AudioCircle

Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: Rocket on 20 Aug 2013, 05:34 am

Title: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 20 Aug 2013, 05:34 am
Hi Salk Customers,

Just got back from an overseas holiday to Vietnam and I had a lovely discovery regarding my hifi system.  It has taken me literally years to amass a system that I was really happy with and recently I bought a salk/rhythmic subwoofer which added that little bit of extra bass that I wanted.  While enquiring with Jim whether he was able to match the veneer of my HT2's he indicated that he had discovered some leftover veneer from the original build way back in 2008.  He did a perfect of matching the subwoofer veneer to the HT2's.

Unfortunately when I got home I was told that a door was left open in our lounge room and it appears that perhaps one or two of our cats have knocked over some furniture which has resulted in one of the HT2 speakers falling onto my stereo rack.  The veneer is quite badly damaged and also one of the glass shelves on the rack smashed as well.  My hifi equipment is fine but the speaker looks pretty bad.  I have sent Jim an SOS message for assistance but I'm not sure what he can do for me because I live in Australia and shipping the speaker back to the US for repair is not feasible.  Even if he rebuilt another speaker it wouldn't match the other one and having 2 speakers built and then swapping the components over would be quite expensive.  My home insurance does not cover accidental damage and that option is out.

Funnily enough when I got up this morning one of cats was sitting on top of the subwoofer and the other on the equipment rack and it almost appeared that they were gleefully smiling at me. 

Cheers Rod

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85548)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85550)
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: DaveC113 on 20 Aug 2013, 06:27 am
You could cover the tops of the speakers with cat skin rugs.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: jules on 20 Aug 2013, 07:28 am
Hi Rod,

if you can find a local wood and veneer expert they should be able to draw out the shallower dents and bring it back to as close to new as doesn't matter. The deep ones might not respond to treatment as well but some careful work should make a huge difference. Time might help you recover from the shock too  :).

Jules

Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: WireNut on 20 Aug 2013, 07:32 am
Quote from: jules on 20 Aug 2013, 07:28 am
Hi Rod,

if you can find a local wood and veneer expert they should be able to draw out the shallower dents and bring it back to as close to new as doesn't matter. The deep ones might not respond to treatment as well but some careful work should make a huge difference. Time might help you recover from the shock too  :).

Jules

Yeah, Looks like its gonna take a steady hand and some time to fix that one but at least the drivers weren't damaged.   
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 20 Aug 2013, 11:19 am
Hi,

I'll see what Jim recommends but I've tried to have veneer repaired in Perth before and I've had no luck.  The job was quite poorly done and very obvious. 

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: jtwrace on 20 Aug 2013, 12:14 pm
Why not sell them as is and buy new ones?!?!?!?   :thumb:

WIN-WIN
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: JohnR on 20 Aug 2013, 12:16 pm
Hi Rod, apart from executing the cats, I wouldn't worry about it, it doesn't affect the sound.

JohnR from the other side
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: decal on 20 Aug 2013, 12:25 pm
Cats are the spawn of Satan. Get rid of it before it takes your soul to ruination.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85563)

 
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Phil A on 20 Aug 2013, 12:27 pm
Go out and get every 3 Dog Night recording and play it continuously until the cats know their place :green:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: mav52 on 20 Aug 2013, 12:44 pm
That's why I don't have freaking cats.   PS: sorry for your lose...

 Looks like a job for a good cabinet re-finisher
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: pslate on 20 Aug 2013, 01:07 pm
Rocket I feel your pain. I have to keep my one cat away from my gear constantly. Although it always occurs while I'm there. He acts out against the competition for his affection! Tinfoil around the base of items keeps him away, but I know it's unsightly. Man this cat, $3,5000 in vet bills already this year. But if I were to give him up, no one would keep him.   
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Vulcan00 on 20 Aug 2013, 01:07 pm
Man, that's bad, I feel for you  :(  I think after some time and maybe some cabinet touch-up work, the anguish will ease some and you will be able to live with it. As long as it still sound good.

Bummer
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Mudslide on 20 Aug 2013, 01:12 pm
Quote from: Rocket on 20 Aug 2013, 11:19 am
Hi,

I'll see what Jim recommends but I've tried to have veneer repaired in Perth before and I've had no luck.  The job was quite poorly done and very obvious. 

Cheers Rod

Sorry, mate.  That's awful.

I would ask around.  Surely there must be more than one furniture repair guy in Perth.  I had some similar speaker repair work done by such a veneer-fix guy in our little burg, and it's amazingly close to the original.  Dyed epoxy base stuff is what he used, and you couldn't tell where it was damaged unless I pointed it out.

Good luck with getting back to normal.  I agree with others on cats.  Dingos would make less damaging pets.   :lol:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: adydula on 20 Aug 2013, 01:14 pm
Shoot the dang cats......

Alex

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Ericus Rex on 20 Aug 2013, 02:29 pm
Look around in your area for:  furniture makers, art restorers (frames specifically), violin makers, guitar makers, inlay artisans and the like.  Your local museum might have some leads for you.  I'd expect the repair to be pretty expensive if done right.  Brace yourself!
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Phil A on 20 Aug 2013, 02:33 pm
A friend of mine had cats and he used to put a couch pillow on top of his speakers to discourage them from jumping on top.  Seemed to work.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: WGH on 20 Aug 2013, 02:43 pm
The dents in the solid wood border around the front baffle can be raised and carefully refinished. The veneer damage will probably have to be artfully hidden.

Make a little dam around the dents in the solid wood with masking tape and fill it with distilled water, most of the water should be absorbed by the dent. Then remove the tape and using a hot iron and a clean wet cloth steam out the dent, you should be able to raise it 90% or more. Sand smooth and refinish.

The veneer scratches can be hidden using either Mohawk Fil-Stik or Quick Fill Burn-In Stick. An antique repair business may be able to help.

http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/ (http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/)

(http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/mhk_cds/product_images/M320-1200_2.jpg)(http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/mhk_cds/product_images/230color.jpg)

Wayne


 
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: JerryM on 20 Aug 2013, 03:10 pm
Those pictures just hurt.  :(

While you consider your options, might I suggest some light reading?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/101UsesforDeadCat.jpg)
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: DGCURTIS36 on 20 Aug 2013, 03:16 pm
Hmmm - seems like this has turned into a forum about cats as much as speakers haha. Makes me wonder if anyone has ever had a speaker knocked over by a woof woof? Was the first response kill the dog? Now if you take a close look at my avatar you will see my son's kitty Dexter posing next to a Don Allen modified CD player causing no problems whatsoever, as innocent as can be  :lol: All kidding aside, am very sorry about the damage to your beautiful Salks, I know that if something similar happened to my 8's I would be devastated. Hope you are able to get them repaired well enough to enjoy them once again. 
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: DRSmith on 20 Aug 2013, 03:47 pm
I see that the plinths on the HT2s don't increase the width of the speaker base.  Maybe a larger plinth or outrigger would be a good idea for future protection on these HT2s?

BTW, I almost wish that a cat would tear into my speakers so that I would have an excuse to get some Salks.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Phil A on 20 Aug 2013, 03:57 pm
Quote from: DRSmith on 20 Aug 2013, 03:47 pm
I see that the plinths on the HT2s don't increase the width of the speaker base.  Maybe a larger plinth or outrigger would be a good idea for future protection on these HT2s?

BTW, I almost wish that a cat would tear into my speakers so that I would have an excuse to get some Salks.

Perhaps the OP can make a deal to lend you some :lol:  Pets, in general, are a responsibility and it's tough.  When I had a dog, it was one of the reasons why I would not consider bookshelf speakers.  At 75 lbs. (the dog) it would have been an accident waiting to happen
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: broom1998 on 20 Aug 2013, 05:19 pm
 We had to put down our Yorkie of 11 years Sunday she was diagnosed with kidney failure 2 weeks prior, I would give my speakers away to have her back.

hope you find a repair that works for you.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Sonny on 20 Aug 2013, 05:47 pm
Quote from: DaveC113 on 20 Aug 2013, 06:27 am
You could cover the tops of the speakers with cat skin rugs.  :thumb:

 :duh:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: sharpsuxx on 20 Aug 2013, 07:36 pm
I would say with that deep of gouges rather than trying to refinish them find someone who can give them a professional looking distressed look.  Might be cool  :D
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: DRSmith on 20 Aug 2013, 07:47 pm
Quote from: Phil A on 20 Aug 2013, 03:57 pm
Perhaps the OP can make a deal to lend you some :lol:  Pets, in general, are a responsibility and it's tough.  When I had a dog, it was one of the reasons why I would not consider bookshelf speakers.  At 75 lbs. (the dog) it would have been an accident waiting to happen

We had a lab (85lbs) for 12+years, we had to put her down a little over a year ago.  When she was a puppy, she would run around like crazy.  So, I tried to catch her for fear that she would knock something over, so she knocked something over when I tried to catch her.  After that I decided to let her run.  She never did knock anything over after that.  Having two critters… may make it into more dangerous play though.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 21 Aug 2013, 01:10 am
Hi,

Well I have to say that I didn't think we'd get into a debate about cats and dogs  :duh:.

Anyway Jim has confirmed that it is a really tough fix to repair the speakers because the damage is right on the corner between the hardwood and the side of the speaker.  A repair will definitely be noticeable.  I don't allow myself many luxuries in life but my stereo is one of them (I still drive a 1996 hyundai).  I'm going to telephone Jim tonight and discuss a couple of scenarios with him.

Regards Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Phil A on 21 Aug 2013, 02:18 am
Quote from: DRSmith on 20 Aug 2013, 07:47 pm
We had a lab (85lbs) for 12+years, we had to put her down a little over a year ago.  When she was a puppy, she would run around like crazy.  So, I tried to catch her for fear that she would knock something over, so she knocked something over when I tried to catch her.  After that I decided to let her run.  She never did knock anything over after that.  Having two critters… may make it into more dangerous play though.

Animals don't always have the best judgment on size.  When I had my dog he still thought he was a small lap dog and would just sit down on your toes sometimes - here's something that demonstrates those principles - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdAKxxdRYTE
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: richidoo on 21 Aug 2013, 02:46 am
Sorry to hear about the damage, Rod. You've had some bad luck with your system these last few years! WGH has some good advice, he is a professional high end woodworker so he knows what he is talking about. Try to raise the grain then take your time to find a talented furniture restorer repairman who can fill in the dents and recolor the surface to perfection. Ask around, especially at the high end furniture stores, they keep the best guys busy and skills sharp. They have their own shops to shoot lacquer, match colors, whatever. 
Good luck!
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: hakka26 on 21 Aug 2013, 02:58 am
Yeah, what WGH posted. If you go the DYI route, be careful with the iron as you could cause the veneer glue to melt and might cause bubbling. Use a real high grit to finish.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: WGH on 21 Aug 2013, 05:11 am
It would be real tricky to raise the dents in the veneer. I wouldn't worry about the glue, a little heat won't hurt the Titebond veneer glue but the finish and underlayment is another matter. Get the MDF too wet and it will puff up like a marshmallow.

If possible I would test a repair in a hidden area first or maybe Jim can sent Rod finished sample pieces for destruction and repair tests. 
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 21 Aug 2013, 03:55 pm
Hi WGH and Richidoo,

Thank you for your advice its really appreciated.  I telephoned Jim tonight and he quoted a quite reasonable price for two new speaker cabinets and I've decided to go this route.  I have the original HT2 speaker and he suggested that I can use my components and xover and use them in a transmission line version of the HT2 speaker.  It would mean that I just need to remove the components and xover and install them in the speakers.  Due to the increase bass response it would mean that I can use the subwoofer in HT system and it won't be wasted.

I'm going for a different speaker finish this time which should look really nice.  I know that some people may question my sanity but I really look after my gear and I don't allow myself many luxuries apart from my hifi gear and my Bach Stradivarius trumpet.

Its funny I sent a pm only a few days ago and told and AC member that I had finally fixed my turntable and amplifier issues and I was really getting back into audio.  I should have kept my mouth shut  :duh:.

Anyway thanks for the suggestions, ideas and advice.

Regards Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: WGH on 21 Aug 2013, 05:03 pm
Sounds like a very elegant solution, you'll love what the HT2-TL does with low notes even more.

Wayne
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: mrhyfy on 21 Aug 2013, 05:20 pm
I'd get a local furniture refinisher to fill the dents,,sand them down and then do piano black on them both
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: chargedmr2 on 21 Aug 2013, 10:30 pm
I have no doubt that you made the right decision for yourself.  You're obviously one who cares about keeping things nice, and no other option is going to get you back into a like new pair of Salks.  Hopefully this wait isn't as painful as the first--you'll have the same great sound to listen to in the interim :thumb:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 23 Aug 2013, 04:16 am
Hi,

I'm about to order the new cabinets and I've chose this colour.  My initial dismay about the damage to the cabinets has passed now but i'll still go thru with ordering them from Jim and shipping the speakers to Australia.  At least I'm going from the standard HT2 version to the transmission line and I'll be able to use the salk subwoofer with my home theatre setup.  I'll still have the LCY ribbon as opposed to the RAAL but it would have cost me too much to order the xover and new tweeters.  The LCY is every bit as good as the Raven ribbon tweeter that I had in my previous system.  My two children are going thirds with me for the new cabinets and I won't be too much out of pocket.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=85690)

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Ericus Rex on 23 Aug 2013, 10:51 pm
Quote from: Rocket on 23 Aug 2013, 04:16 am
...My two children are going thirds with me for the new cabinets and I won't be too much out of pocket.


Cheers Rod

Their cats, eh?

What's you plan for the old cabs?
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 23 Aug 2013, 11:26 pm
Hi,

My son and daughter were looking after the house while my wife and I were away and they decided to chip in some money to help replace the speakers.  I'm undecided at this stage what to do with the speakers?  It would cost a fortune to send them to the US and no one would want them here in Australia because the brand is not known (which is a pity).

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: WGH on 24 Aug 2013, 12:03 am
Quote
I'm undecided at this stage what to do with the speakers?

If you covered them in carpet they would make nice cat condos.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Chromisdesigns on 24 Aug 2013, 12:12 am
Quote from: Vulcan00 on 20 Aug 2013, 01:07 pm
Man, that's bad, I feel for you  :(  I think after some time and maybe some cabinet touch-up work, the anguish will ease some and you will be able to live with it. As long as it still sound good.

Bummer

This -- what you want is someone who does faux-finishing and/or antique furniture touch-up repairs.  A good craftsman can make those absolutely disappear with a combination of filling, toning laquer, and hand-applied faux finish details.  Depending on the specific wood and damage, they may use a combination of epoxy or other curing resin, burned-in shellac, spray toners, dyes, and hand-painting.  You would not believe what these guys can do.  I used to be involved with tech installs in historic (US colonial-era) public buildings, and I used the local guys a lot to match and repair old woodwork and finishes.

Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 29 Aug 2013, 08:28 am
Hi,

Just thought I'd give you an update on what I've decided to do with the HT2 speakers.  I've totally changed my plans and have now sold the speakers.  I got a decent offer that I can live with and I've decided to upgrade to a pair of HT3's.  This is the speaker that I originally wanted to purchase and in preparation, some years ago, I bought a Spread Spectrum Technologies Ampzilla 2000 (second edition) that pumps out 300watts per channel conservatively.   The Ampzilla 2000's really are just idling when they power the HT2 speakers and they'll have plenty of power for my uses.  I can't pony up for a pair of Soundscape 8's and the HT3's will be my retirement speakers.

I'm currently working with Jim to order a pair.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: richidoo on 29 Aug 2013, 09:25 am
Sounds like a good solution!
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Saturn94 on 29 Aug 2013, 07:53 pm
Quote from: Rocket on 29 Aug 2013, 08:28 am
Hi,

Just thought I'd give you an update on what I've decided to do with the HT2 speakers.  I've totally changed my plans and have now sold the speakers.  I got a decent offer that I can live with and I've decided to upgrade to a pair of HT3's.  This is the speaker that I originally wanted to purchase and in preparation, some years ago, I bought a Spread Spectrum Technologies Ampzilla 2000 (second edition) that pumps out 300watts per channel conservatively.   The Ampzilla 2000's really are just idling when they power the HT2 speakers and they'll have plenty of power for my uses.  I can't pony up for a pair of Soundscape 8's and the HT3's will be my retirement speakers.

I'm currently working with Jim to order a pair.

Cheers Rod

Sweet!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: audiotom on 29 Aug 2013, 09:39 pm
Rod

are you holding on to the HT2s until the HT3s arrive or are you parting with them now

If I recall you were our Aussie contingent, that's a slow ship

best of luck in the transition
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 30 Aug 2013, 12:14 am
Hi,

The speakers are sold and being collected Saturday.  Yes I know I'll be without speakers for a couple of months but I need to take advantage that I have a confirmed sale.  Salk Sound isn't well known here in Australia.  I have another pair of speakers I can use if I'm desperate.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: jtwrace on 30 Aug 2013, 01:02 am
Quote from: Rocket on 29 Aug 2013, 08:28 am
I've totally changed my plans and have now sold the speakers.

You should've listened to me back when:
Quote from: jtwrace on 20 Aug 2013, 12:14 pm
Why not sell them as is and buy new ones?!?!?!?   :thumb:

WIN-WIN
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 30 Aug 2013, 03:42 am
Hi,

I was looking for the cheapest option at the time when I ignored your advice  :duh:.  I've already bought a new turntable and salk sound subwoofer which was to be used as part of this system this year.  With a bit of luck I'll get a pair of HT3's and I'm just working out the fine details from Jim.

Regards Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: PMAT on 30 Aug 2013, 04:05 am
Well, well well. You must know what is coming, right ?  :D  Ah-hem, cough cough. The HT3 ah ha moment when the goosebumps rise and the Ampzilla is breathing for you. Then you are gonna have to thank the freaking cats!!!! Hahahahaha dats funny man!
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 12 Sep 2013, 11:41 am
Hi,

Just paid for my new Salk Sound HT3 speakers.  Jim had a spare cabinet in red gum which uses the old Aurum Cantus G2 and I've paid a bit less for this speaker than the version which uses the Raal ribbon tweeter.  Whilst it would have been ideal to have the Raal ribbon tweeter in the new speaker I decided to take the cheaper option.  I'm going to have them finished in rose/red dye and hopefully they will look spectacular.

This has been an unexpected cost and I'm glad that I can save a few dollars but also get the speaker that I always wanted.  The Ampzilla 2000's are rated at 300 watts per channel so they should have enough power to drive them easily.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: martyo on 12 Sep 2013, 01:32 pm
Hi Rod,

I own the 3's with the G2 and my brother has the 2's with the RAAL. The RAAL is sweet and a superior driver to the G2 and I love listening to it at my brothers but I never sit at home being bummed with the G2. What I do notice at home is the superior midrange of the 3's. I prefer the bass of the 3's too but their positioning requirements are more critical.
I'm also driving mine with 300 watts per channel.
I've also seen some really pretty red gum cabinets.

Congrats and happy listening. :thumb:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: bladesmith on 19 Sep 2013, 11:17 pm
I like cats....


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=87205)

they taste like chicken...!
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 1 Oct 2013, 10:11 am
Hi, 

Jim just sent me a photograph of the new speakers.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=87850)

Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: martyo on 1 Oct 2013, 02:43 pm
Nice!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: ArthurDent on 1 Oct 2013, 02:45 pm
Nice Rod. Good to see all has worked out well, if not entirely as desired. Maybe you can get Jim to ship them on one of the America's Cup cats returning to your area and you'll have 'em in no time.  :D
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Vulcan00 on 1 Oct 2013, 03:18 pm
                                             

                                                                  Beautiful
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Austin08 on 1 Oct 2013, 03:26 pm
Nice!!!!!
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 2 Oct 2013, 08:50 am
Hi,

I'm really quite delighted by the finish of these speakers.  Jim had a left over cabinet which used the aurum cants g2 tweeter and he had one spare xover.  The speakers were originally redgum but whilst they looked nice they wouldn't fit with the decor in my room.  Jim suggested dying them and they have come out much better than what I anticipated.

Apparently they are all packed up and ready for shipping to Australia.  These speakers have to be my last pair that I will every buy.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: charmerci on 3 Oct 2013, 12:30 am
Quote from: Rocket on  2 Oct 2013, 08:50 am
These speakers have to be my last pair that I will ever buy.

Cheers Rod

 :lol: Ah, ha, ha, ha!!!!  Famous last words......
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 3 Oct 2013, 09:57 am
Hi,

No, I'm adamant that my statement is true  :duh:.

These are the speakers that I wanted originally when I ordered my HT2's way back in 2008 but I couldn't afford them at the time.  In anticipation of this purchase a couple of years ago I bought  Ampzilla 2000 mono blocks which are rated at 300 watts per channel and should drive these well.

Anyway thanks for your post.

Regards Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 4 Oct 2013, 11:04 am
Hi,

I've really gone overboard and just ordered an eastern electric minimax dac plus and new tubes for my preamplifier and one extra for the new dac.  My perpetual technologies p3a dac is getting long in the tooth and I decided I needed an upgrade and it will be interesting whether I hear any difference with the new dac. 

The tubes in my N.E.W. P3 preamplifier were well over 10 years old but the preamp still sounded great.  I bought the tubes from Jim McShane and they should be here in a week or two.

Wish me luck.

Regards Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 17 Oct 2013, 08:11 pm
Hi Guys,

My speakers get delivered today.  Its taken 2 weeks to get here from the US which is a bit slower than normal and it looks like there were flight delays and a hold up with US Customs.  Luckily the speakers cleared Australian customs in half a day and they are due for delivery tomorrow and I can't wait to hear them.

Its cost about $2000AU including shipping door to door, taxes and customs fees.  This time around I was able to avoid quarantine fees due to Jim's thorough paperwork.  Its still worth having the speakers shipped to Australia because there is no product available in Australia that looks and sounds as good as the Salk Sound speakers.

I'll let you know what I think when they are up and running.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Saturn94 on 18 Oct 2013, 03:19 am
Quote from: Rocket on 17 Oct 2013, 08:11 pm
Hi Guys,

My speakers get delivered today.  Its taken 2 weeks to get here from the US which is a bit slower than normal and it looks like there were flight delays and a hold up with US Customs.  Luckily the speakers cleared Australian customs in half a day and they are due for delivery tomorrow and I can't wait to hear them.

Its cost about $2000AU including shipping door to door, taxes and customs fees.  This time around I was able to avoid quarantine fees due to Jim's thorough paperwork.  Its still worth having the speakers shipped to Australia because there is no product available in Australia that looks and sounds as good as the Salk Sound speakers.

I'll let you know what I think when they are up and running.

Cheers Rod

Very exciting!  Keep us posted. :)
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 18 Oct 2013, 04:59 am
Hi Guys,

The speakers arrived safely today.  It took a little longer than expected because I think there was a delay with US customs and then the qantas flight was rescheduled.  Luckily, it only took half a day to clear customs in Perth and they were available for collection yesterday.

I ended up doing a local deal with DB Schenker and had them shipped from the airport to my home via tail lift for $180 which was an acceptable price.  I had them shipped on Friday.

Okay, bearing in mind that I have fluid behind the ear canal in one of my ears which is causing a bit of imbalance with my hearing at the moment I can hear a definite improvement compared with my previous HT2's (non tl version).  The top end is virtually the same as the lcy tweeter but the midrange is slightly clearer and I can hear more detail/ decay/definition such as hearing a bongo drum which has more decay/definition than the HT2's.  The bass is without doubt deeper and I think there is more definition than before.  I don't feel like I need a subwoofer to augment the bass now. 

I also bought an Eastern Electric Dac Plus recently and also replaced the tubes in my N.E.W P3 tube amplifier (made by Cary Audio in the late 1990's - early 2000's).  All of these changes have created an overall classier sound, it seems that the sound is blacker now when the music is quiet, perhaps this is because the midrange is in a separate chamber than the bass driver?  Definitely an easy improvement over my HT2's.   I can only imagine how good the soundscape 8's sound but to be honest I'm really satisfied with my speakers and I won't be upgrading any time soon. 

Thank you Jim so much for your help.  I appreciate the suggestion on the new cabinets, aurum cantus g2 tweeter and xover that you had left over (glad that it was put to good use).  The speakers also look great and I made sure that I was patient this time when I assembled them.

Btw I was a bit disappointed that Jim's room didn't get more acknowledgement for its sound at RMAF.  There must be a lot of competition in the US!  Clients tastes always vary but I obviously like the house sound of Salk Sound!  These speakers have travelled 18 000 kilometres and are now available for demonstration purposes in Perth, Western Australia.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Austin08 on 18 Oct 2013, 05:33 am
Quote
...Btw I was a bit disappointed that Jim's room didn't get more acknowledgement for its sound at RMAF.  There must be a lot of competition in the US!  Clients tastes always vary but I obviously like the house sound of Salk Sound!  These speakers have travelled 18 000 kilometres and are now available for demonstration purposes in Perth, Western Australia....

Rod,

Congratulation on your upgrade. IMO, Salk is already being well recognized by audiophile world wide. Winning the show is nice but winning customers heart is lifetime achievement award.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: martyo on 18 Oct 2013, 08:52 am
Way to go Rod. Now you can give those Ampzilla's a workout. :thumb:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 18 Oct 2013, 09:51 am
Hi Guys,

Whilst I've only been listening to the speakers for a couple of hours and I have a bung ear at the moment the major improvement seems to be the midrange.  I can hear that the improvements are as follows, classy/refined/transparent midrange, improved dynamics, better definition/decay of instruments, soundstage is wider and taller.  Overall its quite a jump in performance IMO.  Its a pity I couldn't wait to replace the perpetual technologies p3a dac with the Eastern Electric Dac Plus and new tubes in my preamp before listening to the speakers.  It would have given me a guide on the subtle improvements of each component as I installed them.  Its funny that I've replaced every component in my system since 2009 but the N.E.W. P3 preamplifier is still hanging on.  The company went broke in the early 2000's but they did make some really nice affordable gear.  I do have a new tube from Jim Mc Shane which he recommended for the EE dac but I won't bother with replacing it at this stage and I also have some new opamps for the dac which are on the way from the US.

The ampzilla 2000's seem to be powering the speakers quite easily at this stage.  I don't listen at full volume but I do like the sound at moderate levels and they seem to be just idling at the moment. 


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88567)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88568)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88572)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88573)

I was quite impressed that Jim uses pallets to ship the speakers and wasn't aware that he had adopted this practice.  The photos don't do justice to the quality of the veneer.

Regards Rod





Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: robcentola on 18 Oct 2013, 11:23 am
Amazing. So beautiful.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 18 Oct 2013, 11:40 am
Hi,

Its taken me so many years to get my system to this level.  I'm done now because I'm now at the level of diminishing returns.

Regards Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: charmerci on 18 Oct 2013, 03:37 pm
Quote from: Rocket on 18 Oct 2013, 11:40 am


I'm done now because I'm now at the level of diminishing returns.

Regards Rod


Oh no, you're not.


You'll get big improvement with room treatments.


Anyway, I'm glad that you finally have a great system after all those struggles!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Big Red Machine on 18 Oct 2013, 06:51 pm
Thanks for the pics.  It brings a tear to my eye since the HT3 was my first Salk purchase 6 years ago.  It's good you have big amps to drive these.  They are power hungry but the bass is pretty darned good.  You made out pretty darned good with this whole situation it appears.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: DMurphy on 18 Oct 2013, 08:55 pm
Quote from: Rocket on 18 Oct 2013, 04:59 am
Btw I was a bit disappointed that Jim's room didn't get more acknowledgement for its sound at RMAF.  There must be a lot of competition in the US!  Clients tastes always vary but I obviously like the house sound of Salk Sound!  These speakers have travelled 18 000 kilometres and are now available for demonstration purposes in Perth, Western Australia.

Cheers Rod

I think the press coverage of RMAF is still coming in.   This was just posted by the Absolute Sound:

Salk Signature Sound, maker of the popular SongTower, showed an experimental high-end stand-mount speaker with wide frequency response and high sensitivity for its size (91dB). It employs the new Exotic drivers from Seas of Norway, leading to Salk’s name for this new model: Exotica. These drivers are extremely expensive and built to a very high standard. Each high-sensitivity driver is measured and tested before leaving the Seas factory. Driven by some exciting and reasonably priced new electronics from Audio by Van Alstine, the Exotica filled a large room with a huge soundstage and had a transparency that rivaled many more expensive loudspeakers. Although just the raw drivers in a pair Exoticas reportedly costs $3000, the complete loudspeaker is projected to sell for $6000 at retail.

And I believe Stereophile is still posting on rooms.   I know they spent a good bit of time listening to the Exotica's. 
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 18 Oct 2013, 10:53 pm
Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the information on RMAF and I'll keep an eye open for any updates.

Due to my isolation from the rest of Australia I haven't been exposed to every high end speaker around but I have listened to many of the mass market one's such as B & W, Aurum Cantus and I do have a pair of Nurforce S9's which retailed for $6000 in Australia.  There is a local speaker designer who builds  great speakers which use raven BEe Engineering tweeters, cabasse, focal, phl and accuton drivers (they are too expensive and take to long to build though).  The only speaker who's midrange I thought was more transparent was one using accuton drivers but I think the xover and speaker design of the HT3 enables the speaker from top to bottom to sound seamless in comparison.

I had a long listen to the speaker last night and I played with the Solid State and tube options of the Eastern Electric Dac Plus.  I thought using the SS midrange option that it sounded a bit thin but the bass had good definition and using this option the  HT 3 speaker didn't emphasise the bass, midrange or top end at all.  When I used the tube option the midrange was great but it did emphasise it just a little more and the bass seemed just a little bloated and lacked a bit of definition in comparison to the SS input of the EE dac (trade offs once again!).  I might try swapping in the new tube and see how it sounds.

I think in total the speaker has cost me about $7200US to import to Australia which still makes it affordable in comparison to the local competition.  I'm not a rich person by any stretch of the imagination and the only allow myself a couple of luxuries such as my Bach Stradivarius trumpet and my hifi system.  I drive an old 1996 hyundai excel and it does the job for me but it does have a focal speaker system and subwoofer which sounds good.

Anyway whilst its cost me quite a bit to fix my situation I do believe that apart from making minor changes to my system in the future I'm pretty well done (yes I know famous last words).  I would like to comment on the top end and comments I've read over the years about this speakers brightness.  I think this only occurs when using poorer quality components in your system and less than stellar recordings.  This speaker is the same as the HT2 where it ruthlessly reveals the source.

Regards Rod

ps. it sounds like I'm doing a review of the Eastern Electric Dac Plus but I was really trying to give an example of the HT3 speaker rises to the occasion by making it easy to hear different components and options.



Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 19 Oct 2013, 05:42 am
Hi Guys,

I just found out that I now have a perforated ear drum which is causing me some deafness in the left ear.  The doctor stated that with a bit of luck it will heal by itself and I should get most of my hearing back.  I can still hear the improvement with the new speakers but it is a disconcerting having this imbalance issue.

Regards Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: martyo on 19 Oct 2013, 11:24 am
That sucks Rod. I hope the doc is correct and you heal quickly.
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 19 Oct 2013, 12:39 pm
Hi Martyo,

It does suck a little bit but in reality its a minor hiccup and I'm sure my hearing will be okay soon.  I just had a major music session tonight and played some reasonably well recorded rock cd's and the HT3's did test the Ampzilla 2000's quite a bit.  Damn it, the HT3's made the Ampzillas clip quite a bit with loud bass heavy music.  BRM is right they do require quite a bit of power but they do sound of so good and the Ampzilla 2000's do have just enough power to drive them.  I don't think I'd using anything less than 200 watts per channel with these speakers.

With reference to my hearing a lovely lady at work who is 52 years old (like me) and the poor thing is riddled with cancer and in comparison a perforated ear drum is really only a minor inconvenience.  Thanks for Martyo for your comments though.  I now know what I've been missing all these years.  Martyo do you ever consider upgrading to the SS8's?

Regards

Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: WntrMute2 on 8 Dec 2013, 08:46 pm
Boy, I just would have chalked that up to battle scars and gone on with the listening.  IMHO, it is all about the music although I do appreciate good looking gear.  No one but you will say:  man those speakers sound great but they sure are beat up.  I have a dent in my Salks and forget about it as soon as the music starts to play.  But good luck with the upgrade!
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 9 Dec 2013, 11:28 am
Hi,

Your probably right in your comment about not worrying about the damage.  I guess it depends on where you sit on the tree when it comes to this issue.  I don't allow myself many luxuries in my life apart from a gym membership, a professional level trumpet and my hifi gear.  I've worked really hard to set myself up financially and I decided that it was a good excuse to get my dream speakers.  I was lucky to be able to sell the speakers for a fair price considering the level of damage and it helped me to buy the HT3's.  Another consideration is that the aussie dollar is near record levels and it is only going to go down in the next couple of years and I decided that I would buy the last pair of speakers.

Anyway, thanks for your input.  My hearing is getting better and my perforated ear drum is healed and my system now sounds spectacular but as always I'm still trying to find good quality recordings.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: TJHUB on 9 Dec 2013, 02:46 pm
Rod:

First, the HT3's look fantastic.  A friend of mine bought a used pair a while back, and he has them sounding incredible.  Very nice speakers. 

What tube did Jim sell you for the EE DAC?  I'm just curious.  I went through many tubes with my EE DAC, and the tube I thought had the least compromises top to bottom was a Psvane 12AU7.  When testing the SS output, try it with the tube pulled.  It's a very different sound, and for the better for many.  However, the magic comes from discrete opamps in all 4 positions, SS output, and no tube installed. 
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 21 Dec 2013, 08:21 am
Hi,

Thanks for the comments re: my speakers.  I do like the finish of the speaker that Jim suggested for me and it perfectly matches the room decor.  I'm currently using a goldentubes in the tube socket of the EE dac but to be honest  I mainly listen to it with the SS option.  I initially did some opamp rolling and replaced the stock one's with some that were recommended by Doug Schroeder and ordered them with brown dog adapters preinstalled.  I quite liked the sound but I then went all out and bought 4 x dexa discrete opamps and I've had them installed for about 4 weeks now and the  improvement is quite impressive.  I have a redwine audio imod and it sounds nowhere near as good as the EE dac plus.

I'll try removing the tube as my next tweak and I'll listen for any improvements it might bring.  I will say that generally unless it is a clear improvement I always feel that my hearing either isn't that good or by the time I've swapped components I can't really decide whether there is an improvement or not.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: SCompRacer on 21 Dec 2013, 04:13 pm
Hi Rod. Before I built a DAC with discrete balanced output, I had went the Burson HD op amp route with a modded DAC. It was quite an improvement. I'm all SS now.

Rich
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 25 May 2014, 01:23 am
Hi Guys,

Just trying to determine which aurum cantus ribbon tweeter the HT3 speakers use as  I have the older version? I'm going to buy a stock of replacement ribbons for the tweeters. 

I did have a bit of a setback with my system as I blew one of the Ampzilla mono blocks and I had to return it to Wyred 4 Sound for repair.  Its back in my system and working well again.

Cheers Rod
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: DMurphy on 25 May 2014, 02:28 am
Quote from: Rocket on 25 May 2014, 01:23 am
Hi Guys,

Just trying to determine which aurum cantus ribbon tweeter the HT3 speakers use as  I have the older version? I'm going to buy a stock of replacement ribbons for the tweeters. 

I did have a bit of a setback with my system as I blew one of the Ampzilla mono blocks and I had to return it to Wyred 4 Sound for repair.  Its back in my system and working well again.

Cheers Rod

So are you saying you zapped the tweeter?  It's the G-2, but changing the ribbon is very tricky and best left to someone who's done it before, like Jim. 
Title: Re: Damaged speakers - what to do?
Post by: Rocket on 25 May 2014, 05:58 am
Hi Dennis,

No the tweeter is fine.  I'm going to keep the speakers for years and thought it would be best to have some spares.  I read a post on another thread and it looks like someone has torn an aurum cantus ribbon and this triggered my enquiry.  I previously had a pair of speakers that used raven ribbon tweeters and I had to regularly replace the ribbons on them.

Thanks for your help.

Regards Rod