someone locally to run REW, since I'm even more clueless with that software. I live in a dinky NC mountain town (Boone) but I think there's a guy that can do it for me.

Little by little I'm learning. Thanks, in a big part, to the good folks here on AC.

[DS-21]

Yes, you are right. The NCore would make a significant difference - but in the wrong direction. Salk speakers and Ncore amps do not mate well. Been there, done that.

That's not really possible. Salks are fairly standard speakers to drive, and the Ncore is a standard low source impedance amp with plenty of voltage swing. Somebody did something dumb in setup if there were any big differences heard.

All the electronics are a dead end in terms of upgrades, though.

IMO, the first upgrade should be a decent measurement setup, such as FuzzMeasure Pro with a calibrated measurement mike, Omnimic, etc. Following that would be a triplet of better subs, with a miniDSP to control them. I suppose more Rythmiks would be an upgrade, too, but I'd prefer to start with better units.

[guf]

I had to do this. I quickly placed my home theater Song Towers in with my main system. I'm using a Mac mini, Lampizator Big 7, Lampizator Pre and powering with a First Watt SIT2. 10 watts!!  Call me crazy but it sounds amazing.  (Listening to Hood from the Gorge last summer.) I can't imagine needing any more bass or volume as my floors are shaking. I do have a lot of bass trapping, and i agree with others this could be the best money spent. After that a great source, good clean class A power will make a huge difference.

For reference I had SS8's with w4s sx1000s AND i had HT2tls with an AVA 400r. My sound with the above set up is on par with either of the "better" speakers. Honestly even better to me now.  Tone, soundstage, depth will outweigh power, bass and measurements. It's a much more sustainable long term listening habit or appreciation from my experience.  But we all have our own paths and i needed to go through what i did to get to where i am. And most importantly we all have our own taste.

[mresseguie]

I had to do this. I quickly placed my home theater Song Towers in with my main system. I'm using a Mac mini, Lampizator Big 7, Lampizator Pre and powering with a First Watt SIT2. 10 watts!!  Call me crazy but it sounds amazing.  (Listening to Harry Hood from the Gorge last summer.) I can imagine needing any more bass or volume my floors are shaking. I do have a lot of bass trapping, and i agree with others this could be the best money spent. A great source, good clean class A power will make a huge difference.

For reference I had SS8's with w4s sx1000s AND i had HT2tls with an AVA 400r. My sound with the above set up is on par with either of the "better" speakers. Honestly even better to me now.  Tone, soundstage, depth will outweigh power, bass and measurements. It's a much more sustainable long term listening habit or appreciation from my experience.  But we all have our own paths and i needed to go through what i did to get to where i am. And most importantly we all have our own taste.

 

Guf,

Someday, somewhere I will hear those speakers....sigh....

[mick wolfe]

The ST/Rythmik combo is just fine. You can upgrade a long way in source components and amplification before they would become the weak link.