AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Bryston Limited => Topic started by: ragg987 on 10 Apr 2018, 11:07 pm
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Is the upgraded asynchronous USB port on the SP3 capable of accepting multichannel PCM? I have searched around and am unable to find an answer to this. The spec says it is capable of 24/192 audio without mentioning number of channels.
I am trying to achieve the following:
- Use a music streamer (e.g. microRendu) to playback stereo and multi-channel PCM files from my network
- The SP3 has a good multichannel-capable DAC which works well with PCM over HDMI, it would be great if it can also support the USB
- My SP3 is from 2012 so USB would need to be upgraded
If this cannot work, are there any other streamer or DAC options? The specs on BDP-1, 2, 3 or Pi do not specify multi-channel playback.
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Is the upgraded asynchronous USB port on the SP3 capable of accepting multichannel PCM? I have searched around and am unable to find an answer to this. The spec says it is capable of 24/192 audio without mentioning number of channels.
I am trying to achieve the following:
- Use a music streamer (e.g. microRendu) to playback stereo and multi-channel PCM files from my network
- The SP3 has a good multichannel-capable DAC which works well with PCM over HDMI, it would be great if it can also support the USB
- My SP3 is from 2012 so USB would need to be upgraded
The USB input on the SP3 is just another digital input, but USB. I am using it now to matrix 2.0 to 7.1 Dolby Pro Logic Music Iix in 44/16 PCM. It sounds excellent. If you upgrade the USB to 192/24, it will do the same at the higher sampling rate. However, on most well recorded songs, I find 44/16 PCM on the SP3 to sound more natural and realistic sounding.
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Is the upgraded asynchronous USB port on the SP3 capable of accepting multichannel PCM? I have searched around and am unable to find an answer to this. The spec says it is capable of 24/192 audio without mentioning number of channels.
I am trying to achieve the following:
- Use a music streamer (e.g. microRendu) to playback stereo and multi-channel PCM files from my network
- The SP3 has a good multichannel-capable DAC which works well with PCM over HDMI, it would be great if it can also support the USB
- My SP3 is from 2012 so USB would need to be upgraded
If this cannot work, are there any other streamer or DAC options? The specs on BDP-1, 2, 3 or Pi do not specify multi-channel playback.
I can't speak for the SP but I have a BDP-2 and it does recognize multi-channel files, whether it can properly send the multi-channel audio out/through I'm not sure because my SSP does not support multi-channel over the AES/EBU connection I use.
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I can't speak for the SP but I have a BDP-2 and it does recognize multi-channel files, whether it can properly send the multi-channel audio out/through I'm not sure because my SSP does not support multi-channel over the AES/EBU connection I use.
I have the BDP2, also and I think it will convert multi-channel files to stereo.
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I have the BDP2, also and I think it will convert multi-channel files to stereo.
Any idea if it throws away the center and surround channels and just passes through the left/right or does it perhaps down-mix the non left/right channels 1st?
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I can't speak for the SP but I have a BDP-2 and it does recognize multi-channel files, whether it can properly send the multi-channel audio out/through I'm not sure because my SSP does not support multi-channel over the AES/EBU connection I use.
This is useful.
Anyone know if the SP3's USB can handle multichannel PCM? I suppose if the audio were bitstream then that should work, as per @gbaby, however bitstream is lossy so I have no intention of going that route.
James, any idea if the USB can handle multiple channels of PCM?
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Hi,
If you check the Bryston Website under the Digital tab, SP3, you will find a factory USB upgrade module reference with an attached PDF description.
"he new USB module will support PCM 192/24 as well as DSD Native/64/128" for both 2 channel and multi-channel music sources... :thumb:
Luigi
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Luigi, thanks for that, exactly the info I was looking for. Not sure how I missed it!
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Any idea if it throws away the center and surround channels and just passes through the left/right or does it perhaps down-mix the non left/right channels 1st?
This is the real topic for me. The BDP-2 won't pass multichannel through USB will it? If I have a multichannel wav file (for example), will it pass through the USB on a BDP-2 as multichannel?
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Hi,
If you check the Bryston Website under the Digital tab, SP3, you will find a factory USB upgrade module reference with an attached PDF description.
"he new USB module will support PCM 192/24 as well as DSD Native/64/128" for both 2 channel and multi-channel music sources... :thumb:
Luigi
That's good to see then so hopefully this feature makes it to the add in module of the SP4 as well that Bryston plans to bring down the line.
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This is the real topic for me. The BDP-2 won't pass multichannel through USB will it? If I have a multichannel wav file (for example), will it pass through the USB on a BDP-2 as multichannel?
Do you have a SP3 with the new USB card? By the sounds of things the answer is probably yes unless that is truly a difference between the BDP-2 a and BDP-3.
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Do you have a SP3 with the new USB card? By the sounds of things the answer is probably yes unless that is truly a difference between the BDP-2 a and BDP-3.
Not sure where you are getting the impression that the BDP-2 (or 3 for that matter) will work for outputting multi-channel through their USB ports. Nothing here indicates it, that I can see.
I appreciate that the USB upgrade for the SP3 gets that end of the chain working. What evidence do you have that the BDP (any version) end of the chain works?
I output multi-channel DTS through the BNC connector of my BDP-2 to my SP3 all the time, but it is from compressed DTS-CD files (2 channel encoded 44.1-16 AIF files). Even that sounds pretty amazing at times.
I would love to stream full resolution multichannel LPCM from my BDP. So far I haven't had anyone from Bryston give a complete response as to whether this is possible or not. Chris once told me that my old BDP-1 would only output 2 channel, but it was not a really clear response to the question I asked him. I have tried playing back full resolution multi-channel files through the BDP's BNC (and AES-EBU) and I get the results reported above, only the two front channels seem to go through. That makes sense to me due to the limited bandwidth of the SPDIF connection.
Will the USB output on a BDP-2 handle multi-channel output of uncompressed LPCM? If so I will get the SP-3 upgrade to accept it from my BDP-2.
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Not sure where you are getting the impression that the BDP-2 (or 3 for that matter) will work for outputting multi-channel through their USB ports. Nothing here indicates it, that I can see.
I appreciate that the USB upgrade for the SP3 gets that end of the chain working. What evidence do you have that the BDP (any version) end of the chain works?
I output multi-channel DTS through the BNC connector of my BDP-2 to my SP3 all the time, but it is from compressed DTS-CD files (2 channel encoded 44.1-16 AIF files). Even that sounds pretty amazing at times.
I would love to stream full resolution multichannel LPCM from my BDP. So far I haven't had anyone from Bryston give a complete response as to whether this is possible or not. Chris once told me that my old BDP-1 would only output 2 channel, but it was not a really clear response to the question I asked him. I have tried playing back full resolution multi-channel files through the BDP's BNC (and AES-EBU) and I get the results reported above, only the two front channels seem to go through. That makes sense to me due to the limited bandwidth of the PCMCIA connection.
Will the USB output on a BDP-2 handle multi-channel output of uncompressed LPCM? If so I will get the SP-3 upgrade to accept it from my BDP-2.
I have no evidence, it was just how I interpreted the earlier posts. If multi-channel is supported it's probably only going to be on the USB out because, and correct me if I'm wrong I don't think SPDIF or AES/EBU in general regardless of how they may be implemented on the BDP platforms support high res multi-channel, be that PCM or DSD, SPDIF only supports multi-channel bitstream.
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Sorry... Don't know why I wrote PCMCIA in my post when I was thinking SPDIF. It was early this morning when I wrote that!
I believe you are correct. Simply not enough bandwidth.
Cheers
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I have no evidence, it was just how I interpreted the earlier posts. If multichannel is supported it's probably only going to be on the USB out because, and correct me if I'm wrong I don't think SPDIF or AES/EBU in general regardless of how they may be implemented on the BDP platforms support high res multichannel, be that PCM or DSD, SPDIF only supports multi-channel bitstream.
This is a great question for Chris at Bryston, especially with BDP-3.
This player has HDMI port that can be used to send multichannel audio tracks to an AVR(like SP3) for surround sound?
The remaining outputs - USB/Coaxial-BNC/AES-EBU can be used to send two channel audio tracks to an external DAC(like BDA-3)?
This would be a great arrangement/flexibility for any digital audio sources... :thumb:
Luigi
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I can't speak for the SP but I have a BDP-2 and it does recognize multi-channel files, whether it can properly send the multi-channel audio out/through I'm not sure because my SSP does not support multi-channel over the AES/EBU connection I use.
Rod, I stand corrected. You were correct. The BDP-2 will play back multichannel files. :o I recently imported a 5.1 DTS and it displays as well as plays DTS 5.1 on the processor. With this kind of sound, who needs hi res 2 channel. Its even bigger than the differences between mono and stereo. In any event, the fact the BDP-2 can play multi-channel through its AES output is a real revelation. Thanks. 8)
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Rod, I stand corrected. You were correct. The BDP-2 will play back multichannel files. :o I recently imported a 5.1 DTS and it displays as well as plays DTS 5.1 on the processor. With this kind of sound, who needs hi res 2 channel. Its even bigger than the differences between mono and stereo. In any event, the fact the BDP-2 can play multi-channel through its AES output is a real revelation. Thanks. 8)
What format are you talking about? Was it truly a 5 channel format or a 2 channel file that was encoded to playback 5.1 channel DTS (e.g. an encoded WAV file). I have played the latter of the two frequently. I have been unable to get a true 5.1 channel *.DTS file to play back with anything other than the front two channels. Same with multichannel full resolution WAV files. I would think that a multichannel DTS file would fit in the bandwidth of AES but the card is only stereo in these players, right?
Still wondering about multichannel over USB though.
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Rod, I stand corrected. You were correct. The BDP-2 will play back multichannel files. :o I recently imported a 5.1 DTS and it displays as well as plays DTS 5.1 on the processor. With this kind of sound, who needs hi res 2 channel. Its even bigger than the differences between mono and stereo. In any event, the fact the BDP-2 can play multi-channel through its AES output is a real revelation. Thanks. 8)
Very nice, thanks for being able to confirm this for everyone.
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What format are you talking about? Was it truly a 5 channel format or a 2 channel file that was encoded to playback 5.1 channel DTS (e.g. an encoded WAV file). I have played the latter of the two frequently. I have been unable to get a true 5.1 channel *.DTS file to play back with anything other than the front two channels. Same with multichannel full resolution WAV files. I would think that a multichannel DTS file would fit in the bandwidth of AES but the card is only stereo in these players, right?
Still wondering about multichannel over USB though.
hmm, that is a good question. Not being familiar with the SP3, on my Lexicon MC-12 I have meters for all channels so I can easily and visually check signal on all channels. Does the SP3 have anything like that? If not I suppose he could make sure there is no matrix processing enabled and then simply turn off the main left and right channels, either in the SP3 or simply the amps and if any sound is coming out of his center and surrounds that will confirm the full 5.1 signal remains intact as it passes from the BDP-2.
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What format are you talking about? Was it truly a 5 channel format or a 2 channel file that was encoded to playback 5.1 channel DTS (e.g. an encoded WAV file). I have played the latter of the two frequently. I have been unable to get a true 5.1 channel *.DTS file to play back with anything other than the front two channels. Same with multichannel full resolution WAV files. I would think that a multichannel DTS file would fit in the bandwidth of AES but the card is only stereo in these players, right?
Still wondering about multichannel over USB though.
I imported three DTS-CDs to aiff files using iTunes. They were DTS 5.! and were two disc by the Ohio Players and one by Herb Alpert. They both play back 5.1 DTS on the Bryston SP3 and I can hear the 5.1 separation. I am using AES input to the SP3. This is amazing.
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Very nice, thanks for being able to confirm this for everyone.
I owe you an apology. I am so sorry for my almost arrogant assertion. I am so glad I was wrong as I can not import all my DTS surround discs although few.
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hmm, that is a good question. Not being familiar with the SP3, on my Lexicon MC-12 I have meters for all channels so I can easily and visually check signal on all channels. Does the SP3 have anything like that? If not I suppose he could make sure there is no matrix processing enabled and then simply turn off the main left and right channels, either in the SP3 or simply the amps and if any sound is coming out of his center and surrounds that will confirm the full 5.1 signal remains intact as it passes from the BDP-2.
The SP3 shows what signal is coming in and what signal is coming out. The display window shows DTS 5.1 in and it shows 7.1 out as I have a 7.1 system. I am certain the back rears are matrixes. Regardless, you can hear the 5.1 separation.
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The SP3 shows what signal is coming in and what signal is coming out. The display window shows DTS 5.1 in and it shows 7.1 out as I have a 7.1 system. I am certain the back rears are matrixes. Regardless, you can hear the 5.1 separation. And, my playback source is the Bryston BDP2 digital player using it AES output to the Bryson SP3 output.
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The SP3 shows what signal is coming in and what signal is coming out. The display window shows DTS 5.1 in and it shows 7.1 out as I have a 7.1 system. I am certain the back rears are matrixes. Regardless, you can hear the 5.1 separation. And, my playback source is the Bryston BDP2 digital player using it AES output to the Bryson SP3 output.
I thought as much. DTS-CDs and the ripped files have two channels of information on them. The multichannel info is encoded into those two channels. When played back you are streaming pcm (I think) across the AES connection to the SP3. The SP3 can take that pcm stream and decode it to discrete multi-channel (lossy) DTS and play it back. Still sounds pretty darn good to my ears. I have quite a few of those.
If you have any issues with the beginnings of songs being clipped off when playing the songs through the SP3, you might try the latest firmware. Stan fixed a glitch with DTS going over SPDIF in that one.
I would love to know if the BDP-2 can create a multi-channel stream through the usb output from full resolution multi-channel files. Chris?
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I owe you an apology. I am so sorry for my almost arrogant assertion. I am so glad I was wrong as I can not import all my DTS surround discs although few.
No worries, I took no offense :)
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The SP3 shows what signal is coming in and what signal is coming out. The display window shows DTS 5.1 in and it shows 7.1 out as I have a 7.1 system. I am certain the back rears are matrixes. Regardless, you can hear the 5.1 separation.
Cool, thanks
Yeah the surround backs in your case would either be derived via matrix processing i.e. dts:Neo 6, Dolby PLIIx (but that should be obvious I would think as there should be some sort of visual indication it's happening in the display) or it's also possible the SP3 is simply copying the surrounds to the back. My Lexicon for example allows for both, matrix (Dolby PLIIx, dts:Neo6, THX Ultra II and Logic 7) and simple copy from sides to rears.
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I imported three DTS-CDs to aiff files using iTunes. They were DTS 5.! and were two disc by the Ohio Players and one by Herb Alpert. They both play back 5.1 DTS on the Bryston SP3 and I can hear the 5.1 separation. I am using AES input to the SP3. This is amazing.
So with these being true dts CD's I assume it's legacy lossy dts correct? Have you tried ripping any high res multi-channel DVD-A's (MLP) or Blu-ray audio (dts-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, PCM) discs to see if they also pass through the BDP-2 and into the SP3?
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So with these being true dts CD's I assume it's legacy lossy dts correct? Have you tried ripping any high res multi-channel DVD-A's (MLP) or Blu-ray audio (dts-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, PCM) discs to see if they also pass through the BDP-2 and into the SP3?
I have no ability to rip or import DVD-A, Blu-ray or SACD. I used iTunes to import the DTS-CDs, and I was experimenting, but it worked on DTS-CD. I wish I owned more of them. And, yes, I am getting discrete DTS 5.1 from the Bryston SP3 processor as it shows 5.1, and you can hear it. If it was matrix, then the processor would read 2.0 going it and 7.1 going out.
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So with these being true dts CD's I assume it's legacy lossy dts correct? Have you tried ripping any high res multi-channel DVD-A's (MLP) or Blu-ray audio (dts-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, PCM) discs to see if they also pass through the BDP-2 and into the SP3?
Prettu sure I mentioned this above but let me try again. I have ripped from several DVD-A and blu-ray discs. Got mlp multichannel and wav multichannel. They only play back the front channels through AES or other SPDIF paths from the BDP’s. I have to use DTS software to encode them into DTS-CD files to get multi-channel lossy playback throgh SPDIF. And gbaby is right. It is defintely discrete 5.1 and not some matrixed rubbish.
It’s the USB that is interesting here. It has the bandwidth to play back multichannel at full resolution. Trying to get someone from Bryston to answer if the BDP2 will do it. I guess they arent interested in this topic. Weird since they fixed up the USB Oon the SP3 to handle it.
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I misunderstood your earlier comments then, I didn't realize you have ripped MLP and wav available.
Just so I understand correctly, your receiver, SSP, etc. does not have a USB input that's why you can't test, is that correct? You don't have a SP3? And gbaby doesn't have any high res multi-channel files, otherwise he would be able to connect via USB and confirm? Is there anyway you can get gbaby one of your files so he can test?
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I misunderstood your earlier comments then, I didn't realize you have ripped MLP and wav available.
Just so I understand correctly, your receiver, SSP, etc. does not have a USB input that's why you can't test, is that correct? You don't have a SP3? And gbaby doesn't have any high res multi-channel files, otherwise he would be able to connect via USB and confirm? Is there anyway you can get gbaby one of your files so he can test?
I do have an SP3. I have not upgraded the USB to include the new cool stuff. I tried to use the SP3 USB that I have, and got no signal to come through from my BDP2. Not sure if that is normal for an non-upgraded USB or not.
I am trying to get an answer from Bryston about the BDP’s outputting high res multi-channel over USB to determine if I should get the SP3 upgrade or not.
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Since I have discovered the BDP2 digital player will playback DTS-CD 5.1 I have gone on a buying bing to obtain all available. So far I have purchased Boys 2 Men II, The Police Greatest Hits, The Marvin Gaye Collection, Herb Alpert, The Ohio Players Honey and Fire as will as the Allman Brothers Live. 8) By the way, I can get 5.1 using the USB input on the SP3 in that the DTS-CD is a PCM file encoded at 44.1/16 x 5.1 channels. 8)
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I do have an SP3. I have not upgraded the USB to include the new cool stuff. I tried to use the SP3 USB that I have, and got no signal to come through from my BDP2. Not sure if that is normal for an non-upgraded USB or not.
I am trying to get an answer from Bryston about the BDP’s outputting high res multi-channel over USB to determine if I should get the SP3 upgrade or not.
In order to use USB from the BDP2 through the USB on the SP3, make sure you check USB for the MPD and reboot. It will work.