[Ericus Rex]

He'll probably wonder what all he paid for if he sees all that air inside his chassis.  I agree, that's a silly stance.

[Big Red Machine]

He'll probably wonder what all he paid for if he sees all that air inside his chassis.  I agree, that's a silly stance.

If the creator wants his circuitry all over the internet then let him/her show it.  If others have shown the circuitry then that is their issue to deal with, but from an IP standpoint some of us want nothing to do with broadcasting that which is not ours to broadcast.  Like JT, I also deal with IP on a daily basis and protecting it has been burned into my brain.  For those who do not deal with IP daily I can understand how you might see it differently.

[JakeJ]

Jeez, let's get off this "pick it apart" bandwagon please.  jtwrace, BRM and other TRL owners are just here to discuss a product they like and let other tubeheads know about it.

The picture from the link is just a top down shot and no one can see what's going on under the boards the tubes are mounted on.  This thing is point-to-point wired, yes?  As such there all kinds of components we can't see.  It's not just a "box full of air".  And while you are entitled to your opinion maybe it could be stated in a less antagonistic manner.

[doug s.]

Jeez, let's get off this "pick it apart" bandwagon please.  jtwrace, BRM and other TRL owners are just here to discuss a product they like and let other tubeheads know about it.

The picture from the link is just a top down shot and no one can see what's going on under the boards the tubes are mounted on.  This thing is point-to-point wired, yes?  As such there all kinds of components we can't see.  It's not just a "box full of air".  And while you are entitled to your opinion maybe it could be stated in a less antagonistic manner.

i am not at all trying to be antagonistic.  i simply posted my wiews that pics of the dude and and a lot of other gear are freely posted all over the web.  for someone to think they shouldn't do it because of "intellectual property", is yust being a bit naive, imo.  lonewolf/chris isn't the only person to have posted a pic of the dude, or of other trl gear, or of other gear in general...

http://pic8.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1311350023.jpg

and, reasonable persons may differ on whether the innards look good or not.  tho i am not sure much (if anything) is underneath.  but, i also know that parts count doesn't always tell the story - the implementation is key.  and the dude has gotten raves from a lot of folks.  it's not for me, cuz i need more inputs and at least one tape loop.  but, i still follow the thread, cuz i like to hear about killer pre's - the most important piece of electronics in the system, imo.  after >10 years, i am still happy w/mine!     hopefully, jtwrace will still be enjoying his ten years from now!   

jake, i was too lazy to pull the lid off of mine, but your old one is close enough, eh?   


ymmv,

doug s.

[jackman]

I'm with Doug on this one. Although I'm kind of surprised by how little is in that case. At least the thick aluminum face and heavy case gives owners a nice perceived sense of value.  Just kidding, I'm sure it's a great preamp and a bargain at the asking price.

Either way, thanks to the pictures posted, I'm going to send the picture to that guy on audio on who makes clones of Pass gear and ask him to whip up a Dude knockoff!  Son of Dude.  Hoping to keep it under $400.  Thanks again.  Only joking of course. I wouldn't own knock off anything!

J

[wilsynet]

I don't see how anyone could possibly reverse engineer those designs using those pictures.  I don't buy the argument that such a picture is someone else's intellectual property and I don't think anything can be usefully gained by examining those pictures.

[rollo]

  So what I gather so far is that the Dude is neutral in charcater as oppossed to colored. Our reference for a neutral Preamp is CAT. The Dude is a heck of a lot cheaper in price. I like the point to point wiring and the simple board layout. It would be interesting to me to to hear it against the CAT.
  BTW seeing the innards has increased my interest now, before it was really a guess.


charles
SMA
 

[kingdeezie]

I don't see how anyone could possibly reverse engineer those designs using those pictures.  I don't buy the argument that such a picture is someone else's intellectual property and I don't think anything can be usefully gained by examining those pictures.

I was thinking the same thing, but I am not an engineer. I can just about change my own tubes. 

I respect that people respect other's work.

Glad the OP is enjoying the preamp. Because of audio nervosa, I am certainly always "looking" at something new.

The DUDE looks like something I could get into.

[wilsynet]

I think about it like a car.  You can buy a car, take pictures of the car, pop the hood and take pictures of that too.  You can even take a picture of the wiring harness, disassemble the car completely and take pictures of all the parts.  And finally, you can post those pictures on the Internet.

You can also buy a computer, disassemble the computer and do the same.

People have been doing this for a long time, yet I don't see GM or Apple suing people for doing this.  And you can bet that if they thought their rights were being infringed that they would assert those rights.

Do I respect the work of GM and Apple?  Yes.  I also respect the work of TRL and without the resistor values, capacitor values, which wire is actually going between which points A and B, I see no way of reverse engineering the design from the pictures being posted.  Does it use wires, resistors, capacitors and 6SN7 tubes?  Oh yes, but that's as far as you can tell.

At the company I work at, we make software and hardware.  Taking a picture of one of our boards would hardly enable one to do much of anything.  Copying our source code and our schematics would enable one to do quite a bit, but a photograph of the device itself is not the same, not nearly the same.

Others who feel differently are welcome to refrain from posting pictures.  I think that's fine, but I do not agree with the position that the rest of us are doing harm.  I'd love to hear the point of view of some actual manufacturers though.  Hard to believe its a real issue -- those guys on 6moons take pictures of the insides all the time and manufacturers seem to keep sending gear their way.

[ted_b]

To me the issue isn't nearly the IP and pictures as it is the attitude toward the owner/OP, Jason.  He has to live with the relationship with mfg'er, not you guys!!  It's easy when you have no skin in the game!  He started this thread to share his experience, he stated his position on IP, you said he's silly and naive, and then threw it in his face and even chided him on it.  That's bs IMO.

[wilsynet]

I haven't said that anyone is silly or naive.  Jason can do whatever he wants to do and I haven't given him or anyone else a hard time about anything.  The only thing I've done is respectfully disagree with the position that those who do post pictures as doing harm.  Whether you want to post pictures or not is entirely up to you.

[Lyndon]

+1 ! Ted_b
I seemed to get that drift as well.  It is so hard to have someone talk about their new gear, and then here come the people with their knives and forks.  But if one is objective, as I believe Doug and Wilsynet have been, there should be a place for open discussion.
HiFi has a LOT of subjective areas, but many of us would like some areas be concrete, with test lab graphs and figures, like John Atkinson.  I do tend to look more at companies that post these results, as well as ones that give us a 'look under the hood'.  If Jason is happy with his unit, so be it.

I'm still trying to figure out this 1986 Van Alstine Pat-5 chassis Transcendence Series Two with a busted power switch.  I've had two people PM me that I should post the op amp values on those boards and take suggestions for new replacements (opamps have made major strides in the last twenty years), but holy moley, I just want to change out that power switch, and LISTEN to it.

Jason, glad you are enjoying your Dude preamp.  After hearing those Abbey speakers at Mike's house in Denver, I know you are having FUN!
Lyndon

[poseidonsvoice]

To me the issue isn't nearly the IP and pictures as it is the attitude toward the owner/OP, Jason.  He has to live with the relationship with mfg'er, not you guys!!  It's easy when you have no skin in the game!  He started this thread to share his experience, he stated his position on IP, you said he's silly and naive, and then threw it in his face and even chided him on it.  That's bs IMO.

+ 1 million.

Honestly, if it were my thread, I would've trashed it. But I respect Jtwrace's willingness to share his experiences and thoughts with this great pre.

Anand.

[JakeJ]

I was really hoping this thread would get back on track but it would seem that isn't going to happen....or it it still possible?

I will give it some more time.

[Big Red Machine]

I've had my share of preamps and for now have no lust for any others.  I wish I could have a second system with another Dude.  No space and overkill.

That Aesthetix Janus preamp I have here now lists at $10k and it cannot even come close to holding a candle to the Dude.  I know the  Calypso model is highly regarded and do not know how this Janus compares.  It has 10 tubes in it, two PCB's, a separate digital/low noise compartment, and sleek looks.  My guess based on my experience is even tube rolling will not get this to the level of the Dude.

This is the only real time comparo I can offer.  (Janus is on loan frrom a buddy who wanted me to try it out)

[HT cOz]

Seems like a generally well regarded pre-amp. Thanks for sharing.

[jtwrace]

I've had my share of preamps and for now have no lust for any others. 

Glad to hear that you're still happy.  After reading your impressive list of previous owned I think it would take a bunch to better the Dude if possible.  So many people that own this piece have said to give it time but I'm still shocked at how great it is out of the box. 

[doug s.]

I haven't said that anyone is silly or naive.  Jason can do whatever he wants to do and I haven't given him or anyone else a hard time about anything.  The only thing I've done is respectfully disagree with the position that those who do post pictures as doing harm.  Whether you want to post pictures or not is entirely up to you.

i said it was naive.  but, i was not at all disrespectful, there was no chiding - i was simply expressing my opinion.  and i fully respect jason's opinion, even tho mine may differ.

jason, i am so happy to hear of another preamp that the amazes the owner with its transparency, dynamics, neutrality, low noise floor, while at the same time sounding musical!      as someone who believes the preamp is the key to a truly musical system that transcends simply listening to recorded software and takes you to another plane, i think it's great when someone experiences this, as it encourages others to seek it out.  enjoy! 

doug s.

[Quiet Earth]

I appreciate seeing the pictures because it tells me a little more about the Dude other than how good it sounds. I am actually more inspired to buy one. I think the purpose of the thread was to share the dude, and a picture can help some of us understand it better, especially when there's not much information available to talk about it.

For example, when you said that the Dude had three 6SN7s, I thought, wow, that's gonna be a lot of gain! But now I can see that one 6SN7 is part of the elaborate power supply circuit, and not a gain stage. (Nice power supply btw!) And speaking of gain, since you never mentioned the volume controls being touchy to adjust, I'm going to guess that you have parallel 6SN7s sections acting as a single, low output impedance, high current gain stage, vs. a cascaded 6SN7, double gain stage with higher output impedance. That helps describe it too, even if it is a guess.

And back to the subject of those pictures, well,,,,,,,  they are different. The AC transformers and choke(s) are physically different.  And because of the messy wiring in the first picture I would be willing to guess that it is a prototype unit. Maybe both pictures are prototypes. Or, the Dude is an ongoing work in progress, which is pretty normal for small volume high end audio. Maybe you have the latest version. This means we need another picture! 

I don't think you are violating anyone's IP by showing a picture or describing what you see under the hood. You're actually promoting the product.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the Dude. Glad you like it so much. 

[rollo]

I've had my share of preamps and for now have no lust for any others.  I wish I could have a second system with another Dude.  No space and overkill.

That Aesthetix Janus preamp I have here now lists at $10k and it cannot even come close to holding a candle to the Dude.  I know the  Calypso model is highly regarded and do not know how this Janus compares.  It has 10 tubes in it, two PCB's, a separate digital/low noise compartment, and sleek looks.  My guess based on my experience is even tube rolling will not get this to the level of the Dude.

This is the only real time comparo I can offer.  (Janus is on loan frrom a buddy who wanted me to try it out)

 We are are getting closer. Thanks for the comparison.


charles
SMA