AudioCircle
Industry Circles => NuPrime Audio => Topic started by: RafaPolit on 1 Jun 2017, 03:55 am
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Hey friends!
This should be fairly easy: which do you place on top?
Arguments to have the DAC on top are:
- aesthetics (purely subjective, of course)
- better access to inputs if you are often connecting and disconnecting equipment
- more logical (to me) cable distribution: speaker wires at the bottom, inputs on top
Arguments for the ST on top:
- Heat dissipation is conducted on a free surface without another hot device stacked on top.
So? what is the veredict? How do you guys have them? Please don't answer side by side, as I am not going to have the space for that! :)
I am planning on going the XLR route if that makes any difference!
Thanks,
Rafa
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Put the lightest one on the top with something to create an air gap between them like IsoBlock looking devices. They are available as appliance isolation devices on Ebay.
http://mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/template_isoblocks.php
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Put the lightest one on the top with something to create an air gap between them like IsoBlock looking devices. They are available as appliance isolation devices on Ebay.
http://mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/template_isoblocks.php
Yes there are lots of places to get industrial vibration devices - e.g. - http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200658811_200658811?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Air%20Tools%20%2B%20Compressors%20%3E%20Air%20Compressor%20Accessories&utm_campaign=Klutch&utm_content=49494&gclid=CJKKkrjrm9QCFZA7gQodG2IKsA
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Here's another site - http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/vibrationpads.htm
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I always try to put the hot device on top for the heat to dissipate freely. If the hot device is on the bottom, then get something to stack between so there's an air gap. It doesn't have to be anything fancy; seriously I just use an empty toilet paper roll cut into quarters.
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These devices don't run hot, so not an issue.
I like the look of the control piece on top, but it's your gear.
If you don't put them on a very, very flimsy shelf and listen way, way too loud it doesn't matter.
From a purely functional perspective with all else being equal I'd put the heavier device on top to help weigh both pieces down.
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Thanks!
You never stop to amaze me guys! I was just wondering which to put on top, I was planning on using the devices own feet!
But I should know better by now, you guys go the extra mile.
Now I am concerned, should I NOT stack one on top of the other using their own feet? Is that air gap not enough?
I will have to look at those pads installed, but they are a little to 'heavy' for my minimalistic taste in decoration.
Thanks!
Rafa.
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Thanks!
You never stop to amaze me guys! I was just wondering which to put on top, I was planning on using the devices own feet!
But I should know better by now, you guys go the extra mile.
Now I am concerned, should I NOT stack one on top of the other using their own feet? Is that air gap not enough?
I will have to look at those pads installed, but they are a little to 'heavy' for my minimalistic taste in decoration.
Thanks!
Rafa.
They make those devices without the cork in the middle too so they are shorter and less noticed. I've also used for a gap some of the floor sliders or protectors they use under furniture (carried by places here like Home Depot or Lowe's). There's also stuff like - https://www.amazon.com/Bright-Star-IsoNode-Feet-Small/dp/B003P4JS2Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496326555&sr=8-1&keywords=bright+star+audio
There's also stuff like - http://www.ginkgoaudio.com/product/minicloud/ I use (for years) their Cloud 10 platforms under Blu-Ray players in 3 systems. I also got a whole box of similar industrial vibration devices with rubber in the middle instead of cork. I think it cost me $26 for 48 of them. Not that long ago I got a Lumin U1 music streamer (basically connects to my network where I have my NAS and plays my files. I debated where to put it so that it was close enough to my EMM Labs DAC2X (which is on the middle right in the pic below) so that my cables could reach and I had a place to stick the Lumin's outboard power supply. I ended up putting it on top (on the right below) on top of my Modwright preamp (which also has an umbilical going to its external power supply behind the center channel) and used some felt pads and those under furniture gliders so it didn't look too messy and left a little bit more air gap (there are tubes inside the preamp). There's stuff like - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IsoPuck?product_id=IsoPuck&adpos=1o4&creative=54989966161&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=COL-15ntnNQCFU4bgQodqG4IRA and plenty of other stuff to use - http://www.ebay.com/bhp/audio-isolation-feet
Main System
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=161981)
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Just remember that heat degrades electronic components and ST-10 heat sink is it's top plate.
If you are looking to decouple components from the shelf and each other, look at these, they work for me and are relatively affordable www.vibrapod.com
BTW, you made great choice ST-10/DAC-10. I am busy auditioning ST-10 with DAC-9 that I purchased recently and have only good impressions so far.
Jan A.
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@Phil A
Nice setup!
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Thanks!
You never stop to amaze me guys! I was just wondering which to put on top, I was planning on using the devices own feet!
But I should know better by now, you guys go the extra mile.
Now I am concerned, should I NOT stack one on top of the other using their own feet? Is that air gap not enough?
I will have to look at those pads installed, but they are a little to 'heavy' for my minimalistic taste in decoration.
Thanks!
Rafa.
Hi Rafa,
There are many things to consider when placing your components regarding aesthetics, function and thermal issues.
Most importantly, you need to know that ANY stacking will affect thermal dissipation, but also, that the combo you selected is not likely to ever OVERHEAT.
That said you have the virtual freedom to stack as you see fit. Another option is not stacking at all, and going side by side.
All that said, if you are a little OCD (like many of us) you may want to place and employ means to optimize air flow to and around your components, assuming that a cooler component temperature will extend life, and sound better with warm being good and hot being less good.
To that end, the IDEAL stack would see the warmer component (the STA-10) on top. While the NuPRIME feet are sufficient to allow air flow between the components, it can certainly be EVEN MORE cooling to increase that space. This might be even more important and functional "if" you place the ST-10 on the bottom.
To that end, as many have suggested in the posts above, placing additional "spacers" between the components allows a greater airflow and this cooling effect. I have seen some suggest simple devices like even "hockey pucks".
While I know you do not have access to "Parts Express" there may be a similar online store where you are.
They offer quite a few options for "feet" to place under speakers and components for LOW pricing such as the link below. (with these, you do not use the metal screws, just place the rubber spacers under your components)
https://b2b.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-drfs1-1-3-8-x-1-heavy-duty-rubber-feet-4-pcs--240-712
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They offer quite a few options for "feet" to place under speakers and components for LOW pricing such as the link below. (with these, you do not use the metal screws, just place the rubber spacers under your components)
https://b2b.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-drfs1-1-3-8-x-1-heavy-duty-rubber-feet-4-pcs--240-712 (https://b2b.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-drfs1-1-3-8-x-1-heavy-duty-rubber-feet-4-pcs--240-712)
Your link is to the Commercial Sales section that requires an account login.
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-drfs1-1-3-8-x-1-heavy-duty-rubber-feet-4-pcs--240-712
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As a Canadian, it is both functionally and aesthetically appropriate for me to use hockey pucks to space my components when stacking. I'm not sure what the South American equivalent would be :lol:
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I'm not sure what the South American equivalent would be :lol:
Soccer balls, but a little unwieldy and precarious. ;)
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@Phil A
Nice setup!
+1
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Thanks!
You never stop to amaze me guys! I was just wondering which to put on top, I was planning on using the devices own feet!
But I should know better by now, you guys go the extra mile.
Now I am concerned, should I NOT stack one on top of the other using their own feet? Is that air gap not enough?
I will have to look at those pads installed, but they are a little to 'heavy' for my minimalistic taste in decoration.
Thanks!
Rafa.
Rafa, just wait for the 10 Combo to arrive, set it up with the ST-10 on top and wait and see if the DAC-10 gets to warm. If it does, just go to LHenriques, or any other similar hardware store and get the best feet available. I am sure you will have 2 or 3 to choose from.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163227)
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You guys make me laugh! Indeed, soccer balls would be the replacement, but, as noted, they will not be easy to use as separators! LOL!
PhilA, really nice setup, and you have manage it beautifully. Looks nicely integrated!
Same goes for in1unison, you have managed to compliment the silver color nicely with those shelves.
John, very detailed info, thanks!
I'm in a bit of pickle:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=163244)
As you can see, my shelf is already quite high. I will be replacing the huge AVR once the NuPrimes arrive. But I would prefer it not to go too high, so I'll look into your suggestions, but this nice higher shelves are probably not going to work for me.
Also, I have the speakers right against the big wooden cabinet. As I read it you also put the shelf speakers on isolators? for sure my setup is sending vibrations into the wood and 'changing' the resonance body. It does make sense to isolate them somehow.
I'll look into feet options, but I'm not overly optimistic.
Thanks again,
Rafa.
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Rafa
For the speakers look into Isoacoustics. Generally sold in this country at stores like Guitar Center and Sweetwater. Probably a source in your country too.
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@ Rafa
"shelves" are 10mm (2/5") marble cutting boards cheaply bought at a kitchen assessory shop. For speaker isolators you can use those "furniture sliders" made from PTFE coated natural rubber. They look nice, come in various sizes and cost next to nothing. Most importantly they can noticably improve sound. Best is to experiment, without spending lots of money, and see what works for you.
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I am amazed by the passionate reply to a single question. Thanks for the enthusiasm.
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Indeed a lot of help and enthusiasm! Thanks friends!
Ok, so... PhilA had also recommended those teflon furniture sliders that in1unison recommends. Those may (I must emphasize 'may' as I haven't found them yet) be available locally. One quick question regarding those: will they make the speakers 'dance' on top of the table being prone to falling?
Have you ever been to a party where enthusiastic young boys put speakers on high tables to get more sound only to have the speaker fall to the ground after beeing vibrating for a few hours? LOL! I am not going to be playing that loud, but we have a young kid in the house who often comes jumping into the room. Will these feet make the speakers 'float' on top of the table and be prone to easily moving like those Curling Pucks trying to reach their mark? :)
I'm searching locally, very little luck. I can't even find the local name for rubber isolators, the closest thing is acoustic foam for wall sound conditioning.
Thanks again,
Rafa.
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Rafa
For the speakers look into Isoacoustics. Generally sold in this country at stores like Guitar Center and Sweetwater. Probably a source in your country too.
+1 I have the Isoacoustics and they do their job.
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@Phil A
Nice setup!
Thanks so much
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Indeed a lot of help and enthusiasm! Thanks friends!
Ok, so... PhilA had also recommended those teflon furniture sliders that in1unison recommends. Those may (I must emphasize 'may' as I haven't found them yet) be available locally. One quick question regarding those: will they make the speakers 'dance' on top of the table being prone to falling?
Have you ever been to a party where enthusiastic young boys put speakers on high tables to get more sound only to have the speaker fall to the ground after beeing vibrating for a few hours? LOL! I am not going to be playing that loud, but we have a young kid in the house who often comes jumping into the room. Will these feet make the speakers 'float' on top of the table and be prone to easily moving like those Curling Pucks trying to reach their mark? :)
I'm searching locally, very little luck. I can't even find the local name for rubber isolators, the closest thing is acoustic foam for wall sound conditioning.
Thanks again,
Rafa.
Rafa - try a hardware store. Here in the US we have Home Depot and Lowe's. They may have a variety of products that may appeal to you. Stuff that looks like - http://www.target.com/p/magic-felt-value-pack-132-pk/-/A-11154060?lnk=rec|adaptpdph3|viewed_bought|adaptpdph3|11154060|4 or
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3674845&KPID=998141&cid=CAPLA:G:Shopping_-_Floor_Care&pla=pla_998141&k_clickid=a9fe1454-c0ef-4c99-82a6-b0d76963e0f2
It would be gentle on each piece of equipment and provide a drop more space between components and not make it look messy. You can use a combo as the felt pads are not thick (I never take the paper covering the sticky side off). That's a similar approach to what I did between my music server and preamp (and you can see the pic)
PS - I have to compliment your website. Your photos are beautiful. If I did any sort of artwork (everyone has different talents), it would belong on the fridge with a magnet holding it up :lol:
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One option for stacking ...
I so happened to have laying around an Isoacoustics speaker stand for speakers I no longer used... I did not choose to stack my pre and amp, but could have. Here is a picture of what the stand can accomplish for giving space and air between the stacked units. I just chose not to stack because I had the shelf space, but wanted the amp sitting higher to guarantee the best ventilation.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=164322)
A near perfect fit for the St-10 and DAC 10 combination could be this option... Its a subwoofer stand.
(http://geartunes.s3.amazonaws.com/gear/images/20130512_MG_0112_01_990x660.jpg)
IsoAcoustic stands give both vibration isolation and ventilation in one piece.
This model (ISO-L8R200Sub) measures 7.87 inches, by just under 10 inches.
For price you can check here
https://www.amazon.com/IsoAcoustics-ISO-L8R200-Sub-Large-Single/dp/B00F3JJ9DM (https://www.amazon.com/IsoAcoustics-ISO-L8R200-Sub-Large-Single/dp/B00F3JJ9DM)
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On an added note....
The NuPrime has its own fixed isolation feet beneath the equipment. Not sure how the IsoAcoustics would be a match in that case.
The smaller speaker stand I used with my amp had the stand's isolation cups rest just inside the amp's feet.
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Thanks for the suggestions once more. For the time being, I'm keeping them stacked with their own isolation legs. I really hope its enough space. Where we live temperatures and not that high, so I'm hopping that the half-inch clearance of the ST-10 is enough, as the DAC-10 is usually not that hot.
If I detect heating issues, I may test into other options (or even side-by-side scenario)
Thanks again,
Rafa.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=179165)
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Lovely! I don't have the ludjury of such an area, but it certainly looks great.
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Hello Rafa Polit,
I have your contribution and the photos
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=150549.msg1616180#msg1616180
seen. With the arrangement of the components one could rearrange the priorities.
The distance of the electronics to the speakers is very oriented to the right (very close to the right speaker)
My experience has shown that the stereo triangle and the arrangement of the electronics plays a role in the reproduction and the auditory impressions.
My personal feeling would tend in your arrangement of the devices rather to a symmetrical lineup. I would place the NuPrimes next to each other and in the middle between the speakers.
It would be worth a try, the combination is not that costly.
I've been following your reports for a while, and I love the NuPrime electronics.
Greetings from Germany (With translator)