AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: nhtran on 13 Jun 2017, 03:36 pm
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I know this topic has been beaten to death but I have a very specific request: Seeking comments for those who used/have used low powered (esp. single ended) amps to power their M3s. Please provide details on the particular amp (wattage, topology, etc.), your room size and your impressions.
Thanks in advance.
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The only way you are going to know is if you actually try different amps. Other systems or ears may help a little but not all. Audition audition audition.
BTW any good SET amp should suffice. Decware ? Border Patrol ? Coincident ? Air Tight ? Akito ? Have fun.
charles
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Ive actually got a pair of Welborne Labs DRD45s, which put about 1.5 W/Ch. They did play but not loud on my pair of M3 Turbo S. I haven't really used them beyond one day as they are sitting and waiting for me to set them up appropriately. But they did play comfortably audible enough within my room (12'x13').
So, success? No impressions as I haven't set them up properly, again. Will have more time in a month to follow up and provide better impressions.
-dave
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Where are you located?
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...any good SET amp should suffice. Decware ? Border Patrol ? Coincident ? Air Tight ? Akito ? Have fun.
I have a Coincident Dynamo MKII, under 'normal conditions' it is indeed a very sweet sounding/remarkable amp. Better than the Decware, 2A3, 300b etc I've previously owned. But with the difficult load of the M3ts, it sounds rather bland, common, mundane ... all SET attributes AWOL. So I switched it out with a lowly TPA 3116 that I have on hand and :o
IMO, anyone using a SET should consider at the very least trying something else. I don't know what the M3ts impedance curve looks like, but I can assure you it isn't very SET friendly, neither is 3 ohms. That is why Clayton introduced the Triode Master.
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Where are you located?
I assume you're asking me. If so, Houston.
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I used a RedWine Sig 30.2 with my M1Turbo's and enjoyed it quite a bit. Currently have them hooked up to a Odyssey Stratos for a bit more bass control and for those moments when i want concert levels...
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I have the M3 Turbo S's and I had a Jolida 1000 integrated amp at 100W per ch. I had the amp modded out with caps and tubes. I have EL-34s in it and with every speaker I matched it with I loved the guts, midrange, and soundstage. When I got my first high efficient speakers with the M3's TS and plugged them in I was immediately impressed but after time I felt it was missing the magic other fine speakers I had used had. Clayton told me he really like SET amps and I was thinking about them since I had never owned a SET. I got custom made, 2A3 4.5 W amp, and was blown away how well they sounded. I added a custom made tube pre-amp and I feeling the SET magic big time.
I choose the 2A3 over the 300b due to its better bass response. I also have a transmission line sub woofer with the M3 TS. Nnothing missing in its presentation. Its awesome top to bottom.
Now Clayton with the Triode Master has even tweaked the speaker even more to improve the match, so i am considering the upgrade.
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I assume you're asking me. If so, Houston.
Yep, checking as I have a number of lower powered amps and if you were local in Ft. Worth could have tried a few out.
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I'm really impressed with the Dennis Had Magnavox single ended EL-84. Dennis Had, retired founder of Cary Audio and chief engineer, totally ungraded this vintage amp with all new parts and an improved circuit using a 7308 rather than a 12ax7. One of the sweetest toned amps I've owned and a great match for my Zenith 49CZ802 open baffles.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164118)
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My M4 Turbos are just 1 dB less efficient than your M3's so my experiences should be relevant. The Decware Mini Torii (4 watts) sounded sweet on my M4 Turbo's but didn't have quite enough oomph. Upgrading to a 20 watt Torii Junior did the trick for tubes. Switching to solid state, I realized those big woofers really like more control. The Class A-B Mosfet in the LIO amp (45 watts into the Spatial's 4 ohms) was great overall with tons of volume and density. The best (and final) solution for me was the magical sounding First Watt Class A F7. Plenty of power (30 watts into 4 ohms) and truly marvelous sound. If you have a smallish listening space and/or don't need ear splitting volume I can't imagine a better combination.
Room is a lousy 10' x 10' x 8' box but 4 GIK TriTraps in the front corners help a lot. I use the LIO for my preamp.
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Heard these while auditioning a Van Alstine Ultraverve-I bought the Ultraverve!
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I haven't been on this forum for quite some time – didn't even realize that Spatial had established a dedicated forum here!
In any event, I wanted to respond to this topic. I have always used my Spatial speakers (first the M4, and now the M3 Turbo S) with a low powered, SET amp. In my case, it is the Audio Note Kits "Kit 1" Amplifier, which is 300 B-based, putting out around 8 W per channel.
I have always found my amp and the Spatial speakers to be a wonderful match. The sound is sweet, open and lifelike.
That said, I am currently working on a comprehensive review of my M3 Turbo S, for my audio blog. For the first time, I'm pleased that I'm going to be able to offer a comparison of how some very different amplifiers drive these speakers. Specifically, I managed to borrow a high-powered Krell solid-state amp. Once the review goes up in a couple of weeks, I'll have some more data by which to compare a low powered SET amp with a very different solid-state amp.
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Have M3TM that were upgraded from the TurboS version. Room is 20 x 20 x8 with some treatments to walls and ceiling. I am using a pair of GR Research dual 12" servo OB subs, so the bass response of the Spatials is not as much an issue as w/out subs. Initially tried the Red Dragon amp on the TurboS, but it lost in a shootout with my Shindo Montille 6V6. Then upgraded to TM. Just spent a month comparing the Montille to a First Watt J-2 amp. J-2 has better bass - makes it really easy to follow the bass player in most recordings. It is the best competitor I have tried against the Shindo in last 2 years, but each time I run the J-2 for a week and then switch back to the Shindo, I decide within 10 seconds that the Shindo sounds better. Just so damn smooth. There's my 2 cents.
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I used to use a Trafomatic 300b SET amp to drive my M3s. But the amp wasn‘t able to control the big speakers so I tested a lot of other amplifiers too. Including EL 34s from Melody and a Leben CS600. Then I realized that solid state amps with higher damping simply sound better.
I ended up with using a Hegel H160 solid state which nearly generated magical reproduction. So for me no tubes and low powered amps with the M3 anymore.
Of course it could be the other way around with the triode editions. But these unfortunately are very expensive in my country these days considering a retail price of about 7000 to 9000 Dollars depending on the veneers. I sometimes wish I lived in the US :)
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I really don't think you need a big SS amp. I've said this many times before, when I replaced my 8 watt set with a small Class D amp quite literally the size and weight of a credit card, the difference was night and day. Tube amps are for speakers with soft easy loads.
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I ultimately settled with BAT VK-220SE (rated 125 watt @ 8ohm, double @ 4ohm). I suspect the M3s impedance curve is a little too much for low powered tube amps.
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I am an early adopter of M2s and run mine with a Sophia Electric Baby tube amp. You can routinely find these for sale used on Audiogon, I got mine locally for $600. IMO you would have to spend upwards of $2k to improve on this amp, beautiful to look and lucid sound.