[EMC]

Gentlemen,
I hate for my first post to be a plea for help but I just found this forum and everyone here seems very knowledgeable. I’m interested in the 626R’s and I have a few questions:
-   How are the 626R’s for movies and multi-channel music?
-   I sit 9’ from the LCR array. If this too far?
-   The mains will about 8’ apart. Is this too far?
-   What type of SPL’s can I expect?
I know these questions can only truly be answered by in-home usage but I’d like to get an idea from people who know and hopefully Mr. Cheyney himself. My current system is as follows:
   -     Lexicon MC-8
-   Paradigm Active speaker system (7 speaker set-up)
-   HSU Research TN1220HO sub (250 watt amp)
-   Sony SCD-C222ES sacd player
-   Panasonic RP56k dvd player
-   SE 13HD lcd projector (Da-Lite HCCV screen)

My tastes are moving from a 85/15 HT/music system to a 55/45 one since I started collecting sacd’s and while I really love the muscular sound of the Actives for movies and enjoy them for music too, I’m starting to want that magic in my music that I’ve only heard in a few systems (Grand Utopias’ and the Legend Audio system are two that come to mind to illustrate that I know I can find that feeling at wildly varying price points). I can gather from everything I’ve been reading that the 626R’s would probably improve my music enjoyment; I just want to know if I’d be losing any oomph when watching films before I buy. Thanks.

[John Casler]

- How are the 626R’s for movies and multi-channel music?

Hi EMC,

The 626Rs with FST tweeter are one of the best Multi-channel music speakers you can consider.  I have a VMPS 7.1 system with Ribbons on the 5.1 portion (rear surrounds are Tower IIs) and I have never heard a better sound.

- I sit 9’ from the LCR array. If this too far?

9 feet is fine for HT and Multi-channel music (personally I like 7'-8' nearfield for 2 channel music)

- The mains will about 8’ apart. Is this too far?

I have spaced the 626Rs over 10 feet apart (and prefer to do so) with the 7 foot listening distance I mentioned earlier and if properly converged they offer a complete and very cohesive soundstage from speaker to speaker.

- What type of SPL’s can I expect?

Once broken in, I have played mine at 98db regularly and they loaf along.  I haven't explored the limits, but if you want really high SPLs you might consider the RM2s as mains.

Also their abilities are certainly power dependent.  I was using a 60wpc Bryston and acheived the high 90s before the little clipping LEDs began to dance.

I would use at least 150wpc and more if you can afford it.

My current system is as follows:
- Lexicon MC-8
- Paradigm Active speaker system (7 speaker set-up)
- HSU Research TN1220HO sub (250 watt amp)
- Sony SCD-C222ES sacd player
- Panasonic RP56k dvd player
- SE 13HD lcd projector (Da-Lite HCCV screen)

My tastes are moving from a 85/15 HT/music system to a 55/45 one since I started collecting sacd’s and while I really love the muscular sound of the Actives for movies and enjoy them for music too, I’m starting to want that magic in my music that I’ve only heard in a few systems (Grand Utopias’ and the Legend Audio system are two that come to mind to illustrate that I know I can find that feeling at wildly varying price points). I can gather from everything I’ve been reading that the 626R’s would probably improve my music enjoyment; I just want to know if I’d be losing any oomph when watching films before I buy.

Although you didn't mention the size of your room which would make a big difference, I would suggest you seriously consider the the RM2s for mains the LRC for center and the 626Rs as surrounds if you have a large room.

If you have a small to medium sized room the 626Rs all the way around is a very balanced system.

The first thing I thought upon listening to mine was how great a HT would be with 5-7 of them playing at one time.

All the best,

[Sedona Sky Sound]

Hello EMC,
An array of five 626Rs is perfect for both movies and multi-channel audio. It would also be quite good for 2 or 3 channel stereo/trinaural but not quite as good as some of the larger RM series speakers. As for your spacing, the room will have some effect on it but your distances look fine. In my demo room, the tweaters of my 626Rs are 8'2" apart and the center channel is 10'4" from my nose. Some people prefer to be a little closer so that they are more in the Nearfield but that is not manditory (and has some tradeoffs).

As for sound pressure, you can reasonably expect 95+dB at you listening position with no distortion. Most of the "oomph" from movies is from bass so if want a system that will knock the breath out of you, then add in a Larger sub or two  

If you send me a Private Message with your e-mail address, I will send you a link to the private Customer Support section of my website. On it you will find information on room set-up standards, room design priorities, speaker selection suggestions, detailed VMPS set-up instructions, etc. It has lots of diagrams and hi-rez pictures so not something I would suggest reviewing via dial-up, but it should be fine via DSL or cable modem.

Best of luck.

Julian
www.sedonaskysound.com

[EMC]

Thanks guys. My room is small to medium sized (14.5’x18’) with 8’ ceilings. The baffles of my Active/40’s are 2’ from the front wall and I have Active ADP/450’s surrounding my couch.

I love my HSU sub so it stays.

[John Casler]

Have you considered what amps you will be using?

If you like the "powered speaker" set up and don't want to invest a lot in new speaker cables, Bryston makes some "PowerPac" amps that can be bolted right on the back of most any speaker.  

And they accept both balanced and regular output.


They are very cool.

http://www.bryston.ca/pp120cov.html

[EMC]

Hopefully, a Citation 7.1 for the LCR array. If not, maybe (2) 5.1's to bi-amp the front three.

[wshuff]

Hi EMC,

It sounds like you are contemplating a setup that is very similar to what I am using right now.  I currently have an MC-8 along with 626R fronts and an LRC center.  I'm powering them with a Sherbourn 5/1500, which is 200 wpc into 8ohms.  I have dual SV subs to handle the bass.  My listening postiion is about 9 feet from the left and right, about 11 feet from the center.  My room is a little larger than yours at 24.5 ft long, 18.5 feet wide, and about 8.5 ft high.  I've never felt that I'm wanting for volume, and can run everybody out of the room with the SPL if I want to, but I've never felt like the 626R/LRC combo was straining.  That wasn't the case with my prior setup, Def Tech BP10s and a CLR1000.

If your fear is that you'll be giving something up with movies, whether in output or whatever, I'd put that fear to rest.  The VMPS speakers offer a level of clarity and detail that I didn't have before, but they don't miss anything in terms of output compared to my prior setup, especially with the subs handling the low bass.  With your Hsu sub you'd be in the same boat, and I guess would be able to get even more oomph with your smaller room.

[EMC]

Glad to see another Lex guy in here. I thought they only allowed the tube pre-amp types around these parts

[wshuff]

Shhh!  You don't want them to hear, do you?     They might kick us out of the circle.  

Enjoy the Lex, and good luck with your decision.  I've been more than pleased with my VMPS ribbons.

[Wayne1]

I have an all ribbon 5.1 channel HT system as well.

626Rs with Auricaps and FST for LR mains, LRC for center and 626Rs with Auricaps and spiral ribbon for rears.

I use a HIGHLY modified Lexicon DC-1 v4 for most of the HT stuff. I also use a SONY TA-P9000ES for switching and level control with SACD. I am currently using a Parasound HCA-1206 for the speakers ( I DO have tube mono-blocks on order ) The sub is the VMPS Larger powered by a QSC DCA3422 running bridged.

There is plenty of volume and house shaking, gut thumping, pant leg flapping bass

The clarity and definition make all HT programing so much more enjoyable.

When I watch a hockey game, the slap of the stick to the puck and the sound of the puck sliding on ice is really amazing.

DVD concerts bring you right into the audience.

In a room of the size you mention, I personally cannot think of a set of better sounding speakers.

[EMC]

Wayne1,
How do you "modify" a DC-1?

Can any of you guys give me any idea about the improvements you hear with this "FST" tweeter vs. the spiral ribbon tweet? I may have a chance to purchase a pair with auricaps and soundcoat. Can anybody speak on the real world performance.

Thanks for all feedback fellas. Very grateful.

[Wayne1]

I replaced all the audio op-amps with Burr-Brown OPA-2604s, coupling caps with Black Gates, DC power supply caps with Black Gates, and reworked the digital input circuit with upgraded caps and resistors. I also applied Tube-O-Lator to the analog and D/A chips.

The FST is MUCH sweeter. The crossover is lowered to 7khz. There is a bit less "beaming", the dispersion is wider. It is an extremely beneficial upgrade. Real world benefits are it sounds a lot more like music across a wider sweet spot.

[Tyson]

A "bit" less beaming?  A LOT less beaming.  The FST tweeter is absolutely worth it if you are going to have a large area to cover.  The spiral tweeter is fine if you are going to be sitting in the sweet spot, but for a large area, the FST 626R really kicks ass.

[jasonc]

I have to agree.  I listen to a lot of music off-axis from my computer approx. 4 ft. outside of the left main and don't seem to be losing a great deal sound wise .  
The 626s being directional was a concern for me before making the plunge to get them.  I was almost prepared to adjust my listening habits for them.  I'm more than happy to report in my room, which is not small by any means (27Wx16Dx10.5H),  i do believe.. due to the FST upgrade they really do sound exceptional from any point in the room! I also don't seem to lose as much as I thought when standing.. my measurement, 6'2".  

BTW, I've had my pair a little over a week (still waiting for the "bearded" Sound Anchor stands), feeding them FM frequency throughout the day while at work and through the night, and and they're really starting to settle down now.  All I can say at this point is I don't care how they look !  .. which, btw is not too shabby..

[John Casler]

I have to agree.  I listen to a lot of music off-axis from my computer approx. 4 ft. outside of the left main and don't seem to be losing a great deal sound wise .  
The 626s being directional was a concern for me before making the plunge to get them.  I was almost prepared to adjust my listening habits for them.  I'm more than happy to report in my room, which is not small by any means (27Wx16Dx10.5H),  i do believe.. due to the FST upgrade they really do sound exceptional from any point in the room! I ...

As Jason says the "off axis" response (sometimes erroneously refered to as "sweet spot") is certainly very good over most of the room.  It is just not as good as the on axis response, but it is the "difference" of the incredible "on axis" sound that makes the difference sound so great.

And as I continue to "Champion", reduced dispersion as a "GOOD" thing, if your an audiophile.

All the talk about "small sweet spot" is an exercise in incorrect use of terms.

The "sweet spot" is the precise point of listening where the balanced convergence of two stereo signals produce the "Sonic Hologram".

No "direct radiating" speaker on the planet has a a bigger spot than that precise spot.    Any movement from side to side "changes" the balance of that converging signal and the brain cannot reconstitute it.   It just cannot

The only way to enlarge the spot, is to use reflected sound ala Bose 901s,  and the room reflections. (Or build a Huge system as in an auditiorium)

(another solution is the TriNaural Processor, but even that works best in the sweet spot.  It just retains soundstage when moving off center)

The "Sonic Hologram" is the Psycho Acoustic Phenoma produced when the brain senses two sonic signals and assembles them into the original event as if the ears where in the position of the microphones at the original event.

This includes the perception of 3-D space, depth, width and height.  It also includes the blackness or silence between sounds, when present, or a wall or blanket of sound when that too is present.

It is "NOT" being able to hear the full frequency response off axis, as it is many times portrayed.

Sure it would be nice to hear it all from every concievable position (even when having my Wheaties each morning ), but not at the expense of reduced "sweet spot" performance, and too much dispersion "DOES" soften imaging and "blurs" focus, blackness and edges.   It also bounces all over the room "fouling" the image even more.

Have you ever ridden "sidecar" on a MotorCycle?  It has some of the character of the main seat, but to expect the same thing "just ain't happening".  

Get an SUV if you want to seat 6, but if you want the ultimate in sonic performance, strap yourself into the nearfield, on axis, convergence of the VMPS, turn up the SPLs and get ready        

[WG]

I have a 7-speaker Paradigm Active system.  I also have a 626R that I purchased soon after they were released to use as a center for a pair of Newform 645's.  My 626R then did not have any cap upgrade or tweeter upgrade.  Though I did not do so, I would recommend the Soundcoat option.  Much has been made of dispersion of the VMPS ribbons, but for my usage, I did not find this to be an issue.  I thought dispersion was more than acceptable for my usage and thought it was good for at least 45 degrees off center.  Very possibly home theater is more forgiving of the "sweet spot" issue than 2-channel.  I have been using an MC-1.  Your MC-8 has much more flexibility with bass management.  I found the midrange very special with the 626R.  The speaker is very smooth.  I have been fond of my Actives.  Though I have added several different speakers along the way, I have been reluctant to let them go.  For voice reproduction, string, and instrumental, I think the 626 R is clearly superior.  There is warmth and possibly more impact with the Actives in the lower midrange upper bass area.  I crossed the 626R at 120 Hz to better integrate with the Newforms, so cannot comment on the lower bass extension.  Again, your bass management flexibility should assist you if this is an issue.  Overall, I would highly recommend the 626R.  

Regards,
Will

[EMC]

Thanks Will (Gibbons right?). I was hoping to hear from you as you're the only person I know of who frequents these forums and who can comment from first-hand experience on the abilities of both these speaker brands in combination with Lexicon processing. I also feel like you would better understand what it is I'm looking for and not getting from the Actives vs. the 626R's. Believe me, it's tough for me to let them go too but I'm in the process of selling them already. What kind of amplification are you using? Thanks for responding.

[WG]

Yes, that's me.  I had picked up a Cinepro 3K6SE Gold.  Previous to that, I used an Onkyo 777 receiver that I had previous to getting the Lexicon.  The Cinepro did very well with the 626R, but the Newforms did not.  The Newforms did not have the cap upgrade or other tweaks often recommended by users. and became bright and a bit brittle with the Cinepro.  There are some experienced advocates here for tubes, at least on the top end, with these ribbons.  You may want to see if you can audition a dynamic hybrid like Llano.  

As noted earlier, I think you may want to at least check into the Soundcoat.  I had my 626R on top of a RPTV, upside down.  I placed upside down to get the tweeter-ear orientation.  Even upside down, the angle was precariously steep.  I did detect some boxy sound, which I also had with the Active CC center.  This may be somewhat due to the screen reflection, especially with steep angle, but the Soundcoat may be a good idea.  There seems to be a good consensus that one of the cap upgrades and the tweeter upgrade are also very good ideas.  If you are looking at a complete system based on these, I don't know that I would go for all the upgrades for the surrounds, but would probably go for them for the front speakers.  The 626R is rear ported, as are the Actives.  You mentioned a few feet separation from the front wall on your speakers.  I found the Actives did much, much better if you could give them more room from the front wall and from the sides.  If possible, you may want to try extending any of your rear ported speakers a little further into the room.

Good luck,
Will

[WG]

EMC,

I have sent you a private message.

Will

[EMC]

Thanks fellas. I ordered the 626R's and LRC with FST tweeters yesterday through John who was very accomodating to say the least. Thanks John. I sold my Active fronts rather quickly and now I have nothing to listen to and it sucks but hopefully they'll arrive soon. Thanks again guys.